Tired legs when jogging

[helvellyn]

Hi Brit1984,

I'm a fairly experienced runner and have run and raced a lot in Thailand over the past few years. A few comments:

- You mention that you used to run about 2 hours a day, every day, when at Uni. I'm not clear whether you're attempting to do the same thing now, but I guess you at least have an expectation of being able to build back up to that. In my opinion, 2 hours a day, 7 days a week is overdoing it unless you a very serious amateur or an elite. You can get away with these things when you're a teenager, but even at 29, that is too much in my view. I think you should have at least 1 day totally off running. If you are still in the "getting back into it" mode, then I would suggest no more than 4 days running, with possibly an extra day doing some other exercise like swimming or gym work.

- I was quite fit when I was in the UK and then didn't do any running at all for 2 years when I first came to Thailand. When I went out to do my first run in Thailand I had to have a walking break on a lowly 5 mile training run. It must have taken a good 6 months to build up from there to anything like my previous level. In other words, don't expect too much too soon....build it up slowly.

- Running in Thailand is much harder than the UK due to the heat, humidity, air pollution, dogs and lack of pavement to run on. However much you get used to it, it will probably never be possible to get back to the level you had before in the UK.

- You should be running at 6am.

- Eat about an hour before you run. I find porridge is the absolute best energy food for a run. Definitely don't eat sweet things leading up to the run and don't stuff yourself just before you start.

- I find that some days the legs feel good and some days I feel like I have no energy or power right from the very first steps. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it, it's just one of those things. But you do get to recognise the feeling of being "on a bad day" and just don't read too much into it and struggle through the run in a low gear.

- I note the points made about stretching above. I've never been a big fan of stretching myself. However, I would recommend some very basic stretches before you start. Just lifting up each of your knees to waist height a few times. Possibly holding your feet to your bum. Don't over do it, but a couple of basic stretches like I've mentioned does make a difference in my view.

- Frankly - and I know this is contrary to what some people have said above - but I would fully expect aching leg muscles to be the limiting factor. It's difficult, because we don't know exactly what sort of pain/aching you are experiencing, but I would be much more worried if you said you had pains in your chest. Even when I have tried a long run after a year of inactivity, I have always found it to be aching legs that stopped me and not being out of breath. It seems normal to me.

- At 29 you should definitely not be having any age related issues. You're basically in your prime as far as long-distance running goes. You might be surprised how many ultra runners there are in their 60s.

All the best with your training. I don't know where you're based, but I know there is a thriving running scene in Chiang Mai.

great post, thanks

i will aim to go 6am (had been going ~8am or ~6pm) but my time is flexible so i could go early, and get up an hour earlier to eat (i was eating +3 hours before)

now i'm in bangkok but my medium term plan is to move to chiang mai, partly because i imagine there are some good places for jogging there, although my friends say there aren't so many good public parks there (although they are thai friends with little knowledge/interest of anything "outside")

It's true that Chiang Mai doesn't have much in the way of public parks for a city of it's size. There are basically two in the centre, neither of which are big enough for any serious running. However, a bit out of town you have the Huay Tung Tao lake, which is a beautiful place to run. Also, you can just go out to the country lanes on the outskirts of the city fairly easily, which make for good running.

[brit1984]

Hi Brit1984,

I'm a fairly experienced runner and have run and raced a lot in Thailand over the past few years. A few comments:

- You mention that you used to run about 2 hours a day, every day, when at Uni. I'm not clear whether you're attempting to do the same thing now, but I guess you at least have an expectation of being able to build back up to that. In my opinion, 2 hours a day, 7 days a week is overdoing it unless you a very serious amateur or an elite. You can get away with these things when you're a teenager, but even at 29, that is too much in my view. I think you should have at least 1 day totally off running. If you are still in the "getting back into it" mode, then I would suggest no more than 4 days running, with possibly an extra day doing some other exercise like swimming or gym work.

- I was quite fit when I was in the UK and then didn't do any running at all for 2 years when I first came to Thailand. When I went out to do my first run in Thailand I had to have a walking break on a lowly 5 mile training run. It must have taken a good 6 months to build up from there to anything like my previous level. In other words, don't expect too much too soon....build it up slowly.

