Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

[DPIZZA]

 

 

<Egypt maintains pretty much the same blockade from its own side of the border>
I would imagine that the closure of the Egyptian border is part of the israeli/ Egyptian treaty.

์No. It isn't. Egypt could open it any time that they wanted to, but they have about as much use for Hamas as Israel does and are just as responsible for the blockade on goods going into Gaza. They consider Hamas terrorists that are fomenting violence in Egypt as well as Israel.

"Let Gaza burn with those in it," proclaimed Tawfik Okasha, a pro-military TV presenter known for his rabid anti-Islamist rhetoric. He praised Israel's leadership "You are men," he said for striking back against Hamas after the kidnapping and killing of three Israelis last month.
Another presenter, Amany el-Khayat, accused Hamas of trying to promote its "resistance" image by letting Gazan civilians die, saying the group seeks to "wash its face ... with Palestinians' blood."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/24/facing-calls-to-open-gaza-border-egypt-takes-tough-line-in-rivalry-with-hamas/

 

Interesting.

However, the tunnels from Egypt can only operate with Egyptian complicity. It will be informative to see if Sissi shuts them down.

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 

 

Not only Sissi shuts down the tunnels, he is blowing them up!

The same terror that controls Gaza, is used against Egypt in support of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Hamas is a Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood party. They and the Islamic Jihad factions, help the Salafis (even more extreme Jihadist Muslims, who wants to return to the days of Muhammad, much like Al Quaida ) in Sinai.

 

But more important is that you finally realized, that in other Arab countries, Palestinians are confined in refugee camps, and are not allowed to assimilate into society!

That including citizenship, health care, schools and universities, and esc...

Now, you would be thinking that the Arab states who support the Palestinians would try to ease their suffering by helping them, right?

BUT, the truth is that they dont want to help them, so they can keep them in a refugee status, only to continue the political pressure on Israel.

This is exactly the missing part of the jigsaw you need to understand: Palestinians are a weapon of Arab countries to delegitimize Israel, and to keep the hatred burning.

Here is an example of what they teach refugees in Lebanon:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKv2GGw7f4M&NR=1

[Morch]

 

 

In 1971 I travelled as a student through Israel and the West bank: an open border was between the Kingdom of Siam and the Kingdom of Lanna: students from all the world, inclusive Palestines: all young persons of the World.
The years later terrorist attacks, rockets, grenades from the Palestines towards the Israëli's In their manifest ( constitution): Israel must be wiped away, the jews driven into the see.
I wonder what would have been the attitude of the USA if Mexico, would behave like that, or on daily bases rockets were lunched from Laos to Nong Kai.
Even the Israelis do their utmost to protect also Palestinian civilians see the statement of a British general at the UN see  -, sorry, but 100% protection is impossible, especially when rockets are stored in schools, hospitals etc, see UNWRA school even. And you think, this is the only case ? ?
All recourses in Gaza are used for the military and NOT for schools, water supply, electricity etc as.. why should they, US and EU taxpayers money supports that already since 1948

Why do people bring up that pathetic excuse about what would the US do if Mexico or Canada was rocketing them? Fact is, the US hasn't occupied Mexico or Canada since 1948 and driven most of the population into exile. The Canadian and Mexican population aren't mainly refugees in crowded camps. They have no reason to rocket the US.

The reason for the rockets is the illegal occupation and the collective punishment of people that weren't even born in 1948.

Burning israeli flags on the streets of European cities and applauding crowds show that while israel might win the war, it is losing the battle for public support throughout the world.

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

<see the statement of a British general at the UN >
Who would believe any western establishment figure, ESPECIALLY at the UN? They are all pro israeli.

 

Its not pathetic and its not an excuse!

America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...

 

But thats beside the point:

The point is that people trying to explain to you the ridiculous situation Israel finds itself.

 

Israel didnt cause the refugees problem, on the contrary, it is one of the few countries who helped to solve it.

If Israel wanted to expel all non Jewish from Israel, how can you explain that 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab, Druze, Cherks, Bahais, Samaritans, Beduin esc...

