Problem with childs permanent visa to Australia

[wazzi]

Hi Guys,

I am posting this on behalf of a friend, who hopes someone on here may have encountered the same problem, Which I beleive would not be that unusual in Thailand.

My friend is an Aussie and successfully got a fioncee visa for his Thai girlfriend, They married here in Aus and submitted the permanent paperwork which was granted. She now has Temporary resident status untill the two years is up. All was very simple and straight forward.

Now things are going well they wish to bring her 4 year old son ( from a previous relationship ) to Australia permanently, The mother has sole custody of the child and he lives with her parents in Thailand. They did all the paperwork including tracking down the childs father and got him to sign giving his consent to the child leaving, however he refused to give them a copy of his ID card for the application. Everything was submitted last December and now after lots of chasing up , they have been told by the Aus embassy in Bangkok, that without the childs fathers Id card the application will not be approved. several conversations and emails have now occured trying to explain the situation they have got no where. finally when they asked their case officer what other steps could the carry out to replace the ID card , they were told, We cannot advise on this at all, it is up to you to submitt any other information you have.

Has anyone here experienced this or a similiar situation? is there a way around not having a copy of the Fathers ID card, they have suggested getting the police or village head man to talk to the father and verify that he signed the paperwork and agrees with the migration, but the case officer is not interested in that.

Anything that can help with their problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[ozsamurai]

Do it the Thai way, find the Dad pay him off for the copy of the ID and be done with it. Trying to butt your head up against red tape is going to make problems. Just get a hold of what you need by hook or crook. One may also ask why the immigration wasn't done at the same time, but......

Oz

[Surin13]

The case officer does not make the decision on the visa, their job is to make sure the application and all the information is there for the decision to be made by the delegated decision maker.

That being said, they (the case officer) will tell you its a requirement, its not actually. The requirement is that the department ensures that allowing a child to migrate is not in contravention of Australia’s international obligations in relation to the prevention of child abduction. If the application includes a child under 18 years of age and the child’s other parent is not migrating, the non-migrating parent should provide evidence that consents to where the child is to live and to the grant of the migration visa.

That is the requirement, and the signed statement/form 1229 with a copy of the ID is an easy way to show this.

So if you can't get the ID, get as much evidence/statements as to how you have tried to get a copy,and any supporting evidence that helps the delegated decision maker tick off the requirement above.

Don't take the above lightly, get as much as possible to show the steps you have taken, eg. statements from the fathers family saying he agrees with the visa, local police, the village headman etc.

or try as ozsamurai has suggested, which may be the easiest way, in the long run.

[David48]

Solid advice above.

One the straight way, the other, a practical way.

In Thailand, even though it goes against our grain ... the 'practical way' is also usually the quickest.

[Surin13]

One may also ask why the immigration wasn't done at the same time, but......

Just to give a possible answer to this,

Its not a bad way to do it if you think you will have problems getting consent/custody from the other parent of the child. As if the child is included on the parents/partners application and you can't meet the requirement about consent/custody of the child and the visa for the child is denied, the parents/partner visa will also automatically be denied, as its one visa application.

Two separate applications are treated as such, and don't affect each other.

[David48]

wazzi ... may I ask a slightly off topic question.

Could you ask your friend the way she got her Thai Police clearance in Australia?

I'm putting together a 'How to' guide for a Partner Visa and we just got ours done in Thailand, so I have no experience of obtaining it from Australia.

If you can ... thanks

.

[simple1]

The case officer does not make the decision on the visa, their job is to make sure the application and all the information is there for the decision to be made by the delegated decision maker.

That being said, they (the case officer) will tell you its a requirement, its not actually. The requirement is that the department ensures that allowing a child to migrate is not in contravention of Australia’s international obligations in relation to the prevention of child abduction. If the application includes a child under 18 years of age and the child’s other parent is not migrating, the non-migrating parent should provide evidence that consents to where the child is to live and to the grant of the migration visa.

That is the requirement, and the signed statement/form 1229 with a copy of the ID is an easy way to show this.

So if you can't get the ID, get as much evidence/statements as to how you have tried to get a copy,and any supporting evidence that helps the delegated decision maker tick off the requirement above.

Don't take the above lightly, get as much as possible to show the steps you have taken, eg. statements from the fathers family saying he agrees with the visa, local police, the village headman etc.

or try as ozsamurai has suggested, which may be the easiest way, in the long run.

I cannot locate, but there use to be a process that outlines the requirements if you cannot obtain the permission of one of the child's parents, apparently fairly common issue.

OP: Try again contacting Immigration staff located at the Embassy, or send an email to ascertain the current requirement / legal workaround

EDIT: Not 100% sure, but is obtaining a Por Kor 14 the solution?

Edited June 23, 2014 by simple1

[Surin13]

wazzi ... may I ask a slightly off topic question.

Could you ask your friend the way she got her Thai Police clearance in Australia?

I'm putting together a 'How to' guide for a Partner Visa and we just got ours done in Thailand, so I have no experience of obtaining it from Australia.

If you can ... thanks

.

I know you asked wazzi, but I can offer some information

You can get the Thai police clearance if the person if not living in Thailand via post, but the Thai Embassy in Canberra or any consulates can do it for you.

Here is a link to the requirements from the Thai Embassy Australia: Thai Police Clearance Certificate some of the consulates have guides also.

Fingerprints generally can be taken though your local police service, most state police forces have fingerprint/police clearance section that can take them for you.

[wazzi]

Thanks guys, And yes they have considered offering money , around 10000Thbt.

David, The partner visa was submitted in Bangkok, so the police clearance was done there, The same as ours and I assume your wifes.

As they weren't married it was originally a Fiancee visa but exactly the same paperwork as a partner visa. Once married in Aus you reapply for the full partner visa.

Cheers W.

[Surin13]

EDIT: Not 100% sure, but is obtaining a Por Kor 14 the solution?

Yes, no, maybe, is that clear enough for you

I outlined the requirement the Australian government has to meet under policy above, the case officers and the embassy will tell you that the Por Kor 14 isn't enough, that you need permission from the other parent,this isn't 100% correct.

The grey area comes from the fact that Thai and Australian law conflict in this area, under Thai law the if the mother has a Por Kor 14, she has sole custody of the child and the father isn't recognized under Thai law as the legitimate father and has no say/control/rights over the child and the mother can take the child anywhere she wants (a Por Kor 14 is what is required for a Thai passport in the same situation). This is polar opposite to Australia law where the father rights over the child no matter what the marriage situation is with the parents.

A Por Kor 14 should be enough to get a visa, as it meets the requirements, but its not nice and clear cut like getting the permission of the other parent,and immigration likes the easy clear cut cases.

Immigration wants everything lined up to make the easy decision, which is why I said about getting statements/further evidence to back up what you have done as it makes the decision easier for them.

That been said, if its too hard a decision for them, they may rejecting the application knowing that the decision will be overturned in the MRT, thus putting the hard decision on to another government body, and making you wait another 12mths + to get to the MRT.

Going to the MRT is not a big deal for them, but a long and costly process for the applicant.

For further reading on the subject, research visa applications from Ireland and Scotland from a few years ago, as they had at that time similar laws to Thailand in regards to unmarried mothers and there is a lot of information on the subject.

.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Surin13

[David48]

Wazzi ... mate come back and tell us what was decided.

We all learn from your experiences ...

[wazzi]

David,

Still in progress, they have spoken to a Thai Lawyer who is in contact with the paternal grandfather to convince his son to do the right thing, with a financial sweetner to help smooth things over.

I will certainly let the forum know the outcome.