Thai customs to enforce duty-free limits on overseas purchases

[SABloke]

So how do I prove my expensive watch is not new? Take a photo of my watch next to the Bangkok Post on the day I leave? Ridiculous and unenforceable if you ask me.

[tkramer]

Apparently 2nd-hand watches can be taxed as well.

[Thai at Heart]

Think about all those Koreans who take short golfing vacations to Thailand. They come in with new equipment, balls, shoes, etc., and then they're taxed up the kazoo. Bye, bye to Thailand as a golfing vacation destination. Same might apply to anybody coming to a resort with a tennis racket and tennis shoes. Tax, tax, tax. Oh, well, with all the empty rooms that will result from this policy at resorts, it should improve the crowding and service.

Which is why you know that this is going to be one of those Thai laws that will be used very selectively to crack down on something or to extort people selectively.

[Jonmarleesco]

'The Suvarnabhumi Airport Passenger Control Customs Bureau will calculate the value of all personal items ...'

This amuses me. Valuations based on what, exactly? I've experienced Thai Customs' idea of calculating the value of goods, before, and it was neither pretty nor accurate.

[Saradoc1972]

Ok folks, I am after browsing through that other post. Translation legalese to English below:

This is an OLD regulations that has been in effect for a long time. The press just reported on customs' intend to be more strict about it.

It will affect mostly Thais leaving Thailand and returning from abroad with some goodies they bought there. The customs-exempt value is 10k Baht, more or less in line with that for most Europeans returning to their home country after a vacation with their souvenirs (i.e. "new" goods, even if you have worn all shirts that Thai tailor made for you while you were there). Here it's 350 €, the UK apparently raised that a little.

So that is the limit where you won't be taxed at all (I'll be using "taxed" here referring to both import sales tax and custom duties). There obviously is a leeway in that customs won't know if you bought something abroad, especially clothing, so you can in practice get away with much more. The rule would not apply to things a traveller is assumed to have taken out of the country first when going on that vacation, e.g. your suitcase. There is much discretion here for customs, they will normally not bother with that stuff, in theory they could.

On the other hand they might doubt the watch you are wearing was an old hand-me-down from grandpa and assume you bought it new abroad, that's what the "certificate of identity" is for. And it would be "new" in this context even if you bought a used watch from someone abroad as there have never been any import duties been levied on it in the country you are "importing" it to. A really expensive watch would be worthwhile for customs to bother with, as opposed to your run-of-the-mill suitcase in the shape it leaves the conveyor belt.

THEN (second step) there is the 80k or 100k Baht limit under which all the "new" possessions you are bringing along will be "taxed" by a flat rate. That is because both evaluation of an object and it's classification under customs' schedules are a major hassle, open to appeals and all. So in the name of expediting procedures they'll slap a low flat rate on everything you brought along.

THEN (third step) if your "new" take-alongs (or those suspected to be new for lack of that certificate) exceed that 100k, there will be a full evaluation and categorization. Major hassle.

So for most of us western-looking obvious tourists there will be no difference from the hitherto practice, it's for Thai residents (and that might be the catch).

Mind, that all of this only affects personal effects, i.e. NOT the power tools you might need for your (hopefully legal) work in Thailand, NOT gifts brought along for Thai residents (the latter would obviously be difficult to discern from your personal gadgets). And you need to bring them along in your luggage IN PERSON, i.e. when you have them shipped to your Thai address a completely, totally different set of rules will apply.

Those limits will NOT go for a few select items subject to some sort of luxury tax, like alcohol, coffee, tobacco and petrol, for which there are different limits and the duties will be very high in the first place. (There are German cases of people having been indicted for mail-ordering coffee-pads from the Netherlands or cheaper cigarettes from the Czech Republic to be sent to Germany without notifying customs in writing, all inside even the EU. Petrol is exempt if it's in you car's main tank when crossing the border. Just examples, but you're beginning to see the joy of this.)

Those limits are meant to faciliate and expedite handling tourists, they will NOT go for merchandise you take along on your person, even if entering as a non-Thai reseident tourist. The decisive factor for that would be the quantity you take along in your personal lugage. I've seen a TV coverage on some Chinese visitors to Germany being singled out at customs for taking some 20 kg of novelty jewelry with them, some 600 pieces, and that spelt trouble as it was not deemed "personal effects" for obvious reasons. Those where merchants dodging customs.

"Carnets" are another story. It's when you register an item you bring along with customs and put down bail on the promise you'll take it outside the country within a given period.

Now, what that former thread, full of gibberish and misunderstandings, does NOT tell us, is who is customs-wise a "resident" of Thailand for whom those rules will apply. So that is open to discussion.

There are some leads http://www2.customs.go.th/Customs_Eng_2009/importing_used_secondhand_household_effects.jsp on Thai customs' webpages on that residence issue, with regard to relief for used(!) household goods, such as TVs or fridges.

