Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it.

Now we see which government is really on the side of the rich, land-owning Amataya.

IMO, the reason property is so expensive (beyond what average people can afford) is because wealthy land-owners, can let the land stay idle for generations without any expense. The purpose of a property tax is to keep the land in circulation and make it productive. Those rich land-owners might not hoard so much land if it cost them to keep it. Property values in Bangkok are at least 40% above those in Dallas and farm land can be ten times as much as farm land in Texas. (I use Texas because it is equivalent in area to Thailand though the population of Thailand is 2.5 times higher)

Good try. In fact I felt disgusted with Korn trying to do another hookwinking and try to put blame on others and not himself . Let's recalled May 12 2009 when Korn was the FM and he was reported to say that he was submiting draft legislation for inheritance, land and property tax for the cabinet approval. So what happen during his adminstration in passing the legislation. Simply the Dem government fear offending the many wealthy and rich landowners and supporters

What happened? A democratically elected Democrat government was side-tracked by a rent-a-mob of Red Shirts who were paid for by a former PM who couldn't let go of power and who tried to use that mob to stage a 'soft coup'. You know that. Everybody knows that. Why are you asking dumb questions?

What a load of rubbish. The property tax bill was submitted to the cabinet for approval in March 2010. The election was in July 2011. A full 1+ year and only a cabinet decision and yet they procrastinated because they fear offending their wealthy supporters and Korn has the audacity to blame Yingluck government. The Dem dropped the ball and decided to kick the can down the road for others to pick up the difficult decision.

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it.

Now we see which government is really on the side of the rich, land-owning Amataya.

IMO, the reason property is so expensive (beyond what average people can afford) is because wealthy land-owners, can let the land stay idle for generations without any expense. The purpose of a property tax is to keep the land in circulation and make it productive. Those rich land-owners might not hoard so much land if it cost them to keep it. Property values in Bangkok are at least 40% above those in Dallas and farm land can be ten times as much as farm land in Texas. (I use Texas because it is equivalent in area to Thailand though the population of Thailand is 2.5 times higher)

Abhisit tried the same type of reform and everyone scurried for cover.

The Amartaya control every side. He who has the money has the power.

Land taxes are a very necessary reform. Even a modest sum per rai would see the exchequer swimming in money. Land is the countries most valuable asset.

Strange how it is now in the hands of so few with many of this few being of a certain ethnic group. And they say they don't want foreigners owning it. But they darent tax the current owners.

So what exactly is the contribution to the country of washing your cash into land and exploiting the holding of it. Zilch.

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it.

Now we see which government is really on the side of the rich, land-owning Amataya.

IMO, the reason property is so expensive (beyond what average people can afford) is because wealthy land-owners, can let the land stay idle for generations without any expense. The purpose of a property tax is to keep the land in circulation and make it productive. Those rich land-owners might not hoard so much land if it cost them to keep it. Property values in Bangkok are at least 40% above those in Dallas and farm land can be ten times as much as farm land in Texas. (I use Texas because it is equivalent in area to Thailand though the population of Thailand is 2.5 times higher)

Good try. In fact I felt disgusted with Korn trying to do another hookwinking and try to put blame on others and not himself . Let's recalled May 12 2009 when Korn was the FM and he was reported to say that he was submiting draft legislation for inheritance, land and property tax for the cabinet approval. So what happen during his adminstration in passing the legislation. Simply the Dem government fear offending the many wealthy and rich landowners and supporters

Korn was in a weak coalition government YL was in a strong PTP government. As usual YL (Taksin) shows his colors.

But property tax is a good thing just set a threshold that is not taxed like 2 mil baht or so then the poor won't have a problem the rest will have to pay a bit. Sounds like a good system to me that takes money from the real rich, then of course this money has to be used good.

The threshold needs to be way higher than that. Lots of "poor" Isaac old people are sitting on rice field assets that produce next to nothing in income, so the people are income poor and live in wood houses without modern conveniences other than electricity and a tv. When they die, a few rai will easily exceed 2 million baht. The family would only be able to pay the tax by selling the land.

The tax should be aimed at the wealthy who can afford it. Which is precisely why it will never be introduced. Can you imagine one of Thailands rich families actually paying property or inheritance tax? No, neither can I.

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it.

Now we see which government is really on the side of the rich, land-owning Amataya.

IMO, the reason property is so expensive (beyond what average people can afford) is because wealthy land-owners, can let the land stay idle for generations without any expense. The purpose of a property tax is to keep the land in circulation and make it productive. Those rich land-owners might not hoard so much land if it cost them to keep it. Property values in Bangkok are at least 40% above those in Dallas and farm land can be ten times as much as farm land in Texas. (I use Texas because it is equivalent in area to Thailand though the population of Thailand is 2.5 times higher)

Good try. In fact I felt disgusted with Korn trying to do another hookwinking and try to put blame on others and not himself . Let's recalled May 12 2009 when Korn was the FM and he was reported to say that he was submiting draft legislation for inheritance, land and property tax for the cabinet approval. So what happen during his adminstration in passing the legislation. Simply the Dem government fear offending the many wealthy and rich landowners and supporters

Korn was in a weak coalition government YL was in a strong PTP government. As usual YL (Taksin) shows his colors.

But property tax is a good thing just set a threshold that is not taxed like 2 mil baht or so then the poor won't have a problem the rest will have to pay a bit. Sounds like a good system to me that takes money from the real rich, then of course this money has to be used good.

The threshold needs to be way higher than that. Lots of "poor" Isaac old people are sitting on rice field assets that produce next to nothing in income, so the people are income poor and live in wood houses without modern conveniences other than electricity and a tv. When they die, a few rai will easily exceed 2 million baht. The family would only be able to pay the tax by selling the land.

The tax should be aimed at the wealthy who can afford it. Which is precisely why it will never be introduced. Can you imagine one of Thailands rich families actually paying property or inheritance tax? No, neither can I.

This is what happens when tax laws are written exclusiveky by business people and the rich.

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it. Korn said with the powers it has, the [current] military government could finish it within a week,.

I don't think most Thai people could afford to pay property taxes on their homes but taxes on speculative land would be a good thing. A lot of land is bought and held for years by rich people who have inside knowledge of government and private projects. Holding land in strategic locations stifles growth, if it isn't being used for agriculture and it is more than one rai, tax it.

Agree.

At Nana Skytrain station in Bangkok near Pacific place building (Soi 8 side) is a large piece of land right on Sukhumvit road that has been overgrown and used as a rubbish dump for at least 10 years as i know it.

It is in a prime downtown location that could be put to good use for the benefit of the area.

Either a bank is holding on to it, it is part of a property company's "Land Bank" or it is privately owned.

A tax on speculative land might be the motivation to develop this land for the benefit of the area.

That piece of property just sold about six or eight years ago and set a record, at the time, for land price in Bangkok. Maybe the land cost so much they couldn't afford to build, or the construction deal fell through, or some bureaucrat was holding them up for ransom. Any development in this area will just lead to more congestion; both people and traffic. this is not an area in need of development. Soi 8 has probably doubled in value in the last ten years.

.

Why not follow the lead of Berlin, Germany and dedicate the area to open space or make it into a public park? Surely the Thai government could afford the cost of the property.

"The German capital of Berlin is encircled by an enormous greenbelt comprising a series of huge parks, some of which are almost as big as the city itself. Considerably smaller and more central are the parks of Fennpfuhl, Volkspark Humboldthain, Volkspark Friedrichshain and Waldeck, while the acclaimed Botanical Garden lies within the south-western zone, alongside the campus of the Free Universitat Berlin."

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it. Korn said with the powers it has, the [current] military government could finish it within a week,.

I don't think most Thai people could afford to pay property taxes on their homes but taxes on speculative land would be a good thing. A lot of land is bought and held for years by rich people who have inside knowledge of government and private projects. Holding land in strategic locations stifles growth, if it isn't being used for agriculture and it is more than one rai, tax it.

Agree.

At Nana Skytrain station in Bangkok near Pacific place building (Soi 8 side) is a large piece of land right on Sukhumvit road that has been overgrown and used as a rubbish dump for at least 10 years as i know it.

It is in a prime downtown location that could be put to good use for the benefit of the area.

Either a bank is holding on to it, it is part of a property company's "Land Bank" or it is privately owned.

