Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

kblaze · July 23, 2014

Wow thats so nice of Israel to "let" Palestinians leave, oh wait! just the ones with foreign passports. Gee what is that .00001%? What about Palestinians in Gaza that have family in the West Bank whom would take them in? Give me a reason other than the vague "security" crutch why they shouldn't be allowed to go to another Palestinian land to flee the violence? Seriously, look at what's happening, a 1000x more powerful country locks down a smaller neighbor, keeps the population from leaving, then bombs it to oblivion. Where else has this happened in history..

Oh and 20 Schools for 1.8 million.

90,000 people per "school". (go ahead cut the numbers by 1/10...its still uninhabitable)

And what about those Gazans that don't trust the security of the UN buildings? I thought I heard rockets had been found at one recently?

If on another planet you were a Gazan and those reports start buzzing around, wouldn't you be pretty reluctant to go to a UN shelter, knowing what happened in 2009? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7814054.stm

Wow, the hypocrisy here is over whelming...

and the misunderstanding of the situation by you is staggering...

Its doesnt matter what Israel will do, you will always have complains, wouldnt you?

When terrorists shoots rockets at Israel, its ok since they are not "sophisticated and deadly"...

when Hamas members kills 3 young men its "not their fault" and Hamas shouldnt be punished collectively...

when Israel retaliate it is a "massacre against civilians"...

When Israel warns the civilians to stay away from the areas they going to bomb, its "not enough" because there is nowhere to go...

when Israel gives Palestinians to leave Gaza if they have foreign passport, its not ok, because its too few...

Well, let me explain to you something, its not Israel who wouldnt let Gazan into west bank, but it is the PLO who are worried of Hamas agents

to come over, and start to take control of the west bank as well...ofcourse they have a good reason to worry since the purification of Gaza in 2007 from PLO activists by throwing them from the roofs...

If Israel is such a powerful country as you claim, and it intent is to exterminate the Palis as you claim, how can you explain they cant get rid of them?

That just doesnt adds up...and the reason is that its just stupid propaganda!

If Israel didnt care for civilians, it could clear all Gaza with bombs from the air-there is no need to risk the lives of troops as it does.

When you hear of Israeli soldiers being killed, it is only because Israel is trying to avoid civilian deaths.

Go have a look at what happens when a military really wants to exterminate the civilians in Syria: 200,000 deaths in 3 years! Thats a genocide!

When about 8,000 Palestinians died since the first intefada in 1987, thats in 27 years!

You want us to take you seriously, really????

I'm getting a little tired of posters attributing things to me THAT I HAVE NEVER SAID. I know spin is a great weapon, but c'mon get your quotes right man.

Tell me where I said rocket attacks are OK.

Tell me where I said the intent of Israel is to exterminate "Palis".

I can take apart nearly everything you said, but I'll just settle for this silly statement;

"Well, let me explain to you something, its not Israel who wouldnt let Gazan into west bank, but it is the PLO who are worried of Hamas agents"

Just read the first sentence.

http://jerusalem.usconsulate.gov/border-crossings.html

Morch · July 23, 2014

How can so many posters here be so stupid!

How can so many be so unfair!

Those bloody Jews refuse to be bombed! They refuse to be killed! They refuse to be thrown into the sea and their country wiped out from the map! They have the audacity to fight back!

600,000 Jews against 6,000,000 Arabs in France. Bomb them, trample them in violent demonstrations, burn their synagogues and deface their graves! French Government knows the numbers...

How many Arabs in England compared to number of Jews is really immaterial. The first victims of British in WWII were not Germans but those same bloody Jews trying to land in Palestine! Why not brush up on your history knowledge?

About 1,500,000 Arabs are living in Israel as free citizens. Never mind this fact. What about poor Arabs in Gaza? They have human rights! To bomb, to kill, to terrorize...

One doesn't have to be a Neo-Nazi or an anti-semite. Or to be one of these Jews. One has to be stupid enough to believe that one day they will not come for YOU!

And if you live far enough to the South - haven't they come for you already? Here, in LOS.

Pardon my political incorrectness.

Well, stop fighting and give peace a chance.

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

PA and all Arab countries in 2002 and 2007 have offered to recognise Israel in secure permanent borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Shalom

That's a link from 2008. It does not mention "indefinite".

Hamas offered a truce, not a peace, and no recognition of Israel.

The offer is more of a temporary break, with the struggle expected to renew when circumstances allow.

There's a difference between Hamas statements for Western ears and those made for local consumption.

There are also usually other conditions attached such as acceptance of the Right of Return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna

As for the peace initiative - it was indeed a missed chance, not much arguing there. Goes to show both sides

aren't quite ready for what it takes.

A few remarks, though:

Hamas rejected the initiative on both occasions, carrying out a mass terror attack on in conjunction with the first

announcement.

The PA is not fully in charge when it comes to the Palestinians, a bit hard to sign a peace deal which might not

hold for all Palestinians.

Lebanon was not, and still is not, capable of upholding any serious peace agreement due to its domestic political

situation.

Currently, Syria and Iraq are not real partners for anything, their very existence being at stake.