- Running in Thailand is much harder than the UK due to the heat, humidity, air pollution, dogs and lack of pavement to run on. However much you get used to it, it will probably never be possible to get back to the level you had before in the UK.

- You should be running at 6am.

- Eat about an hour before you run. I find porridge is the absolute best energy food for a run. Definitely don't eat sweet things leading up to the run and don't stuff yourself just before you start.

- I find that some days the legs feel good and some days I feel like I have no energy or power right from the very first steps. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it, it's just one of those things. But you do get to recognise the feeling of being "on a bad day" and just don't read too much into it and struggle through the run in a low gear.

- I note the points made about stretching above. I've never been a big fan of stretching myself. However, I would recommend some very basic stretches before you start. Just lifting up each of your knees to waist height a few times. Possibly holding your feet to your bum. Don't over do it, but a couple of basic stretches like I've mentioned does make a difference in my view.

- Frankly - and I know this is contrary to what some people have said above - but I would fully expect aching leg muscles to be the limiting factor. It's difficult, because we don't know exactly what sort of pain/aching you are experiencing, but I would be much more worried if you said you had pains in your chest. Even when I have tried a long run after a year of inactivity, I have always found it to be aching legs that stopped me and not being out of breath. It seems normal to me.

- At 29 you should definitely not be having any age related issues. You're basically in your prime as far as long-distance running goes. You might be surprised how many ultra runners there are in their 60s.

All the best with your training. I don't know where you're based, but I know there is a thriving running scene in Chiang Mai.

great post, thanks

i will aim to go 6am (had been going ~8am or ~6pm) but my time is flexible so i could go early, and get up an hour earlier to eat (i was eating +3 hours before)

now i'm in bangkok but my medium term plan is to move to chiang mai, partly because i imagine there are some good places for jogging there, although my friends say there aren't so many good public parks there (although they are thai friends with little knowledge/interest of anything "outside")

It's true that Chiang Mai doesn't have much in the way of public parks for a city of it's size. There are basically two in the centre, neither of which are big enough for any serious running. However, a bit out of town you have the Huay Tung Tao lake, which is a beautiful place to run. Also, you can just go out to the country lanes on the outskirts of the city fairly easily, which make for good running.

that sounds nice about the country lanes but i will have to be careful about dogs... for some reason the dogs always go for me when i'm jogging (guess they can smell fear) which is the 2nd most important reason i jog in the university park (students girls being #1 reason)

i will check about the area where Huay Tung Tao lake is located... maybe I will try to live around there (assuming there are some houses there), I don't really want/need to be in the center of town

[realenglish1]

Suggestion

Strengthen your legs with a tread mill Don't run just walk sharply for 30 minutes this will not only strenghthen your muscles but make you feel better over all After doing this for a bout10 days then start to jog more You will find your legs not tiring so easily

[TPG3]

Hi OP,

in none of the posts, I read about the pace that you run.

I also didn't see (or overlooked) your height.

Running in Thailand is a totally different story compared to western countries. Running 30km on a sunday morning 5:30am is absolutely exhausting in Pattaya. But running 30km in a faster pace in Germany was a piece of cake compared to that.

My background:

I ran a few half marathons, will run the Pattaya half marathon in July and a few more and now train for the Bangkok marathon in November.

Shoes: Highly overrated unless you really have the wrong shoes/feet. But THIS, you should feel in your knees after 1km.

Food supplement: Careful with this. With normal nutrition, you should cover your needs.

Drinking: Bottled water - and green tea as it contains sugar - will help you with long runs (20km+). Short to mid runs are easily covered with bottled water.

I think you might not have adapted your pace to your physical condition and / or weather conditions. Especially pain in your thighs and calfs is a sign for that. Go the distance first (slow) and then increase the pace.

Do you have a training plan which mixes long slow runs (once a week), shorter quick sessions and maybe interval runs?

I can not give you a solution now as there are too many unknown variables.

If you have questions, get back to me with a PM

Kind regards

[helvellyn]

Shoes: Highly overrated unless you really have the wrong shoes/feet. But THIS, you should feel in your knees after 1km.

What can he do if he has the wrong feet?