A tax on speculative land might be the motivation to develop this land for the benefit of the area.

That piece of property just sold about six or eight years ago and set a record, at the time, for land price in Bangkok. Maybe the land cost so much they couldn't afford to build, or the construction deal fell through, or some bureaucrat was holding them up for ransom. Any development in this area will just lead to more congestion; both people and traffic. this is not an area in need of development. Soi 8 has probably doubled in value in the last ten years.

.

Why not follow the lead of Berlin, Germany and dedicate the area to open space or make it into a public park? Surely the Thai government could afford the cost of the property.

"The German capital of Berlin is encircled by an enormous greenbelt comprising a series of huge parks, some of which are almost as big as the city itself. Considerably smaller and more central are the parks of Fennpfuhl, Volkspark Humboldthain, Volkspark Friedrichshain and Waldeck, while the acclaimed Botanical Garden lies within the south-western zone, alongside the campus of the Free Universitat Berlin."

If the Thai government wanted a Central Park for Bangkok, the perfect location is a huge, unused tract of land owned by SRT, by the Makkasan Rail Link Station. Many plans have been drawn up, many petitions signed. It would be large enough for a city the size of Bangkok.

http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-masstransit-centralpark.html

http://2bangkok.com/images/makkasancentral.jpg

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it. Korn said with the powers it has, the [current] military government could finish it within a week,.

I don't think most Thai people could afford to pay property taxes on their homes but taxes on speculative land would be a good thing. A lot of land is bought and held for years by rich people who have inside knowledge of government and private projects. Holding land in strategic locations stifles growth, if it isn't being used for agriculture and it is more than one rai, tax it.

Property taxes do eventually result in taxing people out their homes. Once it starts, it doesn't stop. And nobody makes fine distinctions in the world of "pay your fair share."

What a load of rubbish. Too high mortgage repayments may force people out of their homes, but never property tax.

Many countries have different systems for indirect taxes. Thailand has a very small proportion of people who pay income tax so it needs to broaden its tax base.

VAT should increase to 10% as it was going to in 2012. It is mostly charged on non-essential goods and entertainment - few poor workers ever buy something that has VAT other than new mobile phones, new motorbikes and alcohol.

eg

The following activities are exempt from VAT:

• Sale of agriculture products and animal products (except canned foods)

• Sales of fertilizers, drugs or chemicals for caring for plants or

animals, and insecticides or pesticides for plants or animals

• Sales of ground fishmeal and animal feeds

• Sales of newspapers, periodicals and textbooks

• Rendering of services in the fields of medicine, auditing or litigation

• Hospital services

• Domestic transportation and international transportation by land

• Leasing of immovable property

• Business subject to Specific Business Tax (SBT)

Private land should at least pay rates ie a charge to the local administration for roads, drainage and rubbish collection.

Investment land acquired for any purpose should have a land tax

Agricultural land that the farmer lives and works on being exempt.

A small inheritance tax over a certain threshold.

Maybe a small tax on money being transferred overseas for non investment purposes.

There are always ways of thinking 'outside the box" that might benefit both the landowners and the government.

For example ..... inheritance tax and derelict land.

The owner of the property might be asked to voluntarily clean up the property and establish it to a condition where it coulfd be used and maintained by the city as a public park area.

Sort of a "mini-park", a green space in an otherwise urban environment, with public access.

For that, the owners would be allowed to get a rebate or exemption on inheritance taxes or property taxes on that otherwise derelict property.

They would still retain the ownership of the land, and the city would have the use of the land for a public park.

Kind of a win-win situation for both parties.. Co-operation being preferable to conflict.

But politicians are not good at that kind of original "outside the box" thinking.

Nor, for that matter, are "private property" capitalists.

What a load of rubbish. The property tax bill was submitted to the cabinet for approval in March 2010. The election was in July 2011. A full 1+ year and only a cabinet decision and yet they procrastinated because they fear offending their wealthy supporters and Korn has the audacity to blame Yingluck government. The Dem dropped the ball and decided to kick the can down the road for others to pick up the difficult decision.

........or not, as PTP politicians obviously had other priorities than taxing themselves; Thaksin's passport, amnesty and other requirements being the highest rated.