TimCM · July 24, 2014

Message of love and peace from Israel parliament member :

'MOTHERS OF ALL PALESTINIANS SHOULD ALSO BE KILLED,' SAYS ISRAELI POLITICIAN

As the situation widely deteriorates in the Gaza Strip, Israeli parliament member and law-maker Ayelet Shaked has stigmatized all Palestinians as terrorists, wishing death on all Palestinians while supporting the Israeli military assault.

On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.

Full Story: http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician

One gets the feeling that Israels only real issue with the behavior of the Nazi's was that it was done to Jews. They also seem to think they are the master race.

I can't wait for the international condemnation of this pathetic excuse for a human, it will be deafening

CBR250 · July 25, 2014

It's not just insane hate-filled politicians that give cause for alarm. The recent deaths of so many Palestinian women and children show that the once admired IDF has become a bunch of hitmen for a government of sociopaths.

ABCer · July 25, 2014

How can so many posters here be so stupid!

How can so many be so unfair!

Those bloody Jews refuse to be bombed! They refuse to be killed! They refuse to be thrown into the sea and their country wiped out from the map! They have the audacity to fight back!

600,000 Jews against 6,000,000 Arabs in France. Bomb them, trample them in violent demonstrations, burn their synagogues and deface their graves! French Government knows the numbers...

How many Arabs in England compared to number of Jews is really immaterial. The first victims of British in WWII were not Germans but those same bloody Jews trying to land in Palestine! Why not brush up on your history knowledge?

About 1,500,000 Arabs are living in Israel as free citizens. Never mind this fact. What about poor Arabs in Gaza? They have human rights! To bomb, to kill, to terrorize...

One doesn't have to be a Neo-Nazi or an anti-semite. Or to be one of these Jews. One has to be stupid enough to believe that one day they will not come for YOU!

And if you live far enough to the South - haven't they come for you already? Here, in LOS.

Pardon my political incorrectness.

Well, stop fighting and give peace a chance.

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

PA and all Arab countries in 2002 and 2007 have offered to recognise Israel in secure permanent borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Shalom

Sorry, dexterm, your offer of 'stop fighting' for a piece of paper signed by whom? Binding on who? Guaranteed by what?

Are you suggesting a Treaty signed by State of Israel with a bunch of terrorists on the loose? And who will put and keep a leash on them?

Besides, your idea of Peace and theirs are far too different. Last time they were heard it was - 'Death, Death, Death!'.

I hope they will get it. Shalom back to you.

BTW, Fire fighters fight fire, Corruption fighters fight corruption, what are the Freedom fighters fight?

CBR250 · July 25, 2014

How can so many posters here be so stupid!

How can so many be so unfair!

Those bloody Jews refuse to be bombed! They refuse to be killed! They refuse to be thrown into the sea and their country wiped out from the map! They have the audacity to fight back!

600,000 Jews against 6,000,000 Arabs in France. Bomb them, trample them in violent demonstrations, burn their synagogues and deface their graves! French Government knows the numbers...

How many Arabs in England compared to number of Jews is really immaterial. The first victims of British in WWII were not Germans but those same bloody Jews trying to land in Palestine! Why not brush up on your history knowledge?

About 1,500,000 Arabs are living in Israel as free citizens. Never mind this fact. What about poor Arabs in Gaza? They have human rights! To bomb, to kill, to terrorize...

One doesn't have to be a Neo-Nazi or an anti-semite. Or to be one of these Jews. One has to be stupid enough to believe that one day they will not come for YOU!

And if you live far enough to the South - haven't they come for you already? Here, in LOS.

Pardon my political incorrectness.

Well, stop fighting and give peace a chance.

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

PA and all Arab countries in 2002 and 2007 have offered to recognise Israel in secure permanent borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Shalom

Sorry, dexterm, your offer of 'stop fighting' for a piece of paper signed by whom? Binding on who? Guaranteed by what?

Are you suggesting a Treaty signed by State of Israel with a bunch of terrorists on the loose? And who will put and keep a leash on them?

Besides, your idea of Peace and theirs are far too different. Last time they were heard it was - 'Death, Death, Death!'.

I hope they will get it. Shalom back to you.

BTW, Fire fighters fight fire, Corruption fighters fight corruption, what are the Freedom fighters fight?

I would like to note my appreciation for your posts. Their absurd comments and obvious hatred helps cement the dawning understanding of many previously non-aligned people that Israel is a rogue state, and its supporters akin to those terrorists from Afghanistan who attacked the USA in 2001. They lack any empathy or concern for innocent civilians, and use distorted logic to justify the murder of innocents.

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

Which ever side your on does not matter, at the moment there is a wholesale slaughter of innocents in Gazza, who have nothing to do with the rockets being fired, or can do anything to stop them

You are right that something have to be done, but i am sure that you agree with me that the "right thing" have to be done.

Lets look at the facts:

1. until 2005 Israel controlled Gaza. It later left it unilaterally.

2. The people of Gaza chose Hamas in democratic elections (which the Americans pushed for, btw)...

3. Hamas took over Gaza, and killed anyone who objected (mostly from the PLO).

4. Hamas is a Jihadist terror organization who clearly calls for the destruction and murder of Israel and Jews.

5. Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel for the past 8 years.