It does e.g. state that even non-residents bringing such goods along will have to go through customs with them, and Non-Imm "O" travellers will not get that relief.

So, open for discussion: if you are e.g. a long term "non-resident" in Thailand, on your ED visa, a non-O, been working some 5 years here, will you still be allowed to take most anything along from your travels into the country tax-free, like tourists do? Can you do that even when entering for the first time on a 1-y-Non-Imm-O?

Anyone?

[arisaje]

This can only apply to Thai Citizens or Foreigners residing full-time in Thailand surely..!

If a person is on an Asian tour for business and stops in Hong Hong to buy some new clothes, before coming to Thailand for a week.......why would a visitor have to pay taxes in Thailand? They don't reside there, just visiting and Thailand doesn't have tax authority over that person legally.

Thats like saying i buy a new MacBook for work in Singapore, or a new Rolex in Dubai, then head to London for some meetings and the British customs bill me import tax on a $3000 computer or a $12,000 watch.....when a few days later i leave with those items again.

Strange story i must say...

[hawker9000]

It's not that it's such a strange story. It just sounds strange the way it's being told here. Wake me up when some tourist (as in, 'visitor' to Thailand) actually gets stopped, searched, and made to pay tax on his personal belongings (and notice I said 'personal belongings', not an attempt to bring in stuff they actually intended to sell commercially). This thread's really run on too long. 'Scaremongering at its finest.

[mrfaroukh]

I think the tourists have to come with a pair of underwear, couple of socks and few very old T shirts and shorts. All personal smart phone are more than 20 000, a lap top 20 000 and a small camera 10 000 or more, so what the hell should tourist bring with them.

[Shurup]

It's not a strange story but a strange law the way it's worded.

I haven't heard it actually happened to a tourist (visitor) but it's applicable to everyone arriving to Thailand and so it gives a "legal" way for the crooked custom officials to rip people off if they wish.

Besides, how do you define a visitor? Someone visiting the country once a year for a few weeks, twice a year for a few weeks each trip, 3 times, 4? In Canada is pretty clear, if you're not a citizen or a PR, then you're a visitor. Can the same rules be applied here? TIT so I don't think so.

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[Saradoc1972]

.

Besides, how do you define a visitor? Someone visiting the country once a year for a few weeks, twice a year for a few weeks each trip, 3 times, 4? In Canada is pretty clear, if you're not a citizen or a PR, then you're a visitor. [/snip]

Yep, that is exactly my question.

I suppose most people coming to Thailand will NOT have to worry about anything, stop the scaremongering.

But there might be some snatches once you take up some sort of residency (see the quote on Non-Imm-O holders with used household goods), and the same will probably go for Canada and Europe.

Might be for TV's "ask the lawyer", but I struggle with how to word this as the whole topic is a bit diffuse.

[belg]

what a crazy new law... thailand really does not want those quality tourists anymore, do they ...

[Saradoc1972]

Can everone please stop the "Thailand-has-gone-crazy-how-can-they-do-that-to-their-valued-tourists-woe-is-me" posts?

These are not helpful.

There is NO NEW CRAZY LAW and the age-old-regulations everyone rants about do not concern most of us. Period.

DO READ my lengthy post above, it should settle most any doubts on what this is all about. Took me more than an hour, damn it.

What we should be trying to find out together is IF some sort of long-term residency might factor in so this COULD become a problem for SOME of us, and how to get our ducks in a row in that circumstances.

Otherwise this thread is meaningless, so let's all try and pinpoint the factors that might prove problematic.

[isawasnake]

"Expensive new watches or bags worth more than B10,000 will be liable to duty, even if being worn." lol

I wonder how many times I will have to pay tax on my new watch, until it looks not new. Can I touch the side of it with sandpaper to avoid the charge. What if I put an old beat up band on a new rolex. The list goes on. What a joke. You can only enforce the enforceable; remember that Thailand. Talk about your seriously spoiled 12 year olds who are running this country. Boo hoo, I am rich beyond comprehension and not getting enough. What an abomination, it will never end.

Edited July 10, 2014 by isawasnake

[alyx]

I left Thailand this evening, planning to return in a couple of months.

Aware of the situation, I went to the customs, at departure, to show them the items I was taking out and intended to bring back.

I thought they were going to issue me with a letter proving that I was not trying to import new items in Thailand

They were quite surprised as they are only dealing with companies ( a lot of forms to fill ). They said that these were not new and it shouldn't be a problem.....saying that it was up to the officer in charge on the the day I would return.....As this was not good enough, not say kind of worrying, I insisted and they advised me to take a picture of myself in the airport, showing myself with my stuff, which I did but, again, it's kind of a lottery.

I guess that is fine when you come out of Thailand but what about people who arrive "loaded"?

[Saradoc1972]

I left Thailand this evening, planning to return in a couple of months.

Aware of the situation, I went to the customs, at departure, to show them the items I was taking out and intended to bring back.