If the junta truly want to bring happiness to the Thai people property tax is not the way to go. Once the die has been cast the number of people "caught in the net" will gradually increase as the "ceiling" is set lower and lower as a convenient way of raising money.

Bearing in mind the increasing economic inequality between rich and poor (not only in this country but worldwide) the fairest tax would be on land, not property. However this is not likely to happen while this situation exists

The Sirivadhanabhakdi family has emerged as Thailand's largest landlord, with 630,000 rai, according to a survey.

Trailing it were the Chearavanonts, who own a combined 200,000 rai.

Coming third was United Palm Oil Industry Plc, a palm oil producer with large plantations in Krabi and Surat Thani, with 44,400 rai.

The Crown Property Bureau came fourth, with 30,000 rai.

The survey was conducted by Local Action Links (Local Act), a non-government organisation focusing on strengthening farmers' networks, especially landless ones.

Among politicians, Amnat Klangpa of Pheu Thai led the group, with 2,030 rai, followed by Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana (2,000 rai) and Sanoh Thienthong of Pheu Thai (1,900 rai).

Others are Adisak Pokskulnanont (1,197 rai), Tossaporn Thepabut (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Attawich Suwanpakdee (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Suchon Champoonot (Pheu Thai, 1060 rai), Chai Chidchob (Bhumjaithai, 854 rai) and Monthon Kraiwatnusorn (Pheu Thai, 755 rai).

Some 15.9 million of Thais owned land of whom 15.68 million were individuals and 212,000 juristic persons or companies.

Survey based on title deeds at the Land Department.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

My reply, not as a "red cheerleader", but as a person genuinely disheartened by the disparity between rich and poor and looking for a solution, is that I do not trust politicians of any hue not to lower the "ceiling" on which property tax is due.

If a land tax is imposed, empty land would be freed up, and if the ceiling was lowered it would affect at the most 16 million landowners. The poorest would not be in the landowning bracket and thus immune from whatever happens. Obviously there would have to be some "watchdog" involved to prevent unscrupulous landowners passing on the tax in rent increases but it just seems more equitable to me.

It also means that it will never happen. Like wise the inheritance and property tax - don't forget this is only a suggestion and will just be added to the juntas list of "going to do's".

If the junta truly want to bring happiness to the Thai people property tax is not the way to go. Once the die has been cast the number of people "caught in the net" will gradually increase as the "ceiling" is set lower and lower as a convenient way of raising money.

Bearing in mind the increasing economic inequality between rich and poor (not only in this country but worldwide) the fairest tax would be on land, not property. However this is not likely to happen while this situation exists

The Sirivadhanabhakdi family has emerged as Thailand's largest landlord, with 630,000 rai, according to a survey.

Trailing it were the Chearavanonts, who own a combined 200,000 rai.

Coming third was United Palm Oil Industry Plc, a palm oil producer with large plantations in Krabi and Surat Thani, with 44,400 rai.

The Crown Property Bureau came fourth, with 30,000 rai.

The survey was conducted by Local Action Links (Local Act), a non-government organisation focusing on strengthening farmers' networks, especially landless ones.

Among politicians, Amnat Klangpa of Pheu Thai led the group, with 2,030 rai, followed by Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana (2,000 rai) and Sanoh Thienthong of Pheu Thai (1,900 rai).

Others are Adisak Pokskulnanont (1,197 rai), Tossaporn Thepabut (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Attawich Suwanpakdee (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Suchon Champoonot (Pheu Thai, 1060 rai), Chai Chidchob (Bhumjaithai, 854 rai) and Monthon Kraiwatnusorn (Pheu Thai, 755 rai).

Some 15.9 million of Thais owned land of whom 15.68 million were individuals and 212,000 juristic persons or companies.

Survey based on title deeds at the Land Department.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

630,000 rai?

Bloody hell. They could start their own country.

The proposed property tax legislation will charge 0.1% for residential property. That rate is very low, barely 9% of the average rate in California.

However, as Californians made clear years ago when they succeeded in clamping down on property taxes, the main issue is not the rate but the valuation to which the annual rate is applied.

How will Thailand determine (overnight!) the appraised value of so many properties? There is only one way, and that is to begin with the most recent purchase price on file at the Land Office. Over the coming years they could have teams of appraisers update those values to current levels, but this process is where corruption comes in and ruins any chance of this law contributing to greater social fairness. I will pay my tax and I wish them well with it, but this change will be a slow and difficult evolution.

