Work Permit for Condo Foreign Board Chairman and Members

[qkd888]

This is moved from Ask Lawyer forum as they specified:

We are a small 15 unit condominium in Patong, Phuket. We have a Thai national employed with salary as the Juristic Person Condominium Manager who handles all duties including financial disbursements.

Do the foreign national Board Chairman and two foreign national Board Members need work permits and is this referenced in any document.

[ezzra]

Only the juristic person manger need to either have WP or be a Thai national, the others

on the board, if foreigners, don't need to...

[Justanotherpassword]

Odd, in an 880 unit building our JP was Canadian, got no salary as chosen from within the committee, was "acting" juristic person because there was not an adequate quorum of co owners to vote upon one. This was registered with the land office (an all farang committee) in Jomtien with oodles of copies of passports and no one cared.

[SDM0712]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

[mahjongguy]

There's often some animosity between committee members and owners, usually having to do with rentals and commissions. Big egos, self-righteousness, or even just strongly different views, and on occasion someone gets the nasty idea of ratting out someone else for working illegally. I remember a case in Phuket of a committee officer being hauled to the police station for doing some banking. Of course, there's never any follow-up news about the outcome.

Join the committee. Represent your interests. But I would not recommend that a farang be the juristic person nor the president.

[Justanotherpassword]

There's often some animosity between committee members and owners, usually having to do with rentals and commissions. Big egos, self-righteousness, or even just strongly different views, and on occasion someone gets the nasty idea of ratting out someone else for working illegally. I remember a case in Phuket of a committee officer being hauled to the police station for doing some banking. Of course, there's never any follow-up news about the outcome.

Join the committee. Represent your interests. But I would not recommend that a farang be the juristic person nor the president.

However three signatures are needed from committee members to process a single check. Of course I do not know what you actually mean by the phrase "doing banking." Committee members should never handle money. Members also own a percentage of the building so NO WORK PERMIT IS REQUIRED AS THEY ARE: "in their own house."

[FritsSikkink]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

[BadBouy]

the last line from the link to the article in post #7

"Even in the aftermath of the 2004 tsunami disaster, foreign volunteers working in the relief effort were warned to get work permits or risk facing penalties of three years in jail, a 30,000 baht fine, or both.” - See more at: http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329#sthash.IDrCB4Dm.dpuf

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. I do not contest the statement, but the stupidity of the policy.

[TerryLH]

""Even in the aftermath of the 2004 tsunami disaster, foreign volunteers working in the relief effort were warned to get work permits or risk facing penalties of three years in jail, a 30,000 baht fine, or both.”"

"One of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. I do not contest the statement, but the stupidity of the policy."

What do you think is so stupid about it?

I assume you weren't here then and don't know about many of the problems some volunteers were causing.

Way more trouble than they were worth.

[Justanotherpassword]

I reiterate. No one cared.

[Justanotherpassword]

http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/condominium-admin-handbook.html#2

Nothing whatsoever about citizenship, work permits etc. Only ownership applies.

[Justanotherpassword]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

You realize you are quoting a non governmental agency don't you? His Business is charging Farang money for paperwork they might, but probably do not, need.

[Soutpeel]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

You realize you are quoting a non governmental agency don't you? His Business is charging Farang money for paperwork they might, but probably do not, need.

Er I think you will find the person concerned is the head of work permit section of the DOL, (department of labour) which is most certainly a government department

[FritsSikkink]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

You realize you are quoting a non governmental agency don't you? His Business is charging Farang money for paperwork they might, but probably do not, need.

No

[Justanotherpassword]

Phuket Employment Office?

You mean this closed office?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/696608-phuket-employment-office-closed-due-to-anti-government-protests/

[Justanotherpassword]

Perhaps the department of land and the department of labor need to have a confab and settle their paperwork differences. Meanwhile disaffected condo owners who complain about the costs of anything down to ten baht will be spending money on lawsuits and whoever offers the greatest "incentive" will win the day.

[Soutpeel]

Phuket Employment Office?

You mean this closed office?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/696608-phuket-employment-office-closed-due-to-anti-government-protests/

Wasn't closed in 2012 when the question was asked was it ?

[Soutpeel]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

You realize you are quoting a non governmental agency don't you? His Business is charging Farang money for paperwork they might, but probably do not, need.

No

No what ?

[Justanotherpassword]

No clue boys no clue! Have either of you served on a condo committee? Of course you have not!

[Soutpeel]

No clue boys no clue! Have either of you served on a condo committee? Of course you have not!

No I have my own house dear boy, so a committee of 1.... Me

BTW what relevance is your last remark anyway, you said the office concerned was closed and I commented the question referenced was posted in 2012

Edited June 18, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Justanotherpassword]

No clue boys no clue! Have either of you served on a condo committee? Of course you have not!

