Let us understand Cultural Imperialism

[nidieunimaitre]

QUOTE from Thailiketoo:

"I think it is up to every country to make it's own decisions"

Thailiketoo believes in countries = governments

Others believe in people = individuals

Can Thai people vote for Scottish Independence?

Can Irish people vote for Irish Independence?

If the people of the Crimea what to leave their current country and join another can they?

Can Mexican people come to America with no visa?

Can I legally get married at 14 years of age in the USA?

I do not understand the relation between my post and your questions.

But as a token of good faith I will answer your first question.

"Can Thai people vote for Scottish independence?"

Answer: No they cannot. Since they cannot vote for anything, not even for their own parliament.

Now would you please be so kind as to answer my question about cultural relativity, post #81.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

Now David... I know what you're getting at, but "American" has long been in the international lexicon to mean someone from the USA. No other peoples from any country in N. or S. America are routinely called Americans. If you say American, people will know you mean someone from the USA.

"From the USA" doesn't work in a sentence when you need a noun such as Frenchman, Scot, Brit, Thai, etc. For those from the USA, only American fills that need.

Over time the whole world has come to call those from the USA Americans. There is no other word which will suffice such as "USAian.

So yes I am American and people from all over the world refer to me as that (along with other things which would trigger <deleted>.)

Now I have ALWAYS wanted to be from England or Australia. FAR, FAR, FAR from England or Australia.

[thailiketoo]

Some posters seem to think that all cultures are equivalent in every way.

Of course it is tricky to compare, as one is conditioned by one's own culture.

But can the believers in cultural relatiivity please answer:

Is the European culture of the year 2014 equivalent to the European culture of the year 500?

No of course not. The European culture of the year 2014 and the European culture of the year 500 have nothing to do with the present day Thai culture.

Thai people/government/country get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for. European people get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for.

[nidieunimaitre]

Some posters seem to think that all cultures are equivalent in every way.

Of course it is tricky to compare, as one is conditioned by one's own culture.

But can the believers in cultural relatiivity please answer:

Is the European culture of the year 2014 equivalent to the European culture of the year 500?

No of course not. The European culture of the year 2014 and the European culture of the year 500 have nothing to do with the present day Thai culture.

Thai people/government/country get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for. European people get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for.

In your "sub text" - or whatever it is called, you quote John Lennon.

Perhaps you could look up the lyrics of "Imagine"?

[thailiketoo]

Some posters seem to think that all cultures are equivalent in every way.

Of course it is tricky to compare, as one is conditioned by one's own culture.

But can the believers in cultural relatiivity please answer:

Is the European culture of the year 2014 equivalent to the European culture of the year 500?

No of course not. The European culture of the year 2014 and the European culture of the year 500 have nothing to do with the present day Thai culture.

Thai people/government/country get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for. European people get the culture they impose or deserve or vote for.

In your "sub text" - or whatever it is called, you quote John Lennon.

Perhaps you could look up the lyrics of "Imagine"?

Is that your counterpoint? My quote illustrates how little a rock and roll idol knew about music.

[Mudcrab]

How are you tossers going to get on when Cultural Imperialism of the Al-Qaeda variety slaps you in the face very close to home?

We might all be brothers then regardless of whether we ride a bike 4 up with or without helmets.

I guess most posters will be dead by then so keep up with your posting of your nationalistic nonsense in the mean time.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Mudcrab

[Thai at Heart]

I was here too. You know what they say about assumptions...

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame."

Thais eating habits, weight, average education, dress, and standard of beauty has measurably changed since 1968.

The youth of Thailand have switch from being wannabe USA's to wannabe Kpop ers.

If you have not noticed the radical changes in Thailand since the 1960's you must be blind.

None of which is imperialism or forced onto Thailand.

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[PJcm]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I have lived her 37 years and every time I go back I hate it, the people are rude, self involved and shallow, and everyone tells you "Have a nice day"

And the women, need I say more, the size of them, and their arrogance, glad to be rid of them.