BTW, please don't mention raising the VAT to 10% like there's anything good about it. Sales taxes may not seem like much of a burden to the middle and upper classes but they are by definition the least fair method of collecting revenue.

630,000 rai?

Bloody hell. They could start their own country.

Unfortunately they would probably be sorely missed by a fair few on this forum, being purveyors of Chang amongst other activities, and what would happen if Lao Khao disappeared?

If the junta truly want to bring happiness to the Thai people property tax is not the way to go. Once the die has been cast the number of people "caught in the net" will gradually increase as the "ceiling" is set lower and lower as a convenient way of raising money.

Bearing in mind the increasing economic inequality between rich and poor (not only in this country but worldwide) the fairest tax would be on land, not property. However this is not likely to happen while this situation exists

The Sirivadhanabhakdi family has emerged as Thailand's largest landlord, with 630,000 rai, according to a survey.

Trailing it were the Chearavanonts, who own a combined 200,000 rai.

Coming third was United Palm Oil Industry Plc, a palm oil producer with large plantations in Krabi and Surat Thani, with 44,400 rai.

The Crown Property Bureau came fourth, with 30,000 rai.

The survey was conducted by Local Action Links (Local Act), a non-government organisation focusing on strengthening farmers' networks, especially landless ones.

Among politicians, Amnat Klangpa of Pheu Thai led the group, with 2,030 rai, followed by Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana (2,000 rai) and Sanoh Thienthong of Pheu Thai (1,900 rai).

Others are Adisak Pokskulnanont (1,197 rai), Tossaporn Thepabut (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Attawich Suwanpakdee (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Suchon Champoonot (Pheu Thai, 1060 rai), Chai Chidchob (Bhumjaithai, 854 rai) and Monthon Kraiwatnusorn (Pheu Thai, 755 rai).

Some 15.9 million of Thais owned land of whom 15.68 million were individuals and 212,000 juristic persons or companies.

Survey based on title deeds at the Land Department.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

My reply, not as a "red cheerleader", but as a person genuinely disheartened by the disparity between rich and poor and looking for a solution, is that I do not trust politicians of any hue not to lower the "ceiling" on which property tax is due.

If a land tax is imposed, empty land would be freed up, and if the ceiling was lowered it would affect at the most 16 million landowners. The poorest would not be in the landowning bracket and thus immune from whatever happens. Obviously there would have to be some "watchdog" involved to prevent unscrupulous landowners passing on the tax in rent increases but it just seems more equitable to me.

It also means that it will never happen. Like wise the inheritance and property tax - don't forget this is only a suggestion and will just be added to the juntas list of "going to do's".

I will even go further than taxing the empty land. Since it's junta time, expropriate the empty land and place them in a land bank. Of course, give time for the land owners to have a time frame to develop their land and if they fail, buy the land for a reasonable price. Provide some kind of soft loans to landless farmers to buy the land. Give them a period of zero tax. Fab, that will improve the inequality of income and improve the farmers life for a longer period.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

My reply, not as a "red cheerleader", but as a person genuinely disheartened by the disparity between rich and poor and looking for a solution, is that I do not trust politicians of any hue not to lower the "ceiling" on which property tax is due.

If a land tax is imposed, empty land would be freed up, and if the ceiling was lowered it would affect at the most 16 million landowners. The poorest would not be in the landowning bracket and thus immune from whatever happens. Obviously there would have to be some "watchdog" involved to prevent unscrupulous landowners passing on the tax in rent increases but it just seems more equitable to me.

It also means that it will never happen. Like wise the inheritance and property tax - don't forget this is only a suggestion and will just be added to the juntas list of "going to do's".

I think you should not worry too much about the lowering of the ceiling as the poor are still a majority here. I see this (if applied well) as a great opportunity to tax the real rich. I think we do agree both that if done correctly this is a tax that could work.

I am talking about a property tax we have in the Netherlands, it also goes over money and savings (kinda a capital gain tax) At the moment i see that tax as unfair because presumed gains are much higher as what is possible. But in itself this combined with a land tax would do a lot of good in Thailand. Thing is of course that it has to be applied well.

In general I am against too much taxes as I feel overtaxing is a problem, but so far I dont see it here.

I understand your concerns as you might be right.. I am just like you hoping that this will be done. I don't know how the chances are of course.

If the junta truly want to bring happiness to the Thai people property tax is not the way to go. Once the die has been cast the number of people "caught in the net" will gradually increase as the "ceiling" is set lower and lower as a convenient way of raising money.

Bearing in mind the increasing economic inequality between rich and poor (not only in this country but worldwide) the fairest tax would be on land, not property. However this is not likely to happen while this situation exists

The Sirivadhanabhakdi family has emerged as Thailand's largest landlord, with 630,000 rai, according to a survey.

Trailing it were the Chearavanonts, who own a combined 200,000 rai.

Coming third was United Palm Oil Industry Plc, a palm oil producer with large plantations in Krabi and Surat Thani, with 44,400 rai.

The Crown Property Bureau came fourth, with 30,000 rai.

The survey was conducted by Local Action Links (Local Act), a non-government organisation focusing on strengthening farmers' networks, especially landless ones.

Among politicians, Amnat Klangpa of Pheu Thai led the group, with 2,030 rai, followed by Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana (2,000 rai) and Sanoh Thienthong of Pheu Thai (1,900 rai).

Others are Adisak Pokskulnanont (1,197 rai), Tossaporn Thepabut (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Attawich Suwanpakdee (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Suchon Champoonot (Pheu Thai, 1060 rai), Chai Chidchob (Bhumjaithai, 854 rai) and Monthon Kraiwatnusorn (Pheu Thai, 755 rai).

Some 15.9 million of Thais owned land of whom 15.68 million were individuals and 212,000 juristic persons or companies.

Survey based on title deeds at the Land Department.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

My reply, not as a "red cheerleader", but as a person genuinely disheartened by the disparity between rich and poor and looking for a solution, is that I do not trust politicians of any hue not to lower the "ceiling" on which property tax is due.

If a land tax is imposed, empty land would be freed up, and if the ceiling was lowered it would affect at the most 16 million landowners. The poorest would not be in the landowning bracket and thus immune from whatever happens. Obviously there would have to be some "watchdog" involved to prevent unscrupulous landowners passing on the tax in rent increases but it just seems more equitable to me.

It also means that it will never happen. Like wise the inheritance and property tax - don't forget this is only a suggestion and will just be added to the juntas list of "going to do's".

I will even go further than taxing the empty land. Since it's junta time, expropriate the empty land and place them in a land bank. Of course, give time for the land owners to have a time frame to develop their land and if they fail, buy the land for a reasonable price. Provide some kind of soft loans to landless farmers to buy the land. Give them a period of zero tax. Fab, that will improve the inequality of income and improve the farmers life for a longer period.

I think we should leave it at a tax. The army rounded up whole villages in the 70s when they started talking about land for the people and waving little red books around.

good to see Piyasvasti Amranand in a good post, he did a great job at thai airways , while it lasted

The best reform Thailand can have with regard to inheritance tax is to replace it with an estate tax.

The inheritance tax which is based on who receives a deceased person's property and the tax is paid by the inheritor. The Testator can typically choose individual heirs carefully so as to avoid the inheritance tax altogether such as excluding children, grandchildren, brothers and sisters or nieces and nephews or friends as heirs.

The estate tax is based on the net value of property owned by a deceased person on the date of death and the tax is paid by the estate.The estate tax is collected only if the value of estate assets exceeds any estate tax exemption after applicable deductions such as executor expenses for things like funeral and administrative costs are applied and debts of the deceased. The US federal government has an estate tax. Each US state is free to establish their own additional "death taxes" but only about six states use an inheritance tax, albeit with virtual 100% exemption for surviving spouse.

Legislatively, the inheritance tax is more difficult than estate tax to prevent "playing" the system to avoid any taxes, more time consuming for taxation authorities to enforce and collect taxes, and more budernsome on the individual heirs to pay the tax. The inheritance tax further disdavantages the beneficiaries because it is independent of the debts owed by the deceased; and in Thailand the decease's debts might be passed onto the beneficiaries (ie., mortgage) while the beneficiary is still taxed on the full market value of the inheritance. As national economic conditions arise (ie., need to reduce federal deficits), the estate tax can easily be amended to achieve social engineering of the tax base. But the inheritance tax has no direct relationship to the national economy and is virtually unlimited as to the financial devices that can be used to avoid the tax completely.

