Boundaries and good neighbours

[cooked]

Hells' bells and buckets of blood.

I set out the boundary line to our neighbour's property. he was in agreement with the pegs and the line that I had stretched out. I have to say that I had previously concreted a post in in the wrong place ( secret hidden chanote, not my fault), which I admitted to and pushed over (concrete was still fresh) so that we could reset the line. So, all afternoon, they were putting in posts, I came out and looked from time to time, I gave them beers. They know that I go to get my kid from school at 4 pm. When I went they were sat down and smoking. When I came back, the post that I had pushed back was broken, lying over on my side and they went away as soon as they saw me. I went and got the guy and showed him. He then lied, saying I had broken it.

For the first time in Thailand I lost it, I don't think that he will forget it, however he is the obertor here.

(one hour later). I finally got an apology. I had to drag him out of his lair, he was getting ready to fight, so was my wife. Instead of a fence I think I will be making a 2 meter wall on his side.

Looking forward to erudite comments here. ... (I am usually the guy that recommends staying calm - I was already thinking about going back home!..)

[Seastallion]

I'm not really sure what is going on here.

You "pushed back" a fresh concrete post....what does that mean? The post was then broken?

It sounds like you are angry that a post was broken. Is that a big deal? "He was getting ready to fight". Over a broken post?

I think a re-write is in order.

[samran]

So is there any actual disagreement on the boundary this time?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thai Visas first cooked crooked post!

[cooked]

OK. I pushed the post back so that we could set the line. It wasn't broken then.

I am angry because he exploited the hour of my absence to push the post over even further and break it. (by accident I presume). He ran away when I came back home, later told me that I had broken it and it took me an hour to get an apology which is all I wanted. Before that he wanted to fight.

[cooked]

So is there any actual disagreement on the boundary this time?

No. I think that I have already made him a present of 10 cm on a 60 meter line. You give them your little finger, they want your arm...

[AlexRRR]

2 meter high fence is an excellent idea keep the rabble out i say.

[h90]

I'm not really sure what is going on here.

You "pushed back" a fresh concrete post....what does that mean? The post was then broken?

It sounds like you are angry that a post was broken. Is that a big deal? "He was getting ready to fight". Over a broken post?

I think a re-write is in order.

After a couple of beers.....as it seems. Why people always start with the drinking while working....One gives the security guy beer, the other hands out beer (and maybe drinks himself) when making the border to the neighbor....

[Daffy D]

I'm not really sure what is going on here.

You "pushed back" a fresh concrete post....what does that mean? The post was then broken?

It sounds like you are angry that a post was broken. Is that a big deal? "He was getting ready to fight". Over a broken post?

I think a re-write is in order.

After a couple of beers.....as it seems. Why people always start with the drinking while working....One gives the security guy beer, the other hands out beer (and maybe drinks himself) when making the border to the neighbor....

And the guy who bought beer for his already drunk postman and now can't get rid of him

You wouldn't do it in Farang land why do it here

If you have a good crew working for you buy them a beer at the end of work on Friday only.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Daffy D

[ClutchClark]

So is there any actual disagreement on the boundary this time?

No. I think that I have already made him a present of 10 cm on a 60 meter line. You give them your little finger, they want your arm...

Might be time for a very high solid wall because walls make good neighbors.

I don't understand something. You set up a post at a property corner and then ran a stringline to another corner. Laborers then dug holes and set posts along the edge of the stringline. You were satisfied with the locations of these posts up until the time you left at 4:00. During your absence, the one cornerpost was pushed further inside your property and this pushed the stringline inside your property as well. All good so far?

How many additional posts were set in your absence? Were the previous posts that you approved also reset or had those already been set in concrete?

Unfortunately, the relationship between you and your neighbor has gone well beyond the point of an apology and handshake. My first recommendation would be to take a "breather".

Edited July 3, 2014 by ClutchClark

[h90]

I'm not really sure what is going on here.

You "pushed back" a fresh concrete post....what does that mean? The post was then broken?

It sounds like you are angry that a post was broken. Is that a big deal? "He was getting ready to fight". Over a broken post?

I think a re-write is in order.

After a couple of beers.....as it seems. Why people always start with the drinking while working....One gives the security guy beer, the other hands out beer (and maybe drinks himself) when making the border to the neighbor....

