Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[tingtongteesood]

The OP's example is not 'cultural imperialism', it is common bloody sense ! 4 on a motorbike is stupidly dangerous.

[Frank James]

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

So, you're a "bodhisattva", or "enlightened one", trying to share your enlightened wisdom with us? Pearls before swine? Everything I've ever read or heard about "enlightenment" or "cosmic consciousness" concludes that the second one thinks he "gets it", that is a sure sign he doesn't get it, and never had it. More maya. Such a one doesn't go around making pompous pronouncements about what others should do or think. Such a one makes no claims for himself. Such a one lives in such a way that his very presence inspires others to live or think differently, without having to say much of anything. Or so I've heard.

[thailiketoo]

The OP's example is not 'cultural imperialism', it is common bloody sense ! 4 on a motorbike is stupidly dangerous.

Until you know the urgency of the trip.

[MartinL]

How about the cultural imperialism that says that all schoolchildren in Thailand will learn in the Central Thai language, what ever language they might speak at home. At my wife's school the kids speak Lao/Isaan Thai by choice but Central Thai in the classroom. Perhaps the same applies to other minority languages in Thailand. It's those nasty western cultural values coming to the fore again, isn't it!

[Dap]

Well, what u are asking is for the westerner to park his brain at immigration.

What a great idea! I think you are on to something.

But what to do when Thais appear to permenanatly misplace theirs.

This is a little bit like the discussions on hear about electrical wiring. There are rules and regs the world over about how to install this stuff safely, and often Thais don't do it.

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Are people seriously saying its imperialism to advise or even insist on the highest safety because the option is to live or die? To know their is a better way and be told to shut up denies a basic human trait. We are in a country where the science minister pushes water in an open river ladies and gentlemen.

I can't make up for the apparent lack of knowledge here sometimes and likewise, I have enjoyed learning some of the Thai tricks of the trade.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

Well said T@H

[Dap]

the example of the helmet less motorcycle riders and an idea to set it right isn't a great example of "Cultural Imperialism" as someone mentioned, people utilizing common sense, foresight and proactivity (qualities that sadly, are often lacking in LOS) would see this situation as not safe, thus might feel the need to help people avoid it.....yes wearing helmets on the bike IS a better way to go than not

So would you go to the USA and tell the bikers in Texas to put on a helmet?

Neveeeeeer

[rijb]

Not so easy, but so necessary to UNlearn, like you say. Actually, many posts I read indicate Westerners can not and do not want to unlearn but to make Thailand over into their crappy place they left. I say Why do that?

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

You're probably too thick to understand this. But, what the hell.

The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists. - old asian proverb

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yes in several ways. The photo brings up the injection of the modern into the ancient, the idea that Buddha has us in his hands, that the Western invention airplane is tiny in significance to Buddhism, that photos are fun "trump loy" Anglicized from French term, and that the photo will cause people to think and even ask questions.

Is your avatar related to the topic ?

Photoshop is a product of an imperial culture. Glad you recognize its usefulness.

[claffey]

There are some of western cultures that Thailand should borrow including equality, human rights and rational thinking. Also, Thai women should not be so submissive to their man. I think those would benefit Thailand a great deal. It is quite alright to state opinion isn't it?

Western cultures are hypocritical about Human rights. American Drone attacks in Pakistan and elsewhere, Invasion of Iraq but allowing Syria to implode etc.The list goes on. Asia doesn't need to look to the West all the time and it doesn't...Western arrogance and feelings of superiority are rife on this forum and in Westerner's mindsets in general..

[fredKroket]

To me it appears that many Thai people agree with what most westerners complain about, certainly Gen. Prayuth is making some huge changes in which the country is being run, the latest being no double standards with regards to the law and it's enforcement. How many times have you read on here 'money talks, people walk'? There are right and wrong ways to do everything and I doubt if Thailand wants to be seen as an inferior, incapable and incompetent neighbour when the ASEAN community comes into effect next year.

[claffey]

I even 'liked' some of his posts assuming that this one was a joke!! It seems He's moved beyond cultural imperialism and become a self proclaimed demi God!! This thread had potential too...

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Great ... one less member I have to take seriously now.

Bugger ... I thought he was onto something.

He's not onto something ... he's into himself ...

Edited for chronological accurateness

[thailiketoo]

To me it appears that many Thai people agree with what most westerners complain about, certainly Gen. Prayuth is making some huge changes in which the country is being run, the latest being no double standards with regards to the law and it's enforcement. How many times have you read on here 'money talks, people walk'? There are right and wrong ways to do everything and I doubt if Thailand wants to be seen as an inferior, incapable and incompetent neighbour when the ASEAN community comes into effect next year.

You do know that Cambodia, Burma, Laos and Vietnam are members of ASEAN?

[CharlesHH]

More examples of what I am talking about. White Europeans came to N. America and taught the locals how to shoot guns, how to get smallpox from usa gift blankets, and now how to live in semi-concentration camps as their land is despoiled and polluted permanently. Red Chinese went to Tibet and taught the local monks how to get shot when marching for liberation, how to hide their photo of HH the Dalai Lama or be beaten and jailed, and how to destroy over 6000 of their own monasteries with their bare hands.

