Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[tzthib]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

How about in your country? do you think a Thai can get back to back visas and stay as long as they like. They probably cant" even get a visa in the first place.

Comparing Thailand to developed countries like the US and those in the EU is idiotic. Developed countries have difficult visa requirements because 1) many people wish to enter primarily to work and 2) these people could be a drain on government coffers if they ever needed assistance (welfare and the like). Thailand has immigrant labor problems, but in reality these immigrants are much more likely to be found on a construction site than on Thaivisa. There is a crackdown on immigrant labor, and people may or may not be getting shot at on the way out. Most of us on Thaivisa are bringing money in from abroad, or are working in a capacity that is not threatening native Thai employment (English teaching). We are not costing Thailand or its people anything at all by being here, and in many cases are greatly contributing to the local economy.

Furthermore, just because something is "the law of the land" does not make it automatically just and worthy of respect. Jim Crow was legal in the US, and slavery was once the law of the land in many places. does that mean those laws are worthy of respect? And, why should anyone in Thailand be faulted for having a cynical view of the law when Thai citizens and even the police, military, and government officials have such little respect for it? Rule of law does not really exist here, and to pretend otherwise is foolish. In this country, enforcement of laws and regulations has ALWAYS been lax, so why now? Why are tourist visas being issued but those that hold them are being refused entry?

[larsjohnsson]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Why having a child if you can't even afford a visa to stay with your GF and child?

With so little money you obviously have to start working so you get some money. That's what all other people have to do

[ColdSingha]

You can get the O visa just by having the kid. Married also, even better. For either, you just need 400K or 40K per month. I believe you need your embassy to give you a letter if you go for the 40K route.

can you get an 'O' visa for having a kid? i though had to have custody as well? possible to extend based on this as well?

[jpinx]

I believe the authorities are cleaning up the abuse of the visa system on two fronts here.

I reckon the immigration staff are under strict orders to not let people with loads of previous tourist visa and entry stamps into Thailand.

AND

They are also getting tough with the foreigners trying to enter by denying them entry into the country.

This will be a good thing in the long run.

However, it seems from reading the comments here that the people who will be unfairly victimised by this are the offshore workers.

These guys probably have more than enough money to support themselves during their stay in Thailand, they don't work in Thailand, may not be married to a Thai and are probably under 50, they get tourist visas because there is no other visa class for them!!

an offshore worker will have longer breaks between the tourist visas - -so should be ok. If he has a thai family he can get a non-O visa with multiple entries.

[ironbark]

If things are confusing now, what will happen when they are supposed to harmonise visa conditions across all ASEAN countries originally slated for 2015.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[HappyinNE]

It looks to me that someone in immigration needs to look at the problems they are creating for actual tourists.

Several years ago as a tourist I was going to India to look for tigers. Came via Bangkok and spent one night in Bangkok before continuing on to India for three weeks. Then I returned to Bangkok but proceeded to fly to Chang Rei and then into Lao for a trip down the Mekong. Ended up in Vientiane and crossed over the Thai border into Nong Khai. Three entries to Thailand, an actual tourist and it sounds like i would have not been able to do this.

Also many tourists will come and tour Bangkok then proceed on to Angkor Wat and back into Thailand.

Thais want to encourage tourism and also Bangkok being a hub for Southeast Asia traffic. From what I read here could be a problem.

Looks like a lot of random shooting but soon will shoot themselves in the foot.

[expat888]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

I don't think so. People visiting here as "real" tourists are unlikely to be affected, particularly as they invariably arrive by air. As clearly stated in the OP, the eight people who were refused entry all had a history of border crossings and numerous Tourist Visas, so the official was clearly following orders not to allow bogus "tourists" into Thailand.

There are numerous ways that a person can arrange legal status in Thailand, and I certainly have no sympathy for anyone who uses tourist visas to carry out unlawful work in Thailand. I am of the opinion that once Thailand has rid itself of such bogus tourists, they may start to make things slightly easier for those of us who stay here legally - such as disposing of the pointless 90 day reporting ...!!

Not according to what is being said at the border. You are a tourist for only 30 days. It would appear 60 day visas are meaningless.

[Tomtomtom69]

I hope Laos doesn't catch the Thai anti corruption disease. Unlimited back to back thirty day tourist visas. At $30 a pop.

On further thought, nah!!! No chance of them stopping that nice little earner.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree. Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar and Indonesia are amongst the countries in the region where either back-to-back visa runs or unlimited visa extensions (especially in Cambodia) are acceptable and even encouraged (I entered Myanmar on 5 tourist visas last year and was always told at the border that I'm always welcome back). No chance of them giving up on that one, not for many years at least. Anyway, given how poor those countries are (although Vietnam is catching up fast) there is no incentive for change either.

[expat888]

I think I may just skip Thailand all together this time. I have been watching airfares and now it is just as cheap to fly into Cambodia. It use to be significantly more. Is Cambodia the next Thailand?

I hope so. I like visiting there.

[jpinx]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Why having a child if you can't even afford a visa to stay with your GF and child?

With so little money you obviously have to start working so you get some money. That's what all other people have to do

One moment she is the girlfriend, next she is the wife ???? If married - get a non-O based on marriage - simple.

if not - marry her

Edited July 14, 2014 by jpinx

[Tomtomtom69]

It looks to me that someone in immigration needs to look at the problems they are creating for actual tourists.

Several years ago as a tourist I was going to India to look for tigers. Came via Bangkok and spent one night in Bangkok before continuing on to India for three weeks. Then I returned to Bangkok but proceeded to fly to Chang Rei and then into Lao for a trip down the Mekong. Ended up in Vientiane and crossed over the Thai border into Nong Khai. Three entries to Thailand, an actual tourist and it sounds like i would have not been able to do this.

Also many tourists will come and tour Bangkok then proceed on to Angkor Wat and back into Thailand.

Thais want to encourage tourism and also Bangkok being a hub for Southeast Asia traffic. From what I read here could be a problem.

Looks like a lot of random shooting but soon will shoot themselves in the foot.

That is pure speculation on your part. Whoever said that won't be allowed anymore, particularly if you have itineraries, sufficient funds, maybe even hotel/apartment bookings, car rental bookings etc. to back it up?

[Jip66]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

yeah, i agree with this. i had a nightmare trying to get my wife back into the UK after we went to Paris for a weekend last year. she had valid UK and Schengen visas too. took 15 minutes of talking before they would let us enter

15 minutes of talking? WOW, you must of been falling asleep on your foot, did you ask for a chair & glass of water because of this looong wait....?

[Pattaya46]

maybe much more of this, i've heard many reports of these from expats in my area too.

under the counter visas (from immigration) are the new backhanders

Yes, we all heard about that, and even saw agencies advertising "your 1-year visa for ... baht" !

The question though is:

Does anyone know about someone "buying his visa" during last month ? (since NCPO menaced all officers about corruption)

[sanuk711]

"I say we all move out of Thailand for Myanmar.... That'll screw em up" ---- lostsoul49

We're all right behind you lostsoul49 ........we're show them..........just leave us your forwarding address when you get there..................

[Traveling Sailor]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

A cold fact that apparently needs to be repeated ad infinitum since some people seem incapable of understanding it.

Yes, Asdecas, I totally agree with you. Statements like, "I've been here for ten years and never had this problem", or "I hope it doesn't happen at other check points", are proof that some people are not too bright. Customs/Immigration has been saying for MONTHS that changes are coming. The new reality is, IF YOU HAVE BEEN HERE MORE THAN 90 DAYS, EVEN THOUGH THE DAYS ARE NOT CONSECUTIVE, YOU ARE NOT A TOURIST. What is it about this fact that is so difficult to understand?? Good grief! Quit the moaning, groaning, whining, etc. and get a proper "long stay" visa.

[expat888]

To be fair, those denied were serial abusers of tourist visas. The guy quoted is probably not strong enough in English to be implicitly correct. Some initial zealous application will disappoint some. I feel sorry for those who come for the first time on a 60 day tourist and then decide to go to Angkor/Siem Reap halfway through, they are likely to get caught out.

Apparently, if you want to come back to Thailand more than once every 6 months, i.e. on business, you're going to get caught out.

Actually, "to be fair", they should have been notified at time visa issuance.

It doesn't matter if they are abusers or not. Maybe some of these people don't have enough money to take a bus to the airport and buy a plane fare. You have to plan for these things.

[John1thru10]

It looks to me that someone in immigration needs to look at the problems they are creating for actual tourists.

Several years ago as a tourist I was going to India to look for tigers. Came via Bangkok and spent one night in Bangkok before continuing on to India for three weeks. Then I returned to Bangkok but proceeded to fly to Chang Rei and then into Lao for a trip down the Mekong. Ended up in Vientiane and crossed over the Thai border into Nong Khai. Three entries to Thailand, an actual tourist and it sounds like i would have not been able to do this.

Also many tourists will come and tour Bangkok then proceed on to Angkor Wat and back into Thailand.

Thais want to encourage tourism and also Bangkok being a hub for Southeast Asia traffic. From what I read here could be a problem.

Looks like a lot of random shooting but soon will shoot themselves in the foot.

That is pure speculation on your part. Whoever said that won't be allowed anymore, particularly if you have itineraries, sufficient funds, maybe even hotel/apartment bookings, car rental bookings etc. to back it up?

Uh...no, it's based on a report just above, which states clearly that people who were just issued tourist visas are not being allowed into Thailand, and left at a border in a state of panic. If this happened to you, I suspect you'd be weeping and wailing.

Edited July 14, 2014 by John1thru10

[brewsterbudgen]

The "Maï pen raï" attitude does not prevail anymore. A "by the book" Thailand could be less funny due the very strict laws ruling this country. The real test will be about prostitution which is illegal here => if the junta eradicates prostitution, it will mean a perfectly clean Thailand. Then, the final decision to stay or not will be in your hands.

Prostitution is regulated in Thailand, not illegal. Also the current changes in visa policy pre-date the junta.

[expat888]

I understand there's a new sheriff in town, and "rules is rules" and whatnot, but what is the actual motivation for the crackdown?

It certainly doesn't help the country financially. Was there a growing disdain for a certain type of farang that boiled over?, farangs in general?, is it just chest-thumping and trying to look productive?

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

It seems the Russians working here illegally is a major target. They are taking jobs from the locals. It seems they have looked the other way for years if you are an English teacher.

Are English teachers taking jobs away from the locals?

[Tomtomtom69]

If things are confusing now, what will happen when they are supposed to harmonise visa conditions across all ASEAN countries originally slated for 2015.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I haven't heard that one and that's probably because that won't happen. Each country will keep it's own visa systems in place, which it should. Although ASEAN citizens, all 10 member states, should be able to freely stay for 30 days (as part of the ASEAN charter) I think it should be made 90 days along with cars registered in any ASEAN country should be allowed to drive to any other ASEAN country for up to 90 days with longer extensions possible with none of the current nonsense (no cars on finance allowed to leave Thailand, Thai cars can't enter Vietnam and can only enter Myanmar on a tour etc.) After all, there are Thai road construction workers in Myanmar working on upgrading the roads from two borders to the interior (Myawady to Kawkareik and Htee Khee to Dawei) and also in Laos that use their own vehicles (well actually company vehicles but still, they are Thai registered) in the country - it seems ridiculous that they have to drive them back to Thailand every 30 days because of some stupid customs rule that doesn't allow Thai vehicles to leave the country for more than 30 days at a time or remain in a neighboring country for more than 30 days at a time. I think they should really look at how Europe does it - Dutch vehicles driving around Switzerland, Italy, Greece wherever without problems and insurance is valid throughout the continent.

The only changes slated are for easier access to work permits for about 8 different professionals from ASEAN member states and that's it.

[F K Thornbury]

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

Are you staying on back to back 90 day entries from a Multi visa? In this case it is clearly an abuse of the rules and not how this visa is intended to be used. If the crackdown continues, these visas may well become the next target after NON-EDs

I'm married to a Thai, have been for 14 years. If they start hassling spouses who want to live with their loved ones and their families in their home country....well that's an entirely different ball of wax. And would be ridiculous.

[hawker9000]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

yeah, i agree with this. i had a nightmare trying to get my wife back into the UK after we went to Paris for a weekend last year. she had valid UK and Schengen visas too. took 15 minutes of talking before they would let us enter

15 minutes of talking? WOW, you must of been falling asleep on your foot, did you ask for a chair & glass of water because of this looong wait....?

You're talking old-school, dude. 15 minutes 'used' to be a short conversation; nowadays, especially in the context of a law enforcement exchange (and 140-character tweets; quick emails, facebook, etc.), it sounds like a LOT of Q&A. 'Seems like that sort of interview should take place with the visa authority, not the IO. I understand it's just the "way things are" and so just something we all have to live with, but it doesn't make sense to me that the IO should be second-guessing the visa authority unless he spots or truly has reason to suspect something the visa authority couldn't have been aware of. It's the idea that both see the same information, and arrive at different decisions, at the expense of the traveler. That seems very wrong, not a little bit absurd, and oh so typically bureaucratic, not to mention orwellian. <sigh> I guess everyone in the conga line must justify their own existence...

Edited July 14, 2014 by hawker9000

[Pattaya46]

It doesn't matter if they are abusers or not.

Maybe some of these people don't have enough money to take a bus to the airport and buy a plane fare.

You have to plan for these things.

Are you not suppose to have (or have access to) something like 20'000 baht each time you enter in Thailand?

Far enough for this bus + plane trip.

[oldsailor35]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

You must have read a different article to me . . . they are not refusing entry to "tourists", they are refusing entry to people who consistently abuse the Tourist Visa, i.e. "visa runners", and with all the recent reporting on this subject, why are you surprised or shocked about this?

As per the article:

"All of the foreigners who were denied entry had a previous history of multiple visa exempt entries or back to back tourist visas."

Thailand is currently undergoing some fairly major changes, reducing corruption and following the law a lot more closely. I have no idea how long this will last for, but the message is clear . . . we're trying to do things better, and you (foreigners) need to follow the law as it is written now.

Although the visa situation here isn't easy, simple or convenient, most of us manage to stay here for years at a time by doing things "properly" . . . I suggest some of these others start to do the same, and perhaps, just perhaps, when they see that we can do things correctly, they might just make it easier for us doing it properly to stay here even longer/easier at some future point in time.

They were NOT abusing the system.

That is the system that has always been in place in Thailand for years, signed, sealed and delivered by none other than the immigration Bureau of Thailand.

You went to an embassy, they gave you a visa, sometimes they deny you a double entry and stick you with a single entry, but THEY issued the visas.

You wanted an extension, you went to immigration and THEY extended it for you... simple as that.

As a matter of fact, up until these new xenophobic changes, this is the very website where people came for advice on how to stay in Thailand long term on tourist visas and were helped by scores of members of all the tricks of the trade. Nobody used to chime in saying 'shame on you' or 'you are not a tourist, stop abusing the system'...

Yet most of you lot probably found your way onto this website in the first instance by looking for the very same info for your own needs.

I reckon there is a lot of hypocrisy in this thread coming from people who themselves have done their own fair share of visa runs, as a matter of fact I don't think I know many farang here who haven't and I have met many many farang in my time.

It is Thailand that has brought this culture of visa runs, and as far as I am concerned, no visa running farang has ever abused a system put in place by immigration themselves.

If i correctly recall, just about the first postings of this was when a young Russian lady living in Phuket was loudly complaining that she was refused entry because she had gone to a wedding in KL. She was on a tourist visa and as she claimed was entitled to re enter after only a couple of days. However it was subsequently discovered that she had been living here for several years and was working as a Dive Company manager on a "60 day tourist visa"

Because of liars like her the Immigration dept has had to 'crack down' on the abuse of these visas. Yes maybe not all are abusers, but it had become an easy way to stay. If you want to stay, then get the proper visa and stop trying to bend the rules. I have a Non Imm 'O' so only have to do 90 day runs, giving me 15 months. If you get caught doing the wrong thing as she did, my advice is "Cop it sweet and stop the wingeing"

[Maggusoil]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

Well, no.

It is immigration job to stop possible violators from even entering.

Saying that, current crack down even on tourist visa holders is draconian.

May be Thailand should introduce 1 year tourist visa or alternatively develop a new program for people under the retirement age who may want to live in Thailand.

Again saying that , they did, the elite program which is fairly expansive. May be this is what Thailand wants , only people with money.

Nothing wrong with that, only people with money do not move to Thailand

People with money do not do this or do that. Money gives people with money more choices.

There are in fact more choices for people with "less" money. Vietnam, Myanmar, Combodia, the Philippines.

Personally I like Thailand. With or without money.

I also applaud the way they deal with their own sovereignty. It does not bother me at all that they restrict foreign ownership in "land"

and make sure that people coming here are above board in their affairs.

It is inconvenient for me, not to be able to buy land, but nevertheless I recognise its upside for the locals. Controlling your patch is your right.

For me it adds to the the strong sense of identity and uniqueness, that is part of Thailand.

[sanuk711]

Prostitution is regulated in Thailand, not illegal. Also the current changes in visa policy pre-date the junta.

I know its a joke ---But prostitution is illegal, & has been illegal in Thailand since 1960.

The "Entertainment Places Act of 1966", still in effect today,

I don't however want to get off topic....just clarifying that.

[BKKSnowBird]

What are all the illegal teachers doing?

[JDGRUEN]

'Saw this coming. More ahead no doubt. Preachy non-O holders, pack up your smugness in your old kit bag, 'cause you're next on the agenda. And it's not even 12 AUG yet. I actually doubt this is going to help Elite sales much. Turn-aways like this create confusion and uncertainty, which is the opposite of what someone buying an expensive visa (or any expensive investment, or expensive anything) for the long-term tend to look for and expect. The very few who allow themselves to be herded toward the Elite program will be outweighed baht-wise by the many wondering what the heck is going on, and just deciding they can live without the hassle & go elsewhere. Whoever's behind all this either has no concern for the long-term damage he's doing, or no understanding of it. It's like a store-owner telling customers they have to leave if they haven't bought anything within the first 15 minutes. He might have his reasons (e.g., fear of shoplifters), but he'll end up driving away all his business, even those who might otherwise be first-timers, who'll walk the other way just based on the bad hearsay without knowing or caring about the details.

And next after Non 'O' holders (who will be mostly forced to do Extensions of Stay for Retirement - if the qualify) - sometime down the road those on Extensions of Stay for Retirement (EoSR) with get the shaft in the arse. First just do away with the Embassy certificate in lieu of 800,000 in the bank (for those who are allowed to use the cert.)..... Then later push everyone on Extension of Stay for Retirement into the first level of the Elite Visa - 500,000 baht for five years by basically doing away with the EoSR all together. After all - all the EoSR folks have 800,000 in the bank don't they - the government wants that money - not just left lying around in a bank... Thailand has bills to pay ... Rice Scheme and all ...

In the end no one is going to be immune to this huge enforcement change which will lead to a whole mind set change by the Thai leadership.

But eventually the Thai Leadership will run into big problems when the Low Season in all the resort areas is the permanent season.

[oldsailor35]

So this is a taster of what is to come on a national scale in the next month.

This will put the brakes on many Thai girls marrying a farang from a nice western country.

No farang in their right mind would marry a girl within 30 days (or less) of knowing them just to get a non-imm visa.

Although you always get some stupid exceptions.

Maybe they are doing this to force tourists to shore up the struggling Thai Airways by making them fly for entry... who knows.

It may not end there either, if this is xenophobia induced then they are going to look for ways to give the non-imms some of their own problems.

I say we all move out of Thailand for Myanmar.... That'll screw em up

Good idea, all you '30 dayers' can now piss off.

[mikosan]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

I don't think so. People visiting here as "real" tourists are unlikely to be affected, particularly as they invariably arrive by air. As clearly stated in the OP, the eight people who were refused entry all had a history of border crossings and numerous Tourist Visas, so the official was clearly following orders not to allow bogus "tourists" into Thailand.

There are numerous ways that a person can arrange legal status in Thailand, and I certainly have no sympathy for anyone who uses tourist visas to carry out unlawful work in Thailand. I am of the opinion that once Thailand has rid itself of such bogus tourists, they may start to make things slightly easier for those of us who stay here legally - such as disposing of the pointless 90 day reporting ...!!

I couldn't agree more. There are far too many people abusing the system and now they're starting to complain when they are being prevented from doing so. Hard luck, do it legally and properly, like the rest of us do!