Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence?

Because Hamas would join with them and conduct terrorist attacks elsewhere. They wouldn't need to dig those tunnels to accomplish the same thing, now would they?

 

 

Oh right, because its impossible for Israeli border guard to tell the difference between Gazans and terrorists. Women, kids, young men...all potential Hamas operatives...

 

 

 Indeed.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qy8fbkOHMKU



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=N3OYjKZ2Cu8

[Ulysses G.]

Attacking Jewish businesses, temples, and shooting Jewish children in schools in France is without any doubt antisemitic.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
So what do you call the IDF bombing Palestinian schools, hospitals, mosques etc. in Gaza; which you have defended?

The IDF are bombing rocket and ammunition storage facilities and the people are warned to get out first. There is no moral equivalence.  

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees is investigating the discovery of 20 rockets hidden in one of its vacant schools in the Gaza Strip. The UNRWA condemned the incident as a "flagrant violation" of international law, adding that the rockets had been removed and that the relevant parties had been informed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/unrwa-investigating-20-rockets-empty-gaza-school-palestinian

 
This is the way the Israeli propaganda machine works.

Actually, it is the way that the Hamas terrorists work. Conduct terrorist strikes and hide behind civilians.

[kblaze]

 

If on another planet you were a Gazan and those reports start buzzing around, wouldn't you be pretty reluctant to go to a UN shelter

 

I would be a lot more reluctant to stay in my home with Israel dropping leaflets and calling me on the phone telling me that they were going to bomb the area. You'd have to be really stupid or held hostage by Hamas not to leave.

 

 

Sure, I wouldn't stay home either. Ok, so do I go to a UN school, nope there are 10,000 people there already, maybe I'll go hide in the ag lands...nope thats near the border, could get shot...I'll try my luck at the border, nope...

[bina]

gazains have dual usa /france/egyption/jordanian passports or laezze passe papers; many also have families in israel and can apply for 'ihud mishpahot', something like id id with my thai husband. some get it, some dont. i know some women that did (they  have israeli arab husbands); i know of several kids that have syrian only papers due to an israeli arab father and a syrina bride mother (see the movie about syrian brides and u will understand) and live here in israel with the same 'border pass papers'; jordanians in the e. jerusalem area with no israel passport (citizenship =passport); israelei arab men with jordanian brides waiting for residency, etc and so forth.

 

for thsoe living outside israel , everything seems so black and white. but nothing is farther from the truth.

its all shades of grey. we have arab muslems in the army and they really do think they are defending their country because for all pracical purposes they are. better roads, houses, jobs, health and educaiton, then either of the palestinian areas. they wouldn trade for anything.

palestinian doctors in hospitals, some of the best doctors; palestinian patients on treatments in israeli hospitals.

and frankly, no arabs i know would bother to go to gaza. they prefer ramalla as the 'paris' of israel/palestine for shopping.

 

the gaza civilians (mostly women and children) are sheep to the slaughter by their own leaders. their education system doesnt teach them to question, they only recite. and they recite what their leaders want , implanting hate and violence at an early age. if all the women with their 6-10 children would get up and leave, and refuse ,all at once, to allow any terroroist/masculine organizations to use their houses/shcools/clinics or residential areas for anything, the picture could have been different. but they have no power to say no to anyone as it is a male dominated country. the women have no say in anything. so they are victims. you dont see pictures of the expensive villas and fat gaza men sitting around smoking their narghilas  getting bombed. you see the poor crowded areas . the rich gazaains dont even live their. they live in dubai and other countries, leaving the yearning hordes to die for them.

since i personally can attest, although there are disgusting israeli soldiers in every unit, (due to fear, ignorance or just meaness), the majority of the soldiers, kids that i personally know, are not violent child killers. they are not going in to torture and mutilate women and children (as seems to have happened in other countries wiht otehr soldiers); they are 18 year olds, trained but mostly never have seen real action, coming face to face with 'the enemy' . no wonder in the first days a foot soldier was wounded by a tank  unit thinking he was a terrorits. fear makes eveyrone quick on the trigger.

