Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

[seancbk]

I would wager that embassy and consulates are processing higher a than average number of lost passport requests in light of the visa crackdown... A clean passport gives you a clean start at the borders...

Not true at all. When they scan a passport, the history comes up. In fact a blank passport book is probably going to be under even further scrutiny.

Thai scan system is not very good.

Databases are not well connected. Someone spoke to office about it here already...

There is a chance with new passport.

Reading many of you guys looking to find a trick, a gap, to stay here, in a dishonest and illegal way, makes me nauseous, and wish the visa rules will be made far more stringent in the future, and of strict application. Go get a life, somewhere else, you sad bunch!

Not trying to find a gap at all. I've been legally employed here for certain periods of time and I've taken time off between contracts to be a tourist.

I've never been an English teacher. Not that there is anything wrong with teaching English, but I get the feeling you think I'm some dosser living and working as a teacher or something.

Until recently there was no issue with someone entering on visa exemptions if coming as a tourist. And as I was based out of HK and Macau I was able to fly back and forth whenever I felt like it.

Now I'm about to start employment here again but have decided that I'd like to take advantage of some free time before that to start learning Thai properly, so rather than staying on a Tourist visa I will temporarily be on a proper ED visa.

I'm not sure why you have to be so negative about people who you don't know. You don't strike me as a very nice person and I feel rather sorry for you.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm a little confused - you moved to Thailand in 2008 for work so surely you've had a Non-Imm B and a work permit ever since ? That isnt the situation I'm referring to - have I read your post incorrectly ?

I'm confused too.

What difference does having a Non B and WP make to whether you need to show a ticket out?

Although it was during periods where I was between jobs and just coming here as a Tourist that I was asked.

Clearly a big difference between fronting Immigration with a Non-Imm B+WP and arriving as a tourist - the airlines would have known that too, even prior to the crackdown. I still havent read a report of someone with the former being bounced by Immigration - its obvious that they arent entering the country as a 'tourist',

[lostsoul49]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and xisas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

Thanks for the info, of course we will have to see if this is indeed the policy.

I signed up today for a 6 month Thai language course as a stop gap.

I'm forming a new company, but my current tourist visa will expire before the new company is ready and I can begin the process of getting a non B and a work permit, so I was hoping the Ed visa would cover me for a month or 2 while the company setup is completed.

Did you contact make any mention of how long a person will be turned away for, assuming they are?

Sorry, she didn't say anything about it, so I assume she never asked.

I think I will get my own wife to ring up tomorrow and ask that question.

BTW I think you will be fine with your non imm B visa and the Ed visa.

They are just coming down on tourist visas.

I have a feeling in the coming months the Thai ed visa service that provides a Thai language course are going to exploit this situation and probably;y going to raise their fees considerably.

A good workaround for those getting questioned...

I just looked on agoda.com and there are some cheap hotels with cancellation policy of 1 day prior to check in... some are as cheap as 250 baht a night.

Book 2 weeks in advance from the date you are entering Thailand, then cancel and lose only 1 night's fees (250 baht) you can also book another week hotel in Chiang Mai and another week in say Korat to make it look like you already have a month booked, you can cancel CM and Korat and won't lose anything.

It will be hard not to look like a tourist with that printout from agoda. For a cost of 250 baht.... gets you across the border.

I would not anything like this which is tantamount to lying to Immigration.

So what?

Why should that bother YOU?

[arunsakda]

The fourth moral precept is to refrain from false speech. In my case, if I told an Immigration officer that I was staying at Le Meridien Chiang Mai (for example) or wrote that on an arrival card, it would be accurate as much as I would know it to be so. So later, if somebody followed up on that information, nothing would be there to impugn my personal integrity as they could find me there unless my plans were changed by dire emergency. I would never say I'm staying somewhere I do not intend to visit. I think that would be wrong and disrespectful to the Immigration Dept.

So, if you were to tell immigration you are staying in Korat, but later that was discovered to be inaccurate, how would you explain that?

Edited July 16, 2014 by arunsakda

[max72]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

[IsaanUSA]

We all get it - you're fabulous and most of the rest of us are lower than whale crap. Now can you please give it a rest?

Illegals are lower than whale crap (lol, does a whale crap in the ocean?). They are criminals who are trespassing. They spread disease and undermine wages for residents. They are parasites that use up the resources of the host country. It takes officers to round up illegals, it takes diesel to ship them to the port, and it takes fuel to send them back to their country.

Don't be an illegal. Go through the proper channels that the government has setup.

[AYJAYDEE]

The fourth moral precept is to refrain from false speech. In my case, if I told an Immigration officer that I was staying at Le Meridien Chiang Mai (for example) or wrote that on an arrival card, it would be accurate as much as I would know it to be so. So later, if somebody followed up on that information, nothing would be there to impugn my personal integrity as they could find me there unless my plans were changed by dire emergency. I would never say I'm staying somewhere I do not intend to visit. I think that would be wrong and disrespectful to the Immigration Dept.

So, if you were to tell immigration you are staying in Korat, but later that was discovered to be inaccurate, how would you explain that?

by saying plans change

[arunsakda]

Plans do change but mindful

adults do not concoct subterfuges to trick, insult and disrespect officers of the Royal Thai Department of Immigration.

[max72]

So far, five pages of comments. Get a grip everyone. They have begun to enforce the law. If you have been violating the intent of the law with regards to tourist visas, you know it. What's with all the comments and questions? If you have based your life on violating the law, who is supposed to feel sorry for you? You have probably had a good run over the years and now it's time to either get with the program or move on. What's so difficult?

Who do you think you are to misjudge and slander us ?

I haven't violating ANYTHING. I am a tourist who decided to spend my winter holiday in Thailand.

The comments are because we WANT TO KNOW what we will be allowed to do and what we won't ...because now we are hearing dozens different versions, if we know how the new rules are WE WILL FOLLOW THEM, pure and simple. Otherwise if Thailand hate long term tourists who like to COME BACK , we will choose another country (every other country in the world welcome tourists who spend lots of money)...Period. No need to treat tourists as they were criminals. If you are not interested in this topic, log off. Pure and simple. This forum is used to exchange information. If you don't like it, go to have a beer.

Edited July 16, 2014 by max72

[gray42]

We all get it - you're fabulous and most of the rest of us are lower than whale crap. Now can you please give it a rest?

Illegals are lower than whale crap (lol, does a whale crap in the ocean?). They are criminals who are trespassing. They spread disease and undermine wages for residents. They are parasites that use up the resources of the host country. It takes officers to round up illegals, it takes diesel to ship them to the port, and it takes fuel to send them back to their country.

Don't be an illegal. Go through the proper channels that the government has setup.

Thailand gives illegal workers almost free work permits, only 1,305 baht. So I believe what you mean to say is farang are lower than whale crap. Illegal Burmese, Cambodian, or Laotian workers are treated better. http://www.thephuketnews.com/big-drive-soon-to-register-illegal-workers-in-phuket-47378.php

Edited July 16, 2014 by gray42

[AYJAYDEE]

Plans do change but mindful

adults do not concoct subterfuges to trick, insult and disrespect officers of the Royal Thai Department of Immigration.

if the officer cannot understand that many tourists stay with friends, own their own place or do not book hotels in advance preferring to get a hotel wherever they happen to be, then that is the only way to satisfy his ignorant request.

[lostsoul49]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

[max72]

A hypothetical case.

A Belgian spends 4 and a half months in Thailand then 1 and a half months in Belgium and repeats this cycle over and over. He covers his 4 and a half months in Thailand with a double entry tourist visa each time.

How would this be viewed by immigration?

(Assume said Belgian is 38 years old, not married to a Thai, has a rental property and 100,000 Euros of investments in Belgium which provide an income).

Hmmm I think it could be more suspect than me.

I spend 4-5 months (Nov-March) mostly in Thailand, but than I stay out half a year. I think it's clear i am not working in Thailand. I hope so.

You also don't look to be working in Thailand, if you stay 3 months outside, but if they apply the rule (?) 180 days every 360 days, you are burnt, because you spend more time in Thailand than abroad.

The problem it is not clear, there are no numbers and cases like yours are in that grey area.

However if you always have exit tickets and never go to neighbour countries by land, your chances to be considered tourist increase.

But It is possible you would be forced to spend more time abroad and little bit less time in Thailand.

Let's see after 12 August what happen and try to stay in touch with the Thai Embassy in Belgium.

In which hotel/resort/restaurant is your hypothetical Belgian working illegally during the touristic high seasons, while falsely staying here as a tourist?

I don't work, I don;t need to. I have money. I spend my time travelling and i like to spend the winter months in Southeast Asia.

Your lies and slanders are indeed ILLEGAL, because you are publicly slandering people in a public forum without any evidence of that.

Since I can prove everything I am saying and my records in my own country or my inmigration record in Thailand (only one overestay for 1 day) , I am afraid your slanderous statements are violating the laws of Thailand and you are punishable by law.

I think Thailand should expel straight aways multiply law violators like you.

It looks like yoy are soooo familiar with law violations, since these are the only words you use against all forumists.

Edited July 16, 2014 by max72

[max72]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Excuse me but I quote your words "no matter what visa you have".

Hence my question.

[AYJAYDEE]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Excuse me but I quote your words "no matter what visa you have".

Hence my question.

he meant no matter what kind of tourist visa (single, double or triple entry)

[gray42]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Do you have anything to back that up? I've heard otherwise...

[max72]

I don't like that part of the red stamp. If they let you in because you prove you are a legal tourist, they 'll put you a red stamp because you have been questioned ???

That's crazy. Entry agreed but red stamp on.

6 months in one year, I won't be refused because last winter i spent 3 months in Thailand, next winter i plan to spend 4-5. But 6 months in 2 years I will be questioned, I show my ticket, credit cards, etc, I am granted the entry but I am redstamped ?? Why ?

Will be a kind of reward to be a faithful tourist ?

[AYJAYDEE]

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

No matter what visa you have ?

So even if you go back on business or on O visa you will be refused ? Tourist not ok, other visas not ok.

Everybody out please !

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Do you have anything to back that up? I've heard otherwise...

how could they clamp down on a non-tourist visa for not being a bonafide tourist?

[lostsoul49]

We all get it - you're fabulous and most of the rest of us are lower than whale crap. Now can you please give it a rest?

Illegals are lower than whale crap (lol, does a whale crap in the ocean?). They are criminals who are trespassing. They spread disease and undermine wages for residents. They are parasites that use up the resources of the host country. It takes officers to round up illegals, it takes diesel to ship them to the port, and it takes fuel to send them back to their country.

Don't be an illegal. Go through the proper channels that the government has setup.

Why are you and many other members constantly saying that tourist visa runners are 'illegal' or 'abusing the tourist visa'?????

Up until now, staying long term on multiple tourist visas was 100% legal... You went to a country and obtained a tourist visa from a Thai enbassy. You fill in the forms and pay your fee and they gave you a visa.

You turn up at the border and the IO checks your new visa and they let you into the country.

You go to immigration and extend your visa, and they do it for you happily.

At all these procedures, your past history of using multiple tourist visas is there for all to see.

So can you lot explain to me.... how is this 'abusing the system'? I mean.... If all the authorities all along the way have accommodated you, how is that illegal??? Have they been helping you break the law????

Ridiculous.

Also, for all those who have been saying tourists are not important to Thailand and Thais can exist quite easily without them.... You are on drugs.

Tourists inject around 2.2 trillion baht a year into the economy. The entire government budget for 2015 is not much more than that... So if this 2.2 trillion all of a sudden went missing, you think Thailand won't feel it? What will the annual budget be without that money?

Tourism is very much needed in Thailand, without it, it would be just another Cambodia or Laos...

The authorities are playing with fire by mucking around with the tourist visa system. If it aint broke, don't fix it, and 2.2 trillion a year says it aint broke. But messing around with it, and it CAN break.

What happens after August 12th is anyone's guess.

