Would You Send Your Kids To An EP?

[Neeranam]

If you have kids of your own would you send your kids to an EP?

I have one teenager in a Thai program and one in a semi EP which is a total waste of cash - one hour a day, sometimes from a native speaker. She'll be moving next year.

I've worked in EPs in Bangkok and they were pretty bad 20 years ago with most schools taking on any white face.. They surely have improved a bit by now but probably not where I live in Isarn.

My kids can speak English already so I don't want them to be taught by any non - NES. or taught core subjects like Chemi, Maths, Physics by someone without a degree in that subject.

If you would why?

[SlyAnimal]

I don't have kids yet, so will cross that bridge when I come to it, however I believe that I would put them into the English Program.

Primarily because it's where the rich kids go lol.

Which initially sounds like a pretty lame reason, until you remember that the kids in the normal program usually have parents who often don't care about their kids education (Because often the parents didn't have an education, and therefore think that it's that important, whereas most rich people had a good education, and believe that it's not just important, but essential). This is then usually reflected by their kids not caring about their education, and spending all of their time just clowning around in class.

Admittedly, the streamed classes are a little bit better, so if I had kids and they were going to be in a good class, then I'd probably be happy with the Thai section classes.

As although of course I'd want to instil the importance of education into my kids, and encourage them to do their homework and pay attention inclass etc, it's not just upto me. As they'll look at what their friends are doing, and that will impact on them too. If their friends think that doing homework is for losers, then my kids might not care as much about homework, likewise if their friends thing that staring out the window is more fun than paying attention in class, then chances are my kids will also do the same (at least sometimes anyway). Then when they get outside of school, if my kids friends think that it's cool to mod their motorcycles and do wheelies, or goto mor lum concerts and fight with the rivals schools, then chances are that my kids will also think that this is pretty cool.

By comparison, if their friends come from good families who care about their education, then chances are that the parents values will be reflected in their kids (Just as I hope my values will be reflected in my kids). So it's then less likely that they'll feel the inclination to do all of the stupid stuff which the kids in the Thai section do.

Also the rich kids are probably going to do extra camps and stuff which the regular kids don't get to do. They will also potentially have the means to travel or similar, so would be more likely to relate to my kids, and my kids might not feel like "The odd one out" because they're the only kid from a wealthy family in their class.

Although as I said, the good kids in the Thai section are usually streamed into the same class, so if I knew my kids were going to go into there, then I wouldn't feel the need for an English program.

That's my 2c

[Scott]

I would not put my child in an EP program unless I had a plan to send them to University overseas. If the plan is for them to remain in Thailand, then a Thai education, with a strong (very strong) English component is probably the route to go. A bilingual school would be a good option, allowing the choice of study in either language.

I would also not send my child to an EP program if they were a native Thai speaker and had learning difficulties. Children who are not very bright tend to get lost when learning in two languages. Of course, if you plan to resettle in a country where English is the primary language then go for the EP program and forget about any emphasis on Thai.

[lostinisaan]

That's indeed a very good and valid question. I'd send my kids to an EP, but only if I would know how they're being taught and by whom.

Times are changing, so do schools. One example a school in lower northeast. Before having a real good reputation, when each class had a native English speaker, teaching all subjects at primary level.

The majority of them were really good in English and all subjects were also taught in English.

But now having a new director, ALL has changed. The "ordinary" program is occupied by an agency.

12 classes in the EP, but only four native English speakers.

So they only get an hour!! per week of conversational English, one hour grammar, one hour health and one in computer, taught by an NES. That’s not an EP anymore…………….

The other subjects are taught by Asian teachers. The new science teacher could not have a simple conversation in English. So how do you teach science then?

A good example is also the son of my ex- assistant director. This guy was in M.4, after finishing Prathom one to six in an EP, as well.

Had the “good luck to tutor him for a while, he didn't understand easiest questions. Hi sister, already in M.6, but in the ordinary program, had the same problem.

And daddy had to pay really good money. Almost unbelievable.

Zero English speaking skills. Not able to understand simple questions.