Did you even heard of those minorities? i bet you havent got the slightest clue...

They enjoy full rights, serve in Israeli Army, and enjoy social services, while minorities in Egypt, Gaza, Syria and in many other Muslim countries are almost extinct!

 

If the reason for rocket is illegal occupation, how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements, but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?

 

The Jews were never popular to say the least with you Europeans...Maybe they wont win the popularity contest, but they sure going to win the survival contest, and thats much more then what they could do when they didnt had a country, and you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...

Can you remind me BTW how many buses bombing, rockets firing, kidnappings, raping, murdering did the Jews did towards the Germans?

 

So dont you tell me the Jews doing to the Pali what the Nazis did to them!

 

 

How did Israel help solve the Palestinian refugee problem?

 

The clip linked presents part of the story. There were more than one reasons that led to many of the Palestinians ending up as refugees, not all of them due to the actions of the Arab leadership. There is quite formidable evidence that the fledgling IDF contributed to this as well. Saying that Israel did not cause the refugee problem is inaccurate, but so is saying that Israel is solely responsible for it.

 

As far as I am aware Bahais and Samaritans do not serve in the IDF, other minorities mentioned may opt to serve, not compelled to. Full rights and social services, yes, although many issues with these as well. But probably still a better state than most places in the Middle East.

 

 

[Morch]

 

 

 

In 1971 I travelled as a student through Israel and the West bank: an open border was between the Kingdom of Siam and the Kingdom of Lanna: students from all the world, inclusive Palestines: all young persons of the World.
The years later terrorist attacks, rockets, grenades from the Palestines towards the Israëli's In their manifest ( constitution): Israel must be wiped away, the jews driven into the see.
I wonder what would have been the attitude of the USA if Mexico, would behave like that, or on daily bases rockets were lunched from Laos to Nong Kai.
Even the Israelis do their utmost to protect also Palestinian civilians see the statement of a British general at the UN see -, sorry, but 100% protection is impossible, especially when rockets are stored in schools, hospitals etc, see UNWRA school even. And you think, this is the only case ? ?
All recourses in Gaza are used for the military and NOT for schools, water supply, electricity etc as.. why should they, US and EU taxpayers money supports that already since 1948

Why do people bring up that pathetic excuse about what would the US do if Mexico or Canada was rocketing them? Fact is, the US hasn't occupied Mexico or Canada since 1948 and driven most of the population into exile. The Canadian and Mexican population aren't mainly refugees in crowded camps. They have no reason to rocket the US.

The reason for the rockets is the illegal occupation and the collective punishment of people that weren't even born in 1948.

Burning israeli flags on the streets of European cities and applauding crowds show that while israel might win the war, it is losing the battle for public support throughout the world.

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

<see the statement of a British general at the UN >
Who would believe any western establishment figure, ESPECIALLY at the UN? They are all pro israeli.

 

Its not pathetic and its not an excuse!
America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...
 
But thats beside the point:
The point is that people trying to explain to you the ridiculous situation Israel finds itself.
 
Israel didnt cause the refugees problem, on the contrary, it is one of the few countries who helped to solve it.
If Israel wanted to expel all non Jewish from Israel, how can you explain that 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab, Druze, Cherks, Bahais, Samaritans, Beduin esc...
Did you even heard of those minorities? i bet you havent got the slightest clue...
They enjoy full rights, serve in Israeli Army, and enjoy social services, while minorities in Egypt, Gaza, Syria and in many other Muslim countries are almost extinct!
 
 
If the reason for rocket is illegal occupation, how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements, but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?
 
The Jews were never popular to say the least with you Europeans...Maybe they wont win the popularity contest, but they sure going to win the survival contest, and thats much more then what they could do when they didnt had a country, and you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...
Can you remind me BTW how many buses bombing, rockets firing, kidnappings, raping, murdering did the Jews did towards the Germans?
 
So dont you tell me the Jews doing to the Pali what the Nazis did to them!

 

<how can you explain that in Gaza there are no Israel settlements>
Erm. When israel was forced to evacuate Gaza by Gazan resistance, they had to dismantle all the israeli settlements when they left. You do know that israel used to occupy Gaza, don't you?


<but in West Bank, there are many settlements but not even a single rocket fired, huh?>
You do realise that the west bank is still occupied by israel, don't you? It would be very difficult to smuggle in rockets, let alone fire them. There are no smuggling tunnels to Egypt or Jordan.

<you Europeans exterminated 6 millions of them in WW2...>
I didn't realise that Ireland, Britain, Holland, Spain, Occupied France, Belgium etc were involved in exterminating anyone during WW2.

<America did took over Texas and California from Mexico as a result of war, learn some history...>
You forgot about the Phillipines, American Samoa and Hawaii.
All colonial powers "took over" other lands. It was what they did back then. I don't see the relevance to today.

 

 

By your logic, if occupation is the only things that keeps rockets from raining down on Israel, there's less incentive for

Israel to clear out of the West Bank.
 

[dexterm]

Dpizza wrote....The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

Palestinian people have been living in Palestine for millenia. They were mentioned by Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC and the Romans named the area Syria Palaestina, later the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

It goes back even further ...The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c. 1150 BCE during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. 

 

And don't dig up that hoax Joan Peters crap "From Time Immemorial"    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial (well worth reading the wiki entry) thoroughly discredited by numerous scholars...Although the book initially received a warm reception from mainstream critics, it would later be described as a "fraud" and "forgery" by a number of scholars and historians following an in-depth investigation and refutation of the book's central claims by Norman Finkelstein...yes, and we know before you say it, Israeli apologists, ..Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors, is obviously a self loathing Jew.

[Morch]

 

Dpizza wrote....The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

Palestinian people have been living in Palestine for millenia. They were mentioned by Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC and the Romans named the area Syria Palaestina, later the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

It goes back even further ...The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c. 1150 BCE during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. 

 

And don't dig up that hoax Joan Peters crap "From Time Immemorial"    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial (well worth reading the wiki entry) thoroughly discredited by numerous scholars...Although the book initially received a warm reception from mainstream critics, it would later be described as a "fraud" and "forgery" by a number of scholars and historians following an in-depth investigation and refutation of the book's central claims by Norman Finkelstein...yes, and we know before you say it, Israeli apologists, ..Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors, is obviously a self loathing Jew.

 

 

And your scholarly opinion is that the present day Palestinians are the direct decedents of the original inhabitants? I think even Palestinians do not truly claim this, surnames would be too much of a giveaway.
 

[dr_lucas]

 

Dpizza wrote....The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

Palestinian people have been living in Palestine for millenia. They were mentioned by Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC and the Romans named the area Syria Palaestina, later the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

It goes back even further ...The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c. 1150 BCE during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. 

 

And don't dig up that hoax Joan Peters crap "From Time Immemorial"    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial (well worth reading the wiki entry) thoroughly discredited by numerous scholars...Although the book initially received a warm reception from mainstream critics, it would later be described as a "fraud" and "forgery" by a number of scholars and historians following an in-depth investigation and refutation of the book's central claims by Norman Finkelstein...yes, and we know before you say it, Israeli apologists, ..Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors, is obviously a self loathing Jew.

 

 

Dex, I see you are a fan of ancient history like me. We probably have more than a few things in common (a popular TV series also comes to mind).

You might not be aware, but there were also Jewish Palestinians, prior to 1948, although they will probably not identify themselves by this definition nowadays.

In the history of this region, except for the Muslim and Christian Arabs, there were many ethnic groups who lived on those lands defined as Palestinians, many of them have nothing to do with the Muslim Arabs who define themselves as the Palestinians today.

The whole region was defined as an Arab region (or "the Arab world") for many years. There were many Arab Jews (the term itself is quite controversial tho, but the meaning is basically the same), just as there are many American Jews (or American Muslims etc).

There are Jewish Synagogues (including the well known Synagogue in Gaza built in 508 CE) as well as many Jewish structures revealed in archaeological digs on the lands now called "Palestinian Territories".

[dexterm]

 

 

Dpizza wrote....The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

Palestinian people have been living in Palestine for millenia. They were mentioned by Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC and the Romans named the area Syria Palaestina, later the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

It goes back even further ...The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c. 1150 BCE during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. 

 

And don't dig up that hoax Joan Peters crap "From Time Immemorial"    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial (well worth reading the wiki entry) thoroughly discredited by numerous scholars...Although the book initially received a warm reception from mainstream critics, it would later be described as a "fraud" and "forgery" by a number of scholars and historians following an in-depth investigation and refutation of the book's central claims by Norman Finkelstein...yes, and we know before you say it, Israeli apologists, ..Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors, is obviously a self loathing Jew.

 

 

And your scholarly opinion is that the present day Palestinians are the direct decedents of the original inhabitants?

I think even Palestinians do not truly claim this, surnames would be too much of a giveaway.
 

 

 

Why not? Did these ancient Palestinians just disappear into thin air?

 

No less so than Zionist claims that fair haired blue eyed Azkhenazi Jews are direct descendants of Jews in biblical times after 2 millenia of intermarriage and conversions, thus giving them the right of return after the lease expired 2,000 years ago. Amazing chutzpah.

Edited August 2, 2014 by dexterm

[dexterm]

 

 

Dpizza wrote....The Palestinian nationality was invented to be used as a political weapon, and a propaganda tool against Israel.

There was no Palestinian state before the state of Israel. There was an area called Palestine, but it wasnt a country.

It was part of the British mandate and before that it was part of the Ottoman empire.

 

Palestinian people have been living in Palestine for millenia. They were mentioned by Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th century BC and the Romans named the area Syria Palaestina, later the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

 

It goes back even further ...The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c. 1150 BCE during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. 

 

And don't dig up that hoax Joan Peters crap "From Time Immemorial"    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial (well worth reading the wiki entry) thoroughly discredited by numerous scholars...Although the book initially received a warm reception from mainstream critics, it would later be described as a "fraud" and "forgery" by a number of scholars and historians following an in-depth investigation and refutation of the book's central claims by Norman Finkelstein...yes, and we know before you say it, Israeli apologists, ..Finkelstein, son of Holocaust survivors, is obviously a self loathing Jew.

 

 

Dex, I see you are a fan of ancient history like me. We probably have more than a few things in common (a popular TV series also comes to mind).

You might not be aware, but there were also Jewish Palestinians, prior to 1948, although they will probably not identify themselves by this definition nowadays.

In the history of this region, except for the Muslim and Christian Arabs, there were many ethnic groups who lived on those lands defined as Palestinians, many of them have nothing to do with the Muslim Arabs who define themselves as the Palestinians today.

The whole region was defined as an Arab region (or "the Arab world") for many years. There were many Arab Jews (the term itself is quite controversial tho, but the meaning is basically the same), just as there are many American Jews (or American Muslims etc).

There are Jewish Synagogues (including the well known Synagogue in Gaza built in 508 CE) as well as many Jewish structures revealed in archaeological digs on the lands now called "Palestinian Territories".

 

 

I am not denying that there were believers in the Jewish faith living in Palestine/Israel over 2,000 years ago. It's this hereditary title deed to the homeland I find extremely weak, because clearly Jews are not a distinct ethnic group.  

 

Pre 1948 Jewish numbers had increased via migrations from Europe and Asia, but before 1900 the Jewish population was quite low. That's what this whole conflict is about...one culture/people/religion massively swamping and displacing the exisitng inhabitants...similar problem all over the world.

 

The population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs.

 

In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

 

McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882, 737,389 in 1914, 725,507 in 1922, 880,746 in 1931 and 1,339,763 in 1946.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

[simple1]

 

If the Gazans shoot rockets on Israel because of occupation in West Bank, why doesnt the "west bankers" shoot rockets as well? are they inept?

 

Ever considered that only 11 percent of the West Bank is under full Palestinian control, but subject at any time to Israeli military incursions? 61 percent of West Bank under full Israeli military control? Perhaps right now there are not any rockets stored in relatively secure locations such as tunnels for deployment?

[Jay Sata]

If Israel really wanted a peaceful relationship with the Palestinians they would not be bombing them back to the Stone Age in Gaza or allowing the occupation of the West Bank by over half a million so called settlers.

I hope we will see some of those responsible for the mass killing in Gaza on trial in The Hague sometime in the future.

[Jingthing]

Criticism of Israeli policies that is not poisoned by obvious Judeophobia and also Islamophobia / Anti-Arabism in regards to criticism of enemies of Israel totally A-OK.  Beyond that, I refuse to get engaged with someone clearly just out to BAIT me. So just don't even try. Waste of your time. The reason I have chosen to use the EXISTING word Judeophobia (not a new word per se) instead of the more common term antisemitism as many well know, is simply because of the relentless absurd and incorrect objections that antisemitism doesn't only refer to Jews, which of course, it does. But use of the word Judeophobia puts that silliness to bed. I would rather use the more mainstream word but I don't think that is possible anymore on this forum because it just attracts trollish arguments about its definition. 

 

To add, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to divorce the topic of Judeophobia from discussions about this current conflict between Israel and Hamas. Israel is of course the world's only Jewish state. Hamas of course has a charter that is shockingly and radically Judeophobic. In reaction to this current war, there is an unmistakably spike in Judeophobic speech, protest, and actions in many parts of the world. Including London and Paris. It is mixed of course with totally legitimate protest of Israeli policies, but the Judeophobic aspects of it are clear to anyone with eyes and ears. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[7by7]

<snip>
Criticism of Israeli policies that is not poisoned by obvious Judeophobia and also Islamophobia / Anti-Arabism in regards to criticism of enemies of Israel totally A-OK.

 

Unfortunately, engaging in a rational debate with you on this subject is impossible as you, from your posts, seem to regard ALL criticism of Israeli policies as Judeophobic.

 

You regularly bring that, and similar, accusations up whenever someone makes a post critical of the Israeli government which you know you have no answer to.

[dr_lucas]

Most if not all members here are debating who to blame and who is at fault, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

(My personal opinions on this are known after the 100+ posts I made on this topic)

Aren't you guys interested in peace?

I don't remember seeing any posts about:

- Constructive suggestions on how to resolve the conflict

- Realistic suggestions on how to stop the bloodshed once and for all

 

I'd really love to read your opinions. I believe many would.

[Jingthing]

 

Unfortunately, engaging in a rational debate with you on this subject is impossible as you, from your posts, seem to regard ALL criticism of Israeli policies as Judeophobic.

 

 

 

That is incorrect. That is not how I feel and I have never said that. I can't control your perceptions though. I find it is a lie that many anti-Israel critics are spreading now that ALL criticism of Israeli policy are attacked as Judeophobic. Again, not true. Some is. Some isn't. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

 

<snip>
Criticism of Israeli policies that is not poisoned by obvious Judeophobia and also Islamophobia / Anti-Arabism in regards to criticism of enemies of Israel totally A-OK.

 

Unfortunately, engaging in a rational debate with you on this subject is impossible as you, from your posts, seem to regard ALL criticism of Israeli policies as Judeophobic.

 

You regularly bring that, and similar, accusations up whenever someone makes a post critical of the Israeli government which you know you have no answer to.

 

 

I am pretty sure that he brings it up because he believes it to be true much of the time - as do I - and - FYI - neither one of us has any problem answering the anti-Israeli talking points on this forum. 

[7by7]

 

Unfortunately, engaging in a rational debate with you on this subject is impossible as you, from your posts, seem to regard ALL criticism of Israeli policies as Judeophobic.

That is incorrect. That is not how I feel and I have never said that. I can't control your perceptions though. I find it is a lie that many anti-Israel critics are spreading now that ALL criticism of Israeli policy are attacked as Judeophobic. Again, not true. Some is. Some isn't.

 

OK, I accept that saying 'all' may be incorrect.

But, as I went on to say

You regularly bring that, and similar, accusations up whenever someone makes a post critical of the Israeli government which you know you have no answer to.

[7by7]

 

 

<snip>
Criticism of Israeli policies that is not poisoned by obvious Judeophobia and also Islamophobia / Anti-Arabism in regards to criticism of enemies of Israel totally A-OK.

 

Unfortunately, engaging in a rational debate with you on this subject is impossible as you, from your posts, seem to regard ALL criticism of Israeli policies as Judeophobic.

 

You regularly bring that, and similar, accusations up whenever someone makes a post critical of the Israeli government which you know you have no answer to.

 

 

I am pretty sure that he brings it up because he believes it to be true much of the time - as do I - and - FYI - neither one of us has any problem answering the anti-Israeli talking points on this forum. 

 

Condemned from your own keyboard!

[Ulysses G.]

Aren't you the guy who tried to make excuses and justifications for all the neo-Nazis and Islamic Hate Groups marching in anti-Semitic protests in Europe? Facts are facts.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

Aren't you the guy who tried to make excuses and justifications for all the neo-Nazis and Islamic Hate Groups marching in anti-Semitic protests in Europe? Facts are facts.

 

No, I am not that guy.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Aren't you the guy who tried to make excuses and justifications for all the neo-Nazis and Islamic Hate Groups marching in anti-Semitic protests in Europe? Facts are facts.

 

No, I am not that guy.

 

 

He's definitely not that guy.  In fact, I don't remember reading any posts by any of the regular posters on these Israel/Palestine threads justifying anything that neo-nazi  or other hate groups do. 

 

But It's just more of the same.  If someone speaks out against Israel, that person is immediately labeled an 'antisemite" who "hates Jews" and is engaging in "hate speech".
 

[Jingthing]

...
If someone speaks out against Israel, that person is immediately labeled an 'antisemite" who "hates Jews" and is engaging in "hate speech".

 

 

That's a lie. Rhetoric has been described as Judeophobic ... when it is. Reasoned criticism of Israeli policies cannot be described that way. There are of course grey areas of what constitutes hate speech, and there always will be. 

[Ulysses G.]

Aren't you the guy who tried to make excuses and justifications for all the neo-Nazis and Islamic Hate Groups marching in anti-Semitic protests in Europe? Facts are facts.

 
No, I am not that guy.

Funny. I remember it differently.

You are correct in saying that both right wing and left wing groups are involved; which shows how abhorrence of Israel's actions unites across the usual political divides.

[Morch]

 

 

If the Gazans shoot rockets on Israel because of occupation in West Bank, why doesnt the "west bankers" shoot rockets as well? are they inept?

 

Ever considered that only 11 percent of the West Bank is under full Palestinian control, but subject at any time to Israeli military incursions? 61 percent of West Bank under full Israeli military control? Perhaps right now there are not any rockets stored in relatively secure locations such as tunnels for deployment?

 

 

Well, this sort of reasoning may be counter-productive to the chances of getting Israel to withdraw from the West Bank...
 

[Morch]

If Israel really wanted a peaceful relationship with the Palestinians they would not be bombing them back to the Stone Age in Gaza or allowing the occupation of the West Bank by over half a million so called settlers.

I hope we will see some of those responsible for the mass killing in Gaza on trial in The Hague sometime in the future.

 

Must have missed the part were Hamas was talking about peace.
 

[7by7]

 

 

Aren't you the guy who tried to make excuses and justifications for all the neo-Nazis and Islamic Hate Groups marching in anti-Semitic protests in Europe? Facts are facts.

 
No, I am not that guy.

 

Funny. I remember it differently.

You are correct in saying that both right wing and left wing groups are involved; which shows how abhorrence of Israel's actions unites across the usual political divides.

 

 

Where in that sentence is there any excuse or justification of any neo Nazi or hate group; whatever their religious persuasion, or of any anti Semitic march or protest?

 

Show me anything in that post, or any other of mine, which in anyway could be considered such.

Edited August 3, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

 

Neither does comparing the actions of the current Israeli government to those of the Nazis.

You are back to this hateful drivel again.
Israel allows its minorities to vote - in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote - and have their own political parties. In 2011 Arabs held 14 seats in the Knesset. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.   In fact, the sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that Arabs are not required to serve in the Israeli army, but they can if they want to.
Jews in Germany, on the other hand, were stripped of all their rights, imprisoned in concentration camps and gassed. There is no legitimate comparison of the actions of the Israeli government  with the Nazis.
 It is not only anti-Semitic, but just plain asinine. 

 

 
Read the post in question again; I am not comparing Israel's policies to the death camps.
 
Indeed, I actually said "I am not saying, of course, that Israel's 'final solution to the Palestinian problem' will be in any way similar to the Nazi's 'final solution to the Jewish problem.'"

You must have missed that bit.

[DPIZZA]

 

 

The west bank didn't elect Hamas, but they still get their land stolen and live every day under collective punishment.

 

They elected Fatah, who are saner than Hamas, but still cheered the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers by Hamas members. They are hardly good guys.

 

It has not been proven that Hamas did that. That is israeli propaganda.

 

yes it was proven,

 

and the evidence were submitted to review to the US, European and even the UN chairman Ban Kimoon, who traditionally doesnt support Israel, replied he is shocked from Hamas behavior, and that he sends his condolences to the murdered families... 

[Jay Sata]

Hamas...Hamas ...Hamas...

Have they killed over 2000 Jewish civilians in the last month?

The so called Hamas rockets that this slaughter is based on by warmonger Netanyahu kill just a handful of people.

The Zionists running Israel need to be brought before the international courts in The Hague for the ethnic cleansing programme they are carrying out akin to Bosnia. Edited August 3, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Regrets the volume of Jewish dead doesn't meet your specifications. Israel has the right to defend itself from rocket and tunnel attacks. Period. 

Israel is going to back off soon.

Hamas still has capabilities.

What will Hamas do?

What do you think?

I think I know ... they won't quit and will basically be INVITING Israel to come back at them.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[DPIZZA]

 

When the Daily Mail's Max Hastings turns against Israel, you know it's in deep trouble. The PR tide has turned against israel.

 

"I've always loved Israel but this brutality breaks my heart

 

Were the world’s attention not overwhelmingly fixed on the fate of Flight MH17, it would have more to say about that of the Palestinian inhabitants of Gaza. Bombed and battered by Israeli air and firepower, they are dying in scores, victims alike of their own leadership and Israeli ruthlessness."

 

more at....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2703531/MAX-HASTINGS-Ive-loved-Israel-brutality-breaks-heart.html

 

 

 

Israel never had a lot of support when it had operations in Gaza.

Nobody argues with the fact that civilians are also dying in this conflict, and that it is terrible, even on the Israeli side.

You can argue about how many civilians died, but thats besides the point...

The argument here is WHY these civilians die, and WHAT is the solution to the problem.

 

As long as Hamas controls Gaza, as long as its leaders making billions of dollars from the conflict, as long as there is a culture of death and martyrdom among the Palestinians, there will never be an end to this, and this will be only one of many operations to come.

 

Gaza chose death and misery when it elected Hamas in a free elections. Now they see the results.

The only solution is for Hamas to renounce terrorism and become a legitimate political party, similarly to the PLO, or alternately, the PLO taking control of Gaza from Hamas.

Once that happens, all that wasted money they spent on worthless artillery, tunnels, racist and Jihadist education, and other terror tools, will be invested in schools, hospitals, factories for the welfare of the Gazans.

There is no territorial dispute between Gaza and Israel since 2005 when Israel left Gaza.

They need to accept Israel as a state (it is madness not to recognize a state that exists already 67 years!), and try to solve the problems around the negotiation table!