South Thailand border crossings reports problems to enter with 60-days tourist visas "TR60"

[Jonathan Fairfield]

South Thailand border crossings reports problems to enter with 60-days tourist visas "TR60"

File photo: example of tourist visa

HAT YAI:-- [thaivisa.com] - Thaivisa.com has been made aware of a number of instances in southern Thailand of foreign nationals being refused entry into the Kingdom after trying to re-enter using a 60 day tourist visa, whilst also having a history of multiple previous visa exemptions (border runs) in their passports.

Immigration officials at the Sungaikolok, Tak Bai, Buketa, Sadao and Padang Besar border crossings started refusing entry early on Wednesday morning (9th July, 2014).

Thaivisa.com has been unable to officially confirm if these reports are part of new orders from the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok.

However, a senior Immigration officer based in southern Thailand, who did not wish to named, said that the Immigration officers at the border crossings in question are under strict orders to enforce Thailand’s existing rules and regulations regarding foreigners entering the Kingdom.

It seems that Immigration officers at Sungaikolok, Tak Bai, Buketa, Sadao and Padang Besar are actively trying to distinguish between genuine tourists and individuals who reside in Thailand long term using the incorrect visa type - a tourist visa.

Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry.

Foreigners in Thailand should be reminded that it has always been the case that entry to Thailand is at the discretion of Immigration officers.

However, these latest reports follow on from a series of ‘crackdowns’ on border runners and overstayers and it now seems the Immigration Bureau are ordering officers to follow the letter of the law with regards to ensuring foreigners enter Thailand with the correct visa.

We must also stress that we do not know if this is a temporary measure at the aforementioned border crossings or an indication of a permanent crackdown on foreigners using the incorrect visa class.

At the time of writing, we have had no reports of similar issues from other border crossings along the Thai-Malaysian border or from elsewhere in Thailand. We have no reports of issues entering on NON-Immigrant visas or entering on Tourist visa via an airport.

Thaivisa.com will keep you updated as soon as we receive more information on this matter.

-- 2014-07-10

[terryp]

i went thro Padang Besar last week and the imm guy was the worst i have ever had there ..i have a non o ret visa (hull) he looked at every visa stamp page at least 3 times and refused to give me the immigration card to enter thailand until he finnished this inspection ...i.ve been on Non O for over 10 years so you can tell it took time for this guy to do his intimidation....sadly it failed

[Deacon Bell]

I was in Chaeng Wattana Immigration yesterday for a non-Visa matter, the officer wasn't pleased with my 3 one year Non-O Multi-Entry Visas and told me to get an extension.

There's a massive cracking down going on now, and now people with valid Tourist Visas are being turned away.... perhaps they will also cap the amount of Non-Imm Multi Entry visas soon and you will have to get an Extension of Stay (with proof of funds etc. to stay here.)

Hopefully these people can fly in and enter that way, using their Tourist Visa to do so.

[ubonjoe]

I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non immgrant visas were turned away there along with tourist visas. They were asking for tickets out of the country.

There have been reports for weeks now of people being turned back all crossings in the South. It seems to me it is something coming out of the region 6 office.

They have been asking for tickets out of the country and/or financial proof (cash in hand in most cases).

[MrWorldwide]

I'm still waiting for reports of people being turned away from the airports - the land borders are an obvious target if you are looking to catch visa runners. I also wonder if the Immi officer who gave terryp a hard time would be prepared to do so if he had a line of a hundred or so tourists fresh off a flight behind him. When this hits the airports - even in the current lowest of low seasons - it wont just be TVers complaining.

At the risk of being flamed, I strongly suspect that the 'cranky' Immigration officers are being pressured from above to make this crackdown real, not the usual dog-and-pony show but I guess time will tell if the old skepticism is warranted or not. Worst case, they have quotas ......

[lostsoul49]

I am about to get into the car and drive to Korat immigration for my third year of non imm 'o' visa. i am married to a Thai and I have sufficient funds...

Do you think I will have a problem? Because it seems the immigration officials are not trained properly and seem to be labouring under the impression that they have to make it super hard for all farang to stay here now.

I suppose I will find out in the next hours.... Seems as though reading through these comments it is looking like each immigration officer is a law unto himself.

Wish me luck.

[MrWorldwide]

@ubonjoe, this brings me back to what I said earlier in the week re being 'too scared to leave the country' - at no stage during my adventures at Jomtien Immigration have I been asked for flights or the 10-40K cash people are being asked to show at the borders. I want to see just how far they are prepared to go with this crackdown.

[ubonjoe]

I am about to get into the car and drive to Korat immigration for my third year of non imm 'o' visa. i am married to a Thai and I have sufficient funds...

Do you think I will have a problem? Because it seems the immigration officials are not trained properly and seem to be labouring under the impression that they have to make it super hard for all farang to stay here now.

I suppose I will find out in the next hours.... Seems as though reading through these comments it is looking like each immigration officer is a law unto himself.

Wish me luck.

There have been no reports of people applying for extensions of stay experiencing any additional checks or having problems getting them.

The tightening up is only for those making entries into the country.

[MrWorldwide]

I am about to get into the car and drive to Korat immigration for my third year of non imm 'o' visa. i am married to a Thai and I have sufficient funds...

Do you think I will have a problem? Because it seems the immigration officials are not trained properly and seem to be labouring under the impression that they have to make it super hard for all farang to stay here now.

I suppose I will find out in the next hours.... Seems as though reading through these comments it is looking like each immigration officer is a law unto himself.

Wish me luck.

Good luck in Cambo

Seriously, if you have problems please come back and let the rest of us know, but as I posted earlier I havent had to endure any of these shenanigans at Jomtien Immigration but you may need to be aware of a new requirement some have reported, It involves Google maps and knowing where you live - I'm a bit hazy on the specifics but it sounds like a lot of fun. Might be an idea to pull your address up in Google maps and familiarise yourself with the surrounding streets. Once again, we can thank dipshit Farang who've given them phony addresses in the past - way to go, guys.

[ubonjoe]

@ubonjoe, this brings me back to what I said earlier in the week re being 'too scared to leave the country' - at no stage during my adventures at Jomtien Immigration have I been asked for flights or the 10-40K cash people are being asked to show at the borders. I want to see just how far they are prepared to go with this crackdown.

This tightening up in no way affects those with extensions of stay or those who are applying for them. If a person has a valid re-entry permit for an extension of stay they will have no problem entering the country.

[terryp]

i have always done the leaving every 89 day route on my ret visa , but after my last episode i/'m thinking of going down the extension of stay route ..can anyone explaine the pros and cons ..as I am totally baffled by whats going on at the moment..refusing Non imm visa entry also tousit visas that have been processed and paid for at Thai consulates etc is getting beyond a joke

please PM me as it looks like the mods are haveing a bad hair day already

Edited July 10, 2014 by terryp

[ubonjoe]

Please no more off topic posts. This topic is only about border entries in the southern Thailand . Not visits to immigration offices and etc.

Off topic posts will be removed without notice.

[96tehtarp]

"Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry."

This indicates that solely being in possession of a valid tourist visa does not give foreigners a right to enter Thailand. It seems that a tourist visa alone does not provide automatic entry at the border.

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.

Until Thai Visa provides updates I would recommend anyone planning to enter Thailand at a land border crossing with a Tourist Visa to be prepared to prove they are bona fide tourists.

The burden of proof now seems to be on the tourist to prove that the purpose of the visit is tourism. Get prepared to provide the border crossing immigration officer with: prepaid itineraries on travel agent letterhead, prepaid hotel vouchers, proof of funds from overseas, prepaid airline tickets back to Australia, USA or your home country, Western Union receipts, ATM receipts, hotel brochures, tourist guide books, or even detailed handwritten notes in your tourist guide book to show where and how you plan to be a tourist.. etc. etc.

Be prepared and well documented to plead your case at the border to assure the immigration officer that you are a tourist. If you can, you might be OK.

Or am I almost completely incorrect?

Edited July 10, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[pinkpanther99]

Nothing is being said officially yet, right?

Although, these crackdowns are just too much of a coincidence, there is something going on.

As others have said on this forum, maybe Thailand and its visa system is about to go through a massive change?

It will be interesting to see if this starts happening at any other border points in Thailand

Edited July 10, 2014 by pinkpanther99

[Deacon Bell]

i have always done the leaving every 89 day route on my ret visa , but after my last episode i/'m thinking of going down the extension of stay route ..can anyone explaine the pros and cons ..as I am totally baffled by whats going on at the moment..refusing Non imm visa entry also tousit visas that have been processed and paid for at Thai consulates etc is getting beyond a joke

For me (Married, using 12 month multi-entry Non O visas)

Pro:

No dealing with local immigration, not even once do I want to deal with them again.

No tying up money here or dealing with finances.

A holiday in Laos every 15 months.

A day ride on my bike and Duty Free every 90 days.

Cons...

For me, none, as of yet, as the extra money it costs annually isn't an issue.

[pinkpanther99]

"Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry."

This indicates that solely being in possession of a valid visa does not give foreigners a right to enter Thailand. It seems that a tourist visa alone does not provide automatic entry at the border.

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.

Until Thai Visa provides updates I would recommend anyone planning to enter Thailand at a land border crossing with a Tourist Visa to be prepared to prove they are bona fide tourists.

The burden of proof now seems to be on the tourist to prove that the purpose of the visit is tourism. Get prepared to provide the border crossing immigration officer with: prepaid itineraries on travel agent letterhead, prepaid hotel vouchers, proof of funds from overseas, prepaid airline tickets back to Australia, USA or your home country, Western Union receipts, ATM receipts, hotel brochures, tourist guide books, or even detailed handwritten notes in your tourist guide book to show where and how you plan to be a tourist.. etc. etc.

Be prepared and well documented to plead your case at the border to assure the immigration officer that you are a tourist. If you can, you might be OK.

Or am I almost completely incorrect?

Not sure. I took that to mean that regular bonafide tourists are ok and that this check is for people who have loads of in/out stamps AND tourist visas.

I don't think Thailand will start turning away genuine tourists at any point, but it does seem to want to get rid of the long term people who stay here on tourist visas but who aren't really tourists.

For example, I know a guy near me who has been on tourist visas and in/out stamps for the best part of 5 years!! 5 years!!

How many real 'tourists' do you know who go on holiday for 5 years?

I think it's people like that they are getting tough with.

[ubonjoe]

i have always done the leaving every 89 day route on my ret visa , but after my last episode i/'m thinking of going down the extension of stay route ..can anyone explaine the pros and cons ..as I am totally baffled by whats going on at the moment..refusing Non imm visa entry also tousit visas that have been processed and paid for at Thai consulates etc is getting beyond a joke

You just got in under the wire or your post would of been removed.

There is nothing but pro for getting an extension of stay based upon retirement. No more leaving the country every 90 days and having to go home every year for a new visa. Just apply for an extension and then a re-entry permit in one short trip to immigration once a year and make 90 day reports if you stay the country longer than 90 days.

[pinkpanther99]

And Ubon Joe is right. This is not about people on Non-O or extension of stay. It does not concern those people (myself included) whatsoever.

It is about people entering on TOURIST VISAS who also have a history of border runs.

Genuine tourists have no need to worry either.

Or am I mistaken?

[MrWorldwide]

Nothing is being said officially yet, right?

Although, these crackdowns are just too much of a coincidence, there is something going on.

As others have said on this forum, maybe Thailand and its visa system is about to go through a massive change?

It will be interesting to see if this starts happening at any other border points in Thailand

There's no coincidence about any of it, although in theory the crackdown wasnt supposed to come into effect until August 12. Ranong, Mukdahan, Mae Sai, various Cambodian land crossings whose names escape me - reports have been posted here for the last 2 weeks by my count. As I said earlier, what I personally havent seen are reports of large-scale bounces at the airports - when that happens I think we may have to accept that 'August 12' is here. AFAIK, the Thais signalled the crackdown back in late May and people were already claiming they were feeling the effects back then.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727092-thai-immigration-border-insecurity-mounts-as-tourist-visa-abuse-is-targeted/

“Since many tourists come to Thailand on a tourist visa and start to work illegally, we’ve decided that it’s time we became stricter in enforcing the law than we have been,” he said. “We have seen this problem for a long time but we have never bothered dealing with it before. But now we will, as some tourists seem to be abusing the rules.” The changes have caused widespread confusion among foreigners in Thailand with specialist websites such as Thai Visa running lengthy updates on them. Some posters on the site's forum claim they are already being denied visas at some northern checkpoints, despite Pol Lt Gen Pharnu saying the crackdown will not come into effect until Aug 12.

[MrWorldwide]

And Ubon Joe is right. This is not about people on Non-O or extension of stay. It does not concern those people (myself included) whatsoever.

It is about people entering on TOURIST VISAS who also have a history of border runs.

Genuine tourists have no need to worry either.

Or am I mistaken?

Non-O and an extension of stay are not the same thing. If terryp's post earlier is any indication (and others entering Thailand with the Non-O visa have reportedly been interviewed), there are no guarantees with any visa issued by a Consulate. My extension of stay was issued by Thai Immigration at Jomtien - the visa I entered Thailand on was a tourist visa and I'd used up the 30-day extension on that.

It's clear - to me anyway - that Thai Immigration is aware that some Consulates are basically visa factories (sadly Penang must be near the top of that list) - in any case, the Immigration Officer has the power to admit or deny people as they see fit, This from terryp:

i went thro Padang Besar last week and the imm guy was the worst i have ever had there ..i have a non o ret visa (hull) he looked at every visa stamp page at least 3 times and refused to give me the immigration card to enter thailand until he finnished this inspection ...i.ve been on Non O for over 10 years so you can tell it took time for this guy to do his intimidation....sadly it failed

To be clear, this is what the Non-O visa issued by a Consulate looks like - my extension of stay is just a stamp:

[96tehtarp]

It is about people entering on TOURIST VISAS who also have a history of border runs.

Genuine tourists have no need to worry either.

Or am I mistaken?

I don't think you are mistaken. The OP was about foreigners with Tourist Visas recently being tuned away because the immigration officer did not believe they were entering Thailand for tourism.

I do think that "Serial Tourists", need to be prepared to prove to the immigration officer that they are indeed a tourist.

My worry is that bona fide tourists (Serial Tourists) will be unnecessarily turned away because they are not prepared to provide the slightest bit of evidence that they are tourists. That is my take on the OP.

edit: There are many tourists who can afford to remain in Thailand for more than a year at a time with funds sourced from overseas. I was one of them and used back to back tourist visas and multiple 30 day exemptions to do it because it was legal and accepted practice at the time.

Edited July 10, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[Cam Khao]

The more I think about the emerging situation, the more I come to believe that Thailand is having a clear out of the long stayers, and hoping to focus more on high quality tourists.

People who were doing 30 day visa runs got hit hard first, and in many ways this was inevitable at some stage. So what did these people do? They went and got themselves a valid tourist visa. Immigration is not stupid though, these are still the same people they didn't want here in the first place. So now they are being bounced as well. They are still not tourists in the eyes of immigration.

And now the real kicker. People who have gone and gotten a non-immigrant visa of some type, which says sure, you are right, I am not a tourist, and now I have a visa that reflects that, are also being bounced. Once again, immigration is not stupid, they are the same people that were originally doing the whole 30 day exemption thing.

So what's the option? Well, one used to be that you got in, and then never left, but kept that 20k Baht handy to clear up your overstay if you did need to leave. But we all know that's not possible anymore (rightly so).

The writing is on the wall. Pretty soon, unless you are on an extension of stay for retirement or family reasons, or a short-term tourist visiting the country for a few weeks a year, then don't expect to be staying too long.

