First reports of new overstay crackdown

[Lancelot]

One Thaivisa member who visited Mukdahan Immigration Office for his retirement extension, reported that he was asked to sign the form confirming that he was aware of the new rules regarding overstay.

I don't have a problem of being made aware of Over Stay regulations. However, I suspect that some over stayers have not see the inside of an Immigration office in years. I make it my business to be in Thailand legally.


In addition to this, upon completing his retirement extension, he was also asked to mark where his house was on Google maps. The Immigration official then placed a marker on the Google map entry with the individual's name and case number.

Again, not a problem. It would be easy to use the data to high light areas of retiree/long term foreign residents. If TAT was on the ball, they might interview some expats, asking them why they liked/disliked Thailand.

I have always felt that my life in Thailand was temporary, subject to the whims of officials. I don't care if they deport me because I have blue eyes, or don't have blue eyes, its just the way it is. One of the reasons that I would never invest more in Thailand than I am prepared to lose. My biggest purchase here was a second handCBR250- and it was stolen soon after purchase

Many folks have found a new home and I'm happy for them. I find that I am merely tolerated and I'm OK with that

[fauxie]

Whilst I agree it is unlikely, its not impossible.

For example, lets consider somebody who has been on a year of overstay sometime in the last 3 years, what is going to happen next time they enter Thailand? Under the new system that year of overstay buys them 3 years out of the country.

I would like to think that anyone processed under the old system is clean and clear once they pay the fine, but who knows? We see time and time again immigration laws being interpreted differently depending on the immigration officer we are dealing with at the time.

I guess only time will tell whether its being retroactively applied.

See, this is me, in that scenario you've described. After my initial fright, because I'm arriving on August 13th (!), I realised I should be fine because it's for new overstays, but what you're saying isn't totally inconceivable. I have an overstay in the last few years and this is my first time returning to Thailand, right after this new law comes into being. I'm calling a consulate here today for some further reassurance, but really it's always ultimately down to the officer on the day. I'll be sweating until I get there, pretty much no matter what anyone says to reassure me before then.

[smedly]

Whilst I agree it is unlikely, its not impossible.

For example, lets consider somebody who has been on a year of overstay sometime in the last 3 years, what is going to happen next time they enter Thailand? Under the new system that year of overstay buys them 3 years out of the country.

I would like to think that anyone processed under the old system is clean and clear once they pay the fine, but who knows? We see time and time again immigration laws being interpreted differently depending on the immigration officer we are dealing with at the time.

I guess only time will tell whether its being retroactively applied.

See, this is me, in that scenario you've described. After my initial fright, because I'm arriving on August 13th (!), I realised I should be fine because it's for new overstays, but what you're saying isn't totally inconceivable. I have an overstay in the last few years and this is my first time returning to Thailand, right after this new law comes into being. I'm calling a consulate here today for some further reassurance, but really it's always ultimately down to the officer on the day. I'll be sweating until I get there, pretty much no matter what anyone says to reassure me before then.

They may scrutinise you more than other people, they may add extra stipulations on you depending on how long you are intending to stay, they may ask you to report to local immigration giving full details of where you are staying and for how long and report you movements if travelling - who knows

As long as you have a visa and air tickets that reflect your intentions then you will most likely have no issues - anything weird like not having a return flight or a visa that doesn't match your flight schedule - VOA (30 days) with a 6 month return flight might draw some unwanted attention

or they may do absolutely nothing

contacting a local consulate will be of absolutely no use at all - once in Thailand you under the scrutiny of the local immigration here

[p_brownstone]

1. Why have a form that acknowledges that you understand a law? The law is the law and if you transgress you get punished. Signing a form in advance does not/ should not make any difference.

I think it's quite clearly for a reason similar to that when you are waiting at a 'Plane Check-in and an Airline employee comes up and asks questions such as "did you pack this bag yourself?" "has anyone else has access to your bag since you packed it?" etc. etc..

If you answer "no" to these questions and later contraband or whatever is found in your bag you cannot reasonably claim it was put there by someone else.

So people are being asked to sign this Form to preclude any later claim that they did not know the penalties for Overstay.

Patrick

[fauxie]

Whilst I agree it is unlikely, its not impossible.

For example, lets consider somebody who has been on a year of overstay sometime in the last 3 years, what is going to happen next time they enter Thailand? Under the new system that year of overstay buys them 3 years out of the country.

I would like to think that anyone processed under the old system is clean and clear once they pay the fine, but who knows? We see time and time again immigration laws being interpreted differently depending on the immigration officer we are dealing with at the time.

I guess only time will tell whether its being retroactively applied.

See, this is me, in that scenario you've described. After my initial fright, because I'm arriving on August 13th (!), I realised I should be fine because it's for new overstays, but what you're saying isn't totally inconceivable. I have an overstay in the last few years and this is my first time returning to Thailand, right after this new law comes into being. I'm calling a consulate here today for some further reassurance, but really it's always ultimately down to the officer on the day. I'll be sweating until I get there, pretty much no matter what anyone says to reassure me before then.

They may scrutinise you more than other people, they may add extra stipulations on you depending on how long you are intending to stay, they may ask you to report to local immigration giving full details of where you are staying and for how long and report you movements if travelling - who knows

As long as you have a visa and air tickets that reflect your intentions then you will most likely have no issues - anything weird like not having a return flight or a visa that doesn't match your flight schedule - VOA (30 days) with a 6 month return flight might draw some unwanted attention

or they may do absolutely nothing

contacting a local consulate will be of absolutely no use at all - once in Thailand you under the scrutiny of the local immigration here

That's what I expect, a little extra scrutiny, although to be honest with that overstay in the system I always expected to get that, even before these changes.

I don't have a return flight because I have my usual 1 year 'O' visa from marriage to a Thai. I know what you're saying about contacting the consulate here in the UK being useless, but it's just getting another opinion (I'm also e-mailing them for a second opinion from them) in an attempt to put my mind at ease as much as possible. I've got to work and live over this next 5 weeks and I can't be worrying every moment about this, feeling sick to my stomach. Just worrying when I'm on the flight and then approaching passport control will be plenty!

Edited July 9, 2014 by fauxie

[taotoo]

1. Why have a form that acknowledges that you understand a law? The law is the law and if you transgress you get punished. Signing a form in advance does not/ should not make any difference.

I think it's quite clearly for a reason similar to that when you are waiting at a 'Plane Check-in and an Airline employee comes up and asks questions such as "did you pack this bag yourself?" "has anyone else has access to your bag since you packed it?" etc. etc..

If you answer "no" to these questions and later contraband or whatever is found in your bag you cannot reasonably claim it was put there by someone else.

So people are being asked to sign this Form to preclude any later claim that they did not know the penalties for Overstay.

Patrick

I imagine lack of knowledge of the law isn't a defence and any such claim wouldn't work anyway.

[smedly]

Whilst I agree it is unlikely, its not impossible.

For example, lets consider somebody who has been on a year of overstay sometime in the last 3 years, what is going to happen next time they enter Thailand? Under the new system that year of overstay buys them 3 years out of the country.

I would like to think that anyone processed under the old system is clean and clear once they pay the fine, but who knows? We see time and time again immigration laws being interpreted differently depending on the immigration officer we are dealing with at the time.

I guess only time will tell whether its being retroactively applied.

See, this is me, in that scenario you've described. After my initial fright, because I'm arriving on August 13th (!), I realised I should be fine because it's for new overstays, but what you're saying isn't totally inconceivable. I have an overstay in the last few years and this is my first time returning to Thailand, right after this new law comes into being. I'm calling a consulate here today for some further reassurance, but really it's always ultimately down to the officer on the day. I'll be sweating until I get there, pretty much no matter what anyone says to reassure me before then.

They may scrutinise you more than other people, they may add extra stipulations on you depending on how long you are intending to stay, they may ask you to report to local immigration giving full details of where you are staying and for how long and report you movements if travelling - who knows

As long as you have a visa and air tickets that reflect your intentions then you will most likely have no issues - anything weird like not having a return flight or a visa that doesn't match your flight schedule - VOA (30 days) with a 6 month return flight might draw some unwanted attention

or they may do absolutely nothing

contacting a local consulate will be of absolutely no use at all - once in Thailand you under the scrutiny of the local immigration here

That's what I expect, a little extra scrutiny, although to be honest with that overstay in the system I always expected to get that, even before these changes.

I don't have a return flight because I have my usual 1 year 'O' visa from marriage to a Thai. I know what you're saying about contacting the consulate here in the UK being useless, but it's just getting another opinion (I'm also e-mailing them for a second opinion from them) in an attempt to put my mind at ease as much as possible. I've got to work and live over this next 5 weeks and I can't be worrying every moment about this, feeling sick to my stomach. Just worrying when I'm on the flight and then approaching passport control will be plenty!

ok so you are married and on a Type O, then no need for a return flight as you say, might be worth keeping some evidence of money at hand to show you can support yourself from outside Thailand during your stay (maybe a bank Statement from home)

In view of the extra info you have provided I would be willing to wager you won't have any issues - enjoy your extended holiday with your wife and don't worry you will be fine

[DrTuner]

1. Why have a form that acknowledges that you understand a law? The law is the law and if you transgress you get punished. Signing a form in advance does not/ should not make any difference.

I think it's quite clearly for a reason similar to that when you are waiting at a 'Plane Check-in and an Airline employee comes up and asks questions such as "did you pack this bag yourself?" "has anyone else has access to your bag since you packed it?" etc. etc..

If you answer "no" to these questions and later contraband or whatever is found in your bag you cannot reasonably claim it was put there by someone else.

So people are being asked to sign this Form to preclude any later claim that they did not know the penalties for Overstay.

Patrick

A somewhat similar form is what you sign when applying for an extension of stay based on marriage, after the papers have passed scrutiny. Well at Chonburi office anyway. Basically says if you lied, you're screwed. Last chance to bail out if trying to cheat.

[KarenBravo]

There will be a small side-effect from all this.

All airlines are going to insist on seeing an onward ticket out of Thailand if no Thai visa is in the passenger's passport.

This occurred before, (Australia and sometimes Singapore), but now all countries will do this as they will be legally liable if the passenger is not allowed in.

[FritsSikkink]

There will be a small side-effect from all this.

All airlines are going to insist on seeing an onward ticket out of Thailand if no Thai visa is in the passenger's passport.

This occurred before, (Australia and sometimes Singapore), but now all countries will do this as they will be legally liable if the passenger is not allowed in.

They were already liable.

[KarenBravo]

There will be a small side-effect from all this.

All airlines are going to insist on seeing an onward ticket out of Thailand if no Thai visa is in the passenger's passport.

This occurred before, (Australia and sometimes Singapore), but now all countries will do this as they will be legally liable if the passenger is not allowed in.

They were already liable.

You're missing my point. Previously, back to back visa exemptions were accepted, the airlines didn't check as everyone got in. Now, they will check.

[paz]

You're missing my point. Previously, back to back visa exemptions were accepted, the airlines didn't check as everyone got in. Now, they will check.

There is no requirement for airlines to check for back-to-back visa exempt entries. Also, Immigration has not said that back-to-back visa entries will be prohibited. They just said "abuse of the scheme" will not be tolerated. But actually in the airline information database it is still present the old rule of maximum of 3 months visa exempt stay each six.

Edited July 9, 2014 by paz

[Tomtomtom69]

You're missing my point. Previously, back to back visa exemptions were accepted, the airlines didn't check as everyone got in. Now, they will check.

There is no requirement for airlines to check for back-to-back visa exempt entries. Also, Immigration has not said that back-to-back visa entries will be prohibited. They just said "abuse of the scheme" will not be tolerated. But actually in the airline information database it is still present the old rule of maximum of 3 months visa exempt stay each six.

I've never heard of an airline checking a passenger's passport to see how long such passenger has stayed in Thailand in the past few months. Most airline staff wouldn't even know what to look for regarding the different types of Thai visas or if a Thai entry stamp is placed 6 pages behind the visa in question, but actually allows for a 90 day or longer stay, due to it being an extension of stay and thus not subject to the rules on back-to-back entries anyway.

So KarenBravo, I don't think you're right. They won't be checking but Thai immigration can subject passengers to greater scrutiny upon arrival.

[KarenBravo]

They will check to see if you have a visa (the sticker variety). You don't have one, they will want to see an onward ticket.

Nothing to do with checking a passport to see how long you stayed previously.

[taotoo]

They will check to see if you have a visa (the sticker variety). You don't have one, they will want to see an onward ticket.

Nothing to do with checking a passport to see how long you stayed previously.

But airlines have always done this anyway haven't they (I'm aware that some people sometimes don't get asked)?

[paz]

They will check to see if you have a visa (the sticker variety). You don't have one, they will want to see an onward ticket.

Nothing to do with checking a passport to see how long you stayed previously.

What we're trying to tell you, is that has been happening since many years already. There are countless threads and furious debates on the matter.

[KarenBravo]

In the last two decades flying to Phuket from a variety of destinations, the only places I have been asked to show an onward ticket when not having a visa is Australia and NZ (always) and Singapore (once).

Never from Indonesia, Burma, Vietnam, Korea, Kenya and a few others. This will change.