of course its terrible what is happening to the civilians. but what else can be done? do people think that armies fight like football games? everyone wheres a diferent colour and you know who to attack? and people follow rules? how do you know that a five year old carrying a shcool bag doenst have a bomb? maybe his shahid uncle gave it to him and promised him some sweets if he give sthe package to a nice soldier? if u are a soldier do u trust a five year old giving you a package? shoudl you? would YUOU?

ive heard arabs here claiming that outside sources are manipulating the hamas into this position and that they dont care about the civilians; theyll make new babies in place of the dead ones>

those of us here hear and see what you outsiders dont... besides, the hamas arent fighting to protect themselves, they want to get rid of us. we are defending, not offensive, defensive. if , all of a sudden, the hamasniks all sat down on the ground, piled up their weaponery, and and waited, israel would call back all of its units, and return them home.

there is tremmendous public pressure to get out of there as soon as possilbe. the  idf is not a mercenary army or some gung ho marine core like in the movies made up of war scarred  veterans shooting in all directions like some clint eastwood bad guy. its a bunch of kids just out of high shcool who feel they are defending their homes against someone attacking them. even for the hard core guys who may be bigots and arab haters, when face to face with a crying infant, difficult to believe that they dont maek the connection to their own small brothers, etc.

 

i dont see our soldiers dancing and singing after a night of skirmishes. they are sending us messages filled with tiredness, worry, anxiety, guilt, confusion and also pride at protecting us , a feeling needed in order to keep going. they will come back traumatized possibly, with mixed feelings if they actually killed and saw whom they fired at, at what they did, ifr they can justify their actions... all the dilemnas that most war veterans face when coming back home.

im not so sure the hamas fireing at us feel the same .

 

of course off topic, i just find it difficult to understand all the keyboard jockeys argueing over and over the same things, based only on what they se ereported which is often distorted, and not actually meeting the poeple involved.

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

[kblaze]

 

 

 

Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence?

Because Hamas would join with them and conduct terrorist attacks elsewhere. They wouldn't need to dig those tunnels to accomplish the same thing, now would they?

 

 

Oh right, because its impossible for Israeli border guard to tell the difference between Gazans and terrorists. Women, kids, young men...all potential Hamas operatives...

 

 

 Indeed.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qy8fbkOHMKU



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=N3OYjKZ2Cu8

 

 

Ok now that we have gotten it out of the way that any Palestinian, any age, could be a suicide bomber, the civilian death toll..becomes...much..much..easier to digest..

[Ulysses G.]

Of course, you have no idea of what the civilian toll actually is or how many were used as human shields.

[Bluespunk]

 

 

Anyone marching to protest against terrorist scum indiscriminately firing missiles into civilian areas in Israel?

 
 
Civilian areas? Open fields are Civilian areas? Enough with the spin...
 
Have a look here Mr. Spunk. 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

Just because their aim is crap doesn't mean the intent is any less barbaric. Terrorist scum is what they are.

No spin required and I regard Wikipedia as a joke, not a source of solid information.

The pause is after the s. Still when your point is so weak you resort to abuse and wikipedia why should I worry.
 

 
Israel deliberately fires sophisticated powerful weapons directly at apartment blocks which they know will kill hundreds of innocent children.
 
Now that is definitely a war crime.

I've already said that no side has the right to target, harm or kill civilians and to do so is a war crime. Hamas is just as guilty as Israel.

[dexterm]

UGS,

>>Actually, it is the way that the Hamas terrorists work. Conduct terrorist strikes and hide behind civilians. 

 

... you mean like this...

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

Oh horrors. A teenager throwing rocks at police is stuck on the front of a vehicle to stop his friends from doing the same thing. I hope that it taught him a lesson.

[dexterm]

Oh horrors. A teenager throwing rocks at police is stuck on the front of a vehicle to stop his friends from doing the same thing. I hope that it taught him a lesson.

 

Maybe you prefer the IDF using human shields in Gaza instead...

 

[Ulysses G.]

He is not much of a shield. The soldiers are all out in the open. He is more like a captive. He was probably throwing rocks at them,

 

Hamas does it the old fashioned way, like their daddies taught them.  

