Auschwitz guard, 89, arrested in US

[webfact]

Auschwitz guard, 89, arrested in US

PHILADELPHIA: -- An 89-year-old accused of aiding and abetting the killing of hundreds of thousands of Jews has been arrested.

Johann Breyer is being held without bail in Pennsylvania after Germany issued a warrant for his arrest following new evidence.

While admitting he was an Auschwitz guard, he says he was stationed outside and had nothing to do with the deaths.

His lawyer told a Philadelphia court his client was too frail to be held while awaiting extradition hearings.

But the retired toolmaker was refused bail on Wednesday after his arrest at home in Philadelphia.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27915040


-- BBC 2014-06-19

[Ulysses G.]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

[ClutchClark]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

Hopefully, it WILL.

[thumper101]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

[Rob8891]

Good. Another one bites the dust.

[JesseFrank]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

Didn't realize that Pennsylvania was in Germany these days.

[PMZ]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

Didn't realize that Pennsylvania was in Germany these days.

Quote ' held without bail in Pennsylvania after Germany issued a warrant for his arrest '

Quote ' held while awaiting extradition hearings '

[NeverSure]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

[bangkapi]

Sick... Leave the old man alone unless there is conclusive proof of the allegations.

Why did they not chase the big money Nazis to Peru and Chile?

[jmccarty]

Was 20 at the end of WW2 and already tried from involvement by another judge in the 1990's. But that failed when the judge ruled he was a natural-born citizen through his mother and was coerced into joining the SS as a minor.

In the US, you can't be tried for the same crime twice. That will stall extradition.

[Ulysses G.]

That will stall extradition.

He was a Nazi that worked for a concentration camp where thousands were murdered. Don't count on it.

[Saradoc1972]

Hopefully, his execution won't be botched.

He won't be executed. Germany does not have the death penalty.

At 89, what's the point... He probably won't live to reach the date anyway.

Last one Germany got from the US (some Ukrainian guy Demjanjuk, if memory serves) was so frail there were multiple issues with the trial. It's kind of hard to go through with that sort of trial involving evidence 70y in the past with most possible witnesses living in Israel, when doctors will allow only some 2 hours of trial at a piece.

What happened over here was he got released from pre-trial detention after 2 years and lived his life out in a old-age home. Was convicted, went on appeal, died of natural causes while appeal was pending. Hence, conviction didn't stick as in Germany you can't try dead persons and by virtue of that appeal the trial wasn't over. Read: died without conviction.

I am not sure whether to call it a big waste of money. It sure cost enormous amounts, those old-age home are around 3k € a month, all paid by the German state, extradition, legal aid etc. Probably saved the family a lot of money.

It's a very difficult decision. While it might be wrong to say: leave the poor old man alone, it's also not right to not put that sort of murderer to trial. But we are reaching a point here, where mundane justice becomes moot.

It's a difficult trial anyway, as they have to prove he was involved in cruelties and killings, and secondly, he was not coerced to do so as a "Hilfswilliger" i.e. s.o. "wanting to help" (an official euphemism) to save his own skin. And if so, what his actual conduct was... after some 70 years. I do personally not believe you can try s.o for what he did as a 15 or 16-y-o, given the circumstances.

Whatever happens, I cannot see him go to a German prison. Unlike in the US, people normally don't die in prisons over here. Obviously happens, when s.o. dies of some health complication, but normally he'd get chucked out to an old-age home first.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[NeverSure]

So, because he's old and it was 70 odd years ago he should be left alone in the USA in his digs in Pennsylvania? Just live a nice American retirement life?

A lot of American pilots and soldiers died fighting Hitler in Europe and a lot more than that were wounded. My dad was wounded.

Their kids and grandkids have*not*forgotten.

[myluckythai]

too frail ???? my *ss. keep the bastard locked up in very poor conditions until he dies the death he deserves.....if it was up to me. No mercy because of old age or what not. They neverhad it so why should they receive it

[belg]

put him in prison and if he has a pension, give it to some jewish institute?

[TheFishman1]

The guy a Nazi need I say more sent him to Isreal

[Saradoc1972]

So, because he's old and it was 70 odd years ago he should be left alone in the USA in his digs in Pennsylvania? Just live a nice American retirement life?

A lot of American pilots and soldiers died fighting Hitler in Europe and a lot more than that were wounded. My dad was wounded.

Their kids and grandkids have*not*forgotten.

Guys, innocent until proven guilty, and in court at that.

There'll be no warrant to make his life miserable unto that time.

And nobody knows whether his remnants of life are "nice".

You realize that whatever he possibly, allegedly did "some 70 odd" years ago would make him barely adult at the time?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[sanuk711]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

[TheFishman1]

The guy a Nazi lets not forget send him to Israel

[Robby nz]

How long does it take to move on from these things ?

Yea my old man was involved also, had 3 ships torpedoed out from under him and still managed to survive

But what's the point of it, what does it prove going after them till the last one has died off, you might call it justice but is it just some sort of revenge ?

Here we have someone who was a teenager at the time and no doubt only doing what he was ordered to do and now it looks like he will be chased to the grave.

And why if they are still after individuals is the same hate, yes hate and thirst for revenge not still there for Germany and Japan even ?

Oh yes, money of course.

Go take a walk around the war cemetery at Kanchanaburi, then the railway museum and along the rail bed at Hellfire Pass then get back in your Japanese made car...................If you had not moved on you wouldn't be driving it.

[Saradoc1972]

Was 20 at the end of WW2 and already tried from involvement by another judge in the 1990's. But that failed when the judge ruled he was a natural-born citizen through his mother and was coerced into joining the SS as a minor.

In the US, you can't be tried for the same crime twice. That will stall extradition.

Would depend on whether extradition and revocation of citizenship is a criminal or administrative procedure.

Anglo-Saxon countries have some sort of "jus loci" or "ius soli" to determine whether s.o. is a citizen by birth, as opposed to "ius sanguinis" in the Germanic legal sphere.

You'd have to fill me in on this, it totally escapes my expertise.

[NeverSure]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

Americans know a lot about their history. Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into the European theater due to the continual begging of Churchill. First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.

Why should Americans have gone to Europe? Are they the world's police as ungrateful Europeans like to call them? They went because the allies needed help, and you denigrate the 100,000 of them who's bodies were never repatriated.

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk.

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much.

[siampolee]

Just how many Nazi sympathizers were allowed to enter the U.S A due to their expertise within the then fledgling aerospace industry Wernher_ Von_ Braun to name but one.

Strange how one person irrespective of his actions associations and involvement in slave labour use is or was lauded but a lowly 89 year old guard is to be hounded to death.

Dual standards ?

No.

Surely Wernher_ Von_ Brauns passage to a life of privilege and comfort and non trial was not based upon an intellectual privilege and political and military power ideal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

[Baerboxer]

They'll have to keep him in solitary under protective custody. Americans, even prisoners, hate those guys. Someone would stick him with a shiv in the shower.

I always thought it was a truism That Americans know little about their own history.

I am sure he ( The Ex Auschwitz guard) will be much at home in a prison population where the largest single white group is the Aryan Brotherhood-- The American Nazi party, (The Bund / Aryan brothers etc ) has a Long history in the USA---far from being hated, some of their prominent folk heroes were connected closely with it, right up until America was dragged kicking and screaming into the war.

Americans know a lot about their history. Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into the European theater due to the continual begging of Churchill. First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.

Why should Americans have gone to Europe? Are they the world's police as ungrateful Europeans like to call them? They went because the allies needed help, and you denigrate the 100,000 of them who's bodies were never repatriated.

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk.

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much.

I don't disagree with your sentiments - but you need to brush up on your history. Roosevelt recognized the Nazi threat very early on and knew, that despite the counter arguments of people like Kennedy snr., America would have to fight them at some point, if the French and British didn't beat them. He supplied equipment and as much help as possible. There is no doubt the half American Churchill played him as much as he could, but Roosevelt was as clever, if not more so.

Were the Japanese carrier's really pursued, caught and sunk after Pear Harbor? Maybe the battle of Midway is worth reading about.

Many Americans didn't wait and went and fought in Europe before their country was at war. On becoming embroiled many very brave Americans gave their lives, as did many allied service people. The point is that the Americans and British, in particular, hate injustice and tyranny, and were prepared to make the ultimate sacrifices.

Germany and the German people recognized the evils of Nazism and made strenuous efforts to make sure it never happens again. They tried to bring criminals to justice and have strict laws regarding Nazi symbolism and doctrine. The fact they are pursing this ex SS guard after so many years shows their commitment and also their understanding that Nazism isn't completely eradicated.