[bigsteve]

There will be a small side-effect from all this.

All airlines are going to insist on seeing an onward ticket out of Thailand if no Thai visa is in the passenger's passport.

This occurred before, (Australia and sometimes Singapore), but now all countries will do this as they will be legally liable if the passenger is not allowed in.

I have been quizzed on this in the past. Leaving UK with my daughter on her British passport on one way flight to Thailand, airline check in staff start to ask about our return flight. Showing my daughter's Thai passport obviously solves that one.

I have also been asked when travelling alone ( by a member of check in staff who presumably didn't understand / overlooked my visa). Pointing out my non-b then reassures them and no problem.

As KarenBravo states, this may well become the rule rather than the exception. ..

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hawker9000]

Why not just modify the Arrival Cards to include this acknowledgement? And/or the Departure Cards (that get left in your pp; 'think they're currently just blank on the reverse anyway)? Do they plan to have these forms in Russian, Chinese, Korean, etc., etc., etc.?

The rest of this whole "immigration smackdown" is so confusing, nebulous and discretionary. Overstay is, in contrast, a relatively straightforward matter. I think very few of us actually have any issues whatsoever with overstay enforcement - provided those with true hardship aren't tossed under the bus - but why does officialdom feel this peculiar need to be so meticulous about making sure everyone signs off on being aware of each of these particular penalties?

Edited July 10, 2014 by hawker9000

[KarenBravo]

Overstay is, in contrast, a relatively straightforward matter. I think very few of us actually have any issues whatsoever with overstay enforcement - provided those with true hardship aren't tossed under the bus

If you decide to visit / stay in a foreign land, it is incumbent upon you to make sure you have the funds to not only support yourself, but also meet the minimum requirements stated by the foreign country's law.

If you can't meet those requirements due to lack of money or, a change in circumstance, then you should go back to your home country.

Harsh, but necessary.

[thaibreaker]

"Therefore, it appears that the new regulations regarding blacklisting due to overstay are already in effect."

I disagree.

As indicated yesterday, and clearified by officials, these new rules will not be put into effect before earliest the end of this month. It should be reasonable to believe that such an important change at least would give the people affected a chance to "become legal".

I strongly believe this new form will be added as soon as possible everywhere, but for now just so everyone can read and understand what the consequences are for overstayers in the future.

They won`t put the penalties into effect before a given date, that probably will be announced soon.

It does not make any sense to just put the penalties into effect, before the new rules are better known and read country wide.

My opinion.

Edited July 10, 2014 by thaibreaker

[hawker9000]

Overstay is, in contrast, a relatively straightforward matter. I think very few of us actually have any issues whatsoever with overstay enforcement - provided those with true hardship aren't tossed under the bus

If you decide to visit / stay in a foreign land, it is incumbent upon you to make sure you have the funds to not only support yourself, but also meet the minimum requirements stated by the foreign country's law.

If you can't meet those requirements due to lack of money or, a change in circumstance, then you should go back to your home country.

Harsh, but necessary.

I agree, esp. WRT lacks of funds or just plain ignorance being the excuse offered, but was referring more to situations such as serious injury or illness just before the end of your stay, or perhaps having your passport stolen and having to wait for your embassy to either give you a new one or a temporary one to get you home. I'm not trying to dream up justifications actually; I've never overstayed myself and don't have any firsthand story to tell. And some who I've seen claim from time to time here on TV to have had such an excuse really didn't, in my own opinion. But I'm not willing to categorically state that there can't ever be sufficient justification for an unintended/unavoidable overstay. I'd be more inclined to agree that long overstays are almost always unacceptable though.

[KarenBravo]

Those emergencies you mention sound reasonable and are beyond the control of the individual, so, I agree with you.

[Mutato]

Hello everybody,

I have a question to which I could not find an answer to in the most recent posts.

I have a friend who has dual citizenship UK / Thai.

My friend entered the country on the UK passport and then got a Thai passport & ID and a one year visa for Thai citizens.

Later my friend was late for a 90 day report and the immigration officer asked to pay a rather high fee (about 30k). As we looked confused (I was there for my own 90day report) the officer said, that it was actually not a problem. Said that my friend could just stay on the Thai passport and it would be fine.

Now my friend has to leave the country and is not sure, what effect the new rule of overstaying will have.

Can my friend be banned from re entering Thailand?

Will my friend be asked to give up one of the citizenships?

What would you do: go to the local immigration or try and solve it at the airport?

