Wastewater 'triggers US quake surge'

[impulse]

34 years in O&G here, and if anyone says the energy industry does any more than pay lip service to environmental issues is barking.

They do the bare minimum necessary to avoid any impact on the bottom line. If they're caught, they will bury it in legal action and "lobbying" (better known as bribes) to get away with the minimum penalties.

The sad reality is that I can't point to any industry segment where that isn't true. And if they don't mine or manufacture anything that pollutes, they're shirking other laws and responsibilities.

Pick up a newspaper. GM hid deadly defects for decades, Glaxo is on the hook for bribing Chinese doctors to the tune of $$$ hundreds of millions, PNB is being fined $9 Billion for laundering dirty money, ADM and others are in the news for price fixing, someone is killing the world's honeybees, and the list goes on and on.

[Diablo Bob]

Where to start... First thaiwest, I've never felt an earthquacke either, so they must not exist. And Texas is a pretty big state too. Impulse, the New Madrid and San Andreas, luckily are not near fracking sites so they don't get the 'benefit' of small prepatory quakes. Lucky Pennsilvania, West Virginia, and New York State are near where a lot of fracking goes on so they do get a lot of 'helpful?' fracking quakes as well as mud slides and horribly polluted ground water. Lots of fresh water is wasted pumping into these wells and gets mixed with chemicals which make the left over water toxic which then mixes with the nearby DRINKING water to, enhance the flavor? I like my oil and gas, but there has to be some boundaries!

Coldmike,

You might want to read the following about fracking in California:

http://science.kqed.org/quest/2012/04/12/fracking-in-california-any-cause-for-concern/

http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.com/business/x1801991983/State-loosens-fracking-ban-near-Taft

Taft is aroung 15Km from the San Andreas fault.

The first arcticle is quite interesting in reference to shallow seismic events in Long Beach.

You are right about the San Andreas not getting the benefit of small prepatory quakes ....... they are large prepatory quakes.

[poweratradio]

What a loud of armchair beer induced swillin this total thread full of no it all's and holier than thou's opinions based on documentaries and Nature of Things with David Suzuki science hour.

Wake up Geo techs the earth plates are floating on molten lava and anything can cause quakes and tremors.

This old wives tale has been around since the deep coal mine days too. Make a big hole and it weakens the earth ha ha ha

I'm in the biz over 30 years. Proud of it.

We have done immeasurable harm to the environment, including sinking parts of Long Beach California by over 26' (http://www.longbeach.gov/oil/subsidence/story.asp). Some damage was because we didn't understand what was happening, some because it was a different world 80 years ago, and some out of plain old greed.

But we're not alone, as the withdrawals of water for agriculture, industrial, and domestic use has probably done a lot more damage- along with hard rock and coal mining and their waste products. And of course, the users of these products (taht's all of us) do their own damage that dwarfs any harm we did extracting them from the ground.

There is, in fact, convincing evidence that what's being done in the oil, mining and water industries is creating seismic events. But as I kidded about on a previous post, that may just be accelerating events that were going to happen anyway. The jury is still out.

On your "make a big hole and it will weaken the earth", you really need to do some research before poo-pooing the idea. There are regular surface collapses in areas around the world that have significant mining tunnels, not to mention whole mountains that have been on fire for decades, and surface subsidence all over from groundwater withdrawals. And they all result in seismic events- AKA earthquakes.

You have broadcast your swill...now go back to your room and behave or no supper for you!

[poweratradio]

Water on Limestone is what causes sink holes.

[ClutchClark]

Could be but most of that overgrazing occurred back before the Grazing Act of 1934 when there was still "Open Range". Most ranchers in my region of CO/WY have owned that land since it was first patented--well, owned some and leased grazing rights for the rest. Its a culture for them and they are in it for the long haul.

Oil companies aren't. They are in it up until the moment its sucked dry and then they are gone.

Yup, and then we're gone. The land is returned to its original state, and you can't even tell we've been there. (Okay, we're not perfect, but it works pretty well that way nowadays- like ranching, it wasn't always that way).

Come on now Impulse. "Original" state. Sometimes in some locations--sure--typically when said energy company is attempting to get more leases and they want to show they are responsible--and they are more responsible than they once were but that is due to regulations and not some interest by the oil company.

I am not saying that employees of Big Oil are indifferent to clean up and remediation, in fact, its typically because the employees live in the vicinity that they do care--but Big Oil is interested in profit--and only profit til death do them part. If they spend money on clean-up then its because it is an investment the same as PR stunts. When given the choice and when no legislation and enforcement is there to make them do it--then you wind up with the issues in Africa with Shell and I take it you have not spent any time on Sakhalin?

I am on your side, Impulse, but much of the groundwater contamination today is sourced from old wells that were not properly capped.

Your complaints about ranchers blocking public access and the like are topics outslde the discussion of environmental stewardship and I still hold that ranching is a culture and they fully intend to keep their property in the family for future generations and have an incentive to keep it clean--particularly groundwater sources.

Oil companies have no such investment and could care a less what happens once they pull out.

As for how well they clean up is yet to be seen since the vast majority of their wells are new in the past few years.

Cheers

[impulse]

-This old wives tale has been around since the deep coal mine days too. Make a big hole and it weakens the earth ha ha ha

-You have broadcast your swill...now go back to your room and behave or no supper for you!

-Water on Limestone is what causes sink holes.

Took about 3 minutes of Googling to find these examples that you're wrong. Do a little research. Just a little. That's all it takes.

Source: http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/Issues/MetalsMining/block-caving-underground-mining-method.html

Source: http://www.dep.state.pa.us/msi/whatisms.html#9pics

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidence