Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

[thaibeachlovers]

Enough with the antisemitic suggestions that the situation in modern Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany! When Jews did put up some resistance in the Warsaw ghetto their goal was survival. Their goal was not to drive all the non-Jews out of Poland and/or murder them all. You people are so twisted with hatred against Jews you can't see reality. Where are the death camps in Israel for Arabs, a democratic nation with 20 percent Arab citizens that mostly are HAPPY to be Israelis? Are the Israelis murdering gays? Nope, that's the Palestinians doing that.  Where are the transports from Gaza to the death camps? If Israel had wanted to exterminate the Palestinians in Gaza (and the west bank) they could have easily done so long ago. They could do so today. But they haven't and they won't and you bloody well know that. No. Israelis are not the same as Nazis. Only antisemites push that hateful lie. All you do with pushing this lie is to broadcast your hatred of Jews. If you don't want to be called out for this, stop the lies. 

 

You know, there is no problem with criticizing Israeli using rational arguments. There is plenty to criticize. Almost all rational people see faults on BOTH SIDE, as do I. But most of you Israel demonizers posting here just can't help yourselves but to inject multiple antisemitic themes again, and again, and again. Can't you do better?

I see I must have pushed your button as you went on a real diatribe. Where have I ever said anything that indicates I'm an anti semite, which would mean I hate both Jews and Arabs?

Again, being anti ZIONIST is not anti JEW.

 

<You people are so twisted with hatred against Jews you can't see reality>

Again, where is the written proof that I hate Jews? Where have I equated israelis with Nazis? I have no problem with Jews that are not murdering children and then coming up with pathetic excuses to try and justify it. At least they should have the balls to admit that they just want to terrorise the Gazans into submission at whatever cost, and stop trying to excuse the inexcusable. I never heard Assad trying to blame the rebels of hiding behind civilians while he is killing them.

Saying that ZIONISTS commit war crimes and murder children is not anti Semitic. Many JEWS also rail against what the Zionists are doing- are they anti Semitic?

 

<If Israel had wanted to exterminate the Palestinians in Gaza (and the west bank) they could have easily done so long ago>

If you really believe that America ( and the world ) would have accepted that, then there is no point in even responding to you.

[Jingthing]

I just don't see why people taking the anti-Israel side see the need to use classic anti-semitic rhetoric, again and again, and yes we have seen this a lot on Thaivisa. Surely there are strong enough arguments that can be made without going so low. 

 

As far as "picking sides" I like the approach in this article ...

 

 

So you really don't have to choose between being "pro-Israel" or "pro-Palestine." If you support secularism, democracy, and a two-state solution -- and you oppose Hamas, settlement expansion, and the occupation -- you can be both.

If they keep asking you to pick a side after all of that, tell them you're going with hummus.

 

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

Enough with the antisemitic suggestions that the situation in modern Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany! When Jews did put up some resistance in the Warsaw ghetto their goal was survival. Their goal was not to drive all the non-Jews out of Poland. 

Enough of suggesting that anyone that considers israel is commiting crimes is anti semitic- classic diversionary technique. As both the Jews and the Arabs are semitic, how am I anti semitic? Being anti Zionist is not the same thing as being anti semitic- but you know that, don't you?

My question was whether the Gazans should behave like the Jews at Babi Yar, or those in the Ghetto, not saying they wanted to drive non Jews out of Poland. You haven't answered my question.

Do you consider that the Gazans should accept oppression, or fight back?

By what you seem to be saying, the early Americans should have accepted British rule and not rebelled, in which case you'd be a British subject.

 

Again, this is ridiculous. Antisemitism refers only to Jews. Consult a DICTIONARY. There is nothing else to discuss on that.

 

People in Gaza have strong legit grievances and yes that's putting it mildly, against Israel and against Hamas. I won't presume to decide their political decisions in future. But I do know this ... their political leadership that they have "chosen" is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and is deeply antisemitic. Israel can't negotiate with such leadership. No nation would so don't demonize Israel for behaving like any normal nation would in face of such a threat. So if the Gazans want endless war, they are going to get it. 