And the guy who bought beer for his already drunk postman and now can't get rid of him

You wouldn't do it in Farang land why do it here

If you have a good crew working for you buy them a beer at the end of work on Friday only.

Even better, give them everyone 100 Baht tip. I love to drink. But never mix work and alcohol.

[cooked]

Well I said beers, but they only got one each, at 11am. Same as I did with my employees in 'Farang land' if they wanted. The remark above about the 10 cm is in ignorance of the fact that I had given them 10 cm knowingly before this happened.

[trainman34014]

Usually lies first then if lies proven the gun comes out next as loss of face will not be tolerated....especially where Farang is involved. Look at things on the bright side; you escaped with your life and one broken post.

I've never given a Thai workman at my house beer neighbour or otherwise, either during a job or after it's finished as it's just plain daft to do so. Don't ever think that they think you are a nice man because they just think you're stupid with your money. I know because Thai wife told me so !

[weegee]

OP....I really feel sorry for you. Go put up a concrete wall between you and him thats at least 2 mtrs high. They cant shift the boundary then without you knowing.

Dont put up a tin fence....they will move it and take the excess tin sheeting....lol

[spidermike007]

OK. I pushed the post back so that we could set the line. It wasn't broken then.

I am angry because he exploited the hour of my absence to push the post over even further and break it. (by accident I presume). He ran away when I came back home, later told me that I had broken it and it took me an hour to get an apology which is all I wanted. Before that he wanted to fight.

I think what you are addressing is the average Thai mans ability to deal with truth. Why so many are willing to resort to lying, to get out of a situation, or as a way of dealing with their problems, is beyond my ability to understand. There seems to be something inherent within the culture that allows them to think lying is OK behavior. What is that? I do not even want to hear about face. It is the behavior of an absolute coward. Only cowards refuse to look within, and admit fault. So, face is used to get out of admitting fault, basically. The defamation laws are essentially the same thing. I will lie to you, steal your money, and then when confronted about the crime I committed later, use the weak, dastardly, cowardly defamation laws, to deflect blame. But, why are so many willing to lie, as a way of dealing with a problem, or when confronted with evidence of their guilt? Bizarre behavior, if you ask me.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[PiPiFFS]

I'm at a loss as to why you think you have the right to decide just where the boundary line lies ? Are you a surveyor back home ? Did you use a theodolite to decide where to put the posts ? The chanote posts that have been on all the land I have owned were put there by the land department.

I also fail to see how you propose to build a 2 meter high wall on HIS side ?

Whats wrong with building it on YOUR side ?

[NoshowJones]

OK. I pushed the post back so that we could set the line. It wasn't broken then.

I am angry because he exploited the hour of my absence to push the post over even further and break it. (by accident I presume). He ran away when I came back home, later told me that I had broken it and it took me an hour to get an apology which is all I wanted. Before that he wanted to fight.

In normal circumstances, if someone wants to fight, just lift the nearest object that can be used as a weapon and hit him with it. there is not such a thing as a fair fight. If someone wants to fight you and it is unprovoked, he deserves all he gets. But for obvious reasons, this does not apply to Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

In New England we have a tradition called "walking the boundary lines".

I believe it comes from an old English tradition of doing something similar called "Riding the Bounds".

It's usually done in the Spring, when the weather is finally good enough to go out in the fields and walk the boundary lines with your neighbor.

Ideally it is done over a few of cans of beer, and friendly conversation, so both of you can see where the boundary line is (See, that tree there, that's where the boundary is, isn't it ?)

The Vermont poet Robert Frost wrote a poem about it.

His famous line from that poem is, "Good fences make good neighbors".

Good fences make good neighbors.

[cooked]

I'm at a loss as to why you think you have the right to decide just where the boundary line lies ? Are you a surveyor back home ? Did you use a theodolite to decide where to put the posts ? The chanote posts that have been on all the land I have owned were put there by the land department.

I also fail to see how you propose to build a 2 meter high wall on HIS side ?

Whats wrong with building it on YOUR side ?

Oh dear, I will start again. We have chanotes. I was a surveyor back home, as well as being a civil engineer. I used a level to view the line, not a theodolite, you don't need a theodolite to see in a straight line. Maybe I have a copy of my BSc (eng) somewhere. I am not proposing to build a wall on his side, I originally put ONE post in wrongly, discovered a third chanote and immediately, in good humour, moved it, but didn't pull it out. The guy waited on the 90 minute window that happens every day when I am absent to break a post that was in his way but he couldn't wait until I get back. His fence is crappy bamboo, and could have waited. Broken post? Doesn't matter. This post is about cowardly behaviour.