[ravip]

So what the OP is saying is that if the world or particularly the west invents or discovers something like a motorcycle, they shouldnt explain how to use it safely.

So if Thailand buys a nuclear reactor from the west, insisting that they use it safely equates to imperialism. Hmmmm

Please, people in Thailand or any 'Otherland' too have their grey matter built in.

This example is kind of... hmmmmmmm... - not right

Edited June 13, 2014 by ravip

[CharlesHH]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

I will try to do as you say but it is a real challenge for a bodhisattva to do that and something he needs to be constantly aware of and correct. P.S., if you feel "talked down to," then bring yourself up.

Dear Prince Charles, I do understand what you are trying to say.

However consider this.

Thai Language is 'tonal ' ... the tone changes the message or the words substantially.

The 'tone' of your OP is that of superiority ... of one who has reached enlightenment.

And we ... well we appear as just 'Grasshoppers' ... the ignorant masses.

Lower the tone. Talk with us, not to us.

Your words will have more meaning then.

BTW ... the people you refer to are from the USA ... not Americans ...

So, you're a "bodhisattva", or "enlightened one", trying to share your enlightened wisdom with us? Pearls before swine? Everything I've ever read or heard about "enlightenment" or "cosmic consciousness" concludes that the second one thinks he "gets it", that is a sure sign he doesn't get it, and never had it. More maya. Such a one doesn't go around making pompous pronouncements about what others should do or think. Such a one makes no claims for himself. Such a one lives in such a way that his very presence inspires others to live or think differently, without having to say much of anything. Or so I've heard.

Oh my god!

I read the OP, and thought bodhisattva meant some sort of sect or something.

But no, the OP thinks he is ENLIGHTENED.

The OP is lucky that apparently there are no TV forum rules against blasphemy.

Another one for my ignore list.

[Mudcrab]

The OP's example is not 'cultural imperialism', it is common bloody sense ! 4 on a motorbike is stupidly dangerous.

Explain why and under what circumstances.

[Mudcrab]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

So you have seemed to have defined your version of Cultural Imperialism quite well and have taken it upon yourself to "help" all sentient beings.

Sorry mate don't need your help, I'm happy riding a motorbike 4 up without a helmet.

Find your challenge elsewhere..maybe find some Jehovah's Witnesses, they seem to be a worldwide scourge and could be in need of your enilghtnement

[nidieunimaitre]

QUOTE from Thailiketoo:

"I think it is up to every country to make it's own decisions"

Thailiketoo believes in countries = governments

Others believe in people = individuals

Can Thai people vote for Scottish Independence?

Can Irish people vote for Irish Independence?

If the people of the Crimea what to leave their current country and join another can they?

Can Mexican people come to America with no visa?

Can I legally get married at 14 years of age in the USA?

I just had an "aha erlebnis".....

You are the same poster that dug himself a hole and refused to come out in the thread about unemployment statistics.

[Emster23]

'Not wearing helmets is our constitutional right." I assume you are referring to US Constitution. If so, please show me that amendment (they didn't have motorcycles when it was written, fyi). There is the clause referring to rights of states, which gives them decision making power regarding helmets and areas not specified as Federal duties. That is why helmet laws vary from state to state.

If an adult doesn't want to wear a helmet I think they should have something like a donor card, except this one would exclude medical care if you get your head cracked open because you confuse freedom with (dare I say) stupidity. I don't want my tax dollars or any of my other dollars keeping you alive on life support.

Other topic: taking vows of being bodhisattva does not make one a bodhisattva. I can take swearing in ceremony for new president, but doesn't make me president. Nice you did that, but do not assume that simple act "gets you there".

And..... concept of 0 was unknown (and leads to all sorts of math problems if using Roman numeral) was imported as "Arabic numerals" tho perhaps origin is India. And algebra is an Arabic word, which also gives you a hint of where that came from.

And.... I think the smallpox blankets 'gift" may have happened before there was such a thing as USA. But it is so easy and fun to blame everything on USA, even when there was no USA.....