I’d only send them to a “functioning EP”, but would do my homework, before paying a lot of money for stuff my kids will never use.

Edited July 27, 2014 by lostinisaan

[BruceMangosteen]

I’d only send them to a “functioning EP”, but would do my homework, before paying a lot of money for stuff my kids will never use.

No parent does their homework as far as I can tell. Teachers are hired and if a parent questions the qualifications the Director and English Department Head lose face. As you must have learned by now, face is more important than the actual qualifications and ability of the teacher to speak English not to mention, teach it to children who as you also indicate you know, have little to almost no English abilities and skills to begin with. The promotional material indicate "Native English Speakers" teaching etc. but the truth lies way on the other side of that parameter or measure. It's a cruel world out here in Thai schools. Face and obedience come long before and ahead of learning real native English in any subject or the English language itself. Lack of care about teaching aides such as mentioned, cables and microphones are only the beginning of a long list. All that said, I guess one could ask is it "better" than being in the Thai program? On balance, maybe yes, it is.

[lostinisaan]

I’d only send them to a “functioning EP”, but would do my homework, before paying a lot of money for stuff my kids will never use.

No parent does their homework as far as I can tell. Teachers are hired and if a parent questions the qualifications the Director and English Department Head lose face. As you must have learned by now, face is more important than the actual qualifications and ability of the teacher to speak English not to mention, teach it to children who as you also indicate you know, have little to almost no English abilities and skills to begin with. The promotional material indicate "Native English Speakers" teaching etc. but the truth lies way on the other side of that parameter or measure. It's a cruel world out here in Thai schools. Face and obedience come long before and ahead of learning real native English in any subject or the English language itself. Lack of care about teaching aides such as mentioned, cables and microphones are only the beginning of a long list. All that said, I guess one could ask is it "better" than being in the Thai program? On balance, maybe yes, it is.

Some parents seem to do their homework and all the native English speakers of a school were interviewed by the parents.

First question to the “computer literate” with his missing chin. “How old are you?” Answer: “I’m 20.”

Next parent: “Do you have a degree, then?” Answer: “No, but I’m Celta certified.”

Adding that he’d have “a few years of teaching experience didn’t seem to help him.

You’re right that the majority are too busy with not losing face, but some wealthy guys who put their kids into EP’s do know the difference between a fool and a King.

Yes, all the non-functioning computer, software, non-existing Antivirus programs on pirated software, plus the extraordinary wiring systems and not, or poorly maintenance does create a headache for all of us involved.

I was the one at my former school who kept all the machines running. The benefits of an EP usually are more English being taught by a NES, air-conditioned classrooms, less students, etc. which should “create” better students. But the truth is sometimes different.

There might be ordinary schools with better English teaching results than some Eps have.

But that’s not going to work out, if the director’s only thinking about his own wallet, might be pretty much contrary to what parents, foreign teachers and some kids want.

[BAYBOY]

Interesting topic.

Last year we had the choice of sending our son to first year High School. Our choice was of 3 schools. One with a EP section, and the other 2 local Govt. High Schools.

We decided on the school with the EP. The classrooms for the EP were all brand new, had touch screen blackboards, air con, excellent library, top Computer room, small classes of 24 students, very impressive to say the least.

Four subjects English, Maths, Science, Computers taught in English by a native speaker, assisted by a Thai teacher. Included in the fee were extra classes in the 4 subjects taught on a Saturday by the Thai Teacher in Thai. This was so if the children had failed to understand the English speaking teacher during the week,they then could ask the Thai teacher to explain.

My son speaks very good English, he got 100% in the Pratom 6 ONett the previous year. Like some previous posters we felt English immersion at this stage of his education would be of benefit in his future. We hold hopes he may go on to University in New Zealand, as he is a New Zealand citizen.

I should point out that I am a teacher at the primary school my son attended, and that 7 of his classmates also enrolled in this schools EP.

First weeks of school went well, he was in a couple of speech contests and got First in one and third in an other. School was good, and he found being taught in English not a problem. It seemed we had done the right thing.

After the first Term I was concerned that he never seemed to have homework, his learning interest was less and the initial fun in being in the EP classes had gone. In November last year my wife and I went to the school to find out what was happening. We came away very disappointed with the EP classes and how they were run.

1) No homework. Homework was given out on most days, but the children were told to do it in one of their free periods at school. Result confirmed by the teachers every one copied from the best student. No action was taken as the teachers were happy with that.

2) the teachers knew that the students used their cell phones in class to watch face book, send photos to each other, play games etc. the teachers said that it was hard to control as the students could switch from Facebook to the dictionary in a flash as the teacher approached them.

The Maths teacher acknowledged that there was no writing down by the children as what he wrote on the blackboard as they all would photo the blackboard when he finished!!!.

3) the Thai assistant teachers did not speak good English and most of the students could not cope and understand the lessons. The English teacher said that my son did the translating for her Classes as the Thai assistant teacher was not good.

The Saturday classes were mainly a waste of time. One Saturday my son and the other boys played football all day. The girls played their phones

4) knowing several of the EP students as I had taught them at primary level, it was interesting to have a conversation with them when I saw them at the school or out of it. Their level of ability to talk was much less than when I had taught them. My wife and I had also taught most of them at our extra classes on Saturday mornings when they were at primary school. Both my wife and I could not work out why the levels of conversation had fallen so badly. Had to be down to the poor English teaching in the EP. Once the opening expressions were said that was it. Ask a question and get a mumbled answer.

5) the EP classes were given a higher level in the schools standing. The EP students numbered 130 in M1, M2, M3, and the schools general roll was 3500. The summer camp for EP cost 2500 baht (2nights) and the general School camp 2 nights was 1000baht. The children were perceived by their peers to be from very rich families.

We asked if our son could be transferred from the EP class to the normal class and were told no way at all. The normal classes were over full? and no room available. He could stay in EP at a cost of 60,000 baht plus or go to another school.

We then decided to leave him there till school closed in March then look at our options. To improve his Maths he had classes with the local Govt. High School teacher on Saturdays. She reported back that his level of Maths and understanding of Maths was not at all good and she then taught him for several months. He found an interest in Maths and complained how much the EP teacher was useless.

Rather than keep him in a EP setup that was not doing him any good,we shifted him out and enrolled him at the local Govt. School for M2. He has settled in well, is keener to work and has at last got homework to do at home.

However he misses his 2 best friends who are at the EP school. They have been mates since P1 and spend a lot of time together. So last Wednesday my son and I went to the EP school to see if he can enroll into M3 next year. We saw the lady who does enrollments who remembered my son and the Academic. Head of the school. They said he could go into M2/4 next term in the general school but first they would have to talk with the head of the EP . She came out and flatly refused his re admittance on the grounds that. " to get into general school all students must sit entrance exams. Those who pass can come to our school. Those who fail go elsewhere, but they can enter EP without an exam. Because we don't want children going from EP to general who would have failed the entrance we have this rule. I make the decision." He was most welcome to return to the EP classes. She was not al interested. In hearing why the EP class was a waste of time at her school. Then she had to hurry to a meeting and would like to remain friends with my wife and I.!!!!!

Still have a couple more strings in the bow so will keep preserving.

I know this is a problem between the school and I and know there are many schools in Thailand with excellent EP classes, however I do question the school my son was at.

Check out what school your children may attend and look carefully at their EP setup.

BAYBOY

[stubuzz]

My daughter's primary school has an E.P. Program and she is not in it. The E.P. program has the highest turnover of foreign staff in the province. They pay peanuts and employ anyone- drunks, criminals, and pot heads.

The head of the E.P. asked me if i wanted to put my daughter in the program @ 40k a semester. When I asked if any of the teachers held a teaching licence, she squirmed for a bit and replied " some of the Thai staff are working to get qualified"

[lostinisaan]

My daughter's primary school has an E.P. Program and she is not in it. The E.P. program has the highest turnover of foreign staff in the province. They pay peanuts and employ anyone- drunks, criminals, and pot heads.