If the junta truly want to bring happiness to the Thai people property tax is not the way to go. Once the die has been cast the number of people "caught in the net" will gradually increase as the "ceiling" is set lower and lower as a convenient way of raising money.

Bearing in mind the increasing economic inequality between rich and poor (not only in this country but worldwide) the fairest tax would be on land, not property. However this is not likely to happen while this situation exists

The Sirivadhanabhakdi family has emerged as Thailand's largest landlord, with 630,000 rai, according to a survey.

Trailing it were the Chearavanonts, who own a combined 200,000 rai.

Coming third was United Palm Oil Industry Plc, a palm oil producer with large plantations in Krabi and Surat Thani, with 44,400 rai.

The Crown Property Bureau came fourth, with 30,000 rai.

The survey was conducted by Local Action Links (Local Act), a non-government organisation focusing on strengthening farmers' networks, especially landless ones.

Among politicians, Amnat Klangpa of Pheu Thai led the group, with 2,030 rai, followed by Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana (2,000 rai) and Sanoh Thienthong of Pheu Thai (1,900 rai).

Others are Adisak Pokskulnanont (1,197 rai), Tossaporn Thepabut (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Attawich Suwanpakdee (Democrat, 1,095 rai), Suchon Champoonot (Pheu Thai, 1060 rai), Chai Chidchob (Bhumjaithai, 854 rai) and Monthon Kraiwatnusorn (Pheu Thai, 755 rai).

Some 15.9 million of Thais owned land of whom 15.68 million were individuals and 212,000 juristic persons or companies.

Survey based on title deeds at the Land Department.

I am genuinely confused why a property tax would not be something a red cheerleader wants. I know I see it as a fair tax as you can set the levels at 2 million and then the poor are excluded.

Do you have any real experience with this tax ? I know i file it regularly for clients and though I hate it as there is enough tax already it seems a fair tax if you want to take money from the rich.

My reply, not as a "red cheerleader", but as a person genuinely disheartened by the disparity between rich and poor and looking for a solution, is that I do not trust politicians of any hue not to lower the "ceiling" on which property tax is due.

If a land tax is imposed, empty land would be freed up, and if the ceiling was lowered it would affect at the most 16 million landowners. The poorest would not be in the landowning bracket and thus immune from whatever happens. Obviously there would have to be some "watchdog" involved to prevent unscrupulous landowners passing on the tax in rent increases but it just seems more equitable to me.

It also means that it will never happen. Like wise the inheritance and property tax - don't forget this is only a suggestion and will just be added to the juntas list of "going to do's".

I will even go further than taxing the empty land. Since it's junta time, expropriate the empty land and place them in a land bank. Of course, give time for the land owners to have a time frame to develop their land and if they fail, buy the land for a reasonable price. Provide some kind of soft loans to landless farmers to buy the land. Give them a period of zero tax. Fab, that will improve the inequality of income and improve the farmers life for a longer period.

I think we should leave it at a tax. The army rounded up whole villages in the 70s when they started talking about land for the people and waving little red books around.

555. What am I thinking? Sometimes I mistaken militarism for socialism.

They can't figure out a way to make 57 state enterprises more transparent. But, he says, they can finish it in a week. So we have to assume that good old Korn would suggest by passing transparency since he can't figure it out. Based on that news, he appears to be a strong candidate to be put up for election in a year with the military junta's "backing."

Care to compare Korn's performance/experience to Kittirat's performance/experience as Minister of Finance?

Like comparing a five star dinner to a dog's dinner.

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They can't figure out a way to make 57 state enterprises more transparent. But, he says, they can finish it in a week. So we have to assume that good old Korn would suggest by passing transparency since he can't figure it out. Based on that news, he appears to be a strong candidate to be put up for election in a year with the military junta's "backing."

Great! He was the best finance minister Thailand has had in the past 15 years!

