Step-daughter UK Settlement Refusal

[Ch23]

Hello,

so my TW picked up her settlement visa this morning but her daughters (my step-daughters) settlement visa was refused. o great!

I have attached the refusal letter and .

the main points for dismissal were:

1) her mother works away from home for extended periods of time (the "expert" interpreter asked her if she had worked away from home before which she replied yes. but she did not say how many times) in fact this was only three periods of up to three months which finished in 2009. she subsequetly quit this job to spend more time with her daughter. we made this very clear in the application. during this period we had to pay for a baby sister to aid her grandmother in looking after her daughter as she is incapable of doing it herself. The biological father gave minimal support in the beginning which quickly dissipated. all of this was explained in detail but clearly fell on deaf ears. In fact my wife spends far more time than most mothers that i know with their children. They are good friends as well as mother/daughter.

2) step-daughter is in regular contact with her father. Christmas is regular, so is the changing of the seasons. Regular implies a structure, a fixed date. In relation to this case it implies care and affection. nothing can be further than the truth, which is what we explained. He turns up unannounced every 2-3 months for brief periods to speak with his daughter. she is actively afraid of him she avoids him at all costs and cries at the implication of a visit. they are not close. he was forced to pay child support for 2 years but this is a pittance to the true cost of raising a child. he has now stopped. we never asked for this money and have never touched the account were it ends up. Furthermore he doesn't pay any attention to birthdays, christmas or new year. basically he could give a toss and was hapy to sign her away when we said we were leaving to start a new life. He brought his daughter along to their last meeting (the one the FCO talks about) his new kid from another marriage is 2-3 years old. this is her half sister and this is the first time they have ever met or spoken at her fare-the-well meal. Again these comments have either not been read or over looked. i dont know what they are thinking?

3)he says no evidence, albeit a few photos to step-fathers positive role model. i have thousands of photos which i said were available on request. i provided a photo for each year of her life that i have known her. what do they want a list of everything i have done for her. i speak to her daily and face to face at weekends. I pay for her sport classes and other fun activities which were initiated by me.

4) moving to a new country would be bad for her culturally. erm?! being without a mother or anyone to support would be a good thing? We explained that she can speak reasonable English for a girl of her age (she got the second highest mark in her class, behind a farang child). she attends a private catholic school that me and her mother pay for. her best friends are mixed. she made friends during her visit to my house in the uk. she watches and plays with western toys. Beyond that, i am the person she calls dad and has done for the past 6 years. She has a western stepdad for peats sake.

arrgh rant over, i cant understand what they were thinking. If they were thinking at all.

I have a couple of questions which i would be grateful for a reply for:

- what are waiting times like in the appeals process ( i applied just before they canceled this right so i can appeal)??

- if i apply again with a fresh application should i just over whelm them with evidence?? i was fairly concise before thinking that they wouldn't want to read much but clearly reading is not a strong point for them.

- any ideas how I should address these points are welcome. They have clearly got the wrong end of the stick here. Infact they never manged to hold a stick or are incapable of simple tasks. it makes me think they were reading somone else's application because to imply anyone else is involved in her upbringing is lunacy.

- what is the implication for her mothers visa? its only so long and she needs to be here for a certain amount of time. will she need to reapply aswell??

ta muchly.

[theoldgit]

I think you might be better contacting an agent who can give an expert view on your position.

Thai Visa Express will give you a free and honest initial assessment.

[Seekingasylum]

Oh dear.

Sponsoring child settlement is difficult. The criteria for interpreting sole responsibility is narrowly interpreted by the Home Office. The Home Office now permits no appeal except on grounds not available to you. There is an administrative process whereby you could,challenge the decision but this is unlikely to succeed since the same folk who refused the child will be the folk who decide the review outcome.

You can challenge the decision at the High Court by seeking a judicial review. This is not cheap and will require a lawyer. Budget for about £2500. However, you could instruct a lawyer to draft a letter of submission to be served upon the Home Office stating the grounds why you think the decision to refuse is flawed. This is called a pre - action protocol letter. A decent lawyer will charge about £500. The Home Office must respond to this and have a short time in which to do so. If the the PAP letter is well drafted and the the grounds for refusal are shaky then a senior officer may decide to concede the case and issue the visa. He may not in which case you will need to seek leave to move at the High Court. A judge will consider the case on papers and may conclude there is a case to go before a hearing. He may not in which case you will have to decide to seek a further review with the risk of paying costs for all.

Some lawyers feel an appeal on Human Rights grounds can be made to an immigration judge. This is potentially less expensive and in considering HR he will first review the factual grounds for the refusal. If he thinks the decision is wrong then he will rule accordingly and not consider the HR aspect. He however could find for the Home Office.

Get a lawyer's opinion.

One can only speculate on the degree of civilization, or lack of it, when an organisation can grant a mother's application but not her child. I sometimes think the British are sleepwalking into a Nazi Republic. Teresa May is a barren, shrivelled old hag so I suppose empathy is not an option although it should be noted all three political parties supported the move to deny the right of appeal in these cases. And how many did they lose when there were appeal rights? About 50- 70 %, annually.

Jesus wept..

[Jay Sata]

To be fair to the ECO it is quite normal in Thailand for a child to be brought up by grandparents when the relationship with the father breaks up.

The usual story we have all heard is "Thai man butterfly"

However the Thai father has rights and I would expect the UK to respect those rights.

I suspect in the phone calls to all the parties the truth emerges.

In a lot of cases the mother may be working elsewhere in Thailand and sending money home but that is not the same as having sole responsibility.

[Tony M]

Oh dear.

