The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner

[Robert24]

I think Prayuth and his team are smart enough to maintain good relations with the EU and US for economic purposes such that the Thai economy doesn't suffer. I don't think Thailand is cornered or under pressure as the article may suggest. However the US should be smarter than stopping military exercises with Thailand. Thailand is a strategic important partner for the US from a geopolitical point of view. Now with the action from the US army to stop joint exercises, they have opened the door for the Chinese to closer cooperate with Thailand from a military point of view. Clearly not something the US want. Hope the US foreign policy has more foresight in future.

Of course the US know exactly what's going on in Thailand, and probably approve too. What is it, the 18th coup in 80 years? It's just more of the same. Here we go again in the LOS. Have you not read the MacGregor Marshall book? They know more than we do. But the bastion of democracy can't be seen to be approving of a military coup. Not in front of the populace. A few pro-democracy anti-coup declarations for good measure and a few cancelled military exercises for a good look and then it's back to business as usual.

thanks for your response shadmo. I agree that at the moment the US are only making declarations, no actions so far. But they have missed an opportunity with the leadership change to improve relations, both economically and military, instead the US have opted to publically shame the new leadership of Thailand. By doing so, they have closed a door for closer military cooperation with Thailand and opened a door for China to work closer with Thailand. Now with the new pivot of Asia in the US foreign policy, wouldn't you think it would be smarter to have Thailand as an ally similar to the Philippines, Singapore, Japan in Asia rather than one that prefers to operate closer with China in the future? This is what I referred to as lack of foresight in US foreign policy. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the US army and it's superior military capabilities which are by far unmatched, but from what I see intelligence, making the right conclusion from intelligence, acting upon them and having a sound foreign policy seems not be a strength of the US. This case with Thailand is only a small one, not really important one we witness, but you can see many others from Lybia to Egypt, the Benghazi attack, the WMD case in Iraq, the destruction of the former army, police and government in Iraq and now the subsequent formation of the ISIS terrorist regime in Iraq, the sanctions on Iran previously and now asking Iran to help fight the ISIS group in Iraq, the Crimea/Ukraine issue, the chemical weapons and war in Syria, etc etc. I just hope in future the US would demonstrate more foresight in their foreign policy.

[hawker9000]

Thailand gets what Thailand deserves..... always has and always will.

Well you could say that for any country really. For example, look at all those reckless countries in the Euro, England included, years of reckless policy and spending, one could argue they got exactly what they deserve. Sadly its always the working class citizens that suffer at the hands of incompetent foolish pollies.

Same world over.

...who get elected by the working class citizens...

Yep, that's right Hawker, I'm aware of how it works. Sometimes, the people have to pick what they think might be the best turkey, sometimes it works out for them other times it doesn't.

Occasionally, a good one comes along, he/she doesn't always get to where one would hope he or she gets to. Pollies bandy together and look out for competence, then they white ant it.

Socialism/"progressivism" never pays its way and never keeps a promise; not in the long run. NEVER. Yet it's what the "working class" get duped into buying, over & over & over again. They suck it up every time. The speechmaker says social consciousness and redistribution of wealth; the voter gets elitism. In Thailand it's called the PTP or Thaksinism. Socialism & elitism: two different words for the exact same thing.

[timewilltell]

Never read so much crap in a long time. Unfortunately the OP is a reflection of the misplaced importance that Thai people have of themselves. Really a rather insignificant country yet puffed up like a puffer fish - all talk no substance.

As for the West - of course they have to object to the coup and a military dictatorship. As for sanctions and hurting Thailand that I hear so many Thais I am in contact with complaining about, what sanctions? How is the a West hurting Thailand?

About the only thing to gave happened is a few million in military aid that will have about as much impact as a fallen leaf in Autumn. As for the EU stopping a few bureaucratic junkets - even less effect and might even safe Thailand and the EU some money on unnecessary trips for ignorant bureaucrats.

Add to that the likliehood that neither the US nor the EU really gave a clue as to what us going on here and don't really care as long as the place stays militarily accessible, and all you gave is a lot of hot air once again.

The Thai response to nothingness is a huge proud 'We are the best and we are going to show the rest of the world!' Please stop the bull - you are insignificant but maybe you don't know it.

The politicians here and in the West are busy plumping themselves up yet really are just a waste of space. The General is busy putting things to rights and beginning to tackle and expose corruption so I know who I think is the more effective. There is a long way to go and I hope that somehow the laws and justice system can be overhauled to counter and change the mindset here and educate people as to what is right and wrong because so many 'big' people seem to have utterly twisted morals.