I love the way massive tax increases is called 'reform'. . A property tax will immediately hit the middle class and lower middle class, rich property owners will immediately use it as an excuse to raise rents. Homeowners who were paying nothing before now have a new tax for nothing. The extra money raised will likely go to waste as the local governments are the most graft prone. overtime the property tax gets higher and higher.. in places like california even if you own your house outright and it's a working class neighborhood , you will still have to pay hundreds of dollars in property taxes every month, that's why you have places that look like slum housing in s. cal renting for more than a luxury condo in Bangkok. The rich can afford higher property taxes but the poor cannot; and there is no way to 'only property-tax the rich' that's the tax-and-spenders bullshit line.

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it. Korn said with the powers it has, the [current] military government could finish it within a week,.

I don't think most Thai people could afford to pay property taxes on their homes but taxes on speculative land would be a good thing. A lot of land is bought and held for years by rich people who have inside knowledge of government and private projects. Holding land in strategic locations stifles growth, if it isn't being used for agriculture and it is more than one rai, tax it.

Agree.

At Nana Skytrain station in Bangkok near Pacific place building (Soi 8 side) is a large piece of land right on Sukhumvit road that has been overgrown and used as a rubbish dump for at least 10 years as i know it.

It is in a prime downtown location that could be put to good use for the benefit of the area.

Either a bank is holding on to it, it is part of a property company's "Land Bank" or it is privately owned.

A tax on speculative land might be the motivation to develop this land for the benefit of the area.

What are you smoking ?

If you own it, you can do with it what you like. Banning vacant ground is retarded

I demand you where pink dotted undies outside of your pants, using your logic, in my opinion it would benefit the area and at least attract the knife welding ladyboys .

Korn told The Nation yesterday that the draft legislation for the property tax is already there. It only needed to be passed by Parliament but the Yingluck government dropped it. Korn said with the powers it has, the [current] military government could finish it within a week,.

I don't think most Thai people could afford to pay property taxes on their homes but taxes on speculative land would be a good thing. A lot of land is bought and held for years by rich people who have inside knowledge of government and private projects. Holding land in strategic locations stifles growth, if it isn't being used for agriculture and it is more than one rai, tax it.

Agree.

At Nana Skytrain station in Bangkok near Pacific place building (Soi 8 side) is a large piece of land right on Sukhumvit road that has been overgrown and used as a rubbish dump for at least 10 years as i know it.

It is in a prime downtown location that could be put to good use for the benefit of the area.

Either a bank is holding on to it, it is part of a property company's "Land Bank" or it is privately owned.

A tax on speculative land might be the motivation to develop this land for the benefit of the area.

Excavators clearing the site right now. Maybe your post was noticed.

 

The best reform Thailand can have with regard to inheritance tax is to replace it with an estate tax.

The inheritance tax which is based on who receives a deceased person's property and the tax is paid by the inheritor. The Testator can typically choose individual heirs carefully so as to avoid the inheritance tax altogether such as excluding children, grandchildren, brothers and sisters or nieces and nephews or friends as heirs.

The estate tax is based on the net value of property owned by a deceased person on the date of death and the tax is paid by the estate.The estate tax is collected only if the value of estate assets exceeds any estate tax exemption after applicable deductions such as executor expenses for things like funeral and administrative costs are applied and debts of the deceased. The US federal government has an estate tax. Each US state is free to establish their own additional "death taxes" but only about six states use an inheritance tax, albeit with virtual 100% exemption for surviving spouse.

Legislatively, the inheritance tax is more difficult than estate tax to prevent "playing" the system to avoid any taxes, more time consuming for taxation authorities to enforce and collect taxes, and more budernsome on the individual heirs to pay the tax. The inheritance tax further disdavantages the beneficiaries because it is independent of the debts owed by the deceased; and in Thailand the decease's debts might be passed onto the beneficiaries (ie., mortgage) while the beneficiary is still taxed on the full market value of the inheritance. As national economic conditions arise (ie., need to reduce federal deficits), the estate tax can easily be amended to achieve social engineering of the tax base. But the inheritance tax has no direct relationship to the national economy and is virtually unlimited as to the financial devices that can be used to avoid the tax completely.

 

I suggest you google "nett value" (the double "t" version is used to differentiate between those used to catch fish and butterflies).