BTW, I have no obligation to answer any or all of your baiting questions in the way that you demand. I don't accept your antisemitic suggestion of any suggestion of EQUIVALENCE between modern Israel and the Nazis, so again don't bother trying that again. Not playing.

 

I did consult a dictionary, several- google "semites definition". Refers to both Jews and Arabs.

[Ulysses G.]

Where have I ever said anything that indicates I'm an anti semite, which would mean I hate both Jews and Arabs?

No it wouldn't. "Semitic" refers to anyone who speaks a Semitic language - it has nothing to do with heredity - but an "anti-Semite" ONLY refers to Jew Haters.

an·ti-Sem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people

Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
an·tiSe·mit·ic adjective
an·tiSem·ite noun Edited August 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

It seems some people think the Jews "stole" the word antisemite like the Jews "stole" hummus!

A definition is a definition.

DEAL WITH IT!

I suppose to stop this silliness posters here could just say something like "Jew hater" instead, but really that's not very polite, is it?

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

 

Where have I ever said anything that indicates I'm an anti semite, which would mean I hate both Jews and Arabs?

No it wouldn't. "Semitic" refers to anyone who speaks a Semitic language - it has nothing to do with heredity - but an "anti-Semite" ONLY refers to Jew Haters.

an·ti-Sem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people

Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
an·tiSe·mit·ic adjective
an·tiSem·ite noun

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

Anyway, I and no one I have read on here says they hate JEWS. I'm sure they'd be having a posting holiday- permanently- if they said that.

[thaibeachlovers]

It seems some people think the Jews "stole" the word antisemite like the Jews "stole" hummus!

A definition is a definition.

DEAL WITH IT!

 

No, more like when homosexuals "stole" gay to refer to them. It might have been appropriated by homosexuals, but it means something else entirely.

[Jingthing]

Dude, they didn't have to say it that explicitly. Again, it might be useful to learn the ways in which "Jew hating" rhetoric is commonly expressed. 

[Jingthing]

 

It seems some people think the Jews "stole" the word antisemite like the Jews "stole" hummus!

A definition is a definition.

DEAL WITH IT!

 

No, more like when homosexuals "stole" gay to refer to them. It might have been appropriated by homosexuals, but it means something else entirely.

 

Irrelevant.

[up-country_sinclair]

Look at the streets in the major capitols of the world and you'll see normal, everyday people protesting and saying that Israel's murderous actions are not acceptable.There is nothing antisemitic about comparing the Israeli government to previous tyrannical regimes, even  though the default response for Israeli apologists is "that's antisemitic" when the previous comment has absolutely nothing to do with Jews or Judaism.   It's nothing more than an attempt to stifle free speech and open debate about the actions of the Israeli government.  It was effective for many years, but people are better informed now. 

Edited August 2, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

Actually, there is huge spike in Jew hating expression in the world. Not all anti-Israel sentiment is Jew hatred of course, but MUCH of it is. Also, much of the anti-Israel expression expressed on this very board reveals very obvious Jew hatred as well. Can arguments against Israel be made without resorting to that? Is it that hard?

[up-country_sinclair]

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Oh,wait.  Somebody did. 

[Jingthing]

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Oh,wait.  Somebody did. 

 

You couldn't make up the absurdity of people acting like they don't know the ACTUAL definition of antisemitism which all educated people know full well refers only to Jews. But maybe to humor y'all, you'd prefer Jew hatred?

[DPIZZA]

 

In 1971 I travelled as a student through Israel and the West bank: an open border was between the Kingdom of Siam and the Kingdom of Lanna: students from all the world, inclusive Palestines: all young persons of the World.
The years later terrorist attacks, rockets, grenades from the Palestines towards the Israëli's In their manifest ( constitution): Israel must be wiped away, the jews driven into the see.
I wonder what would have been the attitude of the USA if Mexico, would behave like that, or on daily bases rockets were lunched from Laos to Nong Kai.
Even the Israelis do their utmost to protect also Palestinian civilians see the statement of a British general at the UN see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY&feature=youtube_gdata_player -, sorry, but 100% protection is impossible, especially when rockets are stored in schools, hospitals etc, see UNWRA school even. And you think, this is the only case ? ?
All recourses in Gaza are used for the military and NOT for schools, water supply, electricity etc as.. why should they, US and EU taxpayers money supports that already since 1948

Why do people bring up that pathetic excuse about what would the US do if Mexico or Canada was rocketing them? Fact is, the US hasn't occupied Mexico or Canada since 1948 and driven most of the population into exile. The Canadian and Mexican population aren't mainly refugees in crowded camps. They have no reason to rocket the US.