[thailiketoo]

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame."

Thais eating habits, weight, average education, dress, and standard of beauty has measurably changed since 1968.

The youth of Thailand have switch from being wannabe USA's to wannabe Kpop ers.

If you have not noticed the radical changes in Thailand since the 1960's you must be blind.

None of which is imperialism or forced onto Thailand.

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

Boy have you got it backwards. It is not Thailand that is imposing anything on the world. It is the reverse. Thailand is like a gigantic cultural sponge that is always on the intake.

It is difficult if not impossible to find one thing that is uniquely Thai.

[benalibina]

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame."

Thais eating habits, weight, average education, dress, and standard of beauty has measurably changed since 1968.

The youth of Thailand have switch from being wannabe USA's to wannabe Kpop ers.

If you have not noticed the radical changes in Thailand since the 1960's you must be blind.

None of which is imperialism or forced onto Thailand.

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

Boy have you got it backwards. It is not Thailand that is imposing anything on the world. It is the reverse. Thailand is like a gigantic cultural sponge that is always on the intake.

It is difficult if not impossible to find one thing that is uniquely Thai.

Som Tam ??

[Emster23]

Jpop? Kpop? oy vey! If one were looking for reason to suicide, listening to that stuff ought to do the trick!

[ATF]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

Well either you or the Dalai Lama has got it wrong because Buddhists don't preach. That would be interfering with someone else's kharma and their kharma will be passed on to you. That is why most Thai's don't meddle in other people's affairs or judge other people's actions.

All religions teach basically the same thing. Be good or something bad is going to happen to you and by the way Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy.

[thailiketoo]

'Not wearing helmets is our constitutional right." I assume you are referring to US Constitution. If so, please show me that amendment (they didn't have motorcycles when it was written, fyi). There is the clause referring to rights of states, which gives them decision making power regarding helmets and areas not specified as Federal duties. That is why helmet laws vary from state to state.

If an adult doesn't want to wear a helmet I think they should have something like a donor card, except this one would exclude medical care if you get your head cracked open because you confuse freedom with (dare I say) stupidity. I don't want my tax dollars or any of my other dollars keeping you alive on life support.

Other topic: taking vows of being bodhisattva does not make one a bodhisattva. I can take swearing in ceremony for new president, but doesn't make me president. Nice you did that, but do not assume that simple act "gets you there".

And..... concept of 0 was unknown (and leads to all sorts of math problems if using Roman numeral) was imported as "Arabic numerals" tho perhaps origin is India. And algebra is an Arabic word, which also gives you a hint of where that came from.

And.... I think the smallpox blankets 'gift" may have happened before there was such a thing as USA. But it is so easy and fun to blame everything on USA, even when there was no USA.....

In Florida, those 21 yrs. and older may ride without helmets only if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Louisiana's law allows riders 18 yrs. and older to ride without helmets if they can show proof that they are covered by a medical insurance policy. Texas exempts riders 21 yrs. or older if they either 1) can show proof of successfully completing a motorcycle operator training and safety course or 2) can show proof of having a medical insurance policy.

[Mudcrab]

Jpop? Kpop? oy vey! If one were looking for reason to suicide, listening to that stuff ought to do the trick!

oy vey!

What does this mean in English? Are they real words or have you just made them up? What language is it? Thai? Why is it used on the English language forum?

[garrya]

When someone has spent 50 years or more living their life to a certain set of rules and behaviour, it isnt easy to adjust to a whole new concept and different set of rules and priorities.

I find its better not to sit in judgement but to make allowances for people to adjust. Some do some dont.

Its not easy unlearning !

I would say it isn't easy to adjust to lawlessness or ignorance. There are rules (more or less the same like everywhere), yet there is nobody to enforce them.

[garrya]

The OP's example is not 'cultural imperialism', it is common bloody sense ! 4 on a motorbike is stupidly dangerous.

Explain why and under what circumstances.

by Thai law, moron. It doesn't allow more than 2 on a motorbike. You shouldn't troll around.