If thousands of people start getting turned away, what is stopping reporters in the west covering these horror stories from making it look like huge problems with tourists being turned away at the airport and being left stranded at land borders etc.... This could be really taken out of context, and we all know how reporters like to make a meal out of a situation.

This could end up ringing a lot of alarm bells worldwide and mr and mrs 2 week tourist might just not want to risk going to Thailand if there is a possibility they could be turned down.

Sure us living here know all the details, but what about someone who saw a news report or read it in a newspaper?... all they will remember is that Thailand is now a dodgy choice and they may not get any entry.

What is certain is that there are going to be many horror stories come out of this and it is the sort of thing that makes a good story.

Like I said.... The Thai authorities may well be playing with fire, and this could come back and bite them.

Surely there are other ways to stop people from working on a tourist visa without having to blanket bomb the tourist visa system.

Edited July 16, 2014 by lostsoul49

[arunsakda]

Plans do change but mindful

adults do not concoct subterfuges to trick, insult and disrespect officers of the Royal Thai Department of Immigration.

if the officer cannot understand that many tourists stay with friends, own their own place or do not book hotels in advance preferring to get a hotel wherever they happen to be, then that is the only way to satisfy his ignorant request.

I dont have any hotel bookings. I stay at my own condo in Chiang Mai which I own in my own name freehold. That is the only thing I will be telling immigration unless I will be staying in Bkk for a few nights which I do so occasionally, no lies.

[gray42]

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Do you have anything to back that up? I've heard otherwise...

how could they clamp down on a non-tourist visa for not being a bonafide tourist?

Because people can still have a 1 year, multiple entry visa and not have a work permit, so they can still be working illegally (which is the point, they don't want people working here illegally)

[RandomSand]

Note how it's aimed at at stopping tourists who illegally work?

I'd guess that Iranians, Nigerians and other nationalities, from 2nd & 3rd world countries, are the more likely to be the target of this "policy" than well-heeled westerners.

You read it and think it MUST apply to you... think again.

If you are drawing money from a non-THAI bank account, print off your account statements showing transfer / withdrawal into TH, then you can PROVE you are a tourist.

No need to get your knickers in a twist... unless you *are* actually working on tourist visas, of course!

Edited July 16, 2014 by RandomSand

[AYJAYDEE]

No... They are only counting tourist visas, not any other visa.

Do you have anything to back that up? I've heard otherwise...

how could they clamp down on a non-tourist visa for not being a bonafide tourist?

Because people can still have a 1 year, multiple entry visa and not have a work permit, so they can still be working illegally (which is the point, they don't want people working here illegally)

then why would they offer a non-o multi which can only be acquired at home and wont be a back to back if they would not let you use the multi entries?

[gray42]

Do you have anything to back that up? I've heard otherwise...

how could they clamp down on a non-tourist visa for not being a bonafide tourist?

Because people can still have a 1 year, multiple entry visa and not have a work permit, so they can still be working illegally (which is the point, they don't want people working here illegally)

then why would they offer a non-o multi which can only be acquired at home and wont be a back to back if they would not let you use the multi entries?

The same reason they'll issue you a tourist visa and not let you use it. It's the back-to-back extensions that I'm worried about. Anyway, it seems the majority of people say there will be no problem. A couple other people were saying there will be a problem. Just trying to get any info on it that I can.

Edited July 16, 2014 by gray42

[MrWorldwide]

We all get it - you're fabulous and most of the rest of us are lower than whale crap. Now can you please give it a rest?

Illegals are lower than whale crap (lol, does a whale crap in the ocean?). They are criminals who are trespassing. They spread disease and undermine wages for residents. They are parasites that use up the resources of the host country. It takes officers to round up illegals, it takes diesel to ship them to the port, and it takes fuel to send them back to their country.

Don't be an illegal. Go through the proper channels that the government has setup.

Seriously - you dont get out much, do you ? Lumping visa runners in with illegal immigrants - presumably based on prior experience in the US - to slander everyone who doesnt enjoy your current visa status. Its ironic that we frequently accuse the Thais of xenophobia when your post reeks of it - can you imagine if a Thai posted something similar about 'Farang scum' on this forum ?