The reason for the rockets is the illegal occupation and the collective punishment of people that weren't even born in 1948.

Burning israeli flags on the streets of European cities and applauding crowds show that while israel might win the war, it is losing the battle for public support throughout the world.

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

<see the statement of a British general at the UN >
Who would believe any western establishment figure, ESPECIALLY at the UN? They are all pro israeli.

 

Its not pathetic and its not an excuse!

America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...

 

But thats beside the point:

The point is that people trying to explain to you the ridiculous situation Israel finds itself.

 

Israel didnt cause the refugees problem, on the contrary, it is one of the few countries who helped to solve it.

If Israel wanted to expel all non Jewish from Israel, how can you explain that 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab, Druze, Cherks, Bahais, Samaritans, Beduin esc...

Did you even heard of those minorities? i bet you havent got the slightest clue...

They enjoy full rights, serve in Israeli Army, and enjoy social services, while minorities in Egypt, Gaza, Syria and in many other Muslim countries are almost extinct!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&feature=channel_video_title

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1THQ94yF1Ng&NR=1

 

 

 

If the reason for rocket is illegal occupation, how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements, but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?

 

The Jews were never popular to say the least with you Europeans...Maybe they wont win the popularity contest, but they sure going to win the survival contest, and thats much more then what they could do when they didnt had a country, and you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...

Can you remind me BTW how many buses bombing, rockets firing, kidnappings, raping, murdering did the Jews did towards the Germans?

 

So dont you tell me the Jews doing to the Pali what the Nazis did to them!

[DPIZZA]

 

 

The people of Gaza and The West Bank have no independence. Every aspect of their daily lives is controlled by Israel.

That is their own fault - as usual. Israel made a genuine effort to help them in the beginning, but the Palestinians destroyed the ability to grow their own food and build their own economy and turned the place into a war zone.

It was less than 10 years ago that worldwide television showed the Israeli army pulling die-hard settlers off synagogue roofs in Gaza as Israel uprooted its settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians. There was not a soldier, not a settler, not a single Israeli left in Gaza. And there was no blockade. On the contrary. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed. To help the Gaza economy, Israel gave the Palestinians its 3,000 greenhouses that had produced fruit and flowers for export. It opened border crossings and encouraged commerce. The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. No one seems to remember that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-moral-clarity-in-gaza/2014/07/17/0adabe0c-0de4-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

 

Keep spouting the propaganda.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/middleeast/15mideast.html?pagewanted=all

Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain - creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as "a living business," the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.

Lets remember WHY Gaza was evacuated by the israelis and it wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

Oh, the poor Gazans...

from "roughly" 1,000 acres of agricultural land, only 500 were given free to the Gazans? Those evil Israelis...

how can they JUST GIVE HALF of what they built and develop with their own time, effort and finance, to those Jew loving Gazans?!?!?

 

No wonder they shoot rockets at them, kidnapping, and terrorizing the world...

 

Give me such a "failing business" of 500 acres, i will not shoot rockets at you...

 

Gaza was evacuated unilaterally, by Ariel Sharon, who they called a murderer, to try another solution than the military one, to give them a chance to build their future without Israel, and guess how that worked out? 

[Ulysses G.]

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 
You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

 

Yeah, The dictionary.

 

 

an·ti–Sem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
— an·ti–Se·mit·ic adjective
— an·ti–Sem·ite noun

[Jingthing]

It shows how hopeless this "debate" is when people can't even accept an established DEFINITION.

