Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[marko kok prong]

Op what is your hang up with "The Brits' as you call them?

[Sandman77]

No I never kidding I always tell the trues that I see with my own eyes!

[David48]

No I never kidding I always tell the trues that I see with my own eyes!

Oh Sandy ... you are my likeable mad uncle who lives overseas.

God bless your little cotton socks ...

('tis a compliment ... trust me)

[David48]

Op what is your hang up with "The Brits' as you call them?

May I ask impolitely ... are you a Soap Dodger?

No direct offence intended ... just a wee bit of Colonial banter ...

[CharlieH]

No I never kidding I always tell the trues that I see with my own eyes!

Even if the eyes are influenced heavily by drink or medication.

[marko kok prong]

Op what is your hang up with "The Brits' as you call them?

May I ask impolitely ... are you a Soap Dodger?

No direct offence intended ... just a wee bit of Colonial banter ...

Yes dry as a pommie's towel,but i did live in your fair country for 15 years,and it is possibly the best country in the world,apart from the convict aussies of course.

[Emster23]

I find it ironic and funny that one railing against cultural imperialism would use a cultural technique ("Tromp loy") to illustrate his point!

I myself like this way of looking at things:

'Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests. But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.' -Buddha

Sounds like western values to me. Oh, I am a bodhisattva too, in case you were wondering.

[Thai at Heart]

I find it ironic and funny that one railing against cultural imperialism would use a cultural technique ("Tromp loy") to illustrate his point!

I myself like this way of looking at things:

'Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests. But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.' -Buddha

Sounds like western values to me. Oh, I am a bodhisattva too, in case you were wondering.

Oh damn you and your logical truth. So case closed. Even Buddha said its OK to learn from falangs. Hooray for logic and learning.

[thailiketoo]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

[Thai at Heart]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

I might not be around to answer if I've electrocuted myself. I am not talking about preaching to the world, but at least if I am paying for the work, I expect it to my standard for a fair price.

Or is that unfair too? Indian and Pakistan appear to have quite a few ups and downs since the Brits left. Not sure what that has to do with sharing experience and knowledge. Surely it would be even more patronising to sit back and watch the people flounder around reinvineting the wheel like babies learning how to use lego bricks.

I myself, don't sweat it too much. I gave up wondering why a long time ago. Its just because.

The world is full of why's , it' s just Thailand has a lot more. I did sleep a lit better though knowing my kids weren't likely to fry themselves with the electrics though.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[OxfordWill]

More specifically this is known as ethnocentrism.

[thailiketoo]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

I might not be around to answer if I've electrocuted myself. I am not talking about preaching to the world, but at least if I am paying for the work, I expect it to my standard for a fair price.

Or is that unfair too? Indian and Pakistan appear to have quite a few ups and downs since the Brits left. Not sure what that has to do with sharing experience and knowledge. Surely it would be even more patronising to sit back and watch the people flounder around reinvineting the wheel like babies learning how to use lego bricks.

I myself, don't sweat it too much. I gave up wondering why a long time ago. Its just because.

The world is full of why's , it' s just Thailand has a lot more. I did sleep a lit better though knowing my kids weren't likely to fry themselves with the electrics though.

I just built a new house. To imply that there are no Thai electricians that can ground (earth) power is nonsense. There are incompetent and competent tradesmen the world over.

Deaths, Injuries and Fires 1. Low voltage electrocutions and fatal electrical burns in GB from low voltage electricity supplies (2010 data)(i)

• Total: 28
• Work related electrocutions: six
• Home or leisure electrocutions: 22

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

[David48]

More specifically this is known as ethnocentrism.

I had to look up that word ...

[Thai at Heart]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

I might not be around to answer if I've electrocuted myself. I am not talking about preaching to the world, but at least if I am paying for the work, I expect it to my standard for a fair price.

Or is that unfair too? Indian and Pakistan appear to have quite a few ups and downs since the Brits left. Not sure what that has to do with sharing experience and knowledge. Surely it would be even more patronising to sit back and watch the people flounder around reinvineting the wheel like babies learning how to use lego bricks.

I myself, don't sweat it too much. I gave up wondering why a long time ago. Its just because.

The world is full of why's , it' s just Thailand has a lot more. I did sleep a lit better though knowing my kids weren't likely to fry themselves with the electrics though.

I just built a new house. To imply that there are no Thai electricians that can ground (earth) power is nonsense. There are incompetent and competent tradesmen the world over.