6. Hamas built and store most of its artillery and weaponry inside civilian centers (kindergartens, Mosques, Hospitals).

7. Hamas support a death culture which calls for Shahida (martyrdom).

8. The heads of Hamas became billionaires from tunnel smuggling commodities into Gaza, and donations from Muslims around the world.

9. Hamas was starting to loose the favor of the street, so it kidnapped and murdered 3 young Israeli men.

10. Israel calls for the evacuation of the areas from civilian before they bomb it- Hamas forbid it, and threatens anyone who leaves.

11. Hamas refused all the cease fire proposed by Egypt, and broke the short term Humanitarian cease fires.

12. Hamas cynically uses the death of civilians for propaganda and to steer hate against Israel.

If anyone have any problem with any point i made, i am ready to prove each one of them.

if you consider the fact, you can understand that it is Hamas interest that the Palestinians will continue to die.

The only way for them to have a better life, is to reject Hamas leadership, sit to negotiate peace with Israel.

But Hamas will never willingly go down from power, or let anyone voice its opinion against theirs.

"If anyone have any problem with any point i made, i am ready to prove each one of them"

Oh goodie!

So lets start with number 8! "Hamas billionaires!" wow, I thought I saw a couple extra bearded fellows on the Forbes list this year...didn't realize they were Hamas. Link please.

Next, lets go to number 9! "Hamas kidnapped the 3 young men to gain more favor on the street." This is news to me, I thought all the reports I read detailing how the men were affiliated with Hamas but had no directive from Hamas to kidnap were pretty fishy anyway. Link please.

Finally, Hamas "forbidding" Gazans to evacuate. Now I'm going to ask you the same question I have asked many others (but haven't gotten any responses).

If the Gazans are being held against their will from evacuating, as you imply by using the term "forbid" and "threatened", then that means they are hostages right? And Hamas is the hostage taker?

So it brings up the next question; Would you agree that the IDF is the most inept army in the world that they kill 3 hostages to get to 1 hostage taker (im not even counting injuries)?

sorry it took me so long, but i have real life out there...

anyway, lets continue where we left off..

but you have to agree with me that you will not repeat a subject once we cleared it already...ok?

If you requesting to start from no. 8, i guess you agree with 1 until 7, but its not clear to me why you continue to argue, due to the nature of 4 and 6...

8. Hamas leaders becomes billionaires - source for the info:

Here you can find a mentioning of numerous newspapers with articles on the subject, you can enter them from this main article:

http://www.thetower.org/0707-while-gazans-suffer-in-poverty-leaders-of-hamas-live-in-luxury/

9.hamas started to loose favor of the street:

Hamas cant pay salaries to 46,000 governmental employees (notice the date is 2'nd FEB), and loosing popularity:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/02/hamas-gaza-salaries-payments-siege.html

and on 3'rd MAR:

http://news.yahoo.com/gaza-public-workers-hamas-not-paying-salaries-141223805.html

and on 3'rd MAR:

http://news.yahoo.com/gaza-public-workers-hamas-not-paying-salaries-141223805.html

kidnapping 3 young men:

the 3 kidnappers and their connection to Hamas:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-names-suspects-in-kidnapping-of-three-teens/

After the prisoners swap of Gilad Shalit, 1 Israeli soldier for 1,000 Palestinians, Hamas got greedier and wanted to release other prisoners or gain lever on Israel for additional demands. Hamas issued an order to capture more Israelis, but the operation went wrong and they killed the kids.

It is true that usually Hamas admits of kidnapping someone, but this time since it went wrong, they couldnt gain anything by it, but exactly the opposite-it would awaken Israel's wrath. That is why they kept quite this time.

Some of the information was attained by intelligence work, so not all the information could be revealed to the large audience. That information was revealed to US and European leaders, including UN Secretery General Ban Kimoon, as he testified by his words:

“I have just seen myself, with the Prime Minister, all kinds of rockets fired by Hamas onto the heads of these people and neighborhoods of where many people are living. This is quite shocking. And I have seen all these photos and videos and evidences myself. “

and:

“We’ll not forget the killing and abduction of Eyal Yifrach, Gilad Shaer and Naftaly Frankel. I was deeply moved by the words of Rachel Frankel…”

Here is the full speech:

http://israelforeignaffairs.com/pm-netanyahus-remarks-meeting-un-secretary-general-ban-ki-moon/

Also, in a speech Khaled Mashal gave 1 month ago, he clearly hinted to the kidnapping:

"I say to those prisoners, that their message of Hunger and Manhood has arrived. And you my brother, Hasan Salame, the great hero, your message has arrived. You will receive an answer from your nation and your people, the Az Adin El Kasaam brigades, and the resistance know the way to free prisoners."

Hasan Salame is the head of Hamas militant arm in the west bank territories.

i dont have the speech in English, only in Arabic:

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4531872,00.html

10. Hamas forbids citizens from leaving their home:

Some people are being held against their will, but some also a willing hostage and a human shield. In the atmosphere of Islamic Jihad, you dont want to be a traitor, so even if you think differently, you cant express it, as in many other dictatorial regimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJlG3KXq8c

for the rest of your question, are you serious? maybe we need to wait for you to rescue those hostages mr. Rambo...

This isnt some movie with super heros- IDF is one of the best armies there, check about entebbe operation. no army in the world pulled such operations.

The people of Gaza chose Hamas in free elections, so they are also a part of the problem-they are brainwashed for 70 years that they can destroy Israel, so we cant help them much, but to take Hamas down.

CBR250 · July 25, 2014

If the IDF is one of the best armies in the Middle East then heaven help all of those innocents in Gaza. Either the deaths of Gazan civilians is the result of the IDF's indiscriminate actions, which constitutes a war crime, or the IDF is monumentally inept. You can't have it both ways.

And many more deaths likely in coming days. The Gazan population has now be herded by the Israelis into a little over half of the land mass of Gaza. Gaza was already the most densely populated piece of land on the planet. People in the west often imagine houses in Gaza and life there as being somewhat similar to our own. It isn't. Some houses - small by our standards, house 40 or so people as civilians flee areas under attack and crowd into homes of friends and relatives. Even in good times the poverty of Gaza means that small houses may contin 10-15 occupants. No wonder that when a house is bombed or shelled there are so many deaths and casualties.

Ulysses G. · July 25, 2014

If the IDF is one of the best armies in the Middel East then heaven help all of those innocents in Gaza. Either the deaths of Gazan civilians is the result of the IDF's indiscriminate actions, which constitutes a war crime, or the IDF is monumentally inept. You can't have it both ways.

You seem to be ignoring that fact that Hamas is purposely using them as human shields. The best army in the world - and the IDF is one of them - can not avoid civilian deaths under those circumstances. Their blood is on Hamas' head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y

dexterm · July 25, 2014

If the IDF is one of the best armies in the Middel East then heaven help all of those innocents in Gaza. Either the deaths of Gazan civilians is the result of the IDF's indiscriminate actions, which constitutes a war crime, or the IDF is monumentally inept. You can't have it both ways.

You seem to be ignoring that fact that Hamas purposely using them as human shields. The best army in the world - and the IDF is one of them - can not avoid civilian deaths under those circumstances. Their blood is on Hamas' head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y

Prove it by presenting evidence to a UN investigation.

Nah... better to stay with Mark Regev's fantasy.

Israel would have much more credibility if they occasionally told the truth.

Ulysses G. · July 25, 2014

Prove it by presenting evidence to a UN investigation.

Yeah. What an honest crew they are.

Between 2006 when the UN’s so-called Human Right Council was established until 2013, the “humanitarians” on the council condemned Israel 45 times. In fact, it passed almost as many resolutions condemning Israel as it did for the rest of the world – combined. And just the other day the Human Rights Council voted to set up a war crimes inquiry regarding the fighting in Gaza. Technically, the Council will look into crimes on both sides, but who are we kidding? - See more at: http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/israel-united-nations-crosshairs/?utm_source=BernardGoldberg.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=9b34988da1-NEWSLETTER&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c1903183b6-9b34988da1-298481249#sthash.uPPpy4TZ.dpuf

JohnnyJazz · July 25, 2014

Here is a video that explains what Netanyahu thinks of the american government (basically a bunch of idiot he can easily maneuver, his own words) and how he broke the Oslo accords

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-5hUG6Os68

Thorgal · July 25, 2014

Prove it by presenting evidence to a UN investigation.

Yeah. What an honest crew they are.

Between 2006 when the UN’s so-called Human Right Council was established until 2013, the “humanitarians” on the council condemned Israel 45 times. In fact, it passed almost as many resolutions condemning Israel as it did for the rest of the world – combined. And just the other day the Human Rights Council voted to set up a war crimes inquiry regarding the fighting in Gaza. Technically, the Council will look into crimes on both sides, but who are we kidding? - See more at: [url="http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/israel-united-nations-crosshairs/?utm_source=BernardGoldberg.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=9b34988da1-NEWSLETTER&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c1903183b6-9b34988da1-298481249#sthash.uPPpy4TZ.dpuf"]http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/israel-united-nations-crosshairs/?utm_source=BernardGoldberg.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=9b34988da1-NEWSLETTER&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c1903183b6-9b34988da1-298481249#sthash.uPPpy4TZ.dpuf

45 times and still in war...

Do they care for nr. 46 ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

We should be able to by now to find better ways of dealing with issues than this. Yes Hamas are a nut group but so is Israels consistant response and its lack of will to find a solution or allow things to progress, The US is absolutely part of this by backing Israel 100% when its in the wrong.. It knows it can get away with it.

Dont worry, i dont call you Anti Semite, but i will call you a "useful idiot", and again im not mocking you. It is a term used by the soviets to describe their supporters in the west.

You are with your posts support Hamas, while their leaders let their people be killed, and sit in far away Qatar, starting a new real estate project worth billions, which they stole/ earned due to this conflict (khaled Mashel if you are wondering who), and that is thanks to people like you.

So you are not helping the Gazans, you just contributing to the continuation of this statuesque...

See folks, no matter what, if you are against Israel's actions, you MUST be supporting Hamas.

Yes, you are supporting Hamas "with your posts" by supporting its objectives, and let me elaborate:

I do not know who are you and what is your background, and i dont blame you to be a terrorist like Hamas, not at all...

But i do blame you for supporting Hamas objectives and falling for their scheme, and it doesnt matter if its knowingly or innocently.

Hamas is an Islamist Jihadist organization (which btw, doesnt represent all Palestinians). The war in Gaza is with Hamas mostly, not with the PLO (another Pali organization).

Hamas wants as many casualties as possible in this conflict. It doesnt care if more Palis will die because according to their philosophy, they will become Shahids.

Shahida is a kind of martyrdom, where one give his life for the advancement of Islam.

They consider it as a straight ticket to heaven, and they brainwashed the Pali, that because they are in the position to reach Shahida, they are blessed people!

Ofcourse not all believe so, but under Islamist Jihadist control, you cant go out and say you are against it, if you value your life or family.

Another reason they want as many deaths as possible, is to defame Israel's name in the international community.

They will constantly instigate conflicts and fighting while crying to be the underdog...waiting for the international community to restrain Israel, until next time.

You by not understanding this situation, fall as a ripe fruit to their propaganda.

Everybody knows very well that Israel or any other country cannot accept rockets fired into its territory, also Hamas.

The only way to stop this is to stop supporting Hamas, and take down their rule over Palestinians.

If Hamas will not fall this time, there will be another time, and another time, and the bodies will keep piling up on, because they cant really win in this kind of conflict with Israel.

We have to make sure, that they can understand it, and stop believing Hamas promises for victory.

Hamas doesnt give a damn about human rights, exactly the opposite, he thinks this is the west and Israel weak point, and that is were it is trying to win.

Human Rights are against Islam: they cant accept equal rights to women, and cant accept equal rights to other religions.

If the tables would have turned, they wouldnt spare a single Israeli baby, they would slaughter everyone, just like their friends are doing in Syria right now.

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

"Hamas stop them leaving."

Ok so it sounds like Hamas is holding the people of Gaza hostage?

So Israel is killing 3+ hostages to kill one hostage-taker?

Interesting

You still dont get it, dont you?

There is no one that stands with a board and a chalk and makes the tally here...

There is also no one and no way to control the situation, this is a war.

Everybody knows how it starts, but nobody knows how it ends...

It is a chaotic situation, with new sometimes unpredictable situations everyday.

Israel or any other nation can try 100% to try avoid civilian casualties, but there is no way it can be done, especially in Gaza.

Can you bring me an example of a war with no casualties (not talking about the cold war ofcourse)?

- Yes, actually, there are numerous international organizations such as the UN, with people in hospitals, counting bodies.

- War can be controlled by those waging it.

- Yes, no one knows how it ends.

- Yes, it is chaotic, unpredictable.

- Um, ok.

- A war with no casualties? You mean no civilian casualties? I have no idea.

No you didnt understand me, i mean Israel doesnt stand and count civilian deaths and think it is considered success.

Yes, Gazans are used as human shield by Hamas, but some of them willingly, and some just because they just cant say no.

If you raise a kid teaching him to hate Israelis and that dying for Islam is the best thing for him, and that kid protects a terrorist with his body,

do you consider him an hostage or not, i dont know the right term for it.

Again, war cannot be controlled by those who wage it.

Israel doesnt know if this can develope into a war with Hizbollah.

Hamas doesnt know when Israel will stop, and under what conditions.

They are all speculating, but non of them know when and how it will end.

But i promise you one thing, the moment it will end, Hamas will come out of the holes he is hiding in, and say they got

a "great victory", even through they might be more than 1,000 casualties.

CBR250 · July 25, 2014

No, this won't end. Hamas won't be able to claim victory. Nor will Israel. A thousand years from now the Israelis and Palestinians will still be kiiling each other. A happy thought, huh? I'm glad that my family doesn't live there, I would hate for my children and grandchildren to have to spend their lives with insecurity and hatred because of the insane metaphysical beliefs of some sociopathic old men. And be surrounded by people - from both sides - who feel proud that they have murdered innocent women and children.

Face the facts - your decendants in 100 generations, should they live in Israel, will still be dying and suffering constant anxiety.

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

But my question to you is why "you been touched" by the death of Palestinian children, but you never "been touched" by the death of Syrian children? in Syria about 200,000 people have died until now, from that about 11,000 children, and that in 3 years!

Is the death of Syrian children doesnt "touch you"? even when hundreds were gassed and tortured to death?

That is compared to about 8,000 Palestinians dead since 1987 due to the conflict in Israel, thats in 27 years!

What about the 300 school girls who were kidnapped by Boko Haram in Nigeria and are said to be sold as sex slaves? or the more than 2,000 people, women and children they killed? that "didnt touch" you?

If it did, can you point me to the comments you posted back then?

Why do some people like football and some like rugby? Why do some want to visit Italy, but not Germany? Why do some read Hunter S. Thompson while others read William S. Burroughs?

The human life doesn't give us enough time to do everything. We pick and choose. Everyday. Does it mean "you dont care" about the other things happening in the world? No. Why do people pick and choose the things they care about? Its different in every.single.case.

oh i see,

So you dont like to shout fault when children are dying in Syria, but you like to shout fault when Palestinian children die.