[thaibeachlovers]

In 1971 I travelled as a student through Israel and the West bank: an open border was between the Kingdom of Siam and the Kingdom of Lanna: students from all the world, inclusive Palestines: all young persons of the World.
The years later terrorist attacks, rockets, grenades from the Palestines towards the Israëli's In their manifest ( constitution): Israel must be wiped away, the jews driven into the see.
I wonder what would have been the attitude of the USA if Mexico, would behave like that, or on daily bases rockets were lunched from Laos to Nong Kai.
Even the Israelis do their utmost to protect also Palestinian civilians see the statement of a British general at the UN see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY&feature=youtube_gdata_player -, sorry, but 100% protection is impossible, especially when rockets are stored in schools, hospitals etc, see UNWRA school even. And you think, this is the only case ? ?
All recourses in Gaza are used for the military and NOT for schools, water supply, electricity etc as.. why should they, US and EU taxpayers money supports that already since 1948

Why do people bring up that pathetic excuse about what would the US do if Mexico or Canada was rocketing them? Fact is, the US hasn't occupied Mexico or Canada since 1948 and driven most of the population into exile. The Canadian and Mexican population aren't mainly refugees in crowded camps. They have no reason to rocket the US.

The reason for the rockets is the illegal occupation and the collective punishment of people that weren't even born in 1948.

Burning israeli flags on the streets of European cities and applauding crowds show that while israel might win the war, it is losing the battle for public support throughout the world.

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

<see the statement of a British general at the UN >
Who would believe any western establishment figure, ESPECIALLY at the UN? They are all pro israeli.

Its not pathetic and its not an excuse!
America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...
 
But thats beside the point:
The point is that people trying to explain to you the ridiculous situation Israel finds itself.
 
Israel didnt cause the refugees problem, on the contrary, it is one of the few countries who helped to solve it.
If Israel wanted to expel all non Jewish from Israel, how can you explain that 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab, Druze, Cherks, Bahais, Samaritans, Beduin esc...
Did you even heard of those minorities? i bet you havent got the slightest clue...
They enjoy full rights, serve in Israeli Army, and enjoy social services, while minorities in Egypt, Gaza, Syria and in many other Muslim countries are almost extinct!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&feature=channel_video_title
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1THQ94yF1Ng&NR=1
 
 
 
If the reason for rocket is illegal occupation, how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements, but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?
 
The Jews were never popular to say the least with you Europeans...Maybe they wont win the popularity contest, but they sure going to win the survival contest, and thats much more then what they could do when they didnt had a country, and you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...
Can you remind me BTW how many buses bombing, rockets firing, kidnappings, raping, murdering did the Jews did towards the Germans?
 
So dont you tell me the Jews doing to the Pali what the Nazis did to them!

<how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements>
Erm. When israel was forced to evacuate Gaza by Gazan resistance, they had to dismantle all the israeli settlements when they left. You do know that israel used to occupy Gaza, don't you?


<but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?>
You do realise that the west bank is still occupied by israel, don't you? It would be very difficult to smuggle in rockets, let alone fire them. There are no smuggling tunnels to Egypt or Jordan.

<you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...>
I didn't realise that Ireland, Britain, Holland, Spain, Occupied France, Belgium etc were involved in exterminating anyone during WW2.

<America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...>
You forgot about the Phillipines, American Samoa and Hawaii.
All colonial powers "took over" other lands. It was what they did back then. I don't see the relevance to today.

[uptheos]

 

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 
You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

 

Yeah, The dictionary.

 

 

an·ti–Sem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
— an·ti–Se·mit·ic adjective
— an·ti–Sem·ite noun

 

 

It's a well known fact, that people who don't know the actual definition of Anti-Semitism are of low intelligence and have been brought up from childhood to use other terms such as Jew Hater, so it's difficult for them to understand. Of course there are very intelligent people who do know its meaning and fully endorse Anti-Semtism. It is often these intelligent Anti-Semites who urge their minions on, encouraging them to use other derogatory terms, more in line with their intellect.