[ClutchClark]

I'm at a loss as to why you think you have the right to decide just where the boundary line lies ? Are you a surveyor back home ? Did you use a theodolite to decide where to put the posts ? The chanote posts that have been on all the land I have owned were put there by the land department.

I also fail to see how you propose to build a 2 meter high wall on HIS side ?

Whats wrong with building it on YOUR side ?

Oh dear, I will start again. We have chanotes. I was a surveyor back home, as well as being a civil engineer. I used a level to view the line, not a theodolite, you don't need a theodolite to see in a straight line. Maybe I have a copy of my BSc (eng) somewhere. I am not proposing to build a wall on his side, I originally put ONE post in wrongly, discovered a third chanote and immediately, in good humour, moved it, but didn't pull it out. The guy waited on the 90 minute window that happens every day when I am absent to break a post that was in his way but he couldn't wait until I get back. His fence is crappy bamboo, and could have waited. Broken post? Doesn't matter. This post is about cowardly behaviour.

The post is more accurately about not dealing with his crappy behavior in a manner that would be most successful to your immediate goal nor the long term relationship with your neighbor.

Thanks for the more detailed explanation of how you established line but I am surprised you did not know to locate the extra chanote originally? Would it not have been called out in the original description? I am still curious if every single post was moved in your absence or just those yet to be set when you left? With any luck, the encroachment is not as bad as you originally feared.

I am surprised you chose not to traverse your boundary--whats to say those chanotes were not manipulated by your neighbor in previous years?

Edited July 3, 2014 by ClutchClark

[samran]

I'm at a loss as to why you think you have the right to decide just where the boundary line lies ? Are you a surveyor back home ? Did you use a theodolite to decide where to put the posts ? The chanote posts that have been on all the land I have owned were put there by the land department.

I also fail to see how you propose to build a 2 meter high wall on HIS side ?

Whats wrong with building it on YOUR side ?

Oh dear, I will start again. We have chanotes. I was a surveyor back home, as well as being a civil engineer. I used a level to view the line, not a theodolite, you don't need a theodolite to see in a straight line. Maybe I have a copy of my BSc (eng) somewhere. I am not proposing to build a wall on his side, I originally put ONE post in wrongly, discovered a third chanote and immediately, in good humour, moved it, but didn't pull it out. The guy waited on the 90 minute window that happens every day when I am absent to break a post that was in his way but he couldn't wait until I get back. His fence is crappy bamboo, and could have waited. Broken post? Doesn't matter. This post is about cowardly behaviour.

Set up one of those webcams from the advantage of your roof I guess. Cheap as chips. Saves the he said she said.

[PiPiFFS]

Being a surveyor back home doesn't mean jack s#it here so you telling the guy where he can put the fence is still worthless. if you have a chanote for the land then the chanote posts should already be there. If not then the land department needs to come and reposition them for you.

Sounds to me you are just giving it the big I farang you Thai crap

[Daffy D]

Just a thought.

Have you had the land office come and confirm the markers?

Seems if there are several chanotes being banded about it could lead to problems in the future.

I would certainly get the boundary officially confirmed before going any further.

[whiteman]

Just a thought.

Have you had the land office come and confirm the markers?

Seems if there are several chanotes being banded about it could lead to problems in the future.

I would certainly get the boundary officially confirmed before going any further.

100% CORRECT

[NeverSure]

I truly worry that something very bad could happen to you if you keep having these highly emotionally charged confrontations with Thai men, and cause them to think they lost face.

[cooked]

As I wrote originally, this was the first time I lost it in Thailand. The skunk knew that he had done wrong and went to hide, I had to talk to his wife in broken (shattered) Thai.

The chanotes were paid for by this neighbour, I am disputing nothing about that, only the fact that he took advantage of the fact that I had to leave for 90 minutes as I do every day to break a post so he could bang up a crappy bamboo fence that could have waited. The SIL and me will be concreting in posts next week and I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me, we have a few men in this compound that know all about this guy's dishonesty. My wife picked up a piece of rebar during the 'discussion '. The best advice I have received from the village big lady was to get the fence done as quickly as possible.