I thought they were going to issue me with a letter proving that I was not trying to import new items in Thailand

They were quite surprised as they are only dealing with companies ( a lot of forms to fill ). They said that these were not new and it shouldn't be a problem.....saying that it was up to the officer in charge on the the day I would return.....As this was not good enough, not say kind of worrying, I insisted and they advised me to take a picture of myself in the airport, showing myself with my stuff, which I did but, again, it's kind of a lottery.

I guess that is fine when you come out of Thailand but what about people who arrive "loaded"?

Thanks for breaking that chain of "they've gone nutters"-posts!

I just phoned my buddy who is doing customs and this is all about NEW items (Neuware). There can be an argument about what is new, but it's mostly reserved for valuable stuff. Unless you are carrying goods for something commercial or goods looking like they might be.

What you were asking for at customs is a "certificate of identity", if you had said so it might have rung a bell with those officers.

They obviously don't get too many Thais carrying stuff of real value out of Thailand to then return and run into customs with that watch or s.th., so by reverse logic most farangs (definitely tourists) will be ok as they are not resident in Thailand.

But taking a photo and having invoices at the ready to show you and your valuables go way back is a first step to refute any notions those are "new" items.

[socksy01]

So if you are wearing an expensive watch, for example, bought six months ago, still in pristine condition, are the experts at customs able to tell how old it is?

No.

But in a pinch they'd just make you pay import duties and import sales tax and you can challenge that by later turning up with your invoice, and, in the case of a really expensive watch, the maker's certificate, the onus of proof being on you. Has happened.

Read my posts' signature below.

Good answer but how do you suppose I do that with my expensive Seiko received as a retirement present just under four years ago in the UK still in great nick as well maestro

[Saradoc1972]

Good answer but how do you suppose I do that with my expensive Seiko received as a retirement present just under four years ago in the UK still in great nick as well maestro

Exerpt vom German customs: http://www.zoll.de/DE/Privatpersonen/Reisen/Reisen-in-einen-Nicht-EU-Staat/Persoenliche-Gegenstaende/persoenliche-gegenstaende.html

Should you take high-value goods, e.g. sporting or camera equipment, computers, jewelry on your vacation, we recommend presenting prove to allay doubts as to the origin of the goods which may result in duties being attached. For this the Auskunftsblatt INF 3 für Rückwaren is used or the "Vereinfachte Nämlichkeitserklärung im Reiseverkehr" [simplified certificate of origin/identity for travelling purposes] (form 0330 only for re-entering Germany). The forms INF 3 and 0330 will be issued before exit upon presentation of the goods at every customs office.

You should describe the goods close enough to faciliate their identification on your return journey. Photos of jewelry, or details of the model and serial number of technical equipment might be helpful, as a guideline. Alternatively you can provide the original receipt or correspondence as proof, provided the item in question is adequately identified and proven to have been acquired in the EU.

Heck, have I thought about getting a job as a specialty translator?

Same in New Zealand: http://www.customs.govt.nz/inprivate/sendingitemstonz/giftsandbelongings/Pages/default.aspx# sub "Duty free goods exports and return"

The English terms are a bit muddled up and come nowhere close to the beauty of the German terms so googling "certificate of indentity" yields a lot of crap on how you can identifiy yourseld with your driving licence and so on, "certificate of export" gets you a lot of stuff on sales tax and a good number of things I never heard about (phytohygienic... WHAT? Irish spuds?)

Her Majesty's Custom an Revenue Office and Border Force have however deigned to publish a leaflet with a toll-free number you could call (and possibly report back here). https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/travelling-to-the-uk

I'd just re-enter the UK as you are and in a pinch you could appeal against attached duties and import sales tax (on estimated value depreciated according to age and state of use) within one month stating "why you are unhappy" http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/baggagechecks/index.htm#6 and get your former colleagues as witnesses or something.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[Aldebaran1981]

Just came back. Walked thru customs without any hitch

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[daveAustin]

mad country this is. Please bring back some "logic".

bring back??

[socksy01]

Thank you Saradoc for the update. Appreciated.

[ggold]

mad country this is. Please bring back some "logic".

bring back??

I'm sorry Sir, you can't bring that logic into the country unless you can prove you got here first, unless you pay a duty on that logic, we will have to confiscate it!

[Shurup]

Just came back. Walked thru customs without any hitch

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Did you have any large suitcases with you or just a backpack?

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

[Aldebaran1981]

Just came back. Walked thru customs without any hitch

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Did you have any large suitcases with you or just a backpack?

Sent from one of my mobiles, whatever mobile it is.

I had a large suitcase with me. And in striking lime green!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[tropo]

Thb 10000,-

I gone to save a lot of money, no six pair of new shoes to wifey, no foreign souvenirs, presents or chocolate to the family!

You must be buying your lady cheap shoes. One moderately priced dress and a pair of shoes can easily get you to 10,000 baht.