Deaths, Injuries and Fires 1. Low voltage electrocutions and fatal electrical burns in GB from low voltage electricity supplies (2010 data)(i)

• Total: 28
• Work related electrocutions: six
• Home or leisure electrocutions: 22

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

Did I say none?

I said, if you read, some or sometimes. Calm down there matey. Act a bit more Thai and jai yen yen. But u edited that bit out of my post to selectively grab the bit u liked the most.

If u believe every single sparky in Thailand is highly qulaifed, that's up to you. There are dodgy blokes everywhere, its just a matter of odds and logic.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[thailiketoo]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

I might not be around to answer if I've electrocuted myself. I am not talking about preaching to the world, but at least if I am paying for the work, I expect it to my standard for a fair price.

Or is that unfair too? Indian and Pakistan appear to have quite a few ups and downs since the Brits left. Not sure what that has to do with sharing experience and knowledge. Surely it would be even more patronising to sit back and watch the people flounder around reinvineting the wheel like babies learning how to use lego bricks.

I myself, don't sweat it too much. I gave up wondering why a long time ago. Its just because.

The world is full of why's , it' s just Thailand has a lot more. I did sleep a lit better though knowing my kids weren't likely to fry themselves with the electrics though.

You said I edited the above post. So here it is in total. You wrote, "I might not be around to answer if I've electrocuted myself. I am not talking about preaching to the world, but at least if I am paying for the work, I expect it to my standard for a fair price."

I think you implied that Thai electricians are not qualified. I would say that many odd job people are allowed to do electrical work in Thailand. You get what you pay for. Perhaps we are in agreement.

[nidieunimaitre]

I find it ironic and funny that one railing against cultural imperialism would use a cultural technique ("Tromp loy") to illustrate his point!

I myself like this way of looking at things:

'Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests. But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.' -Buddha

Sounds like western values to me. Oh, I am a bodhisattva too, in case you were wondering.

Buddha may have read this in a pamphlet of Godwin, Bakoenin or Kropotkin.

[rijb]

Not so easy, but so necessary to UNlearn, like you say. Actually, many posts I read indicate Westerners can not and do not want to unlearn but to make Thailand over into their crappy place they left. I say Why do that?

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

[ATF]

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

If they want your advice they will ask. Until then keep your colonial mouth shut. Do you think India and Pakistan have done a good job since the Brits left? Do they want you back?

No they just followed the Brits back to the UK. The two major problems currently under review in India are how to stop 600 million Indians defecating in the streets and gang rape murders. Pakistan's idea of justice is a stoning to death on the steps of a courthouse. I agree that Thai matters are of no concern to foreigners but there are many countries who could definitely benefit from it. This is a rhetorical question by the way I don't have the time to go into another diatribe.

[thailiketoo]

Not so easy, but so necessary to UNlearn, like you say. Actually, many posts I read indicate Westerners can not and do not want to unlearn but to make Thailand over into their crappy place they left. I say Why do that?

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

Edited June 13, 2014 by thailiketoo

[David48]

^^ CMK ... I expected better of you.

[wwest5829]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I taught by throwing in various cross cultural perspectives to my American students. I say this only to let you know I think I am culturally sensitive. However, now we can enter the philosophical aspect that you broach. While I consider myself more a situation ethic type of individual, there are those that lean toward the idea that there exist absolute or universal truths. Are there indeed some "right or better ways of doing things" universally? Hmm, an example of having 4 on a motorbike has been given. There are, of course many more examples, wearing a motorcycle helmet, for example. Both are tied with proven safety concerns to be of vital importance to people's health and wellbeing. Aside from concern for another human beings health, there are considerations that injuries drive up medical costs for all. Damn, there I go thinking too much again!

[wwest5829]

No I never kidding I always tell the trues that I see with my own eyes!

How does the quote go, " don't believe what you read and only half of what you see"? I remind you that for eons, mankind looked to the heavens and saw the sun revolving around the earth. Seeings believing, ain't it?

[Emster23]

Everybody knows it was that dang Brit Newton (English ethnocentrist!) invented gravity and laws of motion. If he hadn't done that and forced it on the rest of the world, no one would need a helmet, crashes wouldn't happen (which law was that again?), and people wouldn't suicide off balconeys! Don't get me started on the likes of Faraday and that imperialist crowd!

