Visa crackdown: Is this the end of the road for unqualified ESL teachers in Thailand?

[FangFerang]

I disagree entirely with the article claiming that schools cannot afford to pay teachers more than 30,000 baht.  Private schools are subsidized. They collect tuition, 40-70k per year for private schools and more than 100k for an international school, then get 30k per year from the government as a subsidy per student. This is 70-130k per student per year.  At a conservative class size of 25 students, such schools that have only one class in grades 1-6 rake in  875,000 per month-- plus uniform fees (ka-ching) book fees (ka-ching) and activity fees (ka-ching),

 

I see three things coming.  1) More Filipino teachers, and fewer farangs getting even 30k per month -- maybe one qualified teacher for a each school.  2) a huge influx of illegal workers on student visas teaching (and not paying taxes) and 3)   Even cheaper lunches being served and Same same.

 

Amazing Thailand.

[duanebigsby]

I agree. The teachers working for 1000 dollars a month are perpetuating an almost slave wage as I see it. 9 to 5 for 1000 per month?! For me, the statement you are making here is "I don't value my life and time (or at least you think it is only worth 1000 dollars a month). If people stop taking these jobs the pay must go up by simple law of supply vs demand. If you must work one of these jobs, you should be doing nothing but searching for a higher paying job when actually working, as the remuneration dictates this.

I'm teaching here for the "slave wage" and I value my life and time highly. That's the whole reason I moved here.

Try putting it into perspective and maybe you'll see why many of us will work for 30k baht. I lived in one of the world's most expensive cities, Vancouver. I made slightly over $4k a month and was hard pressed to put $500 of that away each month.
Each year I could save maybe 2 months living expenses.

Here on the $1000 a month, I can put $400 of it away easily. I can save about 8 months living expenses every year.

And I'm happy.

If I stopped taking these jobs, I would be back in the cold, gray, drizzle of a city I didn't like anymore.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

[mjj]

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

But this is just unrealistic. Sure, in an ideal world all the teachers would have those qualifications, but then they would not work for 30k. Thailand doesn't want to pay top dollar, so they can't eat at the top table.

I agree with your sentiments, but it would need to be a two way street.

I'd be interested to know how many PGCE qualified teachers there are in Thailand working for 30-40k. I would guess, none.

[casualbiker]

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

But this is just unrealistic. Sure, in an ideal world all the teachers would have those qualifications, but then they would not work for 30k. Thailand doesn't want to pay top dollar, so they can't eat at the top table.

I agree with your sentiments, but it would need to be a two way street.

I'd be interested to know how many PGCE qualified teachers there are in Thailand working for 30-40k. I would guess, none.

And they wouldn't be legal anyway (Krusapha regs for teachers licence.visa and work permit) So that's the stupidity of the situation!

AOA cannot seem to grasp the concept of TEFL teaching and teachers!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[enuff said]

.

 

This is all a big pile of BS.  They should stop teaching English TOMORROW and start teaching Mandarin.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

 

'nuff said

 

 

~

 

[casualbiker]

.
 
This is all a big pile of BS.  They should stop teaching English TOMORROW and start teaching Mandarin.
 
Wake up and smell the coffee.
 
 
'nuff said
 
 
~
 

Many schools teach it already.

' 说得够多了

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mjj]

.
 
This is all a big pile of BS.  They should stop teaching English TOMORROW and start teaching Mandarin.
 
Wake up and smell the coffee.
 
 
'nuff said
 
 
~
 

Coffee smells good, but I fail to see what oranges have to do with anything.........

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think the name 'Lucie' and I had to leave my husband behind for now, too, as the UK also recently changed some rules about visas....  suggest he is a she and her husband can't go to the UK with her because of the new  financial requirements for the UK visa.
 
Maybe I'm wrong but perhaps Lucie will confirm this if that hasn't happened already.

Foreign female spouse of Thai male has no requirement for any income (or savings) for a marriage extension.
And indeed can apply for Thai citizenship with no job and no income. Edited July 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

AOA cannot seem to grasp the concept of TEFL teaching and teachers!

Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong? Edited July 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[casualbiker]

AOA cannot seem to grasp the concept of TEFL teaching and teachers!

Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong?

Not sure what you mean? Can you expand!

Spain from someone's blog -  Now I went through the auxiliares de conversación program through the Spanish Ministry of Education, thought there are several other routes you can also get the magical golden ticket (visa) to live in Spain as an American

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited July 19, 2014 by casualbiker

[AnotherOneAmerican]

AOA cannot seem to grasp the concept of TEFL teaching and teachers!

Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong?

Not sure what you mean? Can you expand!

Spain from someone's blog -  Now I went through the auxiliares de conversación program through the Spanish Ministry of Education, thought there are several other routes you can also get the magical golden ticket (visa) to live in Spain as an American

Yes I can expand,
I don't believe that a person whom holds a TEFL, as their only educational qualification, is a suitable person to be allowed to work with children during their compulsory school hours. It's all about trust and responsibility, monitoring, supervision and care for our young.