[Jay Sata]

Speaking on the. BBC today ex Lib Dem leader Paddy Ashdown has called Israel's attacks on Gaza "foolish" and "disproportionate".

[Jingthing]

 

 

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 
You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

 

Yeah, The dictionary.

 

 

an·ti–Sem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
— an·ti–Se·mit·ic adjective
— an·ti–Sem·ite noun

 

 

It's a well known fact, that people who don't know the actual definition of Anti-Semitism are of low intelligence and have been brought up from childhood to use other terms such as Jew Hater, so it's difficult for them to understand. Of course there are very intelligent people who do know its meaning and fully endorse Anti-Semtism. It is often these intelligent Anti-Semites who urge their minions on, encouraging them to use other derogatory terms, more in line with their intellect.

 

I see this a different way.

People who know that many of their arguments are linked to antisemitism do not wish to be called out for that.

So when they are called out, they deflect that by ACTING like they don't know the meaning of the word.

Which of course they do.

So you can't win if you want to call them out. Saying Jew hatred is a much stronger wording and of course not at all POLITE. I think they figure if we can be intimidated against calling out antisemitism by having their silly diversion about the WORD being raised all the time, that nothing will be said. Because after the 100th time it really does get very tedious to keep telling people to read a dictionary, when you know full well they are just feigning ignorance in the first place. So I am wondering if just saying Jew hatred at least on this forum solves the issue. Nobody can act like they don't know what that means so the dictionary thingie at least goes away. 

Yes it is a cave in to the silly game being played ... but not sure of a better idea.

Because you can't really FULLY talk about what is happening to today in the reaction to Israel's actions and in the core ideology of HAMAS without being able to refer to ... Jew hatred. 
 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Of course there are very intelligent people who do know its meaning and fully endorse Anti-Semtism. It is often these intelligent Anti-Semites who urge their minions on, encouraging them to use other derogatory terms, more in line with their intellect.

They often substitute the word "Zionist" for "Jew" and then they can say it all they want, even though they think of it as the same thing.

[thaibeachlovers]

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 
You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

Yeah, The dictionary.
 
 
an·tiSem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
an·tiSe·mit·ic adjective
an·tiSem·ite noun

I guess you can find anything you want to on the internet


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

While the term anti-Semitism has its roots in prejudice against the so-called Semitic peoples the Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans and Jews of the Levant over the course of the 20th century it came to refer exclusively to anti-Jewish attitudes and actions, which have taken a number of forms along a spectrum that ranges from discourses that paint Jews as embodying particular stereotypical characteristics to genocide. Less commonly, it can also mean prejudice against speakers of Semitic languages or adherents of Abrahamic religions.[1] The most specific and literal definition would be any bias against the biblical character of Shem specifically.

[Jingthing]

Actually, I have done some research about this and I have this proposal.

 

There is a movement to replace antisemitism with the word

 

JUDEOPHOBIA.

 

For the purposes of discussion on this forum, it does solve this repeated problem.

 

The meaning clear ... about hatred of Jews only.  Yes there is that phobia root but people understand with the words Islamophobia and homophobia that it is beyond fear, also HATRED.

 

Antisemitism word ... the people acting like they don't know the meaning will never end!

 

Jew hater ... it's too strong for general use I think.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[DPIZZA]

 

 

Haaretz does have a small readership but it is popular with an important liberal elite demographic in Israel. I think it's a positive thing that at least some people in Israel are thinking critically about their society. All nations always have room for self examination and improvement. Israel is certainly no different. It's obvious that without the constant threats Israel has been under since it's founding that it would be a much different society, and much more politically left. But that's not how it turned out which given their neighborhood, is entirely understandable. 

 

Considering their tragic history and constantly being under threat by those around, yes, it is understandable and I feel for the Israeli people as much as I do the Palestinians. But both desperately need to find the proverbial olive branch, otherwise this just keeps on coming around with consequences more and more devastating each time.

 

It was a terrible shame when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated.

 

You are correct. I have little respect for "bliar" Tony Blair, but at least he broke out of the "IRA bad" mindset of the English establishment and talked to the IRA as equals, stopping a centuries old conflict.