[catweazle]

Sounds like mineral depletion of some kind or might be signs of chronic venous insufficiency (CVI)

This link might help: http://www.health24.com/Medical/Leg/Leg-problems/Tired-heavy-legs-may-indicate-CVI-20120721

[AnotherOneAmerican]

great post, thanks

i will aim to go 6am (had been going ~8am or ~6pm) but my time is flexible so i could go early, and get up an hour earlier to eat (i was eating +3 hours before)

now i'm in bangkok but my medium term plan is to move to chiang mai, partly because i imagine there are some good places for jogging there, although my friends say there aren't so many good public parks there (although they are thai friends with little knowledge/interest of anything "outside")

It's true that Chiang Mai doesn't have much in the way of public parks for a city of it's size. There are basically two in the centre, neither of which are big enough for any serious running. However, a bit out of town you have the Huay Tung Tao lake, which is a beautiful place to run. Also, you can just go out to the country lanes on the outskirts of the city fairly easily, which make for good running.

Jogging track in the exercise park, top of Huay Keow Rd, just before Zoo.

Jogging track at the left spoke of Night Safari roundabout.

Exercise track called Pilgrims Trail from behind the Zoo up to Wat Doi Suthep.

Jogging track outside Huay Tung Tao lake.

Sports Staduim and running track, 700 year stadium.

Hiking trails all over the mountain.

Several hiking groups for all levels of fitness.

Cycling clubs

Kayaking

How many do you need?

Edited June 17, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[atyclb]

Also important is to concentrate on a breathing regime, you must have a continuous "wanted" supply of oxygen for the blood to pick up to feed the muscle group you are working, in your case legs. If you don't then you will get the "burn". Same with my weight training, was a bit of a learning curve. Seen guys try doing heavy stuff and not breathing properly and get into trouble.

Not sure about that one. breathing intensity and frequency is automatic in response to body metabolic needs. if you purposely breathe too fast you can create some negative metabolic acid;base changes that could lead to more serious issues.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, an instance, I am an old guy, not big, but for some reason I can press all the weight on a triceps machine, in fact I took a piece of wire to add on 10kg. Nooooo probs. A young guy watched, he wanted to do the same, I stood and watched, he could not breath cos everything he had was trying to do what I can. I said "breath", he said "I cannot".........anyhow, he did well but on standing up he was unable to walk straight, I thought he might topple.......

The guy was in charge of the gym.......

A few altered breaths for lifting weights is different from the scenario of running, which is prolonged. If someone were to increase breathing rate beyond what the body does automatically you'd throw off CO2 (an acid) and create a respiratory alkalosis. Google alkalosis. If you are sado-masochistic google "delta delta triple disorders"

Other possibilities already mentioned including #deconditioning # dehydration # electrolyte

Edited June 17, 2014 by atyclb

[Gandtee]

It's a lack of basic exercise. I hop out of bed in the morning, run to the toilet, skip breakfast, climb up the stairs and here I am, fit as a butchers' dog and well past my sell by date. I hope it lasts???

[Loptr]

Question for the OP... Are you by chance taking Statins to lower your cholesterol? If so, then I would wager that they are causing your issues...

[tubby johnson]

For endurance and cramps-free running, a crucial mineral to add to your diet is magnesium.

Also, drinking beetroot juice before you run will greatly increase the flow of oxygen to your muscles. It's like a steroid, but natural (and legal).

Other beneficial foods are ginseng, chia seeds and hemp seeds.

[catweazle]

Sounds like mineral depletion of some kind (magnesium, etc.) or might be signs of chronic venous insufficiency (CVI)

This link might help: http://www.health24.com/Medical/Leg/Leg-problems/Tired-heavy-legs-may-indicate-CVI-20120721

Edited June 17, 2014 by catweazle

[brit1984]

Hi OP,

in none of the posts, I read about the pace that you run.

I also didn't see (or overlooked) your height.

Running in Thailand is a totally different story compared to western countries. Running 30km on a sunday morning 5:30am is absolutely exhausting in Pattaya. But running 30km in a faster pace in Germany was a piece of cake compared to that.

My background:

I ran a few half marathons, will run the Pattaya half marathon in July and a few more and now train for the Bangkok marathon in November.