What about when Palestinian children die at the hand of other Muslims?

Do you shout fault then? i doubt it as well...

I guess it is only when Jews doing it, it bothers you!

I guess it doesnt matter that if you shout fault when Syrian children die,you can save 11,000 children, much more than the number of Palestinian children...

One thing i agree with you, the reason is different for each one:

1. some because the Jews killed Jesus 2,000 years ago to their perception.

2. some because the Jews didnt accept Muhammad and converted to Islam.

3. some because the Jews took a land that belong to Islam, and such land cant be returned.

4. some because Israel is the only thing that stop them from building a new Muslim empire that will stretch from Turkey to Nigeria.

5. some because they cant stand the guilt of what has done by their people to the Jews in the past, so making them look bad, makes them feel better.

6. some because they cant hurt USA so they hurt its allies.

so many reasons...

englishoak · July 25, 2014

Think you'll find most regular decent people condemn killing of women and children whoever does it and whoever are the victims.

It is false to suggest its anything for most but simply a natural reaction when innocents and those unable to defend themselves are killed.

There is no defence no matter who the aggressor is, whatever race, whatever nation, whatever religion, it is wrong and disgusting to most. People do not like to see civilian casualties, period.

It just happens to be Israel as the main aggressor and the more people try to justify so many children and civilian injuries and deaths the less support Israel will continue to enjoy or indeed be surprised or sympathetic when there is blowback. This would be both unfortunate and sad but as we know all too well from history when a bully eventually gets taken down a peg or two then the usual reaction is one of apathy and people tend to be unsurprised and often even unsympathetic. In Israel's case not because most normal people are Anti Semitic but because its simply wrong and they tend to have long memories and understand what goes around often comes around.

And yes if this were the British instead of Israel acting in this manner I would be ashamed of Britain and also outraged ( as I am for many things Britain has done and continues to at times ) whether I were myself British or considered Britain an ally.

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

The usual Islam haters are out in force, I see.

Can one of you please explain how atrocities committed in, for example, Nigeria justifies the bombing of women and children in Gaza.

There is an obvious split in the posters here.

On the one side there are those who abhor atrocities committed by Muslim terrorists but defend those committed by the IDF.

On the other are those who abhor all atrocities, no matter who commits them.

We are against Islamist Jihadists,

If you are a Muslim that doesnt blow people up, or supporting those that do, we have no problem with you, Ramadan Karim.

The mentioning of the atrocities that are done by Jihadist Muslims are not to justify any killings else where.

They serve as an examination of the biased opinion against Israel.

The point is that atrocities much worse than the ones happening to the Palestinians, happens all the time, and usually by the same people who criticize Israel, but they dont get half of the attention and criticizing.

This is just to explain that there is an unfair biased attitude towards Israel.

The deaths of civilians are unfortunate on both sides, but you have to understand that they are cause due to collateral damage or the use of them as human shields by Hamas, and due to Hamas own refusal to accept any cease fire proposed, which could have stopped the conflict.

deon40 · July 25, 2014

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/21/hospital-hamas-isreal-hiding-among-civilians

In a hospital. At the beach. Hamas, Israel tells us, is hiding among civilians

According to Israel, Hamas is cowardly and cynical

Comment is free

In a hospital. At the beach. Hamas, Israel tells us, is hiding among civilians

According to Israel, Hamas is cowardly and cynical

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- Richard Seymour
- theguardian.com, Monday 21 July 2014 17.18 BST
- Jump to comments (1061)

Two Palestinian girls run past a damaged ambulance in Gaza on Sunday. Photograph: Oliver Weiken/EPA

They hid at the El-Wafa hospital.

They hid at the Al-Aqsa hospital.

They hid at the beach, where children played football.

They hid at the yard of 75-year-old Muhammad Hamad.

They hid among the residential quarters of Shujaya.

They hid in the neighbourhoods of Zaytoun and Toffah.

They hid in Rafah and Khan Younis.

They hid in the home of the Qassan family.

They hid in the home of the poet, Othman Hussein.

They hid in the village of Khuzaa.

They hid in the thousands of houses damaged or destroyed.

They hid in 84 schools and 23 medical facilities.

They hid in a cafe, where Gazans were watching the World Cup.

They hid in the ambulances trying to retrieve the injured.

They hid themselves in 24 corpses, buried under rubble.

They hid themselves in a young woman in pink household slippers, sprawled on the pavement, taken down while fleeing.

They hid themselves in two brothers, eight and four, lying in the intensive burn care unit in Al-Shifa.

They hid themselves in the little boy whose parts were carried away by his father in a plastic shopping bag.

They hid themselves in the “incomparable chaos of bodies” arriving at Gaza hospitals.

They hid themselves in an elderly woman, lying in a pool of blood on a stone floor.

Hamas, they tell us, is cowardly and cynical.

Jingthing · July 25, 2014

...

Face the facts - your decendants in 100 generations, should they live in Israel, will still be dying and suffering constant anxiety.

Nothing to be done then.

The Oracle of Thaivisa has proclaimed it. It shall be so!

100 generations?

Now, that's major league tripping.