A view stared by the Thai government and most (if not all) western governments.

Further education, adult education, private tutoring, English camps, out of school courses, different argument. Personal choice is involved, parents don't have to leave their children in the care of those adults. Edited July 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[casualbiker]

AOA cannot seem to grasp the concept of TEFL teaching and teachers!

Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong?

Not sure what you mean? Can you expand!

Spain from someone's blog -  Now I went through the auxiliares de conversación program through the Spanish Ministry of Education, thought there are several other routes you can also get the magical golden ticket (visa) to live in Spain as an American

Yes I can expand,
I don't believe that a person whom holds a TEFL, as their only educational qualification, is a suitable person to be allowed to work with children during their compulsory school hours.

A view stared by the Thai government and most (if not all) western governments.

Well the Thai government are going to have to hike the wages for both foreign and Thai teachers to accommodate that view then aren't they. Tefl teachers fill a hole that is there for English conversation and sentence structure.
Grammar alone is not good enough. Thai and (many) Filipinos don't have the language skills required. Also it is Krusapha (Thai teachers council) not the Ministry of Education that have imposed these new BA'ed rules.

Also strange that the same rules don't apply to university's here isn't it.

http://site.ksp.or.th/content.php?site=englishsite&SiteMenuID=18&Action=view&Sys_Page=&Sys_PageSize=&DataID=8

For those that are not aware of the situation here is a fairly concise write up about the situation. With one caveat. The teachers license tests were canceled December 2013 with no notice or subsequent replacement!


http://seetefl.com/tct-teaching-license/

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited July 19, 2014 by casualbiker

[wilcopops]

there are some clueless people here who have no idea about teaching in Thailand yet still think they are in a position to pass judgement on an "acceptable" salary

[metisdead]

A post commenting on HM the King has been removed:

 

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

[wilcopops]

 

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

 

 

 

you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.

[brewsterbudgen]

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.

Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change. Edited July 19, 2014 by brewsterbudgen

[EBlair48]

I've met some real flakes residing here on " education visa" and teaching illegally on their internet obtained TEF "credentials"

One of them I met  just last week who IMO is one of the most unbalanced individuals I've ever met, get her out of Tail-land and away from kids  quick. These cheats undermine the wages and working conditions of REAL teachers

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong?

Not sure what you mean? Can you expand!

Spain from someone's blog -  Now I went through the auxiliares de conversación program through the Spanish Ministry of Education, thought there are several other routes you can also get the magical golden ticket (visa) to live in Spain as an American

Yes I can expand,
I don't believe that a person whom holds a TEFL, as their only educational qualification, is a suitable person to be allowed to work with children during their compulsory school hours.

A view stared by the Thai government and most (if not all) western governments.

Well the Thai government are going to have to hike the wages for both foreign and Thai teachers to accommodate that view then aren't they. Tefl teachers fill a hole that is there for English conversation and sentence structure.
Grammar alone is not good enough. Thai and (many) Filipinos don't have the language skills required. Also it is Krusapha (Thai teachers council) not the Ministry of Education that have imposed these new BA'ed rules.

Also strange that the same rules don't apply to university's here isn't it.

Not at all strange, of paramount importance is the safety of the children.
I don't care if my children are taught English, I do care that they are in safe hands while in the schools care.
People who have only invested 6-8 weeks of their life on training should not be trusted with children.
Someone with a degree and teaching status has trained and been monitored for 4 years.

Adults in a university can take care of themselves.

[rgs2001uk]

 

 

 

What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?

Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)

 

 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.

 

Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change.

 

 

I know exactly what a TEFlr is.

There was some TEFLr on the teechers (deliberate TEFLr spelling) forum boasting that he was making 1 million baht per year in Saudi, had he been a proper teacher with proper qualifiactions working for a large MNC his salary would be about 4 million baht per year.

 

Thats the difference, yes you can teach anywhere, Thailand is no different, Thailand like many countries knows the difference, hence the difference in pay packets.

 

Language schools dont need to do anything, plenty of Pinoy teachers more than happy to work for less than gap year students.

The future is AEC.

 

[casualbiker]

[quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8124416" timestamp="1405779681"][quote name="casualbiker" post="8122991" timestamp="1405756657"][quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122950" timestamp="1405756040"][quote name="casualbiker" post="8122852" timestamp="1405754720"][quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122837" timestamp="1405754475"]Neither can the Thai government nor any western government.
Can we all be wrong?[/quote]Not sure what you mean? Can you expand!

