Police Say Anti-American Protest Not Violation of Martial Law

[Morch]

well I hope the US government gets upset & pulls out of Thailand...

oh by the way they can pack up the CIA "black site" they have here that they been having some"enhanced interrogation" interviews with some prisoners without a trial or any human rights,

but maybe the Thai military shut that down already.

555 CIA black site, don't tell me your'e ex CIA, time for your tablets...

from the book "Dirty Wars The World is a Battlefield" by Jeremy Cahill......... page 26 published 2013

"The CIA would build up up it's own secret "black sites" in at least 8 countries, including Thailand,Poland,Romania,Mauritania,,Lithuania and Diego Garcia..............prisoners could be freely tortured without any messy congressional inquiries."

I am not CIA ...but if you are suggesting the US hasn't tortured suspected "terrorists" with no trial or human rights...

then maybe it's time for your tablets.

It is interesting that the US used Thailand & a good chance there are CIA working in Thailand right now

And wouldn't that be more of an issue to be taken with host countries?

If such a facility was operating within Thailand, it would have been with local authorities knowledge and consent.

Of course, some countries have no need to carry on this practices outside of their borders.

[rickirs]

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Perhaps Thailand can heal its internal conflict and find unity to move forward in a common cause--and it seems the US has provided the catalyst by their meddling.

So America should not have laws that forbid it from providing material support to undemocratically elected governments? Or, is it expected to make a special case for Thailand?

Or are you speaking of the TIP trafficking report- that should be ignored, too?

So Thailand should not be held to the same standards as other nations? Well, I can almost agree with that as no way can it ever achieve that with a largely uneducated populace as its core, which is quite deliberate.

Were these laws in place around the time of Pinochet or Saddam's rise?

The law you are referring to is the Foreign Aid Act of 1961 which provides that no assistance shall be provided to a government that:

"engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, including torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, or other flagrant denial of the right to life, liberty, and the security of person, unless such assistance will directly benefit the needy people in such country.”

With limited exceptions, no US foreign aid may flow to "any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup d'etat or decree or ... a coup d'etat in which the military plays a decisive role."

The law's focus on "military coup" may explain why Gen. Prayuth wants to portray his overthrow of the democratically-elected Thai government as an “interdiction” rather than as “coup.” The military is no doubt well aware of FAA.

In the case of Marxist Salvador Allende's election in the 1970 Chilean elections during the USSR-US Cold War era, US President Nixon actually promoted a military coup to block the rise of communism in South America and subsequently, increased foreign aid to that country after the coup. Similarily, the US provided military aid in the form of credits for weapons purchases and intelligence to Sadaam in his war with US nemisis Iran until Sadaam invaded Kuwait in August 1990. Obama administration refused to label the 2013 Egyptian military coup as a coup, instead taking care to refer to it as a “popular uprising” considering the anti-government protests by millions of Egyptians against President Morsi who had with support of the Muslim Brotherhood dominated-parliament given himself sole power to create legislation without review or challenge.

So the essence of FAA was not a purely humantairan act with the US acting as the social conscious for the world (what country could bear that burden) but rather as the advancement of democracy and respect for human rights that is essential to U.S. national security.

So in the case of Thailand, the US has cut immediate aid in compliance with US law but ultimately must weigh its short-term foreign policy goals against its long-term goals as relates to US national security. If Thailand does not move quickly towards a free and open democratically-elected government as the sole legislative power of the country that will guarantee human rights, the US short-term goals will become its long-term goal and view Thailand as a political antagonist.

[Beetlejuice]

Khun Thep is right.

The Americans should first get their own house in order before criticising the actions and systems of other countries and keep their noses out of it because they have absolutely no idea what is best for Thailand or most other countries, not even their own.

America with it`s diabolical history of extreme abuses of human rights, genocide, racial apartheid, slavers, reluctance to enter both world worlds, refused to allow in thousands of Jews during WW2 in which many were sent back to Europe to be murdered, probably the most crime ridden and most dangerous place on Earth where it is considered every American citizens right to carry a gun, and not forgetting that 620,000 lives could have been saved if a third party had intervened during the American civil war when they fought against their own people and own relatives.

This really is the pot calling the kettle black by these self appointed world police that believe only the American way is the right way and I am saying this as an American citizen myself.

[baboon]

"The lone protester, Thep Vetchavisit, said he was there to voice his anger towards the US government for downgrading its military relations with Thailand..."

The Mouse That Roared

Great book! Will they declare war next?

It wouldn't be the first time...

[rethaier]

Perhaps Thailand can heal its internal conflict and find unity to move forward in a common cause--and it seems the US has provided the catalyst by their meddling.

So America should not have laws that forbid it from providing material support to undemocratically elected governments? Or, is it expected to make a special case for Thailand?

Or are you speaking of the TIP trafficking report- that should be ignored, too?

So Thailand should not be held to the same standards as other nations? Well, I can almost agree with that as no way can it ever achieve that with a largely uneducated populace as its core, which is quite deliberate.

Would any commercial business cut off ties with a customer just because they don't like he way he does business? As long as human rights are not being abused by the government what's the problem. What right does the US or it's minions have to impose it's beliefs, and might I add flagging standards, on others. It sounds like a typical case of "my way or the highway". The self righteous attitudes of the government of the yanks and Australians just piss me off.

[Morch]

Perhaps Thailand can heal its internal conflict and find unity to move forward in a common cause--and it seems the US has provided the catalyst by their meddling.

So America should not have laws that forbid it from providing material support to undemocratically elected governments? Or, is it expected to make a special case for Thailand?

Or are you speaking of the TIP trafficking report- that should be ignored, too?

So Thailand should not be held to the same standards as other nations? Well, I can almost agree with that as no way can it ever achieve that with a largely uneducated populace as its core, which is quite deliberate.

Would any commercial business cut off ties with a customer just because they don't like he way he does business? As long as human rights are not being abused by the government what's the problem. What right does the US or it's minions have to impose it's beliefs, and might I add flagging standards, on others. It sounds like a typical case of "my way or the highway". The self righteous attitudes of the government of the yanks and Australians just piss me off.

Some commercial businesses do cut off ties with customers because they do not approve or support certain aspects.

The way the USA chooses to see it (rightly or not, that's another issue) there were violations of human rights (again,

it can be argued that they USA's definition is too broad, too invasive or whatever).

The USA does not quite impose anything - Thailand is free to act as it decides. The USA basically outlined certain

possible consequences of these choices.

Is it applying pressure? Yes. Is it within the legitimate use of diplomatic relationship? Yes. Is it outright intervention? No.

[ggt]

The poll also claimed that fewer than 4% of respondents view the US as "trustworthy."

This same poll also claimed that 0% of Thais view other Thais as "trustworthy"...

[Benmart]

Easy reading and on to the next.

[Baerboxer]

Perhaps Thailand can heal its internal conflict and find unity to move forward in a common cause--and it seems the US has provided the catalyst by their meddling.

So America should not have laws that forbid it from providing material support to undemocratically elected governments? Or, is it expected to make a special case for Thailand?

Or are you speaking of the TIP trafficking report- that should be ignored, too?

So Thailand should not be held to the same standards as other nations? Well, I can almost agree with that as no way can it ever achieve that with a largely uneducated populace as its core, which is quite deliberate.

America was happy to support the overthrow of democratic elected governments in Egypt and Ukraine as is didn't like their polices. Double standards - you decide?

The Obama regime is abiding by US laws as you say. Although he doesn't seem to be eager or draconian in their implementation.

Thailand is not the only country that keeps large amounts of its populace educated and limits their opportunities. Yet, we keep on insisting to apply Western democracy standards to them as if they do.

It's America, and any other nations choice as to who they give aid and help and friendship too.

[kingalfred]

Called Hypocrisy, something the country is very good at

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kingalfred]

The poll also claimed that fewer than 4% of respondents view the US as "trustworthy."

This same poll also claimed that 0% of Thais view other Thais as "trustworthy"...

Dont need a poll for that , see it in action everyday

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[beechguy]

The poll also claimed that fewer than 4% of respondents view the US as "trustworthy."

This same poll also claimed that 0% of Thais view other Thais as "trustworthy"...

Probably not many more than 4% of U.S. citizens consider the U.S. Government trustworthy.

[dwcrist]

This protest is not illegal because it is not protesting anything regarding the actions of Thai politics, only US, which is fine. Also because this protest is aligned with the political goals of those currently in power.

[belg]

ah, make the people happy

let them protest, but just not against US

so find a scapegoat

hub of scapegoats, worked well in the past, present & future

[John1thru10]

The world cannot intellgently be reduced to a twitter-meme. I know this is shocking to people who attempt to define themselves by their activism. But if the international community was voicing support for the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party, based only on what those forces 'claim' to represent, and not what they actually did in the U.S. - I would think it very upsetting. The fact is, the last PM had strong similarities to the Tea Party. The Koch Brothers within the U.S., with the help of monied powers like Rupert Murdoch, have shown their ability to get their goonsquad of uneducated, nationalistic politicians into office in the U.S., and the results have been devastating to the U.S. (and world) economy. Because although they 'claim' to represent the people, the 'real Americans' in their speeches, what they really represent is just more deep seeded corruption.

The Tea Party, for example, claims to advance small government, be of and for the people, a 'grass roots' movement' - and it is none of those things at all, being fully funded by large Oil concerns, and relies on bribery, and deception, in order to see the majority of U.S. income go straight to the top at the expense of the poor and middle class, all while claiming to represent the 'little man'. That is the propaganda used to manipulate voters, and this is the kind of propanganda which plays well on twitter for young activists in the U.S. These (perhaps well meaning) people from the west think they are involved in the next Arab Springs, when in fact this situation is very different.

This coup can hardly be described as violent, compared to what was taking hold, or other coups in the past, or compared to events like Arab Springs. How I wish the militarized police force in the U.S behaved as well, frankly. 2 weeks ago, was a minor story in the U.S. about police bursting down the door (of the wrong house!) and throwing a flash-grenade into the crib of a sleeping baby without looking - not even so much as an apology afterwards. That's just one of more stories than a person could count each week in the U.S. I also read thousands of people in the U.S. attempt to speak out against the corruption and misleading information from voices like "Fox News" every day (who would support the police behaving that way). Amazing to me, that as long as twitter declares the act of standing up to corruption of monied interests to be a 'bad' thing in Thailand then, suddenly, the same westerners who would be outraged about the Tea Party at home, would be cheering for the equivolent of the Koch Brothers and the Tea Pary somewhere else. It's just simple U.S. ignorance and arrogance.

I would be overjoyed to see free elections, and better services and education for the poor, etc. It would be a wonderful development, but it would need to begin with education of the people. You can't judge politics all from whether someone you observe is rich or poor, as in the U.S. it's somehow - shockingly - the poorest people who are the most supportive of the Koch Brothers funded efforts. They are the people who claim climate change doesn't exist, for example (so as not to have to pay anything for their carbon emissions). And, who is it that rabidly claims climate change is a 'liberal hoax?' The poor, having been completely manipulated by those billlionares. And (as an American) I find anti-Amerian sentiment to be JUST FINE! The U.S. is nothing but a bloated, and hypocritical, oil guzzling, war machine. The U.S. 'voice' in things is never a positive thing for anyone else, in the long run. And, as pointed out, the U.S. should be concerned with it's own disasters around the world. Deal with Iraq first, or the dictator that the U.S. helped to see be elected in Egypt while claiming to be on 'the right side of history'. The U.S. put Sadam Hussein in power as well. And stop relying on twitter-memes to construct your view of the world.

Edited June 30, 2014 by John1thru10

[EBlair48]

Critical thinking and expression of opinions is part of the path to improvement. However, mass turmoil that obstructs the rights of others just can't be tolerated, IMHO.

That mass turmoil was strategy. Suthep set up conditions deliberately to warrant the takeover because his party can't get elected .

Sorry the quote function isn't working properly on attribute

Edited June 30, 2014 by EBlair48

[kerrysum]

yes he's right. The US should just abandon Thailand and let them do as they have so well done before.

Guess I'D HAVE TO AGREE......

kilosierra

[spidermike007]

Good on the fella for making a tiny statement. What kinds of solutions did the brilliant minds in the US Govt. offer when Thailand was falling apart, with divisions so deep, and no solutions in sight? The government was nearly dysfunctional (as the US govt. nearly is right now) and nothing was offered. No assistance, no advice, nothing. So now, that the sacred cow of democracy has been breached, they do not want to associate with the so called junta leaders. How many times has the US engaged countries with truly despicable and heinous leadership? Dozens of times, but there was always a strategic interest, of which there are few found in Thailand. The level of duplicity and shallow falsehood that the US demonstrates on a daily basis is staggering. And understand, I am a US citizen. But, I am not standing around, and swallowing the Kool Aid.

[Krataiboy]

Clearly a contrived and counterproductive publicity stunt aimed at reinforcing anti-US sentiment among gullible Thais. Pity his handlers forgot to tell him a guy called Obama - not Nixon or Clinton - is the current US President.

[Bernard Flint]

In my opinion one fact is being overlooked here.

Ever since the Coup leaders switched the leaders in the police department law breakers have been stopped much more vigilantly than under the old leaders.

Maybe they are also glad to see the corruption going out of business and willing to help make Thailand a better place. that is just my opinion of why they are doing it.

How do you know

Its obvious to a blind man that the Junta are crowing over everything they do, all over the media.The last governments didnt need to do this, they just got on with it

[John1thru10]

Clearly a contrived and counterproductive publicity stunt aimed at reinforcing anti-US sentiment among gullible Thais. Pity his handlers forgot to tell him a guy called Obama - not Nixon or Clinton - is the current US President.

So, I'll take that to mean that you think invading Iraq was a great thing. And that you support swat teams being employed hundreds of times a day against non-violent (often wrongly identified) crimes. Or, I mean..you wouldn't just be using selective understanding to feel cool, right?

[firestar]

Not surprising when you hear the nauseous anti-farang undertones of some of the PDRC stages and our new dear leaders televised speeches.

[John1thru10]

Not surprising when you hear the nauseous anti-farang undertones of some of the PDRC stages and our new dear leaders televised speeches.

The last PM was pretty anti-farang, actually. You didn't notice that?

[Morch]

Not surprising when you hear the nauseous anti-farang undertones of some of the PDRC stages and our new dear leaders televised speeches.

The last PM was pretty anti-farang, actually. You didn't notice that?

Yes, yes....can really feel that animosity....

[tingtongteesood]

The red shirts are coming out today, a lot of sour grapes being voiced here. ''They are arresting people for eating sandwiches' - what a load of hogwash. People arranged 'anti coup demos' and made sure masses of reporters were there to watch then did this stupid crap and the army arrested them because 'zero tolerance' means zero tolerance. If they still want to go ahead and try and be anti coup publicity whores, that is their problem. I agree with the military's actions completely. Look at how nice and peaceful the last month has been and look at what the military have accomplished. Would you rather go back to the previous behaviors with red shirts murdering their opponents in 3am attacks ? I am sure a number of you moronic red loving idiots would, meanwhile the majority of non extremist normal people would much rather what we have today. You can try and poo poo it all you want but you are full of crap...

[metisdead]

An off topic nonsense post has been removed

[siampolee]

Bernard Flint post # 81

Its obvious to a blind man that the Junta are crowing over everything they do, all over the media.The last governments didnt need to do this, they just got on with it

Indeed true thieves never like to publicize their activities just take the money and run just as the Shinwatra lackeys did.

[toenail]

The United States would actually appreciate protester of such; for, it demonstrates what democracy is all about, being able to openly say (disagree or disagree with a government) about any issue.

And... in USA's eyes, as long as your leader is elected (no matter how corrupt or incompetent he/she is) in a "free" election and your government calls itself a "democracy" then this form of "democracy" is better than anything else. (OK USA, Saddam in Iraq was a dictator and not the easiest person to live under, but are the Iraqi people better off today? -- and does this form of "democracy" give the Iraqi people peace and harmony today???? )

So, before the American "armchair experts" start lecturing countries such as Thailand that they need to have elections within 3 weeks, these "experts" better ask themselves will having elections really make the country better at this moment?

[firestar]

Not surprising when you hear the nauseous anti-farang undertones of some of the PDRC stages and our new dear leaders televised speeches.

The last PM was pretty anti-farang, actually. You didn't notice that?

Care to share ?

I don't remember like Kun Seri, PDRC's darling, going on stage saying "It’s proven people with yellow skin are smarter than people with white skin,”“Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates." to huge cheers from the yellow crowds. Or like our Dear General (if you understood Thai) in his national televised speeches saying people shouldn't raise three fingers or eat sandwiches not only because it is subversive but because it is a "Farang" thing.

Edited June 30, 2014 by firestar

[kaobang]

The red shirts are coming out today, a lot of sour grapes being voiced here. ''They are arresting people for eating sandwiches' - what a load of hogwash. People arranged 'anti coup demos' and made sure masses of reporters were there to watch then did this stupid crap and the army arrested them because 'zero tolerance' means zero tolerance. If they still want to go ahead and try and be anti coup publicity whores, that is their problem. I agree with the military's actions completely. Look at how nice and peaceful the last month has been and look at what the military have accomplished. Would you rather go back to the previous behaviors with red shirts murdering their opponents in 3am attacks ? I am sure a number of you moronic red loving idiots would, meanwhile the majority of non extremist normal people would much rather what we have today. You can try and poo poo it all you want but you are full of crap...

what a bunch of tish.if thailand calls itself a democracy,be a democracy

if thailand wants to be a dictature,be a dictature

but if a democracy,stop to arrest students for things like that.zero tolerance to what?

Edited June 30, 2014 by kaobang