History will report a vast number of ways stronger, more arrogant folks have forced their "new and better" ideas on the locals who were doing just fine without the new arrivals. Heck, you have to know how much the Moabites welcomed King David who arrived and taught them the talent of the beheading of the locals. So many improvements, so little time.

Well, what u are asking is for the westerner to park his brain at immigration.

What a great idea! I think you are on to something.

But what to do when Thais appear to permenanatly misplace theirs.

This is a little bit like the discussions on hear about electrical wiring. There are rules and regs the world over about how to install this stuff safely, and often Thais don't do it.

All was invented in the west from bloody Faraday onwards. Fuses, ELBs, earthing, three pin, two pin.

Are people seriously saying its imperialism to advise or even insist on the highest safety because the option is to live or die? To know their is a better way and be told to shut I denies a basic human trait.

I can't make up for the apparent lack of knowledge here sometimes and likewise, I have enjoyed learning some of the Thai tricks of the trade.

Where would Thailand be without learning from the outside. Still waiting for the round wheel? Where would man be if we.didn't learn from each other?

[ATF]

the IMPOSITION of Western laws is the maximum of cultural imperialism. Brits were masters of that.

The imposition of Western Laws is different from Cultural Imperialism. CI is the imposition of different customs and traditions and values such as Christian values and holidays. Valentine's Day, Gift giving on birthdays etc.

Laws are necessary for effective and fair trade. Trade cannot exist without laws and regulations governing banking and trade. These are international norms. The G7 countries are not allowed to trade with countries that don't abide by basic human rights and trade and banking regulations. This has nothing to do with culture unless you believe child or slave labor should be a part of culture.

If ten Thais want to ride a motorbike with no helmets that's up to them. Thailand gives them that choice and I would not be the one to take it away from them but I would explain to them in Thai why it wasn't such a good idea.

[rijb]

Maybe they already know. Maybe they don't care.

[thailiketoo]

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

You're probably too thick to understand this. But, what the hell.

The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists. - old asian proverb

I was here in 1968. Thailand is now completely Westernized in comparison to that era. Ask anyone who was here then. Sorry you were not here to see the real Thailand. Thais are a simplistic. basic people; easy to change and easy to influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

Thai people should not appear at public gatherings, in public places, or in city limits without being appropriately dressed. Inappropriate dress includes wearing only underpants, wearing no shirt, or wearing a wraparound cloth.""Appropriate dress for Thai people consists of:

1. "Uniforms, as position and opportunity permits;
2. "Polite international-style attire;
3. "Polite traditional attire

"Thai people should carry out their normal personal activities as follows:

1. "Eat meals at set times, no more than four daily;
2. "Sleep approximately 6-8 hours."

Thais were not into nationalism till Phibun made it a priority. It would be just as easy to reverse his policies they have only been around since the 1930's.

[rijb]

I was here too. You know what they say about assumptions...

[wwest5829]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I taught by throwing in various cross cultural perspectives to my American students. I say this only to let you know I think I am culturally sensitive. However, now we can enter the philosophical aspect that you broach. While I consider myself more a situation ethic type of individual, there are those that lean toward the idea that there exist absolute or universal truths. Are there indeed some "right or better ways of doing things" universally? Hmm, an example of having 4 on a motorbike has been given. There are, of course many more examples, wearing a motorcycle helmet, for example. Both are tied with proven safety concerns to be of vital importance to people's health and wellbeing. Aside from concern for another human beings health, there are considerations that injuries drive up medical costs for all. Damn, there I go thinking too much again!

By the early 1970s, virtually all states had laws requiring all motorcyclists to wear helmets. But Illinois repealed its law in 1970 and, by 1980, most states had abandoned or substantially limited theirs -- usually restricting coverage to riders younger than 18.

In Florida, those 21 yrs. and older may ride without helmets only if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Louisiana's law allows riders 18 yrs. and older to ride without helmets if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Texas exempts riders 21 yrs. or older if they either 1) can show proof of successfully completing a motorcycle operator training and safety course or 2) can show proof of having a medical insurance policy.

http://www.gadgetjq.com/helmet_laws.htm

I apologize for not making my point clear. Let's try this. If my culture says females should not undergo genital mutilation, is it cultural imperialism to tell other cultures that they can not do this. And if it is cultural imperialism, are there not cases where another culture can demand an end to this, genocide, promoting vaccination, education, etc.?

Edited June 13, 2014 by wwest5829

[nidieunimaitre]

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

So, you're a "bodhisattva", or "enlightened one", trying to share your enlightened wisdom with us? Pearls before swine? Everything I've ever read or heard about "enlightenment" or "cosmic consciousness" concludes that the second one thinks he "gets it", that is a sure sign he doesn't get it, and never had it. More maya. Such a one doesn't go around making pompous pronouncements about what others should do or think. Such a one makes no claims for himself. Such a one lives in such a way that his very presence inspires others to live or think differently, without having to say much of anything. Or so I've heard.

Oh my god!

I read the OP, and thought bodhisattva meant some sort of sect or something.

But no, the OP thinks he is ENLIGHTENED.