Spain from someone's blog -  Now I went through the auxiliares de conversación program through the Spanish Ministry of Education, thought there are several other routes you can also get the magical golden ticket (visa) to live in Spain as an American[/quote]Yes I can expand,
I don't believe that a person whom holds a TEFL, as their only educational qualification, is a suitable person to be allowed to work with children during their compulsory school hours.

A view stared by the Thai government and most (if not all) western governments.[/quote]Well the Thai government are going to have to hike the wages for both foreign and Thai teachers to accommodate that view then aren't they. Tefl teachers fill a hole that is there for English conversation and sentence structure.
Grammar alone is not good enough. Thai and (many) Filipinos don't have the language skills required. Also it is Krusapha (Thai teachers council) not the Ministry of Education that have imposed these new BA'ed rules.

Also strange that the same rules don't apply to university's here isn't it.[/quote]
Not at all strange, of paramount importance is the safety of the children.
I don't care if my children are taught English, I do care that they are in safe hands while in the schools care.
People who have only invested 6-8 weeks of their life on training should not be trusted with children.
Someone with a degree and teaching status has trained and been monitored for 4 years.

Adults in a university can take care of themselves.[/quote]

The teachers are teaching in the schools. The classes are monitored by school. Your trying to make it sound like tefl teachers are pedophiles which I think is an abhorrent attempt at self justification!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[casualbiker]

[quote name="rgs2001uk" post="8124452" timestamp="1405780481"][quote name="brewsterbudgen" post="8124089" timestamp="1405774060"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8123959" timestamp="1405771868"] [quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122733" timestamp="1405752847"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8120332" timestamp="1405698340"]What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?[/quote]
Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)
 [/quote] 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.
 [/quote]
Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change.
 [/quote]
 
I know exactly what a TEFlr is.
There was some TEFLr on the teechers (deliberate TEFLr spelling) forum boasting that he was making 1 million baht per year in Saudi, had he been a proper teacher with proper qualifiactions working for a large MNC his salary would be about 4 million baht per year.
 
Thats the difference, yes you can teach anywhere, Thailand is no different, Thailand like many countries knows the difference, hence the difference in pay packets.
 
Language schools dont need to do anything, plenty of Pinoy teachers more than happy to work for less than gap year students.
The future is AEC.

 [/quote]

You would rather Thai kids are taught by Filipinos rather than native speakers?
Most Thai parents think differently. They want native speakers. That's why they pay to send their kids to the private schools and government schools that have native speaking language teachers, English, Chinese or otherwise!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AYJAYDEE]

[quote name="brewsterbudgen" post="8124089" timestamp="1405774060"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8123959" timestamp="1405771868"] [quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122733" timestamp="1405752847"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8120332" timestamp="1405698340"]What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?[/quote]
Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)
 [/quote] 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.
 [/quote]
Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change.
 [/quote]
 
I know exactly what a TEFlr is.
There was some TEFLr on the teechers (deliberate TEFLr spelling) forum boasting that he was making 1 million baht per year in Saudi, had he been a proper teacher with proper qualifiactions working for a large MNC his salary would be about 4 million baht per year.
 
Thats the difference, yes you can teach anywhere, Thailand is no different, Thailand like many countries knows the difference, hence the difference in pay packets.
 
Language schools dont need to do anything, plenty of Pinoy teachers more than happy to work for less than gap year students.
The future is AEC.

 

You would rather Thai kids are taught by Filipinos rather than native speakers?
Most Thai parents think differently. They want native speakers. That's why they pay to send their kids to the private schools and government schools that have native speaking language teachers, English, Chinese or otherwise!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

rather my kids learn from a filipino than a geordie

[GoonDizzy]

You could get lucky, like I have.

 

Matumba Odeyuimcho from Lagos is about to send me 20 million dollars after I send him 500 dollars. What a stroke of luck! What time does the bank open?

[casualbiker]

[quote name="AYJAYDEE" post="8124987" timestamp="1405794919"][quote name="casualbiker" post="8124860" timestamp="1405788902"][quote name="rgs2001uk" post="8124452" timestamp="1405780481"][quote name="brewsterbudgen" post="8124089" timestamp="1405774060"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8123959" timestamp="1405771868"] [quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122733" timestamp="1405752847"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8120332" timestamp="1405698340"]What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?[/quote]
Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)
 [/quote] 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.
 [/quote]
Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change.
 [/quote]
 
I know exactly what a TEFlr is.
There was some TEFLr on the teechers (deliberate TEFLr spelling) forum boasting that he was making 1 million baht per year in Saudi, had he been a proper teacher with proper qualifiactions working for a large MNC his salary would be about 4 million baht per year.
 
Thats the difference, yes you can teach anywhere, Thailand is no different, Thailand like many countries knows the difference, hence the difference in pay packets.
 
Language schools dont need to do anything, plenty of Pinoy teachers more than happy to work for less than gap year students.
The future is AEC.