The head of the E.P. asked me if i wanted to put my daughter in the program @ 40k a semester. When I asked if any of the teachers held a teaching licence, she squirmed for a bit and replied " some of the Thai staff are working to get qualified"

That sounds quite familiar to me. Maybe a three in one, as well? -

[laolover88]

Absolutely not

My children went through English Programs in Trang and Chiang Mai

Spent most of their time correcting the teachers' English including so-called 'native speakers'

The whole thing is a disaster area.

Of course there are competent, qualified English, TEFL TESOL, teachers..but not so many in LOS..think salary and WPs

And there is some thread running that starts, something along the lines of "I am not qualified but I think I can teach" which is a variant of "I am a qualified Thai Teacher, but I can't teach.

I love this country, but the education is lamentable. If ASEAN actually happens, and English becomes some sort of a Lingua Franca, what are the Thais going to do?

[Scott]

As someone mentioned 'checkout the EP program'. Do that carefully. I know a couple of schools that have started EP programs and they have no idea what they are doing. The staff is reasonably good and competent, but they keep changing the job description and it has a negative impact on the staff, and that affects learning. They do know how to collect the additional money, however.

I have a feeling the schools will get their act together, but it is going to take some time. The main advantage right now is that the students do get a lot of English and it has a good student to staff ratio.

The Thai admin, however, think that they can wave a magic wand and make a new program happen. It really doesn't happen quite that way.

[harrry]

My niece is in the EP plus program here. She is a pretty bright kid though she is a bit weak in maths,. She is in the top room and there was no hint of tea money for her to go there. Fees are about 20000 a term and about 2000 additional cost.

For that she receives small class sizes (about 28) very individual care, extra classes on most weekends which are obviously designed to concentrate on her weaknesses, There is no extra charge for these.

Although my other niece in a mini english program at another school did not receive anywhere near this at another school she was well cared for and had little problem getting entry this year to a very good provincial university studying Geoinformatics which from the sylabus is a course I would love to do.

I am posting this not to brag about the nieces, in fact I provide them minimal assistance, but to indicate that the Thai school system is not all bad and there may be very good reasons to attend an EP program not the least of which is the more individual care.

[brimacthai]

One of the things I have seen while teaching English is that many Thai students can speak English. If they have a foreigner parent or Thai parents that can speak English they (the students) are often afraid to speak English at home as they are afraid to make a mistake.

What many students need is an English language coach. Someone who can help you child or children to "use the language" without fear. A good coach will use situational English for practice... kind of like using the language in situations where they will really use it.

A good coach will also help the student discover ways they can learn more or even teach themselves.

There's an English language coach working in Sutthisan area that coaches conversational English... the classes are packed. I help sometimes as my schedule permits.

[WonnabeBiker]

If everybody shared my personal views, I would be out of a job

Money making trumps everything. They have a "teacher" from an African country whose TOEIC score is 540. Try engaging that "teacher" in a conversation... Enough said. as the highest valued member of our Dept., he gets free housing. And makes thousands more than yours truly.

Teach your kids at home - forget the school's offering, unless it's a good school's. (There are students in my class who cannot read in grade 9 - M3. What are they doing in this program?!? Rhetorical question - they are there so that the school's making money. Death mutes would be welcome if they are quiet and pay up).

Countless hours of English - but when they cannot handle everyday situations like shopping, telling the time etc. Something went horribly wrong. Feel guilty myself (first semester at this new school). Let's see if the school's willing to do something about illiterate students.

Yes, there have been long meetings (conducted in Thai) with grand plans being announced. Talk the talk, walk the walk!

[stbkk]

If you are serious about them being taught properly in English, and can afford it, I'd send them to a good international school.

In my opinion its the only way to ensure some sort of consistency of teaching by native English language teachers.

I have regular face-to-face meetings with my kids teachers at the end of each term, as well as formal written reports.

[harrry]

If you are serious about them being taught properly in English, and can afford it, I'd send them to a good international school.

In my opinion its the only way to ensure some sort of consistency of teaching by native English language teachers.

I have regular face-to-face meetings with my kids teachers at the end of each term, as well as formal written reports.

Only each term..we have them every month and that is a Government school.