 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[JDGRUEN]

[attachment=276125:10526069_10204328070902283_3285099690864021719_n.jpg][attachment=276126:10491260_802208533135352_3572235157300029267_n.jpg][attachment=276127:10514592_809427295746809_4056789415902922331_n.jpg][attachment=276128:10373821_810639005625638_5438101572029524897_n.jpg][attachment=276129:10431369_815035548519317_6721625812328746216_o.jpg]

[DPIZZA]

Which ever side your on does not matter, at the moment there is a wholesale slaughter of innocents in Gazza, who have nothing to do with the rockets being fired, or can do anything to stop them

You are right that something have to be done, but i am sure that you agree with me that the "right thing" have to be done.

Lets look at the facts:

1. until 2005 Israel controlled Gaza. It later left it unilaterally.

2. The people of Gaza chose Hamas in democratic elections (which the Americans pushed for, btw)...

3. Hamas took over Gaza, and killed anyone who objected (mostly from the PLO). 

4. Hamas is a Jihadist terror organization who clearly calls for the destruction and murder of Israel and Jews.

5. Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel for the past 8 years.

6. Hamas built and store most of its artillery and weaponry inside civilian centers (kindergartens, Mosques, Hospitals).

7. Hamas support a death culture which calls for Shahida (martyrdom).

8. The heads of Hamas became billionaires from tunnel smuggling commodities into Gaza, and donations from Muslims around the world.

9. Hamas was starting to loose the favor of the street, so it kidnapped and murdered 3 young Israeli men.

10. Israel calls for the evacuation of the areas from civilian before they bomb it- Hamas forbid it, and threatens anyone who leaves.

11. Hamas refused all the cease fire proposed by Egypt, and broke the short term Humanitarian cease fires.

12. Hamas cynically uses the death of civilians for propaganda and to steer hate against Israel.

 

If anyone have any problem with any point i made, i am ready to prove each one of them.

 

if you consider the fact, you can understand that it is Hamas interest that the Palestinians will continue to die.

The only way for them to have a better life, is to reject Hamas leadership, sit to negotiate peace with Israel.

But Hamas will never willingly go down from power, or let anyone voice its opinion against theirs.

[Morch]

 

 

Important people keep that in mind when they hide behind the defense; "it's the Gazans' fault for not moving to safer places". Where are they supposed to go?

Israel is letting Palestinians with foreign passports leave the country and the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians has set up special shelters set up in 20 United Nations schools in Gaza. That is where they should go, but Hamas is still ordering them not to leave their houses even after they have been warned. The Hamas terrorists want them to die for the PR value. 

 

 

Wow, is Israel now issuing passports to over a million Gazans who themselves, their parents or grandparents were actually born in Israel, had their land confiscated  and have been expelled by Jews born in New York?

 

 

This is not what UG posted and nothing to do with anything happening in the Gaza Strip.

With so many things to bash Israel with, why bother making up stuff?
 

[Morch]

 

 

Important people keep that in mind when they hide behind the defense; "it's the Gazans' fault for not moving to safer places". Where are they supposed to go?

Israel is letting Palestinians with foreign passports leave the country and the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians has set up special shelters set up in 20 United Nations schools in Gaza. That is where they should go, but Hamas is still ordering them not to leave their houses even after they have been warned. The Hamas terrorists want them to die for the PR value. 

 

 

Wow thats so nice of Israel to "let" Palestinians leave, oh wait! just the ones with foreign passports. Gee what is that .00001%? What about Palestinians in Gaza that have family in the West Bank whom would take them in? Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence? Seriously, look at what's happening, a 1000x more powerful country locks down a smaller neighbor, keeps the population from leaving, then bombs it to oblivion. Where else has this happened in history..

 

Oh and 20 Schools for 1.8 million. 

 

90,000 people per "school". (go ahead cut the numbers by 1/10...its still uninhabitable)

 

And what about those Gazans that don't trust the security of the UN buildings? I thought I heard rockets had been found at one recently?

