UN expert rebuffs death penalty calls: Train murder

[kimamey]

Rubbish...

A well thought out and reasoned reply there.

I don't agree with capital punishment but not for all the same reasons as Mr Peek. That's just my opinion.

This terrible rape and murder has happened and nothing can take that back. It's for the courts to decide on the sentence although it should be borne in mind that this is a Buddhist country.

The other part of this is the ongoing problem of murder, rape and other crimes here and around the world. I do agree with the idea that capital punishment doesn't deter particularly in cases of a sexual nature. We've all been young and for men in particular we will remember how that can cloud our judgement. Fortunately most of us don't go that far. For some though that urge is much greater and the affect of drink and drugs in this case adds to the problem. I'm sure many of us have been drunk before but we never get this far out of hand but for some that happens. I very much doubt this man thought through the consequences of what he was doing. He's probably wishing he hadn't done it, now that it's too late. If capital punishment worked it would probably show in crime rates which as far as I know it doesn't.

We can't help this poor girl now but we can help her parents and we can try to make it less likely to happen again. Stricter rules on drinking and employment checks on the railway and other places will help but there is a need t educate people from an early age right from wrong.

His reply was direct and accurate, and Maybe more people will agree with him than you

It looks as though many do agree with him. The difference is I have the ability to string a few sentences together regarding a very serious subject. I can explain possible reasons against the death penalty other than the rights of the accused or the possibility of a wrongful execution. He either doesn't have the ability or can't be bothered.

Unfortunately unless you post supporting execution then you're accused of defending him. I have been accused already of defending this man even though I haven't done so. I also haven't agreed with the completely with the comments by Caspar Peek.

[kimamey]

My suggestion to the problem of rape and for those that are against capital punishment is:

Cut it off!

This will save on prison costs, please those against capital punishment, and the guy will never be able to do it again. Society will be protected. Problem solved.

Not quite. The guy would become even more crude, and use tools and god knows what to get his own back... he would revert to more sickening events.

I don't often agree with you as you can probably see from my posts above but I believe you're right on this one.

It's often seen as a solution on threads regarding paedophiles. 'Castrate them. Problem solved' We aren't dogs, we're higher primates like monkeys and apes. Sexual drive may or may not be affected and even then may only be decreased not eliminated. Not all sexual crimes are based solely on physical intercourse and often it's the feeling of power over another person that is the main driver. Chemical castration is sometimes offered to those who volunteer for it as not all sex offenders are happy with their actions. Sometimes it works but often it doesn't. I believe this is often the case if the previously mentioned dominance is the key factor.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make comments based on one crime and their view of how bad it is without taking into account the affect it has on victims and families in that case or the wider consequences for other potential victims.

I don't infer you agree or disagree; I believe we are both able to take retrospective thinking and sit quietly, and consider opinion.

As you rightly identified, just, it is not all based upon the physical act, and is quite often based upon the 'power' feeling, which was taken away in childhood, likely by a dominant bastardiser themself. Thailand has such an ill-mannered 'learned behaviour' problem, going back more than eons.

Example here, if it is not removed: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=294879034020895&set=vb.100004964015487&type=2&theater

Purely an example of learned behaviour, don't you agree? Sickening, yes.... from our Western point of view.

Is she committing a crime? Not in Thai eyes... it is 'normal' behaviour, as every Thai I have asked has said so.

The child a victim? Not in Thai society. Where could we take it from here?

Definitely not an easy video to watch.

[kimamey]

My suggestion to the problem of rape and for those that are against capital punishment is:

Cut it off!

This will save on prison costs, please those against capital punishment, and the guy will never be able to do it again. Society will be protected. Problem solved.

Not quite. The guy would become even more crude, and use tools and god knows what to get his own back... he would revert to more sickening events.

I don't often agree with you as you can probably see from my posts above but I believe you're right on this one.

It's often seen as a solution on threads regarding paedophiles. 'Castrate them. Problem solved' We aren't dogs, we're higher primates like monkeys and apes. Sexual drive may or may not be affected and even then may only be decreased not eliminated. Not all sexual crimes are based solely on physical intercourse and often it's the feeling of power over another person that is the main driver. Chemical castration is sometimes offered to those who volunteer for it as not all sex offenders are happy with their actions. Sometimes it works but often it doesn't. I believe this is often the case if the previously mentioned dominance is the key factor.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make comments based on one crime and their view of how bad it is without taking into account the affect it has on victims and families in that case or the wider consequences for other potential victims.

I would like to mention here one point that every one seems to not be considering.

what if it is the actual killing that real turns him on.

Studies show that the death penalty does not stop people from committing crimes. They also show that life in prison is a bigger preventative against murder when it is a planed murder not the normal spur of the moment or accident ones that make up most of the murders.

Yes there are many reasons for these crimes and one penalty for them all misses the bigger picture.

There's been a suggestion of a mandatory death sentence for murders and rape and it's also been said that a confession should trigger the death penalty. There are negative repercussions in taking these actions.

Firstly you have to bare in mind the victim and / or their family. I'm not in favour of them having a say in the sentencing although many seem to, based I think on the assumption that they would support the death penalty. That may not be the case. I know most Thais don't seem to follow their religion too well but it may be that they would in respect of human life. They might even say 'let him go as he will be judged after death'. Then you would have someone who is most likely a danger walking the streets. Whilst there are some on here who are getting very excited about the possibility of an execution, which even if agreed with capital punishment I would find a bit unhealthy, the thought of someone's life being ended due to something that has happened you are closely involved in may not be easy to cope with for the victim's family even if he does deserve it.

The idea of execution for rape is very worrying as unlike murder it involves sex which can be consensual although obviously not in this current case. Deciding on consent is very difficult so the chances of making a mistake is high. Who would want to rely on these people when it comes to receiving justice.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/573993-condemned-police-officers-two-others-freed-on-bail-thailand/

A confession usually gives a defendant a lower sentence and this is used a lot in sexual cases as a guilty plea means there isn't a need for a trial and so the victim isn't subjected to necessarily hostile questioning and reliving the crime in great detail. Offering certain death as a reward for a confession will I'm guessing result in very few of them meaning more horror for victims.

Again the idea of taking someone's life may stop many victims coming forward.

Imagine a woman living with or married to a man, possibly with children. One night she's not feeling like sex but her partner, who's had a bit to drink insists and forces her. That's rape and needs to be dealt with sensibly based on the circumstances. Is she likely to report the incident to the police if a mandatory death sentence is going to be the outcome?

[northernjohn]

Not quite. The guy would become even more crude, and use tools and god knows what to get his own back... he would revert to more sickening events.

I don't often agree with you as you can probably see from my posts above but I believe you're right on this one.

It's often seen as a solution on threads regarding paedophiles. 'Castrate them. Problem solved' We aren't dogs, we're higher primates like monkeys and apes. Sexual drive may or may not be affected and even then may only be decreased not eliminated. Not all sexual crimes are based solely on physical intercourse and often it's the feeling of power over another person that is the main driver. Chemical castration is sometimes offered to those who volunteer for it as not all sex offenders are happy with their actions. Sometimes it works but often it doesn't. I believe this is often the case if the previously mentioned dominance is the key factor.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make comments based on one crime and their view of how bad it is without taking into account the affect it has on victims and families in that case or the wider consequences for other potential victims.

I would like to mention here one point that every one seems to not be considering.

what if it is the actual killing that real turns him on.

Studies show that the death penalty does not stop people from committing crimes. They also show that life in prison is a bigger preventative against murder when it is a planed murder not the normal spur of the moment or accident ones that make up most of the murders.

If it is the killing itself that 'turns' the killler on, then that is where I believe we enter the world of the 'serial' killer. The likes of Lopez, Bundy and West etc. (and possibly the likes of Pol Pot and even Hitler, although the latter didn't commit the crimes on a personal level).

I believe this train incident was a drug crazed lead to a killing, as if the perpretrator/s enjoyed the 'kill' itself then the 2 previous victims woulld not be here to come forward. Despite that, it is a despicable occurrance, and should be dealt with in the most serious way possible. Take him down.

You have a good point there. But most serial killers start with less than a murder and work there way up to it. The very nature of the crime says he has no regard for human life. I just point out that it is a possibility. Even if it was to not happen again with him I believe the nature of the crime warrants the death penalty. I kind of like the one in North Korea using dogs for people like him.

I am not to concerned about his human rites. He gave them up when he started acting like an animal.

[northernjohn]

Not quite. The guy would become even more crude, and use tools and god knows what to get his own back... he would revert to more sickening events.

I don't often agree with you as you can probably see from my posts above but I believe you're right on this one.

It's often seen as a solution on threads regarding paedophiles. 'Castrate them. Problem solved' We aren't dogs, we're higher primates like monkeys and apes. Sexual drive may or may not be affected and even then may only be decreased not eliminated. Not all sexual crimes are based solely on physical intercourse and often it's the feeling of power over another person that is the main driver. Chemical castration is sometimes offered to those who volunteer for it as not all sex offenders are happy with their actions. Sometimes it works but often it doesn't. I believe this is often the case if the previously mentioned dominance is the key factor.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make comments based on one crime and their view of how bad it is without taking into account the affect it has on victims and families in that case or the wider consequences for other potential victims.

I would like to mention here one point that every one seems to not be considering.

what if it is the actual killing that real turns him on.

Studies show that the death penalty does not stop people from committing crimes. They also show that life in prison is a bigger preventative against murder when it is a planed murder not the normal spur of the moment or accident ones that make up most of the murders.

Yes there are many reasons for these crimes and one penalty for them all misses the bigger picture.

There's been a suggestion of a mandatory death sentence for murders and rape and it's also been said that a confession should trigger the death penalty. There are negative repercussions in taking these actions.

Firstly you have to bare in mind the victim and / or their family. I'm not in favour of them having a say in the sentencing although many seem to, based I think on the assumption that they would support the death penalty. That may not be the case. I know most Thais don't seem to follow their religion too well but it may be that they would in respect of human life. They might even say 'let him go as he will be judged after death'. Then you would have someone who is most likely a danger walking the streets. Whilst there are some on here who are getting very excited about the possibility of an execution, which even if agreed with capital punishment I would find a bit unhealthy, the thought of someone's life being ended due to something that has happened you are closely involved in may not be easy to cope with for the victim's family even if he does deserve it.

The idea of execution for rape is very worrying as unlike murder it involves sex which can be consensual although obviously not in this current case. Deciding on consent is very difficult so the chances of making a mistake is high. Who would want to rely on these people when it comes to receiving justice.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/573993-condemned-police-officers-two-others-freed-on-bail-thailand/

A confession usually gives a defendant a lower sentence and this is used a lot in sexual cases as a guilty plea means there isn't a need for a trial and so the victim isn't subjected to necessarily hostile questioning and reliving the crime in great detail. Offering certain death as a reward for a confession will I'm guessing result in very few of them meaning more horror for victims.

Again the idea of taking someone's life may stop many victims coming forward.

Imagine a woman living with or married to a man, possibly with children. One night she's not feeling like sex but her partner, who's had a bit to drink insists and forces her. That's rape and needs to be dealt with sensibly based on the circumstances. Is she likely to report the incident to the police if a mandatory death sentence is going to be the outcome?

I am not a big fan of the death penalty but this is not the middle ages so those things are no longer here. separately they are a different colored horse. How ever when you put both those two crimes together I have no problem with the death penalty.

1 It is probably not the first women he has raped

2 He has now added death to his crimes and may just discover that the two together are even more enjoyable.

Also I have noticed no one in favor of life imprisonment over the death penalty in this case has said they do not mind supporting the person for the rest of his life.

I do not have the figures but it would not surprise me if the same amount of money it cost to keep him in jail would feed 5 people. That is just my opinion. Prisons and guards don't come cheap. Plus the food which is a questionable commodity and clothing medical and other incidentals.

[JetsetBkk]

When the victim is under age, the suggested punishment is absolutely just - but only when there is 100% certainty that they committed the crime. Rape of an "adult"...I'm not so sure. Probably.

Problem is even when a conviction is "100% certain" is can still be a mistake. Unfortunate that a miscarriage of justice can't be put right if the person convicted of it has been executed.

History is littered with wrongful convictions which have been overturned years later.

Please give an example of someone wrongly convicted and executed when the evidence was "100% certain".

[sirineou]

You all seem to miss the Point

Look at it from an other angle, when you make the death penalty legal, you give the authorities the right to legally take your life.

Do you trust the authorities so much , especially in Thailand, that you would wish them such right?

If it had been my child I would have demanded it.

I have lost a boy through an accident. Not a heinous crime such as this and it is not an easy burden to carry with you. Every day knowing you will never see your child again.

Then to have people tell you that you should help pay his room and board for a period of time is an insult.

I sincerely hope you never experience the reality of losing a child. To do so in such a manor would double the pain.

I can only imagine your pain, it is any parents greatest nightmare, as a parent of a wonderful 18 year old daughter. I am not sure I could survive it.

Non the less that is not the point, the point is , do you trust the authorities enough to give them the legal right over death or life?

I Don't, perhaps others know better than me and do, that's debatable.

Personally if something like this happen to me I think , I would want to keep them in this life and make them suffer as much as possible, death would be way to easy for them,

But notice I said , I would think, I would only know when it happens to me, until then I can only have an opinion.

[GeckosDiving]

I've always said god forbid if that ever happened to my daughter the day he got out of jail it would be the last day of his life !!! And while I'm in jail or waiting for the death penalty and you ask me was it worth it I would look you straight in the eyes and say YOU F*$KIN BET IT WAS !!!! Scum like that don't have a right for forgiveness !!! Just my opinion

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kimamey]

I don't often agree with you as you can probably see from my posts above but I believe you're right on this one.

It's often seen as a solution on threads regarding paedophiles. 'Castrate them. Problem solved' We aren't dogs, we're higher primates like monkeys and apes. Sexual drive may or may not be affected and even then may only be decreased not eliminated. Not all sexual crimes are based solely on physical intercourse and often it's the feeling of power over another person that is the main driver. Chemical castration is sometimes offered to those who volunteer for it as not all sex offenders are happy with their actions. Sometimes it works but often it doesn't. I believe this is often the case if the previously mentioned dominance is the key factor.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make comments based on one crime and their view of how bad it is without taking into account the affect it has on victims and families in that case or the wider consequences for other potential victims.

I would like to mention here one point that every one seems to not be considering.

what if it is the actual killing that real turns him on.

Studies show that the death penalty does not stop people from committing crimes. They also show that life in prison is a bigger preventative against murder when it is a planed murder not the normal spur of the moment or accident ones that make up most of the murders.

Yes there are many reasons for these crimes and one penalty for them all misses the bigger picture.

There's been a suggestion of a mandatory death sentence for murders and rape and it's also been said that a confession should trigger the death penalty. There are negative repercussions in taking these actions.

Firstly you have to bare in mind the victim and / or their family. I'm not in favour of them having a say in the sentencing although many seem to, based I think on the assumption that they would support the death penalty. That may not be the case. I know most Thais don't seem to follow their religion too well but it may be that they would in respect of human life. They might even say 'let him go as he will be judged after death'. Then you would have someone who is most likely a danger walking the streets. Whilst there are some on here who are getting very excited about the possibility of an execution, which even if agreed with capital punishment I would find a bit unhealthy, the thought of someone's life being ended due to something that has happened you are closely involved in may not be easy to cope with for the victim's family even if he does deserve it.

The idea of execution for rape is very worrying as unlike murder it involves sex which can be consensual although obviously not in this current case. Deciding on consent is very difficult so the chances of making a mistake is high. Who would want to rely on these people when it comes to receiving justice.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/573993-condemned-police-officers-two-others-freed-on-bail-thailand/

A confession usually gives a defendant a lower sentence and this is used a lot in sexual cases as a guilty plea means there isn't a need for a trial and so the victim isn't subjected to necessarily hostile questioning and reliving the crime in great detail. Offering certain death as a reward for a confession will I'm guessing result in very few of them meaning more horror for victims.

Again the idea of taking someone's life may stop many victims coming forward.

Imagine a woman living with or married to a man, possibly with children. One night she's not feeling like sex but her partner, who's had a bit to drink insists and forces her. That's rape and needs to be dealt with sensibly based on the circumstances. Is she likely to report the incident to the police if a mandatory death sentence is going to be the outcome?

I am not a big fan of the death penalty but this is not the middle ages so those things are no longer here. separately they are a different colored horse. How ever when you put both those two crimes together I have no problem with the death penalty.

1 It is probably not the first women he has raped

2 He has now added death to his crimes and may just discover that the two together are even more enjoyable.

Also I have noticed no one in favor of life imprisonment over the death penalty in this case has said they do not mind supporting the person for the rest of his life.

I do not have the figures but it would not surprise me if the same amount of money it cost to keep him in jail would feed 5 people. That is just my opinion. Prisons and guards don't come cheap. Plus the food which is a questionable commodity and clothing medical and other incidentals.

I was talking more in general terms and the possible affects of the various ideas put forward on the family, no only in this case but others as well and the repercussions in future cases of rape and murder of varying degrees. He has admitted to 2 other rapes, although one of the victims denies it was rape. I don't know but I would think shame might be the reason for that.

Caspar Peek mentioned a person's right to life, which is true as is a right to freedom. However the right to freedom is taken away by prison terms and there are good reasons for it. In this case there's the obvious risk of re offending. It looks like the death might have been a mistake as it's not something he's done before apparently and it may well have given him enough of a shock to stop him but it would be irresponsible to rely on that so a long, or maybe permanent jail sentence would be justifiable. It's less obvious to me how the death sentence would be justified in the same way and I don't feel something this serious should be decided based on how much money can be saved.

Whatever the outcome it can't stop what has happened which will always be a very sad story. We can hope that measures will be put in place to stop the inappropriate employment of someone with the sort of drink and drug problems this man had. It would be interesting to know if the person who got him the job also knew anything about his sexual offending as well.