[isawasnake]

I would never even consider sending my kids to a Thai English program.

[kleelof]

I taught in an EP for 7 years and have a daughter who I would NOT send to an EP. Here is what I can tell you from my experience:

The EP I worked in was well run. The company who provided the teachers worked to make sure the teachers who taught math and science had backgrounds in either their education or previous teaching experience. This, actually, is a requirement most EP's don't follow.

It was a good program. But it had 2 serious issues:

1) It became a dumping ground for students who, otherwise, could not get into the school through testing, but had money to pay for the program. So, 25% - 30% of the students could not speak English very well and/or were poor students.

2) A lot of the other kids were rich and bragged a lot about being in the program. This caused a lot of animosity from other students and teachers. It could be quite difficult to organize activities with the rest of the school.

On the + side. During my 7 years there, the program produced MANY students who went on to accomplish things that got their pictures on the banners outside the school. For example, 1 student got the second highest test scores on an entrance exam for some famous Uni. in BKK.

Now, why would I not send my daughter to one:

During my time in this EP, I was able to see other English Programs at other schools and realized ours was unique. The other ones were run by the school administrators(Ours was nearly independent from the school administration). So they had many of the issues you would expect from anything run my Thai school administrators: unqualified teachers, high turnover (Most of the teachers in our program had been there for 5+ years), lack of understanding of what the students really needed to learn and, of course, the programs were often used as a front to make the schools look better.

The year I left, there was a new director at the school. She destroyed the program. Now it is just like the ones at the other schools. Lots of non-native English speakers, high turnover and all the quality students have left the program.

Another issue is the level of English. I taught M1. Most of the students were OK at English, a few were very good. If I put my daughter in one, she would be so far ahead of most of the students, that she would spend a lot of 'down time' while other students were trying to understand the English. Especially in maths and science.

Someone above mentioned wanting to know the qualifications of the teachers. This would be a very good idea. And also check that the teachers can actually speak English clearly and accurately.

I plan to help my daughter with school work through her high school years. So I know she will be able to learn all the appropriate vocabulary and terms.

With this in mind, last year I enrolled her in a Chinese program. Figured English and Thai are covered at home. A third useful language seems to be a better choice than an English Program.

I think international programs are slightly better. They seem to have the money to pay for teachers with educations in science and math.

[Baerboxer]

I’d only send them to a “functioning EP”, but would do my homework, before paying a lot of money for stuff my kids will never use.

No parent does their homework as far as I can tell. Teachers are hired and if a parent questions the qualifications the Director and English Department Head lose face. As you must have learned by now, face is more important than the actual qualifications and ability of the teacher to speak English not to mention, teach it to children who as you also indicate you know, have little to almost no English abilities and skills to begin with. The promotional material indicate "Native English Speakers" teaching etc. but the truth lies way on the other side of that parameter or measure. It's a cruel world out here in Thai schools. Face and obedience come long before and ahead of learning real native English in any subject or the English language itself. Lack of care about teaching aides such as mentioned, cables and microphones are only the beginning of a long list. All that said, I guess one could ask is it "better" than being in the Thai program? On balance, maybe yes, it is.

Don't judge others by your own standards. We have checked out the schools very carefully in each of the several countries we've lived in. My wife taught for several years and as a MEd and BA so she does the "quality checks and evaluation". I concentrate on the admin and also make a point of talking to all the "English" teachers whatever thieir nationality.

My daughter is in a EP program. Smaller class size and teachers from UK, Germany, USA and Filipino as well as Thai. The Thai "home room" teacher remains in the room for all lessons form P3 upwards. Prior to that all classes have one Thai and one foreign home room teacher. We attend all parents sessions and meet/talk regularly with several other parents (all Thai except me). My wife looked at several other schools before this one including some much more expensive international "franchises" which she thought not so good. We are very pleased with this one and the standards so far.

My son is disabled. We tried a couple of schools before finding one that has a really good program for disabled pupils, trains its teachers correctly and develops the pupils correctly. This is a Thai government school in an area where the local authority are thoughtful and the current and previous headmaster excellent.

As with every country we've lived in, schools are very variable and parents need to take an ongoing responsibility for their children's education.

[Staffan]

Someone wrote this:

"I would not put my child in an EP program unless I had a plan to send them to University overseas. If the plan is for them to remain in Thailand, then a Thai education, with a strong (very strong) English component is probably the route to go. A bilingual school would be a good option, allowing the choice of study in either language.

I would also not send my child to an EP program if they were a native Thai speaker and had learning difficulties. Children who are not very bright tend to get lost when learning in two languages. Of course, if you plan to resettle in a country where English is the primary language then go for the EP program and forget about any emphasis on Thai."

This is a misunderstanding: the EP program does not give special qulifications for entering university abroad. For tha you would need to send your child to an international programme. EP programmes largely follow the Thai curriculum, even if a number of subjects are indeed taought in Englsi or, like for my son in G3, in both English and Thai.

For the initiator of this question: Move to Chiang Mai, if you can. There are a number of fairly good options for EP programmes, but not very cheap. And a fair guarantee of having native speakers teaching.

[heybuz]

I'm sending eldest to Oz for 12 month's got no choice not to speak English,either that or starve.

[isawasnake]

I taught in an EP for 7 years and have a daughter who I would NOT send to an EP. Here is what I can tell you from my experience:

The EP I worked in was well run. The company who provided the teachers worked to make sure the teachers who taught math and science had backgrounds in either their education or previous teaching experience. This, actually, is a requirement most EP's don't follow.

It was a good program. But it had 2 serious issues:

1) It became a dumping ground for students who, otherwise, could not get into the school through testing, but had money to pay for the program. So, 25% - 30% of the students could not speak English very well and/or were poor students.

2) A lot of the other kids were rich and bragged a lot about being in the program. This caused a lot of animosity from other students and teachers. It could be quite difficult to organize activities with the rest of the school.

On the + side. During my 7 years there, the program produced MANY students who went on to accomplish things that got their pictures on the banners outside the school. For example, 1 student got the second highest test scores on an entrance exam for some famous Uni. in BKK.

Now, why would I not send my daughter to one:

During my time in this EP, I was able to see other English Programs at other schools and realized ours was unique. The other ones were run by the school administrators(Ours was nearly independent from the school administration). So they had many of the issues you would expect from anything run my Thai school administrators: unqualified teachers, high turnover (Most of the teachers in our program had been there for 5+ years), lack of understanding of what the students really needed to learn and, of course, the programs were often used as a front to make the schools look better.

The year I left, there was a new director at the school. She destroyed the program. Now it is just like the ones at the other schools. Lots of non-native English speakers, high turnover and all the quality students have left the program.

Another issue is the level of English. I taught M1. Most of the students were OK at English, a few were very good. If I put my daughter in one, she would be so far ahead of most of the students, that she would spend a lot of 'down time' while other students were trying to understand the English. Especially in maths and science.

Someone above mentioned wanting to know the qualifications of the teachers. This would be a very good idea. And also check that the teachers can actually speak English clearly and accurately.

I plan to help my daughter with school work through her high school years. So I know she will be able to learn all the appropriate vocabulary and terms.

With this in mind, last year I enrolled her in a Chinese program. Figured English and Thai are covered at home. A third useful language seems to be a better choice than an English Program.

I think international programs are slightly better. They seem to have the money to pay for teachers with educations in science and math.

I think looking very very closely at qualifications is a great idea. I don't see a lot of parents doing this however, but that is definitely the best filter they could have. I do see many of the parents seem to care quite a bit, but they just aren't very clear on the proper things to care about imo.

To further your recommendation, I would look very closely at these online degrees that the people did nothing but sit on the internet, yet have some sort of "teaching degree". I have seen this a number of times. I personally would be willing to give a pass to teachers without actual teaching degrees if they have advanced degrees in science or math for example.

This is where it would be at I think, parents filtering teachers and demanding that they aren't educated at degree mills or don't have proper educations. Nice post, I agree with a lot of your thoughts.

[kerrysum]

Actually, what I have found ,

Is that is better to have then an English speaking environment... Have talked with many Thai's about this, and yes many teachers in Thailand. It is no different around the world. The child can go to a English class, but when they get home, what do they think?

Even with my current wife, I have sent her to good schools here in America, but when she hangs with friends she goes back to her native language. The point is to inspire them, and then make them ask questions. Kids are naturally inquisitive, because sometimes they do not understand. Then she wants me to speak her native language. So this is a decision you have to make, after all, it your decision.

Just a thought.

[kerrysum]

I'm sending eldest to Oz for 12 month's got no choice not to speak English,either that or starve.

Exactly the point... They will live an learn...

[scorecard]

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I don't have kids yet, so will cross that bridge when I come to it, however I believe that I would put them into the English Program.

Primarily because it's where the rich kids go lol.

Which initially sounds like a pretty lame reason, until you remember that the kids in the normal program usually have parents who often don't care about their kids education (Because often the parents didn't have an education, and therefore think that it's that important, whereas most rich people had a good education, and believe that it's not just important, but essential). This is then usually reflected by their kids not caring about their education, and spending all of their time just clowning around in class.

Admittedly, the streamed classes are a little bit better, so if I had kids and they were going to be in a good class, then I'd probably be happy with the Thai section classes.

As although of course I'd want to instil the importance of education into my kids, and encourage them to do their homework and pay attention inclass etc, it's not just upto me. As they'll look at what their friends are doing, and that will impact on them too. If their friends think that doing homework is for losers, then my kids might not care as much about homework, likewise if their friends thing that staring out the window is more fun than paying attention in class, then chances are my kids will also do the same (at least sometimes anyway). Then when they get outside of school, if my kids friends think that it's cool to mod their motorcycles and do wheelies, or goto mor lum concerts and fight with the rivals schools, then chances are that my kids will also think that this is pretty cool.

By comparison, if their friends come from good families who care about their education, then chances are that the parents values will be reflected in their kids (Just as I hope my values will be reflected in my kids). So it's then less likely that they'll feel the inclination to do all of the stupid stuff which the kids in the Thai section do.

Also the rich kids are probably going to do extra camps and stuff which the regular kids don't get to do. They will also potentially have the means to travel or similar, so would be more likely to relate to my kids, and my kids might not feel like "The odd one out" because they're the only kid from a wealthy family in their class.

Although as I said, the good kids in the Thai section are usually streamed into the same class, so if I knew my kids were going to go into there, then I wouldn't feel the need for an English program.

That's my 2c

You seem to be suggesting that the rich kids are more serious about education.

Well at university level I can tell you that's absolutely not true, especially at bachelor level.

I know from lots of experience in several supposedly top universities in Thailand they have very little focus on study and lots of focus on 'fun'. Additionally many of them are disruptive to very disruptive in the classroom which takes up way to many of the available teaching hours.

Further, the lecturer is faced with problems like: small team project - after a week or so some / most of a team complain that xxx is doing nothing whatever to contribute to the project. Lecturer speaks to the student which is a waste of time and achieves nothing, because the student(s) concerned have no intention whatever of doing their share or taking their education / project seriously, and seriously believe they are entitled to share the good grade that the rest of the team worked hard to achieve a good grade.

Again and again I get the : "Professor, If I do one extra quick assignment will you upgrade me to an A." The answer is "No", then there's the 'but that's not fair" etc.

I'm also aware that many of the rich kids in international high schools have pretty much the same attitudes and behaviors.

There are of course some students from rich families who better / much more balanced attitudes and who seriously avoid the students I mentioned above.

Edited July 28, 2014 by scorecard

[scorecard]

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I'm sending eldest to Oz for 12 month's got no choice not to speak English,either that or starve.

Exactly the point... They will live an learn...

Singapore can also be a good option for immersion in English, plus excellent teaching methodologies, good resources, no bullshit teachers, safe environment and not that far away.

My Thai son did a stint at high school in Singapore (he was very keen to go and got good grades). Not only did it improve his English enormously (he did already speak good English before he went) it also triggered and built his ability to analyse, think, create, discuss, and jumped his maturity up a couple of levels higher than his buddies in Thailand. And not expensive compared to schools in US, UK and Oz. Great value

[laolover88]

I think this a most interesting thread. It is no use putting it in the Primary/Secondary Schools forum. What we are talking about is the best way for our children to be at least bilingual and in some cases, if their mother tongue is neither Thai nor English, trilingual.I think most EP programmes are a waste of time and, particularly, money. If you are lucky you will get a native speaker who can actually teach; either on the basis that he/she is trained or you are just lucky that they have got some grip on what is needed.

We had a memorable confrontation with a so-called native speaker who asked the kids to spell Hossup. Children: Whatis it ? Hossup. Ah Hot Soup.

The presence of Thai teachers in the room is a complete waste of space as their English competence will almost certainly be dreadful. My children have lived in Thailand all their life; but!! they have been taken to the UK for considerable periods of
time..like from 4 to 5, 7 to 8 and 9 to 10..so they are perfectly fluent in English. They speak Thai and various dialects of it! fluently too. But they have some difficulty with writing and reading Thai. Of course, as they point out, the Thai students in their class cannot read and write Thai properly either. We are now embarking, indeed have embarked, on M1-6....Further problems. I have no idea what goes on in the programmes that train Thai teachers; but whatever it is it has nothing to do with equipping a person to teach. We don't want the children to go to international schools, or UK exports, in Thailand with a bunch of rich kids
from wherever. And anyway I suspect that both here and in Malaysia and Singapore they are only in it for the money. We want them to be citoyennes du monde who move easily between cultures and languages, but are also grounded in the towns where we live in Thailand and Europe.

We tried to get private tutors for Thai, Computer Programming, and other things they wanted to learn. The Thai! teacher of Japanese gave up because the lessons conflicted with her Wat Schedule. My wife said:look everybody here is too lazy. The teachers get paid whatever they do, so they do not want to do any 'evening' work. The whole thing is a nightmare. Actually we don't think the schools have much to offer except the potential of friends!

[Thai at Heart]

Did it in primary scholl Got the kids bilingual.

No way were they going through the Thai hischool system. No way.

[CroBiker]

As someone mentioned 'checkout the EP program'. Do that carefully. I know a couple of schools that have started EP programs and they have no idea what they are doing. The staff is reasonably good and competent, but they keep changing the job description and it has a negative impact on the staff, and that affects learning. They do know how to collect the additional money, however.

I have a feeling the schools will get their act together, but it is going to take some time. The main advantage right now is that the students do get a lot of English and it has a good student to staff ratio.

The Thai admin, however, think that they can wave a magic wand and make a new program happen. It really doesn't happen quite that way.

Very true. I had my son enrolled in bilingual school back in 2006 (Kajonkiat ) and it was absolute disaster.

10 months later we moved him to International School and 7 years later he speaks perfect English, even using American accent. And it is not just his English that improved; he is very confident now and quite good in math and science too.

Neither me or my wife are native English speakers by the way.

Bottom line, I would not hesitate to spend my last baht (US$ in this case) to secure proper education for my kids. I have seen around parents who spent more on status symbols such as yachts, expensive cars and big houses but send their kids to Thai Government or Bilingual schools to save a buck. Really strange list of priorities.

[kleelof]

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I'm sending eldest to Oz for 12 month's got no choice not to speak English,either that or starve.

Exactly the point... They will live an learn...

Singapore can also be a good option for immersion in English, plus excellent teaching methodologies, good resources, no bullshit teachers, safe environment and not that far away.

My Thai son did a stint at high school in Singapore (he was very keen to go and got good grades). Not only did it improve his English enormously (he did already speak good English before he went) it also triggered and built his ability to analyse, think, create, discuss, and jumped his maturity up a couple of levels higher than his buddies in Thailand. And not expensive compared to schools in US, UK and Oz. Great value

Good point about the analyse, think, create and discuss. I forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

English is a nice benefit of an EP or international school. But these other things they pick-up from studying so much with Farang well outweigh the benefit of improved English.