[thailiketoo]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

Well either you or the Dalai Lama has got it wrong because Buddhists don't preach. That would be interfering with someone else's kharma and their kharma will be passed on to you. That is why most Thai's don't meddle in other people's affairs or judge other people's actions.

All religions teach basically the same thing. Be good or something bad is going to happen to you and by the way Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy.

thaeht

to preach; to sermonize

saL daaeng tham

to give a sermon

We arrive at the Wat as the monks come back from the village rounds and then gather in one of the main rooms (200 people) we all kneel down as one monk preaches for about an hour and then lunch is served.

This happens daily at the wat I attend.

Edited June 13, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Thai at Heart]

Is the above your idea of a counterpoint?

Watch my lips. You didn't make any points, just silly assumptions.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame."

Thais eating habits, weight, average education, dress, and standard of beauty has measurably changed since 1968.

The youth of Thailand have switch from being wannabe USA's to wannabe Kpop ers.

If you have not noticed the radical changes in Thailand since the 1960's you must be blind.

None of which is imperialism or forced onto Thailand.

I can think of only one completely world famous business that Thailand manages to sell to the world. And no, it isn't jasmine rice.

Boy have you got it backwards. It is not Thailand that is imposing anything on the world. It is the reverse. Thailand is like a gigantic cultural sponge that is always on the intake.

It is difficult if not impossible to find one thing that is uniquely Thai.

Well it definitely not imperialism if someone chooses to do something. No one is forcing Thais to get a nose job, or eat a McDonalds. They are doing this completely of their own volition.

So, I fail to see how this is classified as imperialism. As for the blokes, well thanks to a combination of western innovation to make the combustion engine, and Japanese ingenuity to Maas produce cheaply, Thais can choose to have a bike.

If they want to ride it without a helmet, that would be illegal under THAI law, so once again I don't see that as imperialism.

I think you are railing at the fact that for a society to function efficiently , there needs to be some rules and regs to play by. That is not a western concept, that is universal.

[Mudcrab]

The OP's example is not 'cultural imperialism', it is common bloody sense ! 4 on a motorbike is stupidly dangerous.

Explain why and under what circumstances.

by Thai law, moron. It doesn't allow more than 2 on a motorbike. You shouldn't troll around.

where did I mention law? I believe 2 up on a public road is the legal limit.

So i ask again why is 4 on a motorbike dangerous?

Edited June 13, 2014 by Mudcrab

[ATF]

I took bodhisattva vows from HH the Dalai Lama. There are heavy demands and I am always working to try to do better. However, a part of some Buddhist training involves teachers doing very stern talk, often seeming to take a superior attitude, and even smacks with a cane pole on slacker students.

It is not blasphemy nor bragging to tell the truth.

I am not enlightened, but according to Buddhism, it is my job to help all sentient beings. The challenge on ThaiVisa is to find some of those. Living in Thailand and knowing nothing of, nor caring about, the hugely dominant local belief system, Buddhism, is more cultural imperialism by arrogant "punters" and some "blokes," too. We are all Grasshoppers, respectful at the knees of a teacher.

Well either you or the Dalai Lama has got it wrong because Buddhists don't preach. That would be interfering with someone else's kharma and their kharma will be passed on to you. That is why most Thai's don't meddle in other people's affairs or judge other people's actions.

All religions teach basically the same thing. Be good or something bad is going to happen to you and by the way Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy.

thaeht

to preach; to sermonize

saL daaeng tham

to give a sermon

We arrive at the Wat as the monks come back from the village rounds and then gather in one of the main rooms (200 people) we all kneel down as one monk preaches for about an hour and then lunch is served.

This happens daily at the wat I attend.

What I meant is they don't preach in the Christian sense. Trying to convert everyone or telling them what they are doing is wrong. You can see the monks on the TV giving lessons in Buddhism and life. They don't come knockin' on your door or try to preach through forums.