For the time being the coup should be heralded for the good it is doing. In time will come the need to move back to a more democratic system and the General has iterated this on several occasions. Give him time and support to clean up what is possible and wish all Thais the best of fortune in making Thailand really be as great as most Thais believe it is - there is a large disparity to close there!

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[shadmo63]

Thailand gets what Thailand deserves..... always has and always will.

Well you could say that for any country really. For example, look at all those reckless countries in the Euro, England included, years of reckless policy and spending, one could argue they got exactly what they deserve. Sadly its always the working class citizens that suffer at the hands of incompetent foolish pollies.

Same world over.

...who get elected by the working class citizens...

Yep, that's right Hawker, I'm aware of how it works. Sometimes, the people have to pick what they think might be the best turkey, sometimes it works out for them other times it doesn't.

Occasionally, a good one comes along, he/she doesn't always get to where one would hope he or she gets to. Pollies bandy together and look out for competence, then they white ant it.

Socialism/"progressivism" never pays its way and never keeps a promise; not in the long run. NEVER. Yet it's what the "working class" get duped into buying, over & over & over again. They suck it up every time. The speechmaker says social consciousness and redistribution of wealth; the voter gets elitism. In Thailand it's called the PTP or Thaksinism. Socialism & elitism: two different words for the exact same thing.

I know its a waste of time lecturing people on their political viewpoints - they seem to be hard wired into us. I have never ever seen anyone change their political standpoint because someone proved an argument to them. Having said that.....

It's funny how right wing Americans love to put their one eyed slant on the evils of 'socialism'. It's just not a word we use in the rest of the western world. There are so many varieties of socialism how can you brand them all as bad? On the whole the rest of the western world have education and health systems that look after EACH and EVERY citizen, at least to some degree. Funny how both education and medical costs are higher in the US than pretty much any where else on the planet. Also on the whole all sides of politics support these systems - not just what you call the 'socialist' left. Your GOP is just way way to the right of the rest of the planet. In Australia our right wing party (ironically called the 'Liberals') are probably no further right wing than Obama. In Australia we have a great health and education system, superior to the US in most measures of quality. But disgusting to you cause it's what you call 'socialised'. Just so you know we have complete freedom to choose private schooling and private health care if we can afford it.

I really find it hard to equate socialism with elitism too, no matter now hard I think about it. They seem to me to be almost opposite. No doubt you have an argument to help me there.

So Thaksinism and PTP stand for 'socialism' too. The Thai political system doesn't seem to based on the left/right dichotomy we are used to. But it appeals to your simple left is bad, right is good mindset. Good luck to the worlds mindless working class.

[Thai at Heart]

Unfortunately this article is true that the West has started putting pressure on Thailand..

I mentioned the other day in a post with he US's report on Human Trafficking & downgrading Thailand to Tier 3 then EU saying sanctions it was obvious that these were connected.

Of course there will be posters here that will say Thailand is a crybaby,more Thainess,out of touch that the West couldn't care less about insignificant Thailand....but one wonders who the real crybabies are?

Thailand is sticking up for itself...

The West needs Thailand...not for trade....for regional access for their military power.

The West can go on about their moral high ground...but they are bullies......

They are "Exceptional" Thailand isn't.

CP needs america and CP gets Thai governments to give it what CP needs.

The trafficking will get under control because CP cannot make its money targets without shrimp sales.

[3NUMBAS]

i.m sure william hague is biting his pillow at night with worry at his loss of prawns for his curry

[Strangebrew]

Ok to be correct or at least my personnel position on this is I'm here for the weather,food, cheap living, Women, and Beaches. The women part is because I happen to love Asian women. I don't like some of my former home's policies, but even with that being said I vote my choice. I also don't have to pay for Obamacare living here. But when it comes to way Thai's run Thailand none of my business so I stay out of there way of doing things, But being free I can either stay or go.

[city]

Actually, I would read Into this further.

Many Politicians around the world have seen the writing on the wall. The Thai military can do a better job of fixing it's own internal problems than what the Politicians can. Actually, a mess created by the politicians is being cleaned up by non politicians. Must be alarming for those fools as many of them could end up facing similar situations, one day In the future.

It's so amusing that half the countries on the list have more internal problems than you can point a stick at but their moronic leaders like to huff and puff their chests out and point in a different direction.

Really, the article should read, "Western douchebag Politicians get nervous".

All the army had to do was stop Suthep rom violence and protect the polling booths. But in Sutheps words. Hes been arranging this for years with the army

[city]

If the naysayers on this forum...( who I consider anti Thailand ) think Thailand should adhere to the West's superior wisdom I presume they mean that the Military should step down & elections should go ahead.

That's a brilliant idea .... I wonder who will get elected & everything will be better & back to normal?