Shoes: Highly overrated unless you really have the wrong shoes/feet. But THIS, you should feel in your knees after 1km.

Food supplement: Careful with this. With normal nutrition, you should cover your needs.

Drinking: Bottled water - and green tea as it contains sugar - will help you with long runs (20km+). Short to mid runs are easily covered with bottled water.

I think you might not have adapted your pace to your physical condition and / or weather conditions. Especially pain in your thighs and calfs is a sign for that. Go the distance first (slow) and then increase the pace.

Do you have a training plan which mixes long slow runs (once a week), shorter quick sessions and maybe interval runs?

I can not give you a solution now as there are too many unknown variables.

If you have questions, get back to me with a PM

Kind regards

thanks

i'm 183cm and 80kg, and i run around 8-10km in 1 hour

the difference in conditions/climate vs home is a recurring theme i should pay more attention to

i definitely need more variance in my training, i had just been doing the same every time

[brit1984]

Question for the OP... Are you by chance taking Statins to lower your cholesterol? If so, then I would wager that they are causing your issues...

no but i might need to if i cant stop my habit of eating 4 fried eggs per day

[transam]

Question for the OP... Are you by chance taking Statins to lower your cholesterol? If so, then I would wager that they are causing your issues...

no but i might need to if i cant stop my habit of eating 4 fried eggs per day

Eggs are OK if you eat both parts, cholesterol will be neutral, poaching is best, nooo fat.

[RedQualia]

Surprised only one person has suggested seeing a doctor. See a doctor. It could very well be oxygen deprivation to the muscles. The solution for that problem may be additional exercise. But you're too young to have such a problem. I mean, under most circumstances. Except yours. Makes me wonder how big your heart might be, and why. What caused this problem, if other than your imagination?

See a doctor. Then when you die, at least your widow/gf/bf/whatever can say to the doc, "See? I told you so!"

Did I say "see a doctor?" See a doctor. They aren't so expensive here, you know? Or, listen to the guys on ThaiVisa saying, "sounds like a mineral depletion." Up to you...

[haikurd]

If you don't have any pre-existing knee problems, running is very good for you. Could be you've just gotten a bit out of shape and need time to build you leg muscles up? Take it slow and build up gradually. It does take you longer as you get older - even 19 to 29 : ) . You could be toe-ing off too hard - focus on raising you leg from the hip, not launching yourself with the ball of your foot. There's tons of stuff on running technique on line, I use the Pose Method. Finally, a good chance you calves & feet are too tight (e.g., the muscle is "clenched" all the time) & if that's true your hips are probably tight to. You can roll it out with a baseball - for tight outside of leg, sit in a kneeling position, and put the baseball just to the outside of the shin and shift your weight onto it - do on about 3-4 spots per leg. For backside of the leg, move the baseball between your calf & thigh in the same position, and under your knee. You can do all up the outside of the thigh as well with a ball or foam roller. If your goal is to keep running a long time with no injuries, you should be doing something like this after every run, and also ankle/knee mobility exercises, that will protect you from shin splints and knee injury. The key is not trying to "stretch" the muscle but "relaxing" a clenched muscle so it moves properly.

[bangkapi]

As a life-long runner, I can tell you that we all have limiting factors that keep us from performing better.

If you are a very fit person, that limiting factor always becomes the legs by the time you are in your 30's.

People who were not into fitness at a younger age will usually be limited by their minds or their lungs.

[brit1984]

As a life-long runner, I can tell you that we all have limiting factors that keep us from performing better.

If you are a very fit person, that limiting factor always becomes the legs by the time you are in your 30's.

People who were not into fitness at a younger age will usually be limited by their minds or their lungs.

how do you keep jumping all day?

[haikurd]

Someone said this but bears repeating - give yourself a "rest" day every other day - either do something else like swimming or do really light running and focus on drills on the off day. You will improve faster if you mix it up a lot and keep it interesting.

RE seeing a doctor - it is pretty normal for your legs to get tired when you run. Especially if you used to run and are just picking it up again after a long time, and your body is trying to match what you were doing when you were 19 right away. It's always good to get a check-up and discuss things like this with a doctor, but if you're running 10k in an hour and your muscles don't hurt on otherwise, you're are probably pretty healthy.