Unless israel wishes to be still fighting the Palestinians in 600 years time, they need a "Tony Blair" of their own.

While israel will probably always be militarily stronger ( as Britain was over the IRA ) they will never "win" the war as long as young men are prepared to die to oppose them ( as were the IRA ). Likewise the Vietminh overcame the French and North Vietnam overcame the US ( the most powerful military in the world ). Military strength alone cannot win a war, peace has to be negotiated ( unless exterminating the enemy is an option, and that would, I hope, not be an option in the Gaza conflict ).

 

It is worth remembering ( and the politicians know this ) that for every non combatant Palestinian killed, there will be many young men that seek to kill israelis in the future. The israelis can kill 10,000 now, but a million will become their enemy, and they aren't all in Gaza. I can forsee israelis being at risk anywhere in the world, eg it would be a foolhardy israeli that were to walk through Little Arabia in Pattaya right now openly advertising himself as israeli.

 

Yes, i agree with you that Israelis shouldnt go around parading their nationality, not because of shame, but because of danger to their lives from "peace loving Arabs"...

But i ask you, did you ever heard of any Arab or Muslim being attacked by Jewish communities around the world?

Did you ever saw Jews rioting and burning Palestinian flags?

Why do you think it is so?

Why should a caricature of Muhamad be a reason for Muslims to kill and riot and pillage?

Why you can accept any stupid excuse (because thats what they are) for violence from Arabs?

Is it out of fear, or is it out of naivety?

 

Just to let you know, when you going abroad, you check the weather in destination, but Israelis check if there are terror warnings...

[thaibeachlovers]

You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

Yeah, The dictionary.
 
 
an·tiSem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
an·tiSe·mit·ic adjective
an·tiSem·ite noun

 
It's a well known fact, that people who don't know the actual definition of Anti-Semitism are of low intelligence and have been brought up from childhood to use other terms such as Jew Hater, so it's difficult for them to understand. Of course there are very intelligent people who do know its meaning and fully endorse Anti-Semtism. It is often these intelligent Anti-Semites who urge their minions on, encouraging them to use other derogatory terms, more in line with their intellect.

I see this a different way.
People who know that many of their arguments are linked to antisemitism do not wish to be called out for that.
So when they are called out, they deflect that by ACTING like they don't know the meaning of the word.
Which of course they do.
So you can't win if you want to call them out. Saying Jew hatred is a much stronger wording and of course not at all POLITE. I think they figure if we can be intimidated against calling out antisemitism by having their silly diversion about the WORD being raised all the time, that nothing will be said. Because after the 100th time it really does get very tedious to keep telling people to read a dictionary, when you know full well they are just feigning ignorance in the first place. So I am wondering if just saying Jew hatred at least on this forum solves the issue. Nobody can act like they don't know what that means so the dictionary thingie at least goes away. 
Yes it is a cave in to the silly game being played ... but not sure of a better idea.
Because you can't really FULLY talk about what is happening to today in the reaction to Israel's actions and in the core ideology of HAMAS without being able to refer to ... Jew hatred.

Rubbish.
If you think I and others hate Jews, rather than disaprove of the actions of israel ( Zionists ), say so, and if you can't prove that, you'll be guilty of lying.

This is all getting a bit personal, and I am not going to get suspended for it, so that's it for me.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

 

So both Arabs and Jews are Semites, but being "anti" Semitic refers only to Jews, LOL.

 

 
You couldn't make it up.
 
Oh,wait.  Somebody did.

 

Yeah, The dictionary.
 
 
an·tiSem·i·tism noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\

: hatred of Jewish people



Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
an·tiSe·mit·ic adjective
an·tiSem·ite noun

 

I guess you can find anything you want to on the internet


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

While the term anti-Semitism has its roots in prejudice against the so-called Semitic peoples the Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans and Jews of the Levant over the course of the 20th century it came to refer exclusively to anti-Jewish attitudes and actions, which have taken a number of forms along a spectrum that ranges from discourses that paint Jews as embodying particular stereotypical characteristics to genocide. Less commonly, it can also mean prejudice against speakers of Semitic languages or adherents of Abrahamic religions.[1] The most specific and literal definition would be any bias against the biblical character of Shem specifically.