[thailiketoo]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I taught by throwing in various cross cultural perspectives to my American students. I say this only to let you know I think I am culturally sensitive. However, now we can enter the philosophical aspect that you broach. While I consider myself more a situation ethic type of individual, there are those that lean toward the idea that there exist absolute or universal truths. Are there indeed some "right or better ways of doing things" universally? Hmm, an example of having 4 on a motorbike has been given. There are, of course many more examples, wearing a motorcycle helmet, for example. Both are tied with proven safety concerns to be of vital importance to people's health and wellbeing. Aside from concern for another human beings health, there are considerations that injuries drive up medical costs for all. Damn, there I go thinking too much again!

By the early 1970s, virtually all states had laws requiring all motorcyclists to wear helmets. But Illinois repealed its law in 1970 and, by 1980, most states had abandoned or substantially limited theirs -- usually restricting coverage to riders younger than 18.

In Florida, those 21 yrs. and older may ride without helmets only if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Louisiana's law allows riders 18 yrs. and older to ride without helmets if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Texas exempts riders 21 yrs. or older if they either 1) can show proof of successfully completing a motorcycle operator training and safety course or 2) can show proof of having a medical insurance policy.

http://www.gadgetjq.com/helmet_laws.htm

[GuestHouse]

The OP is Pishing into the wind, or to be more polite, is doing a great impression of King Canute.

The flow of cultural ideas was not invented when foreigners started to move to Thailand, its been going on throughout human history.

Those hated 'Western Values'are not 'Western' at all, they come from all points on the compass and can be traced in the literature and recorded history of societies across the globe.

I'd advise the OP and others who feel the way he does, to save your energy and find a cause you might have some success with - You are not going to prevent the flow of cultural ideas. Worse still, you've inevitably played your own part - don't go into more self loathing over this, but simply by coming to Thailand you brought cultural contamination with you. Without the slightest effort you spread it in your day to day interactions with Thai people.

So save your energy and if you can't find a noble cause in which you might have some success, how about settling for quiet contemplation on why it is the cultural contamination of the place of women in society is always at the centre of discussion when this topic comes up?

Don't fight the tide. Swim with the flow.

[islandguy]

The OP's point is a good one, although rather sanctimoniously phrased, IMO. I have certainly learned more by paying attention to the Thai point of view than they have learned from me. However, the high number of people crippled and the many people killed by preventable 'accidents' is a good reason to think that some Thai ways would be better changed. I think having compassion for others' suffering is a good reason for Buddhists to be open to change some culturally specific practices and ways of thinking here in Thailand, as in so many other countries. Does every group have to learn by suffering or can some things change because of the mistakes other cultures have already made that caused those cultures to make changes?

[Smurkster]

the example of the helmet less motorcycle riders and an idea to set it right isn't a great example of "Cultural Imperialism" as someone mentioned, people utilizing common sense, foresight and proactivity (qualities that sadly, are often lacking in LOS) would see this situation as not safe, thus might feel the need to help people avoid it.....yes wearing helmets on the bike IS a better way to go than not

[thailiketoo]

the example of the helmet less motorcycle riders and an idea to set it right isn't a great example of "Cultural Imperialism" as someone mentioned, people utilizing common sense, foresight and proactivity (qualities that sadly, are often lacking in LOS) would see this situation as not safe, thus might feel the need to help people avoid it.....yes wearing helmets on the bike IS a better way to go than not

So would you go to the USA and tell the bikers in Texas to put on a helmet?

[Smurkster]

I personally wouldn't tell anyone anywhere that they need to wear a helmet... they can do whatever they want (me personally, I cannot fathom why people would get on a motorbike and not wear a helmet, just like not wearing a seatbelt in a car, when it is so easy, you know that ounce of prevention saying)

but if someone else did (here in Thailand) I wouldn't necessarily consider that cultural imperialism, maybe just naiveté that anyone would care to even listen let alone change their behavior

Edited June 13, 2014 by Smurkster

[thailiketoo]

I personally wouldn't tell anyone anywhere that they need to wear a helmet... they can do whatever they want (me personally, I cannot fathom why people would get on a motorbike and not wear a helmet, just like not wearing a seatbelt in a car, when it is so easy, you know that ounce of prevention saying)

but if someone else did (here in Thailand) I wouldn't necessarily consider that cultural imperialism, maybe just naiveté that anyone would care to even listen let alone change their behavior

You wrote, "people utilizing common sense, foresight and proactivity (qualities that sadly, are often lacking in LOS)"

My point was us Americans don't think that is correct. Not wearing helmets is our constitutional right.

So I don't think it is often lacking in Thailand. I think it is just your sissyfied cultural imperialism.