[thailiketoo]

Well it definitely not imperialism if someone chooses to do something. No one is forcing Thais to get a nose job, or eat a McDonalds. They are doing this completely of their own volition.

So, I fail to see how this is classified as imperialism. As for the blokes, well thanks to a combination of western innovation to make the combustion engine, and Japanese ingenuity to Maas produce cheaply, Thais can choose to have a bike.

If they want to ride it without a helmet, that would be illegal under THAI law, so once again I don't see that as imperialism.

I think you are railing at the fact that for a society to function efficiently , there needs to be some rules and regs to play by. That is not a western concept, that is universal.

Nope I was responding to the post below.

rijb, on 13 Jun 2014 - 15:05, said:

If you think Thailand can be changed so easily (by westerners), then you don't know 'crap' about Thais.

Maybe you could try being a hare krishna.

I wrote, "Not been to a mall lately eh? cheesy.gif No Thais eat at Mac's or KFC. cheesy.gif Lots of skinny Thais wandering around in sarongs. cheesy.gif Plastic surgeons in Thailand specialize in breast reductions and making narrow eyes and flat noses. cheesy.gif I love Pizza. Pizza must be a Thai dish eh? cheesy.gif The first Thai politician who hires a good Western ad agency and actually pays attention to them wins the whole ballgame.

PS The ability to mass produce cheaply was invented by Henry Ford not the Japanese. That was Ford's main contribution to the automobile industry; a car that his workers could buy. In other words he made his own customers. Cars were made before Ford but he invented the assembly line for autos and made the first cheap car.

[kannot]

"Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation"

Yes I do believe I am better in many ways, I dont pi*s in the road, chuck my rubbish where I like, drive like a t**t putting innocent peoples lives at risk, put other people first, hold door s open for folk, actually wait, make so much noise at 3-4-5am I keep others awake, gob everywhere, actually look at and address the person Im in front of not my phone, dont park across anyones driveway, have loud conversations at 2 am in the corridor of a condo,ram my religion down someone's throat insisting its 100% fact when its baseless, look when crossing roads.

Are all Thais like this? NO but theres an awful lot who appear to be when Im out and about.

YES Im sorry I really believe Im better.

[Emster23]

Jpop? Kpop? oy vey! If one were looking for reason to suicide, listening to that stuff ought to do the trick!

oy vey!

What does this mean in English? Are they real words or have you just made them up? What language is it? Thai? Why is it used on the English language forum?

"oy vey" is a Yiddish term in common usage by regular American English (there is such a beast) speakers. Ever kibitz while watching a game of chess? Like bagels? Does it take chutzpah to say this? Or am I being a klutz... Good of you to catch it. All languages borrow from others. That's why I sit on my veranda in pyjamas in the boondocks and have a nosh. (Spanish, Urdu, Tagalog, and Yiddish again, I think). Good book is "The Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson... how English got to be the way it is. ALL cultures take from each other. I think there are more Thai restaurants in Portland now than Chinese. Should I protest that? Should all Thais give up their smart phones? (good luck!). You have a CV? That's latin, per se (so is that).... Enough of this spiel. Shalom

[thailiketoo]

"Cultural imperialism means that one person believes himself and his world view to be superior to a specific people or nation"

Yes I do believe I am better in many ways, I dont pi*s in the road, chuck my rubbish where I like, drive like a t**t putting innocent peoples lives at risk, put other people first, hold door s open for folk, actually wait, make so much noise at 3-4-5am I keep others awake, gob everywhere, actually look at and address the person Im in front of not my phone, dont park across anyones driveway, have loud conversations at 2 am in the corridor of a condo,ram my religion down someone's throat insisting its 100% fact when its baseless, look when crossing roads.

Are all Thais like this? NO but theres an awful lot who appear to be when Im out and about.

YES Im sorry I really believe Im better.

Why would you be sorry. Join the ranks of every other ****** who thought his poop didn't stink.

How could anyone disagree with your impeccable logic?

I could live in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK or Thailand. I picked Thailand because I like the Thai people better.