[ClutchClark]

As I wrote originally, this was the first time I lost it in Thailand. The skunk knew that he had done wrong and went to hide, I had to talk to his wife in broken (shattered) Thai.

The chanotes were paid for by this neighbour, I am disputing nothing about that, only the fact that he took advantage of the fact that I had to leave for 90 minutes as I do every day to break a post so he could bang up a crappy bamboo fence that could have waited. The SIL and me will be concreting in posts next week and I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me, we have a few men in this compound that know all about this guy's dishonesty. My wife picked up a piece of rebar during the 'discussion '. The best advice I have received from the village big lady was to get the fence done as quickly as possible.

The war drums are beating so loudly that you can't hear what any of us have cautioned.

[NeverSure]

As I wrote originally, this was the first time I lost it in Thailand. The skunk knew that he had done wrong and went to hide, I had to talk to his wife in broken (shattered) Thai.

The chanotes were paid for by this neighbour, I am disputing nothing about that, only the fact that he took advantage of the fact that I had to leave for 90 minutes as I do every day to break a post so he could bang up a crappy bamboo fence that could have waited. The SIL and me will be concreting in posts next week and I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me, we have a few men in this compound that know all about this guy's dishonesty. My wife picked up a piece of rebar during the 'discussion '. The best advice I have received from the village big lady was to get the fence done as quickly as possible.

"I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me,"

Right there. What good is that belief going to do you for the first 60 seconds after he shows up with 10 other Thai men to get revenge?

[cooked]

As I wrote originally, this was the first time I lost it in Thailand. The skunk knew that he had done wrong and went to hide, I had to talk to his wife in broken (shattered) Thai.

The chanotes were paid for by this neighbour, I am disputing nothing about that, only the fact that he took advantage of the fact that I had to leave for 90 minutes as I do every day to break a post so he could bang up a crappy bamboo fence that could have waited. The SIL and me will be concreting in posts next week and I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me, we have a few men in this compound that know all about this guy's dishonesty. My wife picked up a piece of rebar during the 'discussion '. The best advice I have received from the village big lady was to get the fence done as quickly as possible.

"I can assure you guys that the neighbour has more to fear than me,"

Right there. What good is that belief going to do you for the first 60 seconds after he shows up with 10 other Thai men to get revenge?

He won't. My dad is bigger than his dad. He has no friends or family in the village apart from his wife, two daughters and a Katoey

[NanLaew]

I'm at a loss as to why you think you have the right to decide just where the boundary line lies ? Are you a surveyor back home ? Did you use a theodolite to decide where to put the posts ? The chanote posts that have been on all the land I have owned were put there by the land department.

I also fail to see how you propose to build a 2 meter high wall on HIS side ?

Whats wrong with building it on YOUR side ?

Oh dear, I will start again. We have chanotes. I was a surveyor back home, as well as being a civil engineer. I used a level to view the line, not a theodolite, you don't need a theodolite to see in a straight line. Maybe I have a copy of my BSc (eng) somewhere. I am not proposing to build a wall on his side, I originally put ONE post in wrongly, discovered a third chanote and immediately, in good humour, moved it, but didn't pull it out. The guy waited on the 90 minute window that happens every day when I am absent to break a post that was in his way but he couldn't wait until I get back. His fence is crappy bamboo, and could have waited. Broken post? Doesn't matter. This post is about cowardly behaviour.

Oh dear, what about the OP's crappy behaviour from the get go? After wrongly planting a post in the neighbours land, you 'in good humour' pushed it further into his property. Maybe you used your foot to do this? Oh dear, shows a lack of respect right there. And then you left it like that but hung about most of the day 'checking' and getting the labour buzzed on beer... just because you do this back home.

I would wager the neighbour watched you coming and going all day and doing absolutely nothing about your post still planted in his land. That got him more pissed off so he dispatched the labour who probably did break your confounded post and threw it back over on your side.

The right thing would have been to have taken the time and effort (Buddha knows you have enough of the former) to remove YOUR post from HIS land in the first place. Then the line could have been free and clear for even pissed up labour to plant the correct posts.

The OP may think the neigbour is a coward but the neighbour probably thinks the OP is an arse and already planning a karaoke or 24-hour motorcycle repair shop bar right beside the new fence line. I know I would if I was him.