The OP is lucky that apparently there are no TV forum rules against blasphemy.

Another one for my ignore list.

[HeavyDrinker]

Oh my god!

I read the OP, and thought bodhisattva meant some sort of sect or something.

But no, the OP thinks he is ENLIGHTENED.

The OP is lucky that apparently there are no TV forum rules against blasphemy.

Another one for my ignore list.

Too enlightened to return properly to this thread (bar one very spurious reply) he has started apparently and reply to some of the early direct points made to him.

I think he just wanted to make some moral standpoint and show how far more enlightened he is compared to we plebs. Shame his "enlightenment" doesn't include common good manners unless his "enlightenment" isn't as enlightening as he likes to think it is....

Edited June 13, 2014 by HeavyDrinker

[nidieunimaitre]

Some posters seem to think that all cultures are equivalent in every way.

Of course it is tricky to compare, as one is conditioned by one's own culture.

But can the believers in cultural relatiivity please answer:

Is the European culture of the year 2014 equivalent to the European culture of the year 500?

[thailiketoo]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I taught by throwing in various cross cultural perspectives to my American students. I say this only to let you know I think I am culturally sensitive. However, now we can enter the philosophical aspect that you broach. While I consider myself more a situation ethic type of individual, there are those that lean toward the idea that there exist absolute or universal truths. Are there indeed some "right or better ways of doing things" universally? Hmm, an example of having 4 on a motorbike has been given. There are, of course many more examples, wearing a motorcycle helmet, for example. Both are tied with proven safety concerns to be of vital importance to people's health and wellbeing. Aside from concern for another human beings health, there are considerations that injuries drive up medical costs for all. Damn, there I go thinking too much again!

By the early 1970s, virtually all states had laws requiring all motorcyclists to wear helmets. But Illinois repealed its law in 1970 and, by 1980, most states had abandoned or substantially limited theirs -- usually restricting coverage to riders younger than 18.

In Florida, those 21 yrs. and older may ride without helmets only if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Louisiana's law allows riders 18 yrs. and older to ride without helmets if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Texas exempts riders 21 yrs. or older if they either 1) can show proof of successfully completing a motorcycle operator training and safety course or 2) can show proof of having a medical insurance policy.

http://www.gadgetjq.com/helmet_laws.htm

I apologize for not making my point clear. Let's try this. If my culture says females should not undergo genital mutilation, is it cultural imperialism to tell other cultures that they can not do this. And if it is cultural imperialism, are there not cases where another culture can demand an end to this, genocide, promoting vaccination, education, etc.?

It's my understanding that there is a hill tribe that doesn't bath and kills twins. The Thai government is endeavoring to alter these behaviors. I would feel the same way. However I would not tell a hill tribe person how to live any more than I would tell a Texas biker. In some countries it is legal for doctors to kill sick people and in other countries they have to try and keep them alive. I think it is up to every country to make it's own decisions.

[thailiketoo]

I was here too. You know what they say about assumptions...

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

[ggt]

seeing 4 on a motorbike!

This was not a good example...4 unhelmet riders...2 of which are usually children...does pose a problem in ANY society...an accident just waiting to happen...a correction of this habit...would save many lives...and broken limbs...a no brainer...this is not Cultural Imperialism...just plain common sense...which seems to be lacking by some posters...

[Thai at Heart]

Some posters seem to think that all cultures are equivalent in every way.

Of course it is tricky to compare, as one is conditioned by one's own culture.

But can the believers in cultural relatiivity please answer:

Is the European culture of the year 2014 equivalent to the European culture of the year 500?

I sincerely hope not

[thailiketoo]

seeing 4 on a motorbike!

This was not a good example...4 unhelmet riders...2 of which are usually children...does pose a problem in ANY society...an accident just waiting to happen...a correction of this habit...would save many lives...and broken limbs...a no brainer...this is not Cultural Imperialism...just plain common sense...which seems to be lacking by some posters...

Many places in many countries including the USA not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle is not illegal.

Common knowledge seems to be lacking on your part. I would suggest that without common knowledge that you skip the common sense for a while.

Edited June 13, 2014 by thailiketoo

[nidieunimaitre]

QUOTE from Thailiketoo:

"I think it is up to every country to make it's own decisions"

Thailiketoo believes in countries = governments

Others believe in people = individuals

[thailiketoo]

QUOTE from Thailiketoo:

"I think it is up to every country to make it's own decisions"

Thailiketoo believes in countries = governments

Others believe in people = individuals

Can Thai people vote for Scottish Independence?

Can Irish people vote for Irish Independence?

If the people of the Crimea what to leave their current country and join another can they?

Can Mexican people come to America with no visa?

Can I legally get married at 14 years of age in the USA?

Edited June 13, 2014 by thailiketoo

[rijb]

I was here too. You know what they say about assumptions...

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

[thailiketoo]

I was here too. You know what they say about assumptions...

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame."

Thais eating habits, weight, average education, dress, and standard of beauty has measurably changed since 1968.

The youth of Thailand have switch from being wannabe USA's to wannabe Kpop ers.

If you have not noticed the radical changes in Thailand since the 1960's you must be blind.