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

Letter from Gaza by a Norwegian doctor

Dearest friends,

The last night was extreme. The "ground invasion" of Gaza resulted in scores and carloads with maimed, torn apart, bleeding, shivering, dying - all sorts of injured Palestinians, all ages, all civilians, all innocent. The heroes in the ambulances and in all of Gaza's hospitals are working 12-24 hour shifts, grey from fatigue and inhuman workloads (without payment all in Shifa for the last 4 months), they care, triage, try to understand the incomprehensible chaos of bodies, sizes, limbs, walking, not walking, breathing, not breathing, bleeding, not bleeding humans. HUMANS! Now, once more treated like animals by "the most moral army in the world" (sic!). -

See more at: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12920-letter-from-gaza-by-a-norwegian-doctor

What? Mad Mads again?!?!

When i saw this letter it sounded suspiciously familiar to me!

also in operation cast led in 2008 and operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, he published similar statements, which made a lot of turmoil...

BUT a closer inspection of this guys history shows that he is a Leftist Maoist Extremist! he is an active member of Norway's Red Party who always support Palestinians.

How can someone who support Chairman Mao, who murdered 45 million of his people, be considered a humanist?

Here what he said about 9/11 :

“The oppressed also have a moral right to attack the USA with any weapon they can come up with.” the Norwegien Daily Dagbladet:

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2001/09/30/284907.html

Also said:

"I am upset by the terrorist attack, but I am at least as upset over the suffering that the US has caused." and When asked if he supported a terrorist attack against the US he answered: "Terror is a poor weapon, but my answer is yes, within the context I have mentioned."

He never went to help anyone except the Palestinians, and never answered why he doesnt go to help the Syrian people...

You can read more on: Mads Gilbert on Wikipedia, and here:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/07/15/a-maoist-in-gaza/

Again, Hamas propaganda in its finest!

DPIZZA · July 25, 2014

Message of love and peace from Israel parliament member :

'MOTHERS OF ALL PALESTINIANS SHOULD ALSO BE KILLED,' SAYS ISRAELI POLITICIAN

As the situation widely deteriorates in the Gaza Strip, Israeli parliament member and law-maker Ayelet Shaked has stigmatized all Palestinians as terrorists, wishing death on all Palestinians while supporting the Israeli military assault.

On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.

Full Story: http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician

Tell me how can you misquote something that you write by yourself, huh?

THE FLAMBOYENT BIG HEADINGS SAYS: "'MOTHERS OF ALL PALESTINIANS SHOULD ALSO BE KILLED,' SAYS ISRAELI POLITICIAN"

but if you read on, she said: " includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons...They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists" and " This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists,"

WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT!

i agree with her that a mother who teaches her son to be a terrorist is a terrorist as well.

Here are examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=XELcNMhkKCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytX-DI_jwwI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

Ulysses G. · July 26, 2014

No, this won't end. Hamas won't be able to claim victory. Nor will Israel.

Thanks for giving us your prediction, Swami.

beechguy · July 26, 2014

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/21/hospital-hamas-isreal-hiding-among-civilians
In a hospital. At the beach. Hamas, Israel tells us, is hiding among civilians
According to Israel, Hamas is cowardly and cynical

Comment is free

In a hospital. At the beach. Hamas, Israel tells us, is hiding among civilians

According to Israel, Hamas is cowardly and cynical

Share 17213

inShare11

Email

Richard Seymour

theguardian.com, Monday 21 July 2014 17.18 BST

Jump to comments (1061)

Two Palestinian girls run past a damaged ambulance in Gaza on Sunday. Photograph: Oliver Weiken/EPA

They hid at the El-Wafa hospital.

They hid at the Al-Aqsa hospital.

They hid at the beach, where children played football.

They hid at the yard of 75-year-old Muhammad Hamad.

They hid among the residential quarters of Shujaya.

They hid in the neighbourhoods of Zaytoun and Toffah.

They hid in Rafah and Khan Younis.

They hid in the home of the Qassan family.

They hid in the home of the poet, Othman Hussein.

They hid in the village of Khuzaa.

They hid in the thousands of houses damaged or destroyed.

They hid in 84 schools and 23 medical facilities.

They hid in a cafe, where Gazans were watching the World Cup.

They hid in the ambulances trying to retrieve the injured.

They hid themselves in 24 corpses, buried under rubble.

They hid themselves in a young woman in pink household slippers, sprawled on the pavement, taken down while fleeing.

They hid themselves in two brothers, eight and four, lying in the intensive burn care unit in Al-Shifa.

They hid themselves in the little boy whose parts were carried away by his father in a plastic shopping bag.

They hid themselves in the “incomparable chaos of bodies” arriving at Gaza hospitals.

They hid themselves in an elderly woman, lying in a pool of blood on a stone floor.

Hamas, they tell us, is cowardly and cynical.

It's unfortunate, but called war, if you(your government) don't want it, don't ask for it.

Ulysses G. · July 26, 2014

It's unfortunate, but called war, if you(your government) don't want it, don't ask for it.

The Palestinian people elected a terrorist group to represent them. Just what did they think was going to happen?

CBR250 · July 26, 2014

...

Face the facts - your decendants in 100 generations, should they live in Israel, will still be dying and suffering constant anxiety.

