Studying Property Prices at the Local Level

[Hal65]

In the United States we have the MLS, a service that lists all recently sold houses by agents. Real estate agents have access to this info and are a great source of learning what areas are doing good or bad.

Can anyone advise me on the best ways to study the local market? I'm in Bangkok, but also interested in possibly looking at other areas as well.

[rgs2001uk]

No such thing exists here.

To study the local market you need to know whereabouts in Bkk you live and what the going rate is per t/w for your local area, eg Pattanakarn 100k per t/w move out to the suburbs 60k per t/w.

Can you read Thai?

[KittenKong]

Available information about property sales in Thailand is based on imagination, misdirection, dishonesty and lies. Looking for anything more is a waste of time.

The best you will find is asking prices, which in most cases are plucked straight out of thin air.

[NCC1701A]

and the info on real estate websites is incorrect also. maybe going to the land office and looking at records for sale prices.

as soon as you tell the real estate agent how much money you have to spend, like magic, that becomes the price of every property.

[KittenKong]

maybe going to the land office and looking at records for sale prices.

They use their own list of property values that dont necessarily match the price actually paid.

The taxes are supposed to be calculated on the higher of the LO value or the real transaction price, so anything sold at less than the LO price simply wont be recorded correctly and anything sold at more than the LO price is unlikely to have the full price declared anyway.

[Pib]

And even if you got sale price data direct from the Land Office it wouldn't be accurate as sales prices are typically understated to avoid taxes. When changing ownership at the Land Office one price with supporting documentation is shown (like a bank check) which implies the sale occurred at that price, when in fact another check for an additional amount also passed from buyer to seller. Say a house is sold for Bt6M...two checks are paid...say one for Bt4M and another for Bt2M but the Bt4M check is used/identified as the sales price for tax purposes. Done all the time.

[worgeordie]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,

AND they always think its worth too much.

regards worgeordie

[Pib]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,

AND they always think its worth too much.

regards worgeordie

Correct, when he owner is trying to make a sale to a potential buyer...however, when going to the Land Office to make the sale official the reported sale price drops way down to avoid the associated taxes.

[KittenKong]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

[JesseFrank]

Thailand is a society based on lies, and so is their real estate market.

I bought my 1rai plot in 2009 for 945.000 Baht. Since that time I know of only 1 plot been sold in the area, and that was close after I purchased.

Recently I had a buyer but he wanted to purchase an additional 2 rai of adjacent land. Plenty of available land but all owners wanted 3 million/rai. Today a local " middle man " came to my house and told me that one of the plots, which I had rejected already as being insane priced, was now available at 4 million/rai.

When I asked him what justified the price and what was recently sold in this area he pointed to the plot that was sold shortly after me and said it was at that time sold at 2 million/rai.

The foreign NGO that is building a monastery on the land has it listed on their website as they paid 3.5 million for the 4.2 Rai plot

But probably the owner has made some face by telling everyone that he made almost 10 million out of the sale, and so all the land is now priced at unsellable prices.

Edited July 20, 2014 by JesseFrank

[SDM0712]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Completely right here and everywhere.

You can gauge an average baseline value from the asking prices, which although will all be intentionally high to allow for offers, it will tell you if something is way out of line with the norm. There's lots of property around, offer low and see what happens, they can only say no.

SDM

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Not true,

Most owners won't sell below what they think it's worth.

[rgs2001uk]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Not true,

Most owners won't sell below what they think it's worth.

Correct, that why these overpriced pieces of crap never sell.

House up the road from me, on the market for 3 years, owner wanted 3.2 million (way overpriced, hence no buyers), owner has just increaded the asking price to 4 million.

Dream on.

[KittenKong]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Not true,

Most owners won't sell below what they think it's worth.

But if it doesnt sell then it isn't worth it.

Everything is only worth what it actually sells for. No more, no less. Applies equally to houses, cars, apples, oranges, used newspapers, you name it. Fanciful price tags mean nothing at all.

[Steiner]

and the info on real estate websites is incorrect also. maybe going to the land office and looking at records for sale prices.

as soon as you tell the real estate agent how much money you have to spend, like magic, that becomes the price of every property.

How would that work when 90% of the transactions at the land office are declared falsely low for some under the table financial grease.

[Steiner]

Hipflat http://www.hipflat.co.th/en will give you some of the info you are looking for. Their "automated system collects and processes offers from the agents, owners, online classified and forums." The site will tell you for example if prices are rising or falling for a particular condo building and will list those for rent and for sale. It gives average price per square metre. It also provides a graph of trends of sale prices over the last few years. It's probably the closest you will get to what you are looking for.

This might be a better link to hipflat for bangkok http://www.hipflat.co.th/en/bangkok/condo

"Automated system" what are you talking about?

It is a property portal not the Starship Enterprise!

Hipflat is a paid service and is inaccurate as it takes an average of the prices asked for by the paid members.

Ask a knowledgeable agent, there are some good western owned and run companies out there.

[SDM0712]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Not true,

Most owners won't sell below what they think it's worth.

Then they won't sell.

This is a conversation I have on almost a daily basis. Over here a seller usually assess their value as land cost, plus construction cost and adjusted for what the other houses/apartments in the area are on the market for.