Sponsoring child settlement is difficult. The criteria for interpreting sole responsibility is narrowly interpreted by the Home Office. The Home Office now permits no appeal except on grounds not available to you. There is an administrative process whereby you could,challenge the decision but this is unlikely to succeed since the same folk who refused the child will be the folk who decide the review outcome.

You can challenge the decision at the High Court by seeking a judicial review. This is not cheap and will require a lawyer. Budget for about £2500. However, you could instruct a lawyer to draft a letter of submission to be served upon the Home Office stating the grounds why you think the decision to refuse is flawed. This is called a pre - action protocol letter. A decent lawyer will charge about £500. The Home Office must respond to this and have a short time in which to do so. If the the PAP letter is well drafted and the the grounds for refusal are shaky then a senior officer may decide to concede the case and issue the visa. He may not in which case you will need to seek leave to move at the High Court. A judge will consider the case on papers and may conclude there is a case to go before a hearing. He may not in which case you will have to decide to seek a further review with the risk of paying costs for all.

Some lawyers feel an appeal on Human Rights grounds can be made to an immigration judge. This is potentially less expensive and in considering HR he will first review the factual grounds for the refusal. If he thinks the decision is wrong then he will rule accordingly and not consider the HR aspect. He however could find for the Home Office.

Get a lawyer's opinion.

One can only speculate on the degree of civilization, or lack of it, when an organisation can grant a mother's application but not her child. I sometimes think the British are sleepwalking into a Nazi Republic. Teresa May is a barren, shrivelled old hag so I suppose empathy is not an option although it should be noted all three political parties supported the move to deny the right of appeal in these cases. And how many did they lose when there were appeal rights? About 50- 70 %, annually.

Jesus wept..

When did this happen ? When was the right of appeal in settlement applications removed ?

As I understand it, the new Immigration Act does remove the right of appeal in settlement visa application refusals, but that right is still in place until the administrative review process takes its place, which it hasn't yet. The Independent Chief Inspector of Immigration, who has been tasked with coming up with a fair admin review system, has one year to come up with proposals. Until then, the right of appeal in settlement visa refusals remains in place. I note that the applicant has been granted a full right of appeal in the refusal notice, and not an appeal limited to human rights grounds only.

I stand to be corrected on this.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Tony M

[Seekingasylum]

Oops! Mea culpa Tony. I mistakenly believed the review system had already been implemented. Still, the thrust of my post, although somewhat premature, is still valid and certainly will be the case in the near term.

[Ch23]

does anyone know how long the appeal process takes and if its woth going down that route rather than applying again? i applied just before they changed the process

saying she lives apart from her daughter is bonkers. she had two spells in her old job 5 + years ago where she was away from home during the week and returned on the weekend. the phone interview asked about this. she told the truth but it appears they think this is a regular occurrence. in fact she spends everyday with her daughter and has done for years.

i guess the problem is proving this. perhaps a letter from her neighbours? the premise of the refusal is based on misunderstood assumptions. effectively they would leave the child without a carer. Grandma is too old and is off to live in hua hin and her ex couldn't give a toss.

beggers belief really

[ThaiVisaExpress]

does anyone know how long the appeal process takes and if its woth going down that route rather than applying again? i applied just before they changed the process

saying she lives apart from her daughter is bonkers. she had two spells in her old job 5 + years ago where she was away from home during the week and returned on the weekend. the phone interview asked about this. she told the truth but it appears they think this is a regular occurrence. in fact she spends everyday with her daughter and has done for years.

i guess the problem is proving this. perhaps a letter from her neighbours? the premise of the refusal is based on misunderstood assumptions. effectively they would leave the child without a carer. Grandma is too old and is off to live in hua hin and her ex couldn't give a toss.

beggers belief really

As others have said, sole responsibility is a minefield. I don't think it is so much the time your wife has or hasn't spent with her daughter that is the problem. It is whether the responsibility for your daughter is sole ( on your wife's part) or shared ( by your wife and her former partner). The ECO considers responsibility to be shared. The fact that the child's father has had a role in her life is a difficult hurdle to overcome in any new application. There is contact between the child and her father, and that is now a matter of record. Most of the rest of the reasons for refusal are mainly flim-flam, and can be overcome with time and evidence.

If you want to appeal, then you have 28 days from the 16th July to do so ( it is actually 28 days from the date you received the refusal notice). The actual appeal process can take up to a year, or maybe more ( sometimes less). If you plan on submitting a new application, rather than appealing, then you will have to overcome the matter of "shared" responsibility, or the next application will be refused for the same reason(s).

Tony M

[Ch23]

Thanks. i thought as much. well fresh application it is then.

i am fairly confident that i can prove that if the mother left there would be no-one to take care of her.

sole responsibility is a matter of judgement though....

[Seekingasylum]

I don't think you have taken on board the need for you to get urgent legal advice before proceeding further. By all means appeal now, you have nothing to lose, but the decision to lodge another application is really one only an experienced Counsel can advise you on. Frankly, you are risking another £1000 and I fear you will simply walk into another refusal on the same grounds relating to sole responsibility. It is not just a matter of judgement to be weighed by a lay person. The issues involved have been shaped by case law and judicial findings. Only an experienced law practitioner can assess the circumstances of the case and the evidence produced by you in meeting the requirements of the rules and determine if the refusal was flawed.

Colin Yeo is a respected barrister in this field. He is a direct access lawyer which means you do not have to engage a solicitor to get his opinion. Go google him and contact his chambers.

[Seekingasylum]

Incidentally, TonyM, as I understand it caseworkers are most likely to be working under policy instructions to knock back child cases if there is one sniff of daddy still being on the scene. Cynical and shallow but the game is all about getting those numbers down. Chap really needs to get a decent brief.