Social Security

[duanebigsby]

I'm working in a large, non-government school.

We have been told that because it's a private school, that we don't pay into the Thai Social Security system and can't get onto the Medical plan that every employee gets here. All the Thai teachers in my school pay into the system and have access to the Gov't hospitals, only the foreigners are left out. Instead they offer us 10k baht per year at the private Christian hospital. We are told because it isn't gov't school but I thought anyone with a work permit and paid taxes was part of the system. I have a buddy who manages a hotel pays into the system and gets medical. Why is a private school different?

Am I entitled with a work permit to pay into SS and have access to Thai medical system?

[Eddy B]

You can join the social security system but you will have to do it off your own back if the school is not willing to do it for you. Get a Thai person who understands English to help you out with this. Of course you will have to be the sole provider for the scheme as normally it would be 50/50 with the school.

PM me if you need help.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Eddy B

[smileplur]

Would the school need to provide some paperwork to take to the Social Security Office? I've approached my school (private) and they dismissed it. However, there are some teachers on so-called Thai contracts. The school has assisted them in obtaining Social Security recently. Obviously, this upset me. So, I have to go back and try again in light of this news. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I can say that will "win" them over in my case to obtain Social Security. I am willing to foot the bill; although, I believe they should pay half. They are paying half for teachers on Thai contracts which come with different rights (and lower pay). They get more sick days, etc. All of this doesn't seem right by labor law, but I don't want to rock the boat. The insurance they gives us is terrible. Social Security is much better. I just want to be covered.

Side note: Can you enroll dependants under your Social Security ... a child?

[cheeryble]

You're right to pursue it.

Close friend of my wife got lymphoma and chemo and care cost about 1 1/2 million baht....in fact they sent her to private hospitals paid by govt.

Sadly unsuccessful in her case.

[guavagirl]

As far as I know if you have a WP you can pay into the Thai Social Security system unless you are the owner of the business. Not sure what paperwork is needed though.

[PunkRockerGuy]

You are absolutely eligible to use the Thai SS benefits program. With a WP you pay 5% of gross salary and like in my case of almost dying in a severe Ninja 1000 SX super sport accident ... it saved me about 1.5 million baht in med expenses and I received top notch care at even Ramathibodi university Hospital from Thailand's #1 ortho surgeon.

If your employer does not have such a SS plan, you can always pay into the private fund with all the same benefits. I believe the rate is 7-7.5% and you won't even notice it. I'm retired from all my companies now, but my wife handles all the expenses but I know I pay just about the same as when I had the WP.

[PunkRockerGuy]

And, yes ... company owners or Directors are not eligible to use the fund.

[TerryLH]

"You can join the social security system but you will have to do it off your own back if the school is not willing to do it for you."

A number of years ago employees at private schools were taken out of the SS system Unless there has been a very recent change, you aren't eligible, so it has nothing to do with the school 'being willing', or not. If you have a question, I'd suggest you contact the Social Security Office. I have always found them to be helpful.

People who have been in the system for at least 12 months can continue paying on their own when they become ineligible to remain in the system. 432 baht a month.

"So, I have to go back and try again in light of this news."

What news? Again, I suggest you go ask at the SS Office. Horses mouth, so to speak.

"Can you enroll dependants under your Social Security ... a child?"

No, this particular system is only for employees, not their families.

"As far as I know if you have a WP you can pay into the Thai Social Security system unless you are the owner of the business."

The WP by itself doesn't make you eligible. It allows you to work legally, but has nothing to do with SS.

"You are absolutely eligible to use the Thai SS benefits program. With a WP you pay 5% of gross salary ..."

Not all employees are eligible for the SS system.

The amount you would pay, if employed and eligible, is 5% up to a maximum of 750 baht a month. The employer pays the same amount.

"If your employer does not have such a SS plan, you can always pay into the private fund with all the same benefits. "

Can you elaborate on what this private fund is that you mention?

" I pay just about the same as when I had the WP."

If you pay on your own, the monthly fee is 432 baht. Over the last couple of years it's sometimes been a little less than that because of government subsidies.

If you work and make at least 15k a month, the fee would be at the maximum of 750 baht. Your employer would also be paying the same amount.

Edited July 1, 2014 by TerryLH

[belg]

strange country, with strange people & strange rules...

in my wife's company, only thai can make carreer, farangs are there on contract and do not get the benefits the thai get (as in 100% paid hospital visits, even for daycare / outpatient) + they can never become supervisor, manager or anything up the ladder

pays same taxes, entitled to less or nothing

try these scams / schemes in the west and the company would have to pay millions in lawsuits

TIT i guess ?

sad but true

[Maroon Watcher]

a friends was told that he cannot join SS because he is over 50.. (Gov. school)

AND If I come back as a retiree - would i get SS? (After 50 - no WP/ maybe voluntary work)

?