Please dont bring your 'I hate wetbacks' redneck BS to this forum - this is a thread about people who had little or no prior knowledge of the crackdown being turned away by Thai Immigration, not a thread for racist xenophobes with an axe to grind.

[arunsakda]

Plans do change but mindful

adults do not concoct subterfuges to trick, insult and disrespect officers of the Royal Thai Department of Immigration.

if the officer cannot understand that many tourists stay with friends, own their own place or do not book hotels in advance preferring to get a hotel wherever they happen to be, then that is the only way to satisfy his ignorant request.

I dont have any hotel bookings. I stay at my own condo in Chiang Mai which I own in my own name freehold. That is the only thing I will be telling immigration unless I will be staying in Bkk for a few nights which I do so occasionally, no lies.

@AYJAYDEE IF you tell lies to immigration you are exactly the type of Farang who should be denied entry, IMHO. I'm not saying you are but you have suggested this as stategy to trick immigration. Actually, borders are nothing more than a fantasy of the human mind.

[lostsoul49]

Actually, I think all the farang that I know who are illegally working here as either teachers, or they run bars/restaurants or internet based work are all on non imm O visas and not tourist visas.

They are married to Thais but don't have the WP.

It is not the visa runner that is working illegally, although there must be some, but the authorities are barking up the wrong tree and are inconveniencing a lot of people to scupper what I would say was a vast minority.

[AYJAYDEE]

Plans do change but mindful

adults do not concoct subterfuges to trick, insult and disrespect officers of the Royal Thai Department of Immigration.

if the officer cannot understand that many tourists stay with friends, own their own place or do not book hotels in advance preferring to get a hotel wherever they happen to be, then that is the only way to satisfy his ignorant request.

I dont have any hotel bookings. I stay at my own condo in Chiang Mai which I own in my own name freehold. That is the only thing I will be telling immigration unless I will be staying in Bkk for a few nights which I do so occasionally, no lies.

@AYJAYDEE IF you tell lies to immigration you are exactly the type of Farang who should be denied entry, IMHO. I'm not saying you are but you have suggested this as stategy to trick immigration. Actually, borders are nothing more than a fantasy of the human mind.

well as you are not an employee of the immigration ministry, i dont think i will spend much time worrying about YHO

[AYJAYDEE]

The same reason they'll issue you a tourist visa and not let you use it. It's the back-to-back extensions that I'm worried about. Anyway, it seems the majority of people say there will be no problem. A couple other people were saying there will be a problem. Just trying to get any info on it that I can.

there is no evidence that they will refuse an O/I on a double tourist visa if it is not a back to back visa and there are no back to back 30 day entries.

[paddyjenkins]

According to the immigration department rules, a maximum of one 30 day entry stamp is permitted. That's right, the rule just says one stamp. I have no idea if that means in a lifetime, in a passport, per year, per two months or what. But that's the rule, as stupid and senseless as it seems. So, if an Immigration officer wants to be strict, just don't bother visiting Thailand, the risks are simply too high for legitimate tourists.

That is what their rule appears to amount to, incredibly. Which means in theory, somebody who visited once, last year say, for a few weeks, could be barred from entry if they don't have a tourist visa and would just have expected another 30 day stamp.

Or, people who regularly visit for a few weeks at a time and then return home to work for a few weeks, or do whatever, would be barred. That could impact oil rig workers for example, or just wealthy people who like to spend a few weeks at home followed by a few weeks in Thailand etc.

Although the stated aim is to prevent people from obtaining back to back tourist visas or entry stamps, assuming that these people are illegal workers, there is no clarity, apart from what I said above, to define what too many visits means. One immigration officer may decide that back to back means out one day and in the same day or a day or so later, others may decide it just means several visits a year, without checking whether they have stayed out for days, weeks or months.

This level of uncertainty and hassle of now having to obtain a tourist visa even for a short visit is bound to deter many genuine tourists. Who will want to take the risk of being refused entry and essentially deported? And even if you have a tourist visa my understanding is there is still no guarantee you will be allowed entry. What of you have 3 tourist visas already, is that too many? Or two? If there is no clarity then there are risks that are unacceptable.

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