Since the West is so wise .... what country have they interfered with...military direct or replacing the current government with a west leaning agenda through their many shadow terrorist groups have the support of it's people & not the support of the rich elite that can be bought?

I'm sure there is at least one but I can't think of one at the moment.

So would you say you broadly agree with the principle of the Army usurping a civilian government?

What amazes me about these coup cronies is that they keep saying reforms before elections. Ok. If PTP have the majority now what make anybody think they wont have the majority in 2 years. Vote buying is the trademark of the DEms (read my previous posts) so what reforms can they bring about. The only reforms you will see is the introduction of a system that stops the majority party having a voice in an elected government. Changing boundaries, stopping people without 12 years of education voting (mentioned by Singha heiress) 1 MP for each province, 400 appointed MPs not elected, a totally hand picked second chamber to block all changes etc. The populist bunf that we see everyday is a sugar coating, lets see the NCPO rating (last night 8.8 out of 10 pmsfl) get above 3.5 when this hits the fan

[razorramone]

In the West there is freedom of speech. The public, press, and politicians are free to give their opinions on any subject. I can see why that might be hard to comprehend for the Thai author.

[smedly]

In the West there is freedom of speech. The public, press, and politicians are free to give their opinions on any subject. I can see why that might be hard to comprehend for the Thai author.

That is not exactly true - freedom to say what you feel like is not a liberty and it can be violated depending on what you say - lets not get carried away here - there are boundaries enforced by law that cannot be crossed - it is pretty obvious that you just cannot say what you feel like saying

[chiang mai]

In the West there is freedom of speech. The public, press, and politicians are free to give their opinions on any subject. I can see why that might be hard to comprehend for the Thai author.

That is not exactly true - freedom to say what you feel like is not a liberty and it can be violated depending on what you say - lets not get carried away here - there are boundaries enforced by law that cannot be crossed - it is pretty obvious that you just cannot say what you feel like saying

Except on Speakers Corner, and doubtless elsewhere also.

[Prbkk]

Searing op-ed piece in today's New York Times: Leaning on Thailand's junta by Pavin Chachavalpongpun. Makes a very strong case for why Thailand should be extremely fearful of sanctions and drop the pathetic anti west rhetoric

[iphad]

Searing op-ed piece in today's New York Times: Leaning on Thailand's junta by Pavin Chachavalpongpun. Makes a very strong case for why Thailand should be extremely fearful of sanctions and drop the pathetic anti west rhetoric

It's only pathetic anti-west rhetoric if you believe the pathetic pro west rhetoric.

[EBlair48]

Gasp !! What.. access to the globe's brothel and the # 1 vacation choice of pedophiles might be curtailed? Oh nooooooooo

[Morch]

Searing op-ed piece in today's New York Times: Leaning on Thailand's junta by Pavin Chachavalpongpun. Makes a very strong case for why Thailand should be extremely fearful of sanctions and drop the pathetic anti west rhetoric

The last line of the article....was looking for one of them winking emoticons but didn't find it. Guess he really meant this then:

and help the Red Shirts and other anti-junta activists restore democracy in Thailand.

Red shirts....restore democracy....nope. Don't see the connection there.

[hawker9000]

In the West there is freedom of speech. The public, press, and politicians are free to give their opinions on any subject. I can see why that might be hard to comprehend for the Thai author.

...well, free to give your opinion if you don't mind attention from the IRS... 'Not British, but doesn't the UK have some pretty strict rules about what the government considers "hate" speech? Fewer & fewer places where one can speak out in public against Islam. Anti-gay speech can lose one one's employment... Freedom of speech has become a "relative" thing most everywhere, unfortunately.

[srsv1238]

Actually, I would read Into this further.

Many Politicians around the world have seen the writing on the wall. The Thai military can do a better job of fixing it's own internal problems than what the Politicians can. Actually, a mess created by the politicians is being cleaned up by non politicians. Must be alarming for those fools as many of them could end up facing similar situations, one day In the future.

It's so amusing that half the countries on the list have more internal problems than you can point a stick at but their moronic leaders like to huff and puff their chests out and point in a different direction.

Really, the article should read, "Western douchebag Politicians get nervous".

So the answer is... a military coup? 0have you read 1984? Is that legal in Thailand? So uneducated.

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[Thanet]

Misleading subject line - should be "Thailand is Forcing Itself into a Corner"

Blaming the rest of the world for its own bad behaviour is sheer nonsense.

More's the pity.

[Morch]

Misleading subject line - should be "Thailand is Forcing Itself into a Corner"

Blaming the rest of the world for its own bad behaviour is sheer nonsense.

More's the pity.

Or it could read "Editor holding certain views chooses to present them to the public".