On the other hand what has Japan done. Refuses to acknowledge its appalling war crimes - Nanking, mass rape and murder, ethnic killings, grand larceny, and the brutal exploitation and murder of POW's. Japan is not contrite, does not teach its children the real history and has never made any efforts to recognize its appalling behavior. Japan has never pursued its war criminals.

Some posters say move on. Others say don't forger. Whatever - but it should not be the double standard that perpetuates to this day.

[sanuk711]

America went all in after Pearl Harbor, so fast and hard that the Japanese carriers never made it back. They were caught and sunk--NS

I am sorry neverSure, but you seem to have been watching to many John Wayne movies-- The Americans did not race after the Japanese fleet & sink them-- out of the main attack force --Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku and Zuikaku,

Most of that force was sunk half way through the next year, in the Midway battle. If you are trying to cloud the issue by saying they didn't go back to Japan, no you do not go home when you are in a war, you stay in the theater, they did go to many other places for refueling/resupply/re-crew etc. but battleships at war don't stay at home. I think everyone understands that that Pearl Harbor was a Japanese major tactical victory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor Just as Dunkirk was a major defeat for the British.

First they reluctantly gave ships, then other arms, and then the went all in.--NS

You never gave Britten any ships or arms, until you were attacked & at war yourself--up until then, these were sold to Britten & the debt was so high it was only paid off in December 2006 in the last of 50 payments of US$22.7m http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stm

As well as selling Arms to Britten the USA was also selling arms to Germany.

From-Sept 1939 until Germany declared war on the USA on Dec 9th 1941- note, not the other way round - there was no American Trade Embargo.
US companies such as DuPont, General Motors, Ford, Lockheed, Standard Oil, to name but a few, were deeply involved in the Nazi economy.
Ball bearing machines, synthetic oil, Zyklon B, scrap metals - turned into weapons and munitions - etc., etc., were all created with the involvement of, and or sold to Germany by, US companies.
After the war, many German companies survived because of US investments that dated from before the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_against_the_United_States_%281941%29

And if you think that the children and grandchildren of the hundreds of thousands of US troops who were killed or wounded in Europe don't remember, then you just don't know much--NS

I don't even know why that statement is in there NeverSure...Other then to cloud up the whole issue & make it a them & us thing---please do not do that--Everyone who fought in the war, were brave-on all sides, But its not enough to just remember them NeverSure, To remember why?how it happened would be better for the following generations.

Edited June 19, 2014 by sanuk711

[MILT]

In the case of Genocide I believe frailty and fragility don't mean sh*t! Those deaths were caused in a great part to a dark ideology.

This person stood guard and support for the scientific extermination of a race of people.

[Morch]

He'll probably 'stand trial' in Israel where they don't piss about with vermin.

Weren't that many up on trial to make such a statement.

While Eichmann was convicted and executed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann , Demjanjuk was released and the following trial was taken up by German authorities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk

Both trials were pretty lengthy, and at least in Demjanjuk's case had a lot of technicalities and side issues raised.

[pkspeaker]

utterly absurd going after these poor old guys.. none of the <deleted> prosecuting these men were alive during wwii so they have no idea what it was like.. if these guys refused military service and orders-they would have been shot dead on the spot, you think your gonna cry conscious objector to the nazi's? all the people supporting this crap would have done the same thing-they would not have taken a bullet in the head because 'bad things' were going on in the prison camp that they were guarding, would someone who piks on an old war veteran have so much courage-doubtful.

also lets not forget that the nazi death camps didn't get into final solution mode until after the US gained air-superiority and started carpet bombing German held territories, there were food shortages in the major cities and most of the deaths in the concentration camps were caused by disease and starvation. Robert McNamera once said that if the US had lost the war "we would have all been tried as war criminals"-referring to the fire bombing of tokyo ,the atomic bombings, and bombings of German civilians areas..

[vogie]

Leave the old man alone??? So if someone does some horrible crimes and doesn't get caught before a certain age, we should just ' leave them alone'

And obviously Germany has good enough evidence for an arrest warrant, not just something they heard from someone one time

Maybe if he had killed your family you might not want the "certain age" rule, a crime is a crime no matter how long ago it was committed

[transam]

So, because he's old and it was 70 odd years ago he should be left alone in the USA in his digs in Pennsylvania? Just live a nice American retirement life?

A lot of American pilots and soldiers died fighting Hitler in Europe and a lot more than that were wounded. My dad was wounded.

Their kids and grandkids have*not*forgotten.

My dads injuries ruined my life, my mum was bombed out of two houses.

Never forget.