[TerryLH]

If eligible through employment the cut off age is 60, not 50. That's to enter the system. If you are already in the system, and turn 60, you can remain in the system.

"AND If I come back as a retiree - would i get SS? (After 50 - no WP/ maybe voluntary work)?"

Everyone who works needs a work permit. Paid or unpaid status, it doesn't matter.

You wouldn't be able to get a WP on a visa or extension for retirement. With the correct visa / extension and a WP, if you are working somewhere that it's employees are eligible, shouldn't be any problem if you aren't 60 yet.

Teachers at government schools are eligible.

There is a time limit on enrolling to pay on your own after you lose eligibility through work. If you want to stay in the system, don't procrastinate.

Terry

[khunPer]

I picked up a fine little English language leaflet about the Social Security system at the amphur one-stop office some time back (sorry not have it handy right now). I was surprised to learn, that foreigners with a work permit can join and receive all the same benefits as Thai citizens. Actually it is the employer that shall pay into the system and certain percentage of the salary, I think with a minimum and a maximum. Percentage varies a bit year-to-year but is around 8 to 10 percent of the salary (10% in 2014), normally half paid be the employer and half deducted from the salary. Presume you can join voluntary.

If your salary is 17k baht or more per month, it is cheaper for your employer to grant 10k at a local hospital (ie. 5% of salary), and you also saved 5 per cent of the salary.

[TerryLH]

"If your salary is 17k baht or more per month, it is cheaper for your employer to grant 10k at a local hospital (ie. 5% of salary), and you also saved 5 per cent of the salary."

Can you explain what you mean, please?

You seem to be saying that instead of actually being in the SS system, you think the employer should give 10k to a hospital for your health coverage. I assume they would do that yearly.

There is no option to do that. Besides, the employer would actually be paying more.

If the employer was paying the maximum for you = 750 a month. That's only 9k. Another factor is that a lot of jobs are now only 10-11 months.

What would happen if the employee went through that amount in a short time? Who would cover the bills for the rest of the year?

[thaibook]

If eligible through employment the cut off age is 60, not 50. That's to enter the system. If you are already in the system, and turn 60, you can remain in the system.

Terry

So what happens to people who ar ein the system after they turn 60 or after they retire? Are they still covered but need no longer contribute? Is thee a minimum number of years one has to pay in for the "retirement" benefit to kick in?

Thaibook

[falang07]

You're right to pursue it.

Close friend of my wife got lymphoma and chemo and care cost about 1 1/2 million baht....in fact they sent her to private hospitals paid by govt.

Sadly unsuccessful in her case.

It is really sad that in today's world the big pharma is selling these killer chemicals as a "cure" and puts this hefty price tag on them. Chemotherapy causes cancer in healthy humans and animals so the treatment is based on the absurd expectation that the patient's body does not get killed before the cancer does. You are better of if you can not afford such "great" medical care.

[khunPer]

"If your salary is 17k baht or more per month, it is cheaper for your employer to grant 10k at a local hospital (ie. 5% of salary), and you also saved 5 per cent of the salary."

Can you explain what you mean, please?

You seem to be saying that instead of actually being in the SS system, you think the employer should give 10k to a hospital for your health coverage. I assume they would do that yearly.

There is no option to do that. Besides, the employer would actually be paying more.

If the employer was paying the maximum for you = 750 a month. That's only 9k. Another factor is that a lot of jobs are now only 10-11 months.

What would happen if the employee went through that amount in a short time? Who would cover the bills for the rest of the year?

OP said: »Instead they offer us 10k baht per year at the private Christian hospital.«

Social Security is 10 percent of the salary, however I just mentioned that I think there is a maximum, but did not check – which I should have done…

Stand corrected, seems like there is a maximum 15k/month salary (so there was in 2013), so 5+5 percent is 750+750 baht a month.

[TerryLH]

"So what happens to people who are in the system after they turn 60 or after they retire? Are they still covered but need no longer contribute? Is thee a minimum number of years one has to pay in for the "retirement" benefit to kick in?"

If you continue working, you can continue in the system after you turn 60.

If you leave the system for any reason, fired, quit, job no longer eligible, etc, you can continue paying on your own for the health benefit.

The only requirement is that you have been paying into the system for 12 months, and that you enroll to pay on your own within 3 months (I'm pretty sure it's 3).

The cost is 432 baht a month. It's just for health benefits, not retirement. For the last couple of years the cost has varied because the government has been subsidizing part of the fee.

For retirement, you have to have been in the system for either 10 or 15 years. Sorry, my mind is foggy on the exact number right now, but it's either 120 months or 180 months.

[duanebigsby]

"If your salary is 17k baht or more per month, it is cheaper for your employer to grant 10k at a local hospital (ie. 5% of salary), and you also saved 5 per cent of the salary."

Can you explain what you mean, please?

You seem to be saying that instead of actually being in the SS system, you think the employer should give 10k to a hospital for your health coverage. I assume they would do that yearly.

There is no option to do that. Besides, the employer would actually be paying more.

If the employer was paying the maximum for you = 750 a month. That's only 9k. Another factor is that a lot of jobs are now only 10-11 months.

What would happen if the employee went through that amount in a short time? Who would cover the bills for the rest of the year?

OP said: »Instead they offer us 10k baht per year at the private Christian hospital.«

Social Security is 10 percent of the salary, however I just mentioned that I think there is a maximum, but did not check – which I should have done…

Stand corrected, seems like there is a maximum 15k/month salary (so there was in 2013), so 5+5 percent is 750+750 baht a month.

what I meant was the school offered us 10k baht to pay medical expenses per year, not "coverage"

breaking my wrist 2 years ago was 40k baht, they would give me 10k to compensate. Heart surgery? Out of my price range.

[duanebigsby]

You're right to pursue it.

Close friend of my wife got lymphoma and chemo and care cost about 1 1/2 million baht....in fact they sent her to private hospitals paid by govt.

Sadly unsuccessful in her case.

It is really sad that in today's world the big pharma is selling these killer chemicals as a "cure" and puts this hefty price tag on them. Chemotherapy causes cancer in healthy humans and animals so the treatment is based on the absurd expectation that the patient's body does not get killed before the cancer does. You are better of if you can not afford such "great" medical care.

The "Big Pharma" conspiracy theories make me , as a cancer survivor upset. 40 years ago the cancer I had would have been a death sentence.

Chemo is brutal and very hard on the body. It also tries to ensure the cancer won't return.

You guys with your, " there is a natural cure, don't do chemo" arguments are quoting quackery.

My situation, No surgery, no chemo......death. What would you suggest?

[duanebigsby]

Thanks for the help guys. I will contact the social Security Office and look into what is next.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would be great if someone here can clarify the issue about supposedly private schools being removed from the Social Security system in terms of government health coverage.

All private schools? Grade school through private university? And for Thai staff, farang staff or both?

And if they were taken out of SS, then what kind of coverage was supposed to be the alternative, especially for farang staff?

[TerryLH]

I can confirm that employees at private schools were taken out of the system a number of years ago.

Thai and foreign employees.

Regular schools for sure. I don't know about language schools.

Prathom through high school. I think universities fall under something else.

Now, I suppose, there will be those that want confirmation of that.

Best way to do that is go to a Social Security office and ask them directly.

I believe that the schools were left free to choose how they addressed health coverage for their employees.

At least some of them chose group health coverage. Can't speak about what everyone does or does not do.

[nickcar]

When i retired 4 years ago i had been in SS for about 15 years. During those years i developed a human resources system so up until about 6 years ago i was very up to date on SS requirements. I retired aged 66 and was able to continue the SS paying myself about 400 baht a month. I also received a chequefrom SS for 100,000 baht odd as a retirement benefit.

At that time the SS contributions were 7.5 % for both employer and employee calculated on a maximum of 15,000 baht salary per month. I beleive all bussiness with number of employees above X are obliged to pay. ( X was 20 but i beleive it has been reduced to 5. ). It does include a pension but i beleive you have to have been paying the 7.5 % for 15 years.

[lostinisaan]

I'd just switched to a small school in May, then tried to continue my social security ,which I've already got for more than 10 years.

It took a long time to find out that the director had never registered his small Anuban school that has students from Kindergarten up to M.3 at the social security office.

Now it also turned out that all others, janitors, people who do other work than teaching, also have to be insured, to get me in.

They'd promised me to do it, but I do not know if it's true. Please consider that the school also has to pay the same amount in each month, which would be the reason that they deny it.

Good luck, I'll hopefully have mine back next month. I'll turn 55 next year and was already informed that I can take the amount I've paid in out and continue paying in.