I don't think there's any real crisis, or that channels are closed between the RTA and the USA.

[neverdie]

Actually, I would read Into this further.

Many Politicians around the world have seen the writing on the wall. The Thai military can do a better job of fixing it's own internal problems than what the Politicians can. Actually, a mess created by the politicians is being cleaned up by non politicians. Must be alarming for those fools as many of them could end up facing similar situations, one day In the future.

It's so amusing that half the countries on the list have more internal problems than you can point a stick at but their moronic leaders like to huff and puff their chests out and point in a different direction.

Really, the article should read, "Western douchebag Politicians get nervous".

So the answer is... a military coup? 0have you read 1984? Is that legal in Thailand? So uneducated.

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Who exactly are you staring down the end of your ugly nose at?

[bim]

The US and others are Hypocrits. They have long allies with many non democratic countries including many in the middle east. The US have been behind the overthrow of more than 50 democracies since the 40s. They need to keep there nose out

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[hawker9000]

And back in 2008, and then again in 2012 (by which time you'd have thought the truth would have begun to sink in...), everyone (and I don't mean just American voters) thought it was ALL going to be SOOOOO different! Oh, I reckon in the run-up to 2016 we're going to be hearing it yet again...in stridently reassuring feminine tones this time... And around the world they'll still believe and be telling us who we should elect.

[The Deerhunter]

Looking through the countries on the list, it's just the usual suspects, USA and it's main allies, which is comical and what one would usually expect.

Seriously, how can the USA lecture anyone on the issue of fair elections. This is a country that laughs in the face of true democracy by allowing their whole election process to be manipulated by money, powerful

co-operations and hidden secrets.

The arrogance of certain western nations is overwhelming.

showing the neroistic Thaksin syndrom? Oh forgot, he's the adopted and groomed child of the 1%. To add on necrotic for the West in the analysis, this is a typical response pattern in that stage.

Was that written by a lorem ipsum generator?

nero fiddledd while Rome was burning, - so I created neroistic

necrotic for example

as someone described his preferred version of necrotic -

I prefer the term necrotic pustular basket of cowards, cheats, thieves, swindlers, con-artists, <deleted> lying bastards, child abusers and war criminals.

the original meaning in medical terms

necrotic

necrotic adjective Dead; referring to death of cells or tissues.

Nah. Still Lorem ipsum to me, Mr Wealth. "Oh forgot, he's the adopted and groomed child of the 1%" So, who & what is that all about? Try typing plain English. Write for me, the lowest common demoninator (if you like), to understand. Or don't bother posting.

[The Deerhunter]

General Prayuth seems to be be a smart guy, he's kept the power post coup and having absolute power, can go for many jugulars, especially corrupt officials', which would be impossible in normal times.

This will win him everlasting praise from the population if he can do it and, most importantly can show the junta itself to be clean.

I saw the army sorting out the queues for the vans the other day, one of my friends said once the army is gone the mafia will be back again. This is one challenge- to make lasting changes to the justice system- real punishment and real enforcement of laws.

good luck to him.

Noise from the EU means nothing, they couldn't even prevent a war in their own backyard- Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia until the Americans finally intervened.

How does that old adage about absolute power go?

We saw how that went. That is why we had to have a coup.

[The Deerhunter]

Come on guys, Suthep's revelation has exposed that this was a deliberate act and all the build-up to the eventual day was a calculated move. So throw out the feel good reasons of stopping a civil war, breaking the political impasse, economic ruin etc etc. Every coup in the past was never a spontaneous reaction but a carefully crafted plan. Insantity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result; how true.

Sure about that? Prayuth is changing things into a more orderly system left, right and center. Get lost in those ancient caves in Udon somewhere? I recommend a guide next time so you don't lose your way out. Hahaha.

More like Prayuth is ordering things to a system laid out by the establishment with guidance from Suthep. Maybe it is you that is lost and blinkered by your ability or reluctance to face the truth.

Lost & Blinkered. Eric Loh. TVF & Isaan World champion in his own lunch time of "Lost & Blinkered,"

[JockPieandBeans]

i.m sure william hague is biting his pillow at night with worry at his loss of prawns for his curry

I don't think prawns are anything to do with his pillow biting !!

[JockPieandBeans]

In the West there is freedom of speech. The public, press, and politicians are free to give their opinions on any subject. I can see why that might be hard to comprehend for the Thai author.

There is freedom of speech if it suits the establishment.

Politicians are free to give their opinions if it toes the party line. Which is not the same as their personal opinion.

As a law abiding member of the public, go air your opinion on any mad mullah, who happens to preach hate, and see how free you are, free ride in a cop car to the nearest nick.

The West, that great bastion of Democracy, stick it where the sun don't shine.