Nothing to be done then.

The Oracle of Thaivisa has proclaimed it. It shall be so!

100 generations?

Now, that's major league tripping.

Come back in 100 generations and you will, sadly, see I am indeed the Oracle. Glad that you have managed to push your neurone hard enough to finally recognise my true nature. Tributes are accepted. See my agent.

Of course I don't want this. But the dominance of right wing Zionist Jews for the past 30 years, and now the vindictive terror being inflicted on Palestinians in both the West Bank, and particularly Gaza, means that peace is receding ever further into an already distant future. The actions of the Israeli government over the past few weeks has reinforced the already difficult legacy of hatred and revenge - on both sides. Do you really think that people forget so easily? Do you honestly expect that Jews will forget the Holocaust? Well, for many Palestinians, this their Holocaust, when their property was destroyed or stolen, their children and other innocents killed by those intent on thieving land, their lives oppressed in humiliating ways each day by a vindictive and far superior military presence. No, they won't forget easily.

Ulysses G. · July 26, 2014

...

Face the facts - your decendants in 100 generations, should they live in Israel, will still be dying and suffering constant anxiety.

Nothing to be done then.
The Oracle of Thaivisa has proclaimed it. It shall be so!
100 generations?
Now, that's major league tripping.

Come back in 100 generations and you will, sadly, see I am indeed the Oracle.

All one has to do is read your posts on Thai Visa to know that you are no "Oracle". You don't even get it right about what is going on right now or in recent history.

Ulysses G. · July 26, 2014

As per usual, there are lots of neo-Nazis and other anti-Semitic, hate groups out there fueling these things.

Neo-Nazis take centre stage at London anti-Israel protests

Prominent Holocaust deniers took centre stage during recent anti-Israel demonstrations in London, where participants included such prominent neo-Nazis as James Thring and Lady Michèle Renouf, as well as members of the far-Right Neturei Karta sect. The protest was organised by a variety of far-Left and extreme Islamist organisations, including War on Want, Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War Coalition, Islamic Forum of Europe, British Muslim Initiative, Palestinian Forum in Britain and Friends of Al Aqsa
http://standforpeace...srael-protests/

According to the Rundschau, student organization Left-SDS, Islamists and some members of the Neo-Nazi group National Socialists Rhein-Main attended the anti-Israel protest. Flags from Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Hamas were on display at the protest.
http://www.jpost.com...peration-362742

http://standforpeace...srael-protests/

Never realized how popular Neo-Nazism is in London and Paris.

Not just London and Paris.

As the fight in Gaza wears on, anti-Semites across Europe are attacking the continent’s Jews under the pretext of protesting Israel’s politics.Since the beginning of the current war between Israel and Hamas, eight synagogues in France have been attacked. In Turkey, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has asked for Jews to apologize for the actions of the Jewish state. In Germany, a prominent Muslim imam gave a sermon asking Allah to kill all of the “Zionist Jews.”
The atmosphere in Europe since the beginning of the war has been so toxic that the foreign ministers of France, Italy, and Germany on Tuesday issued a rare joint statement condemning anti-Semitism at pro-Palestinian demonstrations.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/25/europe-s-jews-blamed-for-israel-s-war.html

DPIZZA · July 26, 2014

Letter from Gaza by a Norwegian doctor

Dearest friends,

The last night was extreme. The "ground invasion" of Gaza resulted in scores and carloads with maimed, torn apart, bleeding, shivering, dying - all sorts of injured Palestinians, all ages, all civilians, all innocent. The heroes in the ambulances and in all of Gaza's hospitals are working 12-24 hour shifts, grey from fatigue and inhuman workloads (without payment all in Shifa for the last 4 months), they care, triage, try to understand the incomprehensible chaos of bodies, sizes, limbs, walking, not walking, breathing, not breathing, bleeding, not bleeding humans. HUMANS! Now, once more treated like animals by "the most moral army in the world" (sic!). -

See more at: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12920-letter-from-gaza-by-a-norwegian-doctor

These innocent civilians (months ago) should have been trying to convince those Hamas 'freedom fighters' that indiscriminately shooting hundreds and thousands of rockets with explosive warheads into Israel was not a way to show peaceful intentions.

Just a little historical reminder.

Ardeatine massacre

The Fosse Ardeatine massacre (Italian: Eccidio delle Fosse Ardeatine) was a mass killing carried out in Rome on 24 March 1944 by German occupation troops during the Second World War as a reprisal for a partisan attack conducted on the previous day in central Rome against the SS Police Regiment Bozen.

............

They agreed that the execution of ten Italians for each German policeman killed was a suitable ratio. Mälzer, who also proposed burning down part of Rome, passed this on to General Eberhard von Mackensen, the commander of the Fourteenth Army, whose jurisdiction included Rome. General Mackensen endorsed the recommendation. In turn, the staff of the German Commander-in-Chief South (Oberbefehlshaber Süd), passed this on to the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW). That night, Adolf Hitler authorized the reprisal, stipulating that it be carried out within 24 hours.

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeatine_massacre}

What exactly do you want to say?

Is that also the fault of Israel or the Jews?

Do we need an historical reminder what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis, or what was the position of the Arabs in the war?

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