Will my friend be fined at all and if, how much would it be?

I mean, my friend was never illegally in the country, right? Or would it be considered that since the entry was on the UK passport?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[paz]

Hello everybody,

I have a question to which I could not find an answer to in the most recent posts.

I have a friend who has dual citizenship UK / Thai.\

...

He/she cannot be banned, cannot be deported or anything like that, because he a Thai citizen with a natural right to entry.

He/she cannot be asked to give up any citizenship.

He/she has been fined because have entered on a foreign passport. Personally I think if he/she had appealed the fine to Justice, at the and would have had not to pay, or perhaps a smaller fine. That because Immigration applies the foreigner act to a Thai citizen, without true legal basis. Despite what some say, it is not that a Thai citizen waive his own constitutional rights just because has use a foreign passport when entering country.

However for peace of mind, and close the matter he/she should leave and re-enter using Thai pasport.

[TheAceFace]

This is getting scary now, having read the thread on the south border entries being refused.

Can anybody offer any advice ( I guess I am not the only O&G worker here on rotation )?

I will be returning to Thailand in 2 weeks and was planning on just regular tourist visa for 30 days, I do have a family in Thailand. I had Work permits before and been on a marriage visa, due to moving away for work I no longer hold these and just rely on the regular tourist one. I abide by the rules and do not overstay.

The nearest embassy to where I am working is Bahrain, should I apply for a Non O 60 day visa before returning or should I be ok with just the normal tourist one. The law is supposed to come in effect 12th Aug? I just would hate to be refused entry from immigration at the airport?

Pls advise.

[pathumseb]

I must say I am a little worried about my situation. I have worked in Thailand legal on 2 work permits and visited once for a holiday. I came home to do an M.Ed so I would not have the TCT on my back and because I wanted to play by the rules. I wonder if they will turn me away on a 60 day tourist visa and claim that I may decide to work again.

[MJCM]

This is getting scary now, having read the thread on the south border entries being refused.

Can anybody offer any advice ( I guess I am not the only O&G worker here on rotation )?

I will be returning to Thailand in 2 weeks and was planning on just regular tourist visa for 30 days, I do have a family in Thailand. I had Work permits before and been on a marriage visa, due to moving away for work I no longer hold these and just rely on the regular tourist one. I abide by the rules and do not overstay.

The nearest embassy to where I am working is Bahrain, should I apply for a Non O 60 day visa before returning or should I be ok with just the normal tourist one. The law is supposed to come in effect 12th Aug? I just would hate to be refused entry from immigration at the airport?

Pls advise.

Questions:

How many months is it between your stays ?

How long are you staying ?

When you arrive can you show a plane ticket that your leaving within the 30 days after arriving ?

Do you have a copy of your Marriage Certificate ?

I would take as many documents with me, this to prove that you are (as you say) working in O&G, the marriage Certificate would also be a +.

Edited July 10, 2014 by MJCM

[Brit_Doggie]

DoctorB If my info is correct on arrival in bkk you should report your address to the nearest immo within 24 hours

from then on you do your renewals/reporting at the same place.

[TheAceFace]

This is getting scary now, having read the thread on the south border entries being refused.

Can anybody offer any advice ( I guess I am not the only O&G worker here on rotation )?

I will be returning to Thailand in 2 weeks and was planning on just regular tourist visa for 30 days, I do have a family in Thailand. I had Work permits before and been on a marriage visa, due to moving away for work I no longer hold these and just rely on the regular tourist one. I abide by the rules and do not overstay.

The nearest embassy to where I am working is Bahrain, should I apply for a Non O 60 day visa before returning or should I be ok with just the normal tourist one. The law is supposed to come in effect 12th Aug? I just would hate to be refused entry from immigration at the airport?

Pls advise.

Questions:

How many months is it between your stays ?

How long are you staying ?

When you arrive can you show a plane ticket that your leaving within the 30 days after arriving ?

Do you have a copy of your Marriage Certificate ?

I would take as many documents with me, this to prove that you are (as you say) working in O&G, the marriage Certificate would also be a +.

Thanks for the reply:

I tends to work away 5 - 6 weeks

Normally stay 35 days, I get an extension when I am back (not a boarder run), not had issue in the past

I have a return ticket

I don't have a copy of my marriage cert...its at home, but I do have my wife and kids Thai passports with me

I can not see why I would be refused this time, but you never know and I am not even sure I will have time to get the visa in Bahrain as my flight time is tight and I will travel direct there from Saudi.

Pain in the A$$