[Sheryl]

some great ideas thanks so much...

weak legs muscles... yes i have chicken legs... i need to do some gym work (or maybe squats in my room holding random heavy objects)

bad footwear... yes the air bubbles have burst on both my trainers but the last 5/6 months coincided with a time i've been too poor to buy a replacement pair... i will try to find a cheaper but decent pair

carbs... i have a big bowl of muesli every morning and maybe half a loaf of bread per day, but very little rice (no potatoes, no pasta)... not sure if it's enough but i will try carbo loading the night before a jog and see if it helps

dehydration... by the end of each jog i am normally soaked wet through with sweat (except only the bottom corners of my tee-shirt) so this could well be an issue, i currently drink 600ml water per 1 hour jog but i will experiment drinking more (or using energy drinks)

swimming... i should do this more, i think (almost) everyone should, thanks for the push

electrolyte depletion is a real issue when sweating a lot, and can cause leg cramps (esp. low potassium).

Switch from water to a balanced electrolyte solution - there are many on the market, or green coconut juioce is also great. Will make a difference. that and stretches and going a bot more gradually until you are fully in shape.

[pomchop]

Try walking for a few weeks then work up to jogging or just stick to walking?

Walking provides almost all the

same benefits as jogging and much fewer injuries / knee problems/ etc. Walk at normal speeds and finish off with a few minutes of brisk walking to get the heart pumping.

[mrfaroukh]

There is a possibility that you are getting back problem, get a MRI done and see if you get any slip disk etc. When this happen it press the nerves going to your leg and make you tired. Take care of it before it is too late.

[ggt]

Wait until you get 39...49...59...the years and the pain add up at the same time...let your body tell you what you are capable of...do not force the issue...you may create more health problems for yourself...good luck...

Edited June 17, 2014 by ggt

[shadmo63]

There is a possibility that you are getting back problem, get a MRI done and see if you get any slip disk etc. When this happen it press the nerves going to your leg and make you tired. Take care of it before it is too late.

Anything is possible but IMAO unlikely as you are young and as far as I know only have the problem while running. You have many good suggestions to explore before this one.

[dotpoom]

Oscar Wilde on Exercise...................."When you feel the need to exercise....lie down....the feeling will soon go away"

[JimHuaHin]

I have a few too many friends aged 45+ who used to jog or run every day; by their late 40s - early 50s most had to have knee operations.

Cycling is good, as pointed out above, but several doctors and sports scientists have told me over the years that swimming is the best exercise (with sex a close second, not joking) as it gets the heart rate up and uses a lot more body muscles than running/jogging, but without the adverse impact on bones and joints.

[TexasRanger]

If you don't take any other advice please take this.

Always get checked out by a doc for ANY concerns.

NEVER "man up" and ignore pain.

I manned up about 3 years ago and almost died as a result.

Good luck and good health.

[jmccarty]

If you don't take any other advice please take this.

Always get checked out by a doc for ANY concerns.

NEVER "man up" and ignore pain.

I manned up about 3 years ago and almost died as a result.

Good luck and good health.

My father always used to say, "Laughter is the best medicine", which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis.

Jack Handey came up with that, and good food for thought!

[JB300]

Gels instead of carb drinks and some solids after an hour or so (home made energy bars).

Would you mind providing more details on the home made energy bars (what's in them, how do you make them) I seem to spend a fortune on them but if I don't have one an hour after training, feel like I'm starving.

To the OP, it's been said a few times but worth repeating, 600ml of water is no where near enough for the level of exercise you're doing, I take 2 x 750ml bottles of mineral water (Find the Evian sports bottles work well, but I top them up with cheaper stuff) & drink 1 during 45 mins on a treadmill (in an air conditioned gym) & the other in the 20-30 mins cooling down period after, then another 2-3 liters during the day (and this is in Singapore where it's not as humid as Thailand).

Interesting point about eating both parts of the egg neutralizes the cholesterol impact, any more information on this as I also eat 3-5 eggs a day but at my last annual checkup was told my cholesterol was marginally on the high side so have been making a conscious effort to cut down on eggs / not eat the yokes.

Edited June 18, 2014 by JB300