There is nothing wrong with using this as a way to set a starting or asking price, but that's all. In any market, rising, falling it doesn't matter, if a property doesn't sell it is because it is too expensive.

Houses by airports sell, by highways sell, in flood areas sell, near graveyards sell, in terrible order sell, they all have their price.

SDM

Edited July 23, 2014 by SDM0712

[Acharn]

Here a property is worth what an owner thinks it worth,...

Actually it's worth what someone will pay for it. What the owner thinks is irrelevant.

Not true,

Most owners won't sell below what they think it's worth.

True dat. But what they think it's worth is not what it's really worth. If they can't sell it, it's worth whatever it produces every year. I remember for years before and after 1997 driving past Jomtien/Pattaya and seeing a "aghost mall" not far from the highway. It was in a location where it was absolutely insane to build a mall, but I was told the owner wouldn't sell to a developer because no one would meet his price and he couldn't afford to continue building. Guess he was so rich he didn't really need the cash, but he just wouldn't sell. Anyway, the word "worth" is as ambiguous as the word "value." Worth to whom? Value in whose eyes?

[khunPer]

Property prices in Thailand might be like a lottery coupon – you can for example find two almost identical land plots close to each other, but priced like night and day. Furthermore price some times goes up, if a foreigner (farang) is buying – and even showing interest for a plot may raise the price next day.

Some Thais have an idea what they want, not what their property is worth at market price, and won’t sell below, rather not sell and just keep. Others may be in need of instant cash and you can make a good deal here-and-now.

A property, land or land+house or condo, is normally considered worth what the buyer will pay, but that does not always seem like the Thai way to do it…

Furthermore, some land prices may be valued way too low at the Land Office. I don’t know if that is still the practice, but some years ago, at the more attractive tourist destinations, a land plot could be sold for ten times (or more) its Land Office value – and that then times "overprice" might even be a good price for the buyer – only the Land Office value were the official price of which transfer fee and taxes were paid, the remaining part were paid in cash. The practice used were, that for example a property owned by a company and book kept with Land Office price, only company profit tax were paid based on the Land Office price, the balance often transferred to an offshore account. Other times the company owing the land was sold, with some or the majority of the payment transferred offshore, so no transfer had to be made. Land Office practise may vary from province to province; up Isaan for example a Land Office may wish to know the true sales price and documentation provided.

“The best way to study the local market” may in my opinion be, that when you see something of interest and find the price attractive, then you have your lawyer checking everything (due diligence), and if all is Okay then you buy.

[yellow1red1]

No such thing exists here.

To study the local market you need to know whereabouts in Bkk you live and what the going rate is per t/w for your local area, eg Pattanakarn 100k per t/w move out to the suburbs 60k per t/w.

Can you read Thai?

somebody reading this Thread might think foreigners are allowed to buy land in Thailand.

[djhotsox]

Any property is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay you for it.

I am not certain about land and houses but for a foreigner wishing to buy a condo:

You can assess the value by finding out what similar properties have sold next to, or near to it and estimate the value based strictly on area and then +/- "x" baht in value for better location, higher floor, better view, what have you.

The taxes and fees paid on transfer are based on the higher of the government appraised value (I think appraised every 4 years but not certain) or actual selling price. (So possibility of it being recorded as selling for less than it actually did to mitigate taxes owed upon sale but that would be an under the table deal between buyer and seller.)

The assessed value will be on record at the Land Registry Office, or in the case of a condominium, the juristic office or management office of the particular condo building will have a relatively accurate idea of what each price is, the assessed value and the market value. I think easiest to ask them what units have sold recently and at what price?

[Pinot]

There is no financial reason for a farang to buy property in LOS. It's always a bad idea. Plenty to rent.

[KittenKong]

You can assess the value by finding out what similar properties have sold next to, or near to it and estimate the value based strictly on area and then +/- "x" baht in value for better location, higher floor, better view, what have you.

.....the juristic office or management office of the particular condo building will have a relatively accurate idea of what each price is, the assessed value and the market value. I think easiest to ask them what units have sold recently and at what price?

These are still going to be asking prices. The likelihood of any third party knowing the real selling price is close to zero, unless they actually acted as real estate agent or lawyer for the transaction.

[KittenKong]

There is no financial reason for a farang to buy property in LOS. It's always a bad idea.

That depends. I have seen some "fire sales" that were real bargains and no one could have failed to show a profit by buying them and putting them immediately on the market again, even allowing for two lots of agent's fees and taxes. Anyone buying them to live in or rent out would have been even better off.

Notably one I saw in Jomtien that was being advertised at 75% of the usual asking price and which finally sold for under 50% of that common asking price. The owner was dying and desperate to leave the country, and some (probably very unpleasant) person took advantage of that.

For the average farang over the age of 50 who doesnt have any Thai family to think about I agree that buying is probably a bad idea.

[wolfmanjack]

and the info on real estate websites is incorrect also. maybe going to the land office and looking at records for sale prices.

as soon as you tell the real estate agent how much money you have to spend, like magic, that becomes the price of every property.

How would that work when 90% of the transactions at the land office are declared falsely low for some under the table financial grease.

The land office did not ask us what we sold our land for or what we bought the new land for. They had their valuation and that is what we paid taxes on.