No I have my own house dear boy, so a committee of 1.... Me

BTW what relevance is your last remark anyway, you said the office concerned was closed and I commented the question referenced was posted in 2012

And all the others in your corporation and/or family..... too much time. Good luck in the house you own in Thailand while you bother to comment on minutia of conflicting turf wars between two different Thai regulatory bodies. The OP should consult the land office only. The only enforceable laws are written in the Thai language anyway for present.

[FritsSikkink]

Here an official answer from Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan:

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

You realize you are quoting a non governmental agency don't you? His Business is charging Farang money for paperwork they might, but probably do not, need.

No

No what ?

No it isn't a non governmental agency

[FritsSikkink]

No clue boys no clue! Have either of you served on a condo committee? Of course you have not!

No I have my own house dear boy, so a committee of 1.... Me

BTW what relevance is your last remark anyway, you said the office concerned was closed and I commented the question referenced was posted in 2012

And all the others in your corporation and/or family..... too much time. Good luck in the house you own in Thailand while you bother to comment on minutia of conflicting turf wars between two different Thai regulatory bodies. The OP should consult the land office only. The only enforceable laws are written in the Thai language anyway for present.

The land office has nothing to do with workpermits

[iancnx]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

[FritsSikkink]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

I depends :

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

[Justanotherpassword]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

I depends :

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

Sounds like a great way to keep those pesky foreigners off a condo committee. Forget that the people involved each own a percentage of their building. Regardless of whatever any official might say as they pad their fees it is the Department of Land that certifies and regulates condominiums to be in accordance with the Thai Condo Act.

[paz]

Not a surprise, in cases like this, ask 10 persons that are supposed to know, you will get 10 different answers.

The law is written to be unclear, there is no jurisprudence (precedents) or if there are they don't matter.

The law is then applied to abused, or not enforced, or anything else is convenient for someone.

Not to talk about non-western foreigners, in that case all the laws and regulations go directly to the bin.

In reality nobody cares about the law or its spirit in Thailand. People only care for immediate self-interest. That is especially true for public servants, officers, lawyers and judges.

[Soutpeel]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

I depends :

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

Sounds like a great way to keep those pesky foreigners off a condo committee. Forget that the people involved each own a percentage of their building. Regardless of whatever any official might say as they pad their fees it is the Department of Land that certifies and regulates condominiums to be in accordance with the Thai Condo Act.

And its the department of labour that oversees the labour act and work permit issuance so it would have to be the DOL who has the final say unless there is a specific clause mentioned in the Thai Condo act, so is there ?

[Soutpeel]

Not a surprise, in cases like this, ask 10 persons that are supposed to know, you will get 10 different answers.

The law is written to be unclear, there is no jurisprudence (precedents) or if there are they don't matter.

The law is then applied to abused, or not enforced, or anything else is convenient for someone.

Not to talk about non-western foreigners, in that case all the laws and regulations go directly to the bin.

In reality nobody cares about the law or its spirit in Thailand. People only care for immediate self-interest. That is especially true for public servants, officers, lawyers and judges.

Actually if you read the link the answer is pretty definitive, nothing unclear in the answer given

[SDM0712]

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

“Your post is out of context and nonsense!”

I don’t agree, let have a look at the facts. SDM

“This thread is about a co-owners committee of a condo”.

In general terms I agree, however to be more specific, the title of the thread is “Work Permit for Condo Foreign Board Chairman and Members” and “Do the foreign national Board Chairman and two foreign national Board Members need work permits.”

“The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law.

“ Once again I agree, however I can see no mention of exemptions for the requirements to have work permits.

Although you disagree that this is work in saying “It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.”

However Chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan, who in 2012 was the Work Permit Division of Phuket Employment Office would seem to disagree with you. He said

“…………….Normally, being on a committee involves attending meetings to make decisions and signing papers. In this case, you would need a work permit.”

I did notice it has been pointed out that this office is now closed, however the last amendment to The Condominium Act was in 1999 and last amendment to The Alien Working Act was in 2008. My point being that whether this office is either presently open or closed is irrelevant. The relevant Laws as they were 2012 are exactly the same in 2014, so clearly the same rule applies.

“They do NOT require a WP. “

Hopefully I have illustrated that this claim is wrong, it’s not my opinion but has been proven with the evidence that I have given.

“Your post is out of context and nonsense!”

It would seem not.

If you disagree, please tell us why.

SDM

Sources;

The Condominium Act 1979 (Amended 1999) http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0336.pdf

The Alien Working Act 2008 http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf

Chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

Edited June 18, 2014 by SDM0712