If on another planet you were a Gazan and those reports start buzzing around, wouldn't you be pretty reluctant to go to a UN shelter, knowing what happened in 2009? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7814054.stm

 

 

The Gaza Strip got a border pass with Egypt. Egypt is not currently being attacked by Hamas and other organizations, although relationship have gone sour. Still a wee bit better than how things stand between Israel and the Hamas. The Egyptians could let them in, even as a temporary measure - and yet they choose not to. Somehow not getting anywhere near the flack Israel does.
 

[Morch]

 

 

 

Attacking Jewish businesses, temples, and shooting Jewish children in schools in France is without any doubt antisemitic.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
So what do you call the IDF bombing Palestinian schools, hospitals, mosques etc. in Gaza; which you have defended?

 

The IDF are bombing rocket and ammunition storage facilities and the people are warned to get out first. There is no moral equivalence.  

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees is investigating the discovery of 20 rockets hidden in one of its vacant schools in the Gaza Strip. The UNRWA condemned the incident as a "flagrant violation" of international law, adding that the rockets had been removed and that the relevant parties had been informed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/unrwa-investigating-20-rockets-empty-gaza-school-palestinian

 

 

This is the way the Israeli propaganda machine works...find one school, one hospital, one mosque, one ambulance...doesn’t have to be true... which then makes every school, hospital, mosque, ambulance a legitimate target and the innocent civilians non people collateral damage.

 

 

Or, this is the other side's propaganda - deny, deny, deny and then deny some more.

As if every time these things come up is a first.

Of course, this also demands ignoring that not every school, hospital, mosque and ambulance are attacked.

Of course, this also demands that anyone hurt is automatically tagged as an innocent civilian.
 

[Morch]

UGS,

>>Actually, it is the way that the Hamas terrorists work. Conduct terrorist strikes and hide behind civilians. 

 

... you mean like this...

 

 

 

Article is from 2004, if me old eyes don't lie....
 

[Morch]

 

Oh horrors. A teenager throwing rocks at police is stuck on the front of a vehicle to stop his friends from doing the same thing. I hope that it taught him a lesson.

 

Maybe you prefer the IDF using human shields in Gaza instead...

 

 

 

Link, please?
 

[Jay Sata]

It is a waste of time posting the truth here,better you support financial embargo elsewhere on countries such as Russia and Israel who kill innocent civilians .

In the UK the Co OP and others do not sell produce from the occupied territories.

[CBR250]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/5989

 

These are the people who brought you 9-11, whose ideology is the same as those who bombed London, Madrid and Mumbai.  In calling for death to the Jews, they distort the same religious teachings as those responsible for the massacre of kids in the Beslan school and the audience of a Moscow theatre.  All told there have been over 23,300 deadly terror attacks by Islamists since September 11 2001*.    

These militant friends of yours are followers of the same religious perversion as the barbarians who decapitated soldier Lee Rigby in broad daylight on a London street in a grotesque show before horrified witnesses.

This is the brotherhood which tries to blow people up at 30,000 feet with explosives hidden in shoes, underwear, water bottles and inkjet cartridges. Whose footsoldiers even now are developing new methods of murder in the skies. They are the reason why all passengers have to take off shoes and belts to go through all that scanning and frisking before getting on a plane. Without these new friends of yours, air travel might still be the enjoyable experience it used to be before another of their brothers,Yasser Arafat, brought terrorist hijackings into our peaceful world in 1969.

For those of you in academia: know that the folks you join hands with on Sunday are in the same tent as those who bullied English headteachers out of their jobs in order to radicalise the next generation in Britain’s own state schools.  The ‘Trojan Horse’ scandal is thought by investigators to be just the tip of a very ugly iceberg.

And to those of you who work in the media: spare a thought for the 100 and more journalists imprisoned in Islamic countries. Mr Erdogan’s brotherhood government of Turkey (a NATO country!) holds top spot for the 3rd year running, with more jailed reporters than even Iran. 

And do you even remember the name Daniel Pearl?  He was the Washington Post reporter who was decapitated on camera by the same brotherhood you stand with.  I don’t recall any of you media hacks protesting against that outrage on one of your own people. Maybe that’s because he also happened to be one of our people.