Who knows how far this will go. Many of us were sitting in what we thought was a safe place, with a valid visa. Now it's not looking so safe.

[apetley]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

[primapagina]

I wonder if they just check the passport for the stamps, or they also look at their computers. Actually we are all registered in a database, but it seems they don't use that to check. What if you renew your passport, and have a brand, clean ones? I have never seen this mentioned, but actually this makes quite a big difference, right?

[Cam Khao]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

From ubonjoe, "I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non-o visas were turned away there along with tourist visas."

[smedly]

First of all - a None Imm Type O is not a retirement Visa an OA could be classed as for retirement issued in your home country

None Imm O is issued to people who have family here and as a convenience as they may be required to have frequent exits and returns while they work in their home countries - they are not tourists

A type O is also used as the first step in getting an extension based on Marriage - Children - Retirement etc - these again are not tourists but are wanting to stay in Thailand for longer periods and meet the requirements

Tourist Visa is exactly that and from what we are seeing you will not be allowed to stay here long term using that type of visa - possibly a maximum of 6 continuous months in any 12 - and of course the VOA fits in here also for short tourist visits

There are also other visa's that I won't mention

It would seem to me that if your profile does not meet the expectations of the visa you have then you are going to be scrutinised and either refused entry or encouraged to get the correct visa or extension

I think most people will have a good idea if they fit the profile or not

[Pralaad]

It would appear current reality is that only those with non immigrant visa's and first timers are safe, all the rest are 50/50 chance.

That's going little over the top in my opinion, especially when there are no clear guidelines

[impulse]

I'm still waiting for reports of people being turned away from the airports - the land borders are an obvious target if you are looking to catch visa runners. I also wonder if the Immi officer who gave terryp a hard time would be prepared to do so if he had a line of a hundred or so tourists fresh off a flight behind him. When this hits the airports - even in the current lowest of low seasons - it wont just be TVers complaining.

Slightly off topic, but bear with me, please.

Good point. The implications of turning someone away from an airport are much more onerous than turning someone away at a ground crossing. The airport "arriver" has to be flown out (and at whose expense if there is a visa?)

It would also be good to know if the airlines start tightening up on who they let on the plane, because they're required to pay for repatriation (plus a hefty fine) if the "arriver" gets turned away at immigration because of dodgy paperwork.

I suspect airline entries may be a better choice than ground entries- until we start to hear otherwise.

[Cam Khao]

First of all - a None Imm Type O is not a retirement Visa an OA could be classed as for retirement issued in your home country

None Imm O is issued to people who have family here and as a convenience as they may be required to have frequent exits and returns while they work in their home countries - they are not tourists

A type O is also used as the first step in getting an extension based on Marriage - Children - Retirement etc - these again are not tourists but are wanting to stay in Thailand for longer periods and meet the requirements

Tourist Visa is exactly that and from what we are seeing you will not be allowed to stay here long term using that type of visa - possibly a maximum of 6 continuous months in any 12 - and of course the VOA fits in here also for short tourist visits

There are also other visa's that I won't mention

It would seem to me that if your profile does not meet the expectations of the visa you have then you are going to be scrutinised and either refused entry or encouraged to get the correct visa or extension

I think most people will have a good idea if they fit the profile or not

I think you are exactly right smedly. A line is being drawn between legitimate long stay and unwanted long-term low spending tourists, and we are all going to have to make sure we end up on the right side of it.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Cam Khao

[MrWorldwide]

And now the real kicker. People who have gone and gotten a non-immigrant visa of some type, which says sure, you are right, I am not a tourist, and now I have a visa that reflects that, are also being bounced. Once again, immigration is not stupid, they are the same people that were originally doing the whole 30 day exemption thing.

Please provide a link to a report of someone with a valid Non-O visa actually being bounced - terryp was interviewed and had his passport closely scrutinised but that was as far as it went. Doesnt mean it hasnt happened - I'm just not aware of it happening.