 

Indeed. From your source:

 

"Over the course of the 20th century it came to refer exclusively to anti-Jewish attitudes and actions"


I like the entry lower on the page too:

Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, however, some anti-Semites use anti-Zionism as a kind of cover and entry-level recruiting tool. In addition, most anti-Semites see Zionism not as a modern movement to establish a Jewish state in Palestine, but as some kind of ancient, all-encompassing world conspiracy — in their language, the term "Zionism" means more or less the same as The Jews.™ It's embarrassing for advocates of the Palestinian cause (which, considering the broad belief for a two-state solution in Israel, means a lot of Jews).

[Jingthing]

I am speaking about rhetoric. Not persons. Don't confuse the two. If someone using Judeophobic rhetoric, that's something that can be seen objectively. What is in their soul isn't particularly relevant in the context of a discussion forum. 

 

Yes we have indeed seen LOADS of Judeophobic rhetoric on this forum in recent days.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[DPIZZA]

 

 

 

In 1971 I travelled as a student through Israel and the West bank: an open border was between the Kingdom of Siam and the Kingdom of Lanna: students from all the world, inclusive Palestines: all young persons of the World.
The years later terrorist attacks, rockets, grenades from the Palestines towards the Israëli's In their manifest ( constitution): Israel must be wiped away, the jews driven into the see.
I wonder what would have been the attitude of the USA if Mexico, would behave like that, or on daily bases rockets were lunched from Laos to Nong Kai.
Even the Israelis do their utmost to protect also Palestinian civilians see the statement of a British general at the UN see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmFc1R8evY&feature=youtube_gdata_player -, sorry, but 100% protection is impossible, especially when rockets are stored in schools, hospitals etc, see UNWRA school even. And you think, this is the only case ? ?
All recourses in Gaza are used for the military and NOT for schools, water supply, electricity etc as.. why should they, US and EU taxpayers money supports that already since 1948

Why do people bring up that pathetic excuse about what would the US do if Mexico or Canada was rocketing them? Fact is, the US hasn't occupied Mexico or Canada since 1948 and driven most of the population into exile. The Canadian and Mexican population aren't mainly refugees in crowded camps. They have no reason to rocket the US.

The reason for the rockets is the illegal occupation and the collective punishment of people that weren't even born in 1948.

Burning israeli flags on the streets of European cities and applauding crowds show that while israel might win the war, it is losing the battle for public support throughout the world.

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

<see the statement of a British general at the UN >
Who would believe any western establishment figure, ESPECIALLY at the UN? They are all pro israeli.

 

 

So you morally justify the shoot of Hamas on innocent Israeli population?
What Illegal occupation?

Last time I checked, the Gazans got their land back on 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

As for the UN, it has been consistently pro Palestinian since the establishment of the state of Israel on 1948.

But don't let the facts get in your way.
 

 

The illegal occupation of the west bank. Just because a Palestinian lives in Gaza, does not mean that he doesn't care about Palestinians in the west bank. A Palestinian is a Palestinian whether he lives in Gaza, in the west bank, in London, in New York or next door to you.

 

I don't support anyone trying to kill anyone else, and I even agree that the israelis should respond to rocket fire with lethal force. However, I understand WHY the Palestinians are trying to kill israelis. What I don't support is the excessive use of israeli military power to indiscriminatly attack residential areas of Gaza.

As a missile from a drone can be guided with pinpoint accuracy to a target, they could be used to attack rocket launch sites. The israelis know exactly where the rockets are being launched, and drones over Gaza could respond in seconds. Instead, the israelis are using artillery shells and bombs with huge explosive power that inevitably cause civilian casualties. A shell is unguided and is not completely accurate.

 

The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

If the Gazans shoot rockets on Israel because of occupation in West Bank, why doesnt the "west bankers" shoot rockets as well? are they inept?