 

I think most of us on here expressing concern about Israel's disproportionate reaction to Hamas also don't support killers who happen to be Islamic. Because people support the general thrust of USA policy does not mean they are "friends" and "supporters" of Staff Sargeant Robert Bales, who murdered 16 unarmed Afghani civilians. Objecting to the murder of Palestinian women and children by Israeli weapons does not mean one also supports extreme acts of terrorists.

Similarly, I would like to assume that while you obviously support the Israeli viewpoint, that you would condemn those Jews responsible for the kidnapping, torture and murder of 16 year old Mohammed Abu Khdeir a few weeks ago. Which, by the way, the Israeli media is not allowed to comment on.....

[Morch]

 

 

I think most of us on here expressing concern about Israel's disproportionate reaction to Hamas also don't support killers who happen to be Islamic. Because people support the general thrust of USA policy does not mean they are "friends" and "supporters" of Staff Sargeant Robert Bales, who murdered 16 unarmed Afghani civilians. Objecting to the murder of Palestinian women and children by Israeli weapons does not mean one also supports extreme acts of terrorists.

Similarly, I would like to assume that while you obviously support the Israeli viewpoint, that you would condemn those Jews responsible for the kidnapping, torture and murder of 16 year old Mohammed Abu Khdeir a few weeks ago. Which, by the way, the Israeli media is not allowed to comment on.....

 

 

Guess you did not bother to check much when posting your last bit.

The killers of the boy were arrested and interrogated. They confessed and will be brought before a judge.

MO of the group, name of main suspect and his picture are on the media (and so are many other details

to do with him).

Edited July 21, 2014 by Morch

[Morch]

It is a waste of time posting the truth here,better you support financial embargo elsewhere on countries such as Russia and Israel who kill innocent civilians .

In the UK the Co OP and others do not sell produce from the occupied territories.

 

Boycott Russia and Israel, you say?  And that would take care of most of the wrong in the world?

Or even of most innocent civilians killed by governments?

[DPIZZA]

 

 

...

 

Bring on the excuses

 

OK. 

Fine.

Gaza is controlled by Hamas. 

A terrorist organization. 

Hamas charter clearly states: take over all of Israel, kick out/kill the Jews there, even kill the Jews everywhere.

They are rabidly antisemitic. There is no doubt about that. Not just anti-Israel. 

Hamas is rocketing Israel from Gaza.

This is a WAR situation.

Hamas was offered a peaceful way out. They decline. 

Hamas deliberately stores rockets in civilian areas.

They use human shields.

They don't bother to  build shelters for their  own people.

They are HEAVILY CULPABLE for the deaths of their own people in this way, violent provocation and predictable and JUSTIFIED military response.

To get at the rockets/tunnels Israel is forced to inflict casualties of innocents.

Hamas designed it that way.

Do I think Israel could do more to reduce civilian casualties?

Yes. I do.

I also think they could do less and critics of Israel don't give them any credit for the measures they do take which are more than many armies would. 

 

 

“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-moral-clarity-in-gaza/2014/07/17/0adabe0c-0de4-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

 

 

Quote me fully or dont bother. Do you want to tell me you havnt been persecuted in your life yet say its ok to mistreat others ?  

 

Think outside the military shoot to kill box for a moment.

 

insanity definition as many have posted is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.. well consistent action taken by Israel by always responding in this overkill manner is insanity. 

 

The word terrorist is subjective, what is bombing and killing civilians (even if shields ) if not terrorism ? eye for an eye is the Jewish way as much as Muslim but it dosnt work longterm, all it does is perpetuate the killings and guarantee its never ending. 

 

Mossad is one of if not the most informed secret service on the planet and they cant take out or arrest the vast majority of terrorists in a cordoned off sector or dont know a better less destructive way of dealing with things ? really in this day and age or technology ? 

 

 

Critics of Israel and nowhere near enough when it commits atrocities and that should be its own people demanding a better answer ( many do ) but the media wont give them a voice as its controlled by the same pro Israeli megalomaniacs.

 

Palestinian population.

Gaza Strip 1,657,155

 

About 2/3 are women and children so that leaves roughly 500k of which not all are Hamas, far from it. No point walling up a people in a prison, its not an answer, nor is systematic land grab from the same people.... this is all part of the bigger issue and peace. 

 

For 60 years there has been no answer to the issue, we have moved on in both tech and education, it is high time other solutions were found and every time that Israel commits a crime or breaks the law the US comes down and vetos any international action against it, every single ****** time.

 

This is the rule of the jungle and is not a solution and is still to this day reminiscent of Europe going to the Americas and taking out the native population.

 

We should be able to by now to find better ways of dealing with issues than this. Yes Hamas are a nut group but so is Israels consistant response and its lack of will to find a solution or allow things to progress, The US is absolutely part of this by backing Israel 100% when its in the wrong.. It knows it can get away with it.

 

i guess Jingthing is tired of repeating the same thing again and again to different people,

but im new here and still fresh, so ill be glad to answer all of your questions.

 

Before that, i would like to know what is exactly your expertise in Military, combat, intelligence or studies of the middle east/Arab world?

(watching home front, Hollywood movies, and playing BattleField on PS doesnt count...)

I'm not trying to mock you, its just i really need to know before you going to give me that "other way" Israel should take, which you are referring to.

This "other way" ofcourse, have to be serious enough to protect the lives of 7 million Israelis, women and children for a long enough period, like a few years (nobody asks for ever)...

So i am ready to listen...

 

The insanity in this case, is that Israel needs to endanger its soldiers in a urban landscape (if you had any military education you should know its the worst kind), because it tries to minimize civilian casualties, while Hamas by positioning itself inside civilian centers, maximizes the number of casualties, and people like you giving them rewards by continuing to support them!

 

Insanity is when Israel refrains from retaliating for 8 ****ing years to a barrage of rockets on its territory, because it tries to appease the world opinion, and when those guys pushing it over this already crossed red line, by shooting at a school bus, or killing 3 boys, people like you are calling it unjustifiable!

 

Dont worry, i dont call you Anti Semite, but i will call you a "useful idiot", and again im not mocking you. It is a term used by the soviets to describe their supporters in the west.

You are with your posts support Hamas, while their leaders let their people be killed, and sit in far away Qatar, starting a new real estate project worth billions, which they stole/ earned due to this conflict (khaled Mashel if you are wondering who), and that is thanks to people like you.

 

So you are not helping the Gazans, you just contributing to the continuation of this statuesque...  

[Jay Sata]

We are not talking about the world here but the poor people locked inside Gaza who have no escape and no future.

If you want to stir a hornets nest poke it with a stick.

The casualties on both sides originate from the death of three 'settler' Israeli teenagers who were hitchhiking back to their home in a settler village in the West Bank.

Israel has no rights to 'settle' the West Bank. The UN has already decided that.

The emotions of people robbed of their land owned for decades and an apartheid regime run high.

Every Palestinian youngster who sees their family destroyed by Israeli militia and with no future is another freedom fighter hell bent
on getting revenge.
And so the cycle continues.

[Morch]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

 

Well, you brought Russia into this, thought there was a general sentiment about making the world a better place.

 

The notion that the origin of casualties can be attributed to the kidnapping and murder of the three Israelis is an

opinion, not fact. It does a good job of ignoring other issues that brought this mess to a head, and that might have

played a more meaningful part in this. Using a single incident as a foundation for explaining a complex situation

does not strike me as very illuminating or as bearing much potential in getting insight into the issues at hand.

 

Same goes for most of the emotional rhetoric some posters go for - it does not help things one bit, unless trying

to stir things up or win some brownie points. Applies to using loaded terms such  as "Apartheid" and "genocide"

(aware you did not use that in your post, appeared earlier) just as well. Hyperbole rarely solves anything.

 

The last part of your post, I can identify with completely. That too cuts both ways, of course, one man's freedom

fighter is another man's terrorist and all that. But again, as it is with many posts here, sort of focuses on Israel,

and what it ought to do. Less clear what is expected of the Palestinians in this context, if at all.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Scott
Direct post edited out

[simple1]

Antisemitism in France has become very severe. Nothing new in that. That's why large numbers of French Jews have moved in recent years to the Jewish state.

 

off topic:

 

True France has a historical record of anti-semitism. When you look at curent polls it seems the general French population has a high percentile of those holding anti semitic views,  I understand the current percentile of Muslims in France is around 5 - 10 percent of population, so by numbers far more non Muslims are anti semetic

 

According to the survey, the overall level of antisemitism in France increased to 24 percent of the population

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_21st-century_France

 

All rather odd when taking account of French brutality in previously French occupied / controlled Muslim countries

Edited July 21, 2014 by simple1

[dexterm]

 

 

 

Important people keep that in mind when they hide behind the defense; "it's the Gazans' fault for not moving to safer places". Where are they supposed to go?

Israel is letting Palestinians with foreign passports leave the country and the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians has set up special shelters set up in 20 United Nations schools in Gaza. That is where they should go, but Hamas is still ordering them not to leave their houses even after they have been warned. The Hamas terrorists want them to die for the PR value. 

 

 

Wow thats so nice of Israel to "let" Palestinians leave, oh wait! just the ones with foreign passports. Gee what is that .00001%? What about Palestinians in Gaza that have family in the West Bank whom would take them in? Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence? Seriously, look at what's happening, a 1000x more powerful country locks down a smaller neighbor, keeps the population from leaving, then bombs it to oblivion. Where else has this happened in history..

 

Oh and 20 Schools for 1.8 million. 

 

90,000 people per "school". (go ahead cut the numbers by 1/10...its still uninhabitable)

 

And what about those Gazans that don't trust the security of the UN buildings? I thought I heard rockets had been found at one recently?

If on another planet you were a Gazan and those reports start buzzing around, wouldn't you be pretty reluctant to go to a UN shelter, knowing what happened in 2009? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7814054.stm

 

 

The Gaza Strip got a border pass with Egypt. Egypt is not currently being attacked by Hamas and other organizations,

although relationship have gone sour. Still a wee bit better than how things stand between Israel and the Hamas.

The Egyptians could let them in, even as a temporary measure - and yet they choose not to. Somehow not getting anywher

near the flack Israel does.
 

 

 

Egypt is the US and Israeli puppet. Just because they speak Arabic doesn't make them allies of Gazans

[simple1]

 

 

 

 

Israel is letting Palestinians with foreign passports leave the country and the U.N. refugee agency for Palestinians has set up special shelters set up in 20 United Nations schools in Gaza. That is where they should go, but Hamas is still ordering them not to leave their houses even after they have been warned. The Hamas terrorists want them to die for the PR value. 

 

 

Wow thats so nice of Israel to "let" Palestinians leave, oh wait! just the ones with foreign passports. Gee what is that .00001%? What about Palestinians in Gaza that have family in the West Bank whom would take them in? Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence? Seriously, look at what's happening, a 1000x more powerful country locks down a smaller neighbor, keeps the population from leaving, then bombs it to oblivion. Where else has this happened in history..

 

Oh and 20 Schools for 1.8 million. 

 

90,000 people per "school". (go ahead cut the numbers by 1/10...its still uninhabitable)

 

And what about those Gazans that don't trust the security of the UN buildings? I thought I heard rockets had been found at one recently?

If on another planet you were a Gazan and those reports start buzzing around, wouldn't you be pretty reluctant to go to a UN shelter, knowing what happened in 2009? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7814054.stm

 

 

The Gaza Strip got a border pass with Egypt. Egypt is not currently being attacked by Hamas and other organizations,

although relationship have gone sour. Still a wee bit better than how things stand between Israel and the Hamas.

The Egyptians could let them in, even as a temporary measure - and yet they choose not to. Somehow not getting anywher

near the flack Israel does.
 

 

 

Egypt is the US and Israeli puppet. Just because they speak Arabic doesn't make them allies of Gazans

 

 

Post removed to permit response.

 

Think again - Egypt is addressing it's own interests, not as a puppet of US/Israel

 

[dexterm]

>>Think again - Egypt is addressing it's own interests, not as a puppet of US/Israel

 

Dictator Mubarak subsidised with $$billions by US = Gaza crossing closed

Muslim Brotherhood (like em or not but democratically elected) = Gaza crossing open

Dictator Sisi subsidised with $$billions by US = Gaza crossing closed