 [/quote]

You would rather Thai kids are taught by Filipinos rather than native speakers?
Most Thai parents think differently. They want native speakers. That's why they pay to send their kids to the private schools and government schools that have native speaking language teachers, English, Chinese or otherwise!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app[/quote]
rather my kids learn from a filipino than a geordie[/quote]

Why? Pretty much the same accent at times!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simondan]

Last time we heard about cleaning the immigration status of illegal workers, it was about the Cambodian nationals => they went back home but Thais realized they badly needed them => Cambodians came back.
Same story here? No => Thais DON'T NEED English teachers from abroad because millions Thais speak a perfect English and can teach to the children.

'Millions of Thais speak perfect English'.
Are you serious? Perhaps there is some parallel universe Thailand out there I dont know about but I doubt you'd find even half a million Thais with 'perfect English'. Actually, make that 100, 000 Thais. The standard of English here is terrible, surely that is beyond dispute.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simondan]

[quote name="AYJAYDEE" post="8124987" timestamp="1405794919"][quote name="casualbiker" post="8124860" timestamp="1405788902"][quote name="rgs2001uk" post="8124452" timestamp="1405780481"][quote name="brewsterbudgen" post="8124089" timestamp="1405774060"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8123959" timestamp="1405771868"] [quote name="AnotherOneAmerican" post="8122733" timestamp="1405752847"] [quote name="wilcopops" post="8120332" timestamp="1405698340"]What do they mean by "unqualified"? - Are we talking about actual qualifications or visas and permits?[/quote]
Has not achieved QTS in his home country.
Degree in Education or Degree + state exam (PGCE, etc.)
 [/quote] 
 
you don't seem to understand what TEFL is.
 [/quote]
Indeed. Many who pontificate about teaching in Thailand have no concept about what TEFL is. You can teach TEFL anywhere in the world with a (decent) TEFL qualification. Thailand is no different, other than it pays rather less than most other countries, presumably because there are plenty of TEFLers wanting to teach there. If Language Schools don't get their visa/work permit act together that will start to change.
 [/quote]
 
I know exactly what a TEFlr is.
There was some TEFLr on the teechers (deliberate TEFLr spelling) forum boasting that he was making 1 million baht per year in Saudi, had he been a proper teacher with proper qualifiactions working for a large MNC his salary would be about 4 million baht per year.
 
Thats the difference, yes you can teach anywhere, Thailand is no different, Thailand like many countries knows the difference, hence the difference in pay packets.
 
Language schools dont need to do anything, plenty of Pinoy teachers more than happy to work for less than gap year students.
The future is AEC.

 [/quote]

You would rather Thai kids are taught by Filipinos rather than native speakers?
Most Thai parents think differently. They want native speakers. That's why they pay to send their kids to the private schools and government schools that have native speaking language teachers, English, Chinese or otherwise!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app[/quote]
rather my kids learn from a filipino than a geordie[/quote]

Or one of those flaming whining South Africans!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The teachers are teaching in the schools. The classes are monitored by school. Your trying to make it sound like tefl teachers are pedophiles which I think is an abhorrent attempt at self justification!

Quite a lot of them appear to undesirables of varying types.
I knew 2 TEFL qualified 'teachers' in CM.
Both alcoholics that would stagger into school every morning with pounding hangovers.
Never met any qualified teachers that behaved like that.

Not to mention the most famous TEFL teacher of all, Stickman Bangkok. Edited July 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[duanebigsby]

 

The teachers are teaching in the schools. The classes are monitored by school. Your trying to make it sound like tefl teachers are pedophiles which I think is an abhorrent attempt at self justification!

Quite a lot of them appear to undesirables of varying types.
I knew 2 TEFL qualified 'teachers' in CM.
Both alcoholics that would stagger into school every morning with pounding hangovers.
Never met any qualified teachers that behaved like that.

Not to mention the most famous TEFL teacher of all, Stickman Bangkok.

 

Every thread there has ever been, you are accusing anyone with a TEFL as a pedophile or alcoholic.

You've met some bad ones. So what? I've met PhD's in Education who showed up to lecture in University drunk. So what?

[simondan]

 

The teachers are teaching in the schools. The classes are monitored by school. Your trying to make it sound like tefl teachers are pedophiles which I think is an abhorrent attempt at self justification!

Quite a lot of them appear to undesirables of varying types.
I knew 2 TEFL qualified 'teachers' in CM.
Both alcoholics that would stagger into school every morning with pounding hangovers.
Never met any qualified teachers that behaved like that.

Not to mention the most famous TEFL teacher of all, Stickman Bangkok.
 

Every thread there has ever been, you are accusing anyone with a TEFL as a pedophile or alcoholic.
You've met some bad ones. So what? I've met PhD's in Education who showed up to lecture in University drunk. So what?

Exactly.
And its not like university-qualified teachers ever get found guilty of paedophilia now is it?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app