Also if the shooting of rocket is as result of "occupation" as you define it, you would expect that places with no occupation will have less rocket firing, then place with it!

BUT we see exactly the opposite phenomenon! West bank were there are many Israeli settlements doesnt shoot rockets, wheres in Gaza, where there are NO SETTLEMENTS WHAT SO EVER, shoots thousands of rockets!

[DPIZZA]

 

 

 

Where are the roads and rail, the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere. Instead, they built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide their weapons and, when the going gets tough, their military commanders. They spent millions importing and producing rockets, launchers, mortars, small arms, even drones. They deliberately placed them in schools, hospitals, mosques and private homes to better expose their own civilians. 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-moral-clarity-in-gaza/2014/07/17/0adabe0c-0de4-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

How exactly are they supposed to build anything let alone a railway! It just goes to show how out of touch that guy is with the reality of daily life in Gaza.
The are denied construction materials and equipment plus most of the day to day item we take for granted.

The damage done by the Israeli army can not be repaired without cement which is an item banned by Netanyahu and his cronies.

Nothing is allowed to enter or leave the area without Israel's approval.

 

 

The blockade was not in place to begin with, and it was not brought about out of context, the way some try to present.

 

Obviously Hamas had enough building materials to build an impressive array of underground tunnels and facilities, and the last time I checked rockets were made of metal. Building materials were not always banned, and were declared as dual use materials only at a latter stage. A more thorough ban came into place as things got out of hand.

 

To make things a bit clearer - Israel still supplies the Gaza Strip (yes, even while the fighting is going on) with electricity, water and fuel, not to mention other goods being transported to the Gaza Strip through border passes regularly. One of the main issues was Hamas refusal to accept Israeli inspections of shipments for contraband and dual use materials prior to their delivery to the Gaza Strip. Attempts to find a solution which will satisfy both sides on this have met with failure. For obvious security reasons, Israel will not allow free flow of goods, as long as Hamas keeps upholding armed struggle as the way to go. There is some talk about trying to set up an international mechanism to sort this, but so far no agreements and enough guarantees to make this a viable solution.

 

Israel is also a bit more open minded for PA officials taking part in those arrangements, but with the Hamas/PA split on, this is still not acceptable for the Hamas.

 

Lastly, Egypt maintains pretty much the same blockade from its own side of the border. A hard point to address without poking a hole in blaming Israel only, but still...

 

The consequence of stopping electricity, fuel, food and water into Gaza would inevitably be either the extermination of all people in Gaza, or the total evacuation of the strip. To date, even the israelis would not dare to commit such a heinous crime.

Given that israel controls Gaza through the blockade, they have no choice but to supply those commodities as the Gazans are unable to do so.

 

<Egypt maintains pretty much the same blockade from its own side of the border>

I would imagine that the closure of the Egyptian border is part of the israeli/ Egyptian treaty. I would not doubt that part of the reason Morsi was overthrown, was that he would have moved towards opening the border.

 

 

I quote you: "stopping electricity, fuel, food and water into Gaza would inevitably be either the extermination" and "even the israelis would not dare to commit such a heinous crime."

 

At least you finally confessed that Israel intention is not to exterminate Gaza, so this war cant be called a genocide! if Israel would like to commit genocide, they could easily stop supplying Gaza with life necessities.

These necessities could all come from the Egyptian side, so at least you should give this credit to Israel.

 

Now, you should ask yourself why the Egyptians are so against Hamas! all this time they were supporters of the Palestinians, and definitely not lovers of Israel.

The answer is very simple: unlike you, they finely realized that Hamas is the problem is Gaza, not Israel.

It all started already in the Morsi rule, the Muslim Brotherhood elected PM. Salafis, with the help of Hamas, murdered 16 Egyptian in Sinai desert, and some of them were trying to escape to Gaza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqblfZx9dYo

 

Now, they already realized that leaders of Hamas make big money of this conflict on the back of the Palestinians, and there will be no future with Islamist terror supporting governments. 

BUT dont believe me, listen to them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFGYXeJlyuI