Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Michael Hare]

I got my PR in 2004. Straight forward process. Took 2 years and 8 months from start to finish. I was just a lecturer at the university in Ubon Ratchathani. Four trips down to Bangkok (Soi Suan Plu) and that was it. Did everything myself. 

[Arkady]

On 9/24/2022 at 9:56 AM, scorecard said:

From a couple of discussions with the Imm. officers 25 years ago, over 90% of applicantions were rejected. Is it the same today?

If talking about applications accepted by Immigration but rejected by the Immigration Commission, I doubt it has ever been nearly as high as 90% in normal times because Immigration filters out those that are not qualified according to the letter of the regulations. Referring to mere enquiries to Immigration that are told they are not qualified or not yet qualified, then, of course, the percentage would be much higher.  Thaksin's regime as PM was another matter. In the early noughties entire batches of applicants were rejected out of hand because the evil, xenophobic interior minister Purachai hated all foreigners and claimed without citing any evidence that the applicants all lacked merit and were probably all crooks - just like him and fellow politicians.  Maybe that was the period you referred to.

 

Some people apply, despite being told by Immigration that they are unqualified because they insist that, according to the letter they are qualified.  A case in point is the notorious humanitarian category where the regulations imply you are qualified by virtue of supporting a Thai child or spouse without working in Thailand but Immigration demands  a work permit and Thai tax receipts.  One guy reported in this thread that he did that with his lawyer threatening to sue the officers in the Administrative Court, if they refused to accept his application. But he never posted again, so presumably he ended up in the circular file, possibly with another reason given for reject to avert legal action. I am sure he would have posted in triumph, if he had been successful. 

 

I think the borderline cases that are accepted by Immigration but rejected by the Commission are few and far between but there are certainly oversights by Immigration. I know of two cases that were initially accepted by Immigration but later sent back by the MoI because it was noticed that both applicants had extra jobs that they naively referred to in their documentation but didn't have WPs for the second jobs. They were both told that the Labour Ministry rep on the Immigration Commission might well have insisted on their prosecution, if they had proceeded to that stage and were advised to fix the problem and re-apply.

 

One thing that puzzles me though is that, since they introduced the Thai language requirement in the early noughties, I have never heard of anyone failing the Thai language interview which seems as if it would be quite difficult for someone with only basic Thai. Probably there is a lot of self-selection of people who decide not to apply because they know their Thai is poor or non-existent. However, you would think this was an area that, since it is subjective, there would be quite a few failures. I can only assume that either the interview is just for show and everyone passes, no matter how awful their Thai, or that those who fail are too ashamed to post about it. 

 

My own experience on this topic during my application, also about 25 years ago , was in a meeting with a Pol Maj Gen at Immigration to whom someone had introduced me.   He showed me a pile of files of rejections and invited me to thumb through them and I recognised a couple of names. They were mainly applicants working for 2 million baht registered capital companies which was the minimum required for a work permit. He said that a cut off of of 5 million baht had been set and all employers smaller than that were automatically assumed 'man of straw' companies to save the officers having to do detailed investigations to check that they were real businesses. He said the applicants were not told the real reason for their rejections and some applied again and again with the same pitiful results.  But I doubt that category was anywhere near 90%, as most applicants tend to be employees rather than operating their own small businesses.

[Michael Hare]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

If talking about applications accepted by Immigration but rejected by the Immigration Commission, I doubt it has ever been nearly as high as 90% in normal times because Immigration filters out those that are not qualified according to the letter of the regulations. Referring to mere enquiries to Immigration that are told they are not qualified or not yet qualified, then, of course, the percentage would be much higher.  Thaksin's regime as PM was another matter. In the early noughties entire batches of applicants were rejected out of hand because the evil, xenophobic interior minister Purachai hated all foreigners and claimed without citing any evidence that the applicants all lacked merit and were probably all crooks - just like him and fellow politicians.  Maybe that was the period you referred to.

 

Some people apply, despite being told by Immigration that they are unqualified because they insist that, according to the letter they are qualified.  A case in point is the notorious humanitarian category where the regulations imply you are qualified by virtue of supporting a Thai child or spouse without working in Thailand but Immigration demands  a work permit and Thai tax receipts.  One guy reported in this thread that he did that with his lawyer threatening to sue the officers in the Administrative Court, if they refused to accept his application. But he never posted again, so presumably he ended up in the circular file, possibly with another reason given for reject to avert legal action. I am sure he would have posted in triumph, if he had been successful. 

 

I think the borderline cases that are accepted by Immigration but rejected by the Commission are few and far between but there are certainly oversights by Immigration. I know of two cases that were initially accepted by Immigration but later sent back by the MoI because it was noticed that both applicants had extra jobs that they naively referred to in their documentation but didn't have WPs for the second jobs. They were both told that the Labour Ministry rep on the Immigration Commission might well have insisted on their prosecution, if they had proceeded to that stage and were advised to fix the problem and re-apply.

 

One thing that puzzles me though is that, since they introduced the Thai language requirement in the early noughties, I have never heard of anyone failing the Thai language interview which seems as if it would be quite difficult for someone with only basic Thai. Probably there is a lot of self-selection of people who decide not to apply because they know their Thai is poor or non-existent. However, you would think this was an area that, since it is subjective, there would be quite a few failures. I can only assume that either the interview is just for show and everyone passes, no matter how awful their Thai, or that those who fail are too ashamed to post about it. 

 

My own experience on this topic during my application, also about 25 years ago , was in a meeting with a Pol Maj Gen at Immigration to whom someone had introduced me.   He showed me a pile of files of rejections and invited me to thumb through them and I recognised a couple of names. They were mainly applicants working for 2 million baht registered capital companies which was the minimum required for a work permit. He said that a cut off of of 5 million baht had been set and all employers smaller than that were automatically assumed 'man of straw' companies to save the officers having to do detailed investigations to check that they were real businesses. He said the applicants were not told the real reason for their rejections and some applied again and again with the same pitiful results.  But I doubt that category was anywhere near 90%, as most applicants tend to be employees rather than operating their own small businesses.

Interesting about Purachai Piumsomboon. He got PR in NZ just before he became Interior Minister. Bought a house and raised his family in Christchurch. The children have done well. The daughter Tip Piumsomboon  is in finance https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/blackbird-ventures-principal-tip-piumsomboon-quits-to-pursue-bitcoin-opportunities/NRAGA33T7VHCMQUHOOYNBY7NV4/

 

The son Toddy, is well known in Bangkok circles. https://www.facebook.com/tod.piumsomboon/ NZ gave them a good educatiion. I expected more from Purachai when he was in government. 

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Interesting about Purachai Piumsomboon. He got PR in NZ just before he became Interior Minister. Bought a house and raised his family in Christchurch. The children have done well. The daughter Tip Piumsomboon  is in finance https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/blackbird-ventures-principal-tip-piumsomboon-quits-to-pursue-bitcoin-opportunities/NRAGA33T7VHCMQUHOOYNBY7NV4/

 

The son Toddy, is well known in Bangkok circles. https://www.facebook.com/tod.piumsomboon/ NZ gave them a good educatiion. I expected more from Purachai when he was in government. 

Interesting re how his children have made out. Purachai obviously didn't see improving Thai education as an issue to push for when he was in the cabinet as he had already voted with his feet as far as own kids were concerned. However, he understood very well why foreigners were interested in the security of PR since he enjoyed that privilege in NZ without being willing to reciprocate NZ's kindness himself. Not sure where he got the money to buy a house and move his family to NZ.  He was an academic at NIDA before Thaksin discovered him. He cultivated this image as a Mr Clean, fair, straight shooter but it is far from clear that he was devoid of corruption or how he could have been appointed as Thaksin's interior minister without a clear understanding to  pass slush up the pipe (same applies re Chartchard as Thaksin appointed transport minister under Yingluck) The foreigners whose PR and citizenship applications he knocked back without cause didn't see him as fair.  He signed almost zero citizenship approvals,. whereas they were running at around 300-400 a year before he took office. HIs clean image was given the lie by his mealy mouthed excuses as minister in charge of the Land Department for failing to take any action over the flagrant criminality of Thaksin and Snoh over the Alpine Golf course land scandal which surfaced on his watch. (Eventually someone in the Land Dept took the hit with a prision sentence for this malfeasance.) 

 

It seemed like he was trying to outdo and eclipse Thaksin in onservative popularism with his ridiculous 'social order' campaign that went alongside Thaksin's murderous war on drugs. Exits to pubs were blocked causing serious fire hazards and patrons were obliged to take low quality drug tests that showed positive on menstruating women. But Thais thought this was all great, as they love a strongman type like Sarit trying to discipline their wayward kids, at least until they get bored of him.  One of Purachai's attractions to Thaksin was that he had no faction supporting him in TRT and was actually hated by all the party's faction leaders, not least because he took the lucrative and powerful interior portfolio from under their noses. Having no faction to placate made Purachai  dispensible to Thaksin, should the need arise, but Purachai, being a naive academic, didn't seem to really grasp this.  Before long, like Icarus, he flew too close the sun and when media started talking him up as a potential successor to Thaksin (of course laughable with no MPs behind him but unacceptable to Thaksin), Thaksin acted fast.  Purachai's feet didn't touch the ground when the boot connected with his rear.  He made a feeble attempt at a comeback in 2011 as leader of an obscure new political party that quickly fizzled out, proving that he was actually just a political force created and shut down at will by Thaksin.  Finally a thoroughly unpleasant, hypocritical, self-seeking,. narcissistic man was dumped for good out ofThai public life.  

[jombangkok]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:44 PM, cocoonclub said:

That I know. I’m not worried about my B visa. My question was the other way round:

 

Will my PR application be cancelled/affected if I don’t get that “endorsement” (or anything else, whatever it may be) before leaving the country? 
 

The reason for my question: I read that when you have PR, you need to get some special endorsement or re-entry permit everytime before you leave the country, otherwise the PR would get cancelled. So my question is: does this already start with submission of the application, or only once I have obtained PR? 

On 9/6/2022 at 4:13 PM, ubonjoe said:

You would not need a endorsement before leaving the country. That is only needed after you get PR.

You do need to keep your current stay in the country valid by using a re-entry permit when you enter the country to keep your application for PR valid.

I feel like this wasn't properly answered (or I just don't understand it) and I have the same question.

 

If I am on a NON-B, with multiple entry permits. Then I get a PR. 

• Do I even need the NON-B anymore? Will the NON-B be removed or will it stay as I get the PR?
• If I have the NON-B with multiple entries, do I still need to get the PR-re-entry endorsement to avoid it being cancelled on re-entry?

 

Edit: on a third re-read, I guess the second sentence means you do need the endorsement, but I'll let the question stay up just in case someone would like to confirm.

[jombangkok]

Hello. I have started to look closer on the documents required (a bit slot but hey) and I have some questions that I hope someone could answer. As people state you can do it all alone, I guess it should be doable, however I am quite confused on some points.

 

I am reading the list from the Required documents link here: https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744 specifically on page 2 - "DOCUMENTS REQUIRED WHEN APPLYING FOR A RESIDENCE PERMIT IN THE CATEGORY OF WORKING/BUSINESS (October 2021)" 

 

First thing that might make me confused is the fact that this is the requirements for both WORKING as well as BUSINESS, as in "Running a business". There is a distinction between them which is laid out in this document on point 3.2 where 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 notes someone running a company, whereas 3.2.3 is for someone just working.

 

Here is the list for convenience:

 

Quote

1. Application form (TM.9) (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand)

 

2. Health certificate from a government hospital (issued within 3 months) (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand)

 

3. Certificate of no criminal record from the applicant’s domicile which must be officially certified by Thai consulate in that country or the applicant’s national embassy located in Thailand, translated into Thai and certified by the Official of Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand.

 

4. Copy of the applicant’s educational certificate must be officially certified by the national embassy located in Thailand, translated into Thai and certified by the Official of Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand. 

 

5. The letter of employment history from Office of Foreign Workers Administration (Work Permit), Department of Employment Library (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand) and copy of all of the applicant’s work permit(s) (every single page that contains information) 

 

6. The employment certification letter from the applicant’s work place which is signed by the company’s authorized person (as per the official form) required last 2 years (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand) and employment application with employment agreement (if any) 

 

7. Copy of the applicant’s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by the revenue officers 

 

8. Copy of the applicant’s monthly income tax form (por ngor dor 1) with receipts from the beginning of the year of application submission (January) until the previous month of application submission which must be officially certified by the revenue officers 

 

9. Certificate of the juristic person registration of which the applicant is working with, that must be issued and officially certified by the Ministry of Commerce within the previous 3 months prior to the application submission date 

 

10. Copy of the juristic person registration of which the applicant is working with for the previous 3 years prior to the application submission year 

 

11. List of the share holders which is issued and officially certified by the Ministry of Commerce within the previous 3 months prior to the application submission date. And applicant, whose share exeeding 5 million bath, must show the list of shareholders 3 years backward.

 

12. Copy of the value added tax (VAT) or the specific business tax registration e.g. phor phor 01, phor phor 09, and phor phor 20 

 

13. Copy of the financial statements (balance sheet, profit and loss statement) together with phor ngor dor 50 (company income tax form) and receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the application submission year which must be officially certified by the revenue officers 

 

14. Export certification letter from any bank in Thailand which indicates the total export value in Thai baht for the previous 3 consecutive years prior to the application submission year (only for the export business) 

 

15. Certification letter from the organization that involves with the tourism business which gives detail about the number of tourists the company has brought in the Kingdom of Thailand for the previous 3 consecutive years prior to the application submission year (only for the tourist business) 

 

16. In case that the company is considered as one of BOI support, the copy of the BOI card or other documents indicating that support are needed 

 

17. Map of residence and place of work (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand) 18.Copy of all of the applicant’s passport (every single page) to indicate the duration of stay in the Kingdom at least 3 consecutive years  

 

19.Personal information sheet (download at https://www.immigration.go.th – Applying for a resident’s visa in Thailand) and the photographs of; the applicant locating in front of the workplace, outside the office (alone), inside the office with the staff, outside the factory (alone), inside the factory with the staff, with the machines and products (if any) also 10 photographs of the applicant with his/her family taking at the residence both outside and inside. All of the photographs must be postcard size on A4 letter head (company stationary) with description. 

 

20.Additional documents which are considered as appropriate by the immigration officer.

 

Let's me focus on a few:

 

3. I can get a police check from here in Thailand somehow? As my domicile is here.

 

4. I do not have a bachelors degree, do I just skip this or do I submit the documents I have (courses at uni done) and a note to explain?

 

5. Does this place "Office of Foreign Workers Administration (Work Permit), Department of Employment Library" actually have a list of my employment history as well as copies of my work permits (dating back to 2015!?). I probably have digital copies only.

 

7-8: I have PNG90/91 for 2021, and 2019. But digitally. It says to have PNG90/91 for 3 years prior to 2022, so I need for 2019, 2020, 2021. I've also never ever seen a PND50 nor PND1. Am I able to get this from the department of revenue if I go there?

 

9-16: All seems to relate to being a company. Are all of these irrelevant for me who is applying under the "working" category (as opposed to business). Or does my employer need to provide some of these?

 

In general, "officially certified" means a stamp from the related place?

 

Thanks to anyone who can answer on this!

[onthemoon]

12 hours ago, jombangkok said:

I feel like this wasn't properly answered (or I just don't understand it) and I have the same question.

 

If I am on a NON-B, with multiple entry permits. Then I get a PR. 

• Do I even need the NON-B anymore? Will the NON-B be removed or will it stay as I get the PR?
• If I have the NON-B with multiple entries, do I still need to get the PR-re-entry endorsement to avoid it being cancelled on re-entry?

 

Edit: on a third re-read, I guess the second sentence means you do need the endorsement, but I'll let the question stay up just in case someone would like to confirm.

NON-B = Non-Immigrant Class B (business). You know the drill, you need a Re-Entry Permit before  leaving.

 

After you receive PR, you will need to apply for a Non-Quota Immigrant Visa. Another type of visa for you. No more Non-Immigrant visa. You can apply for this Immigrant visa, with multiple entry if you like, after you have received PR. 

At the same time that you apply for the Immigrant Visa, you also need to apply for an Endorsement in your initially blue (later white) residency book. Another stamp.

You need to have both stamps in place before leaving the country. Otherwise, your PR will be cancelled upon return. You can get these stamps only at CW, not at the airport.

 

We often call the visa and the endorsement summarily "re-entry stamp", but they are very different from the re-entry permit you need for a Non-B. 

 

Hope this helps.

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Hello. I have started to look closer on the documents required (a bit slot but hey) and I have some questions that I hope someone could answer. As people state you can do it all alone, I guess it should be doable, however I am quite confused on some points.

 

I am reading the list from the Required documents link here: https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744 specifically on page 2 - "DOCUMENTS REQUIRED WHEN APPLYING FOR A RESIDENCE PERMIT IN THE CATEGORY OF WORKING/BUSINESS (October 2021)" 

 

First thing that might make me confused is the fact that this is the requirements for both WORKING as well as BUSINESS, as in "Running a business". There is a distinction between them which is laid out in this document on point 3.2 where 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 notes someone running a company, whereas 3.2.3 is for someone just working.

 

Here is the list for convenience:

 

 

Let's me focus on a few:

 

3. I can get a police check from here in Thailand somehow? As my domicile is here.

You need from your country of passport.

 

9 hours ago, jombangkok said:

 

4. I do not have a bachelors degree, do I just skip this or do I submit the documents I have (courses at uni done) and a note to explain?

Hand in a copy of your highest degree. Additional certificates from uni won't hurt.

 

9 hours ago, jombangkok said:

 

5. Does this place "Office of Foreign Workers Administration (Work Permit), Department of Employment Library" actually have a list of my employment history as well as copies of my work permits (dating back to 2015!?). I probably have digital copies only.

If you have a work permit, you will see that it shows only your current employer. I am not sure whether it has changed, but in the past, we needed to be on the same work permit (i.e. with the current employer) for three years. Someone else will chip in and advise whether that has changed.

 

9 hours ago, jombangkok said:

 

7-8: I have PNG90/91 for 2021, and 2019. But digitally. It says to have PNG90/91 for 3 years prior to 2022, so I need for 2019, 2020, 2021. I've also never ever seen a PND50 nor PND1. Am I able to get this from the department of revenue if I go there?

Yes, you need to hand in your PND90/91 for the past three years. If you don't have three years full yet, you will have to wait for another year before you can apply. You will have to ask your company for the PND50 and PND1.

 

9 hours ago, jombangkok said:

 

9-16: All seems to relate to being a company. Are all of these irrelevant for me who is applying under the "working" category (as opposed to business). Or does my employer need to provide some of these?

Any company documents will have to be provided by the company. It does not matter whether you are the owner or an employee. In fact, if you own a company, you will technically be an employee of your own company.

 

HTH

[Dogmatix]

I am not sure if submitting certificates for universtity courses that are not degrees are worth the trouble, if you have to get them certified. They tend to just tick the boxes and ignore everything else. For something which is not a degree, they have no box to tick. It might be more worthwhile if it is a professional qualification or something directly related to your job which relates to how you can bring expertise and training to help Thai colleagues. 

 

I remember being told that submitting my certificate from the Ed Ministry for passing the Por. 6 exam for foreigners that used to be required for foreign teachers to teach in Thailand (most failed and had to resit over and over, meaning that they could only get 3 month visa extensions and WPs) would make a big difference in view of the Thai language requirement. In fact the other just said, "What's this?" and when  I explained she just dropped it on the pile without comment and went on to the next question, obviously uninterested because it was not a masters degree. 

[anthonyT]

11 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Hello. I have started to look closer on the documents required (a bit slot but hey) and I have some questions that I hope someone could answer. As people state you can do it all alone, I guess it should be doable, however I am quite confused on some points.

 

I am reading the list from the Required documents link here: https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744 specifically on page 2 - "DOCUMENTS REQUIRED WHEN APPLYING FOR A RESIDENCE PERMIT IN THE CATEGORY OF WORKING/BUSINESS (October 2021)" 

 

First thing that might make me confused is the fact that this is the requirements for both WORKING as well as BUSINESS, as in "Running a business". There is a distinction between them which is laid out in this document on point 3.2 where 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 notes someone running a company, whereas 3.2.3 is for someone just working.

 

Here is the list for convenience:

 

 

Let's me focus on a few:

 

3. I can get a police check from here in Thailand somehow? As my domicile is here.

 

4. I do not have a bachelors degree, do I just skip this or do I submit the documents I have (courses at uni done) and a note to explain?

 

5. Does this place "Office of Foreign Workers Administration (Work Permit), Department of Employment Library" actually have a list of my employment history as well as copies of my work permits (dating back to 2015!?). I probably have digital copies only.

 

7-8: I have PNG90/91 for 2021, and 2019. But digitally. It says to have PNG90/91 for 3 years prior to 2022, so I need for 2019, 2020, 2021. I've also never ever seen a PND50 nor PND1. Am I able to get this from the department of revenue if I go there?

 

9-16: All seems to relate to being a company. Are all of these irrelevant for me who is applying under the "working" category (as opposed to business). Or does my employer need to provide some of these?

 

In general, "officially certified" means a stamp from the related place?

 

Thanks to anyone who can answer on this!

On the degree and the police report, ( in my country it gets translated to "Declaration towards behaviour") i found them the most cumbersome to obtain.

 

The police report, has to be from the country of your passport. For degrees, you need to have them translated in English, certified by a legalized translator (who will take it to a local court), then have it legalized by the ministry of foreign affairs in the country of your passport and once that is done, you have to take it to the Thai Embassy of your home country to be stamped and confirmed as being authentique. Only then you can have it translated in Thailand by a Thai Translator who will need to go to the Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok, to have both legalized for Thailand and only then the Immigration will accept these.

 

If your home country is english speaking, or on the police document is as well English is written, the Thai Embassy of your home country might accept it without the need to have it translated or certified by the ministry of foreign affairs in your home country.

 

For both these documents, my brother in law went to the ministry of foreingn affairs in my home country and to the Thai Embassy there. And he had to make multiple trips. For the education degree it counts to your total, for passing the basic requirement, however you should go to Cheang Wattana and discuss with the officers there if they would accept your application without it. (myself i have bachelor degree, not masters, but you get different points for different levels i believe)

Also, be aware that after you get both these document legalized by the Thai Embassy and sent or take to Thailand not every translator is able to get this done as it needs to be done quite precise. If you want, i can sent you the contact details of the  lady i used, who used to work at that department and who got all translations done without any issues. Before i got her by the HR from my work, i went to various translators in Pattaya to get it done, but in the end they quoted absurd prices without confirmation or guarantee on the legalization part.

 

 Last point on the police report from your home country. It needs to be less then 3 months old. I applied 2 years ago, but due to some issues coming from Covid i could not apply the first time, then went a year later, with the nearly one year old police document and they would not accept it. Even though i could prove i did not leave the country due to covid, as they could see it from my passport. Good thing though, is that as this document takes time to obtain, immigration will accept your application, if all your other documents are in order, a proof that you have paid for this document and it in process of coming to Thailand. (I gave mine Mid January this year, after the application was already accepted.)

Apologies for the long post, but hope it helps.

Ant.

 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

I am not sure if submitting certificates for universtity courses that are not degrees are worth the trouble, if you have to get them certified. They tend to just tick the boxes and ignore everything else. For something which is not a degree, they have no box to tick. It might be more worthwhile if it is a professional qualification or something directly related to your job which relates to how you can bring expertise and training to help Thai colleagues. 

 

I remember being told that submitting my certificate from the Ed Ministry for passing the Por. 6 exam for foreigners that used to be required for foreign teachers to teach in Thailand (most failed and had to resit over and over, meaning that they could only get 3 month visa extensions and WPs) would make a big difference in view of the Thai language requirement. In fact the other just said, "What's this?" and when  I explained she just dropped it on the pile without comment and went on to the next question, obviously uninterested because it was not a masters degree. 

The officers are human, they do not just tick boxes. You want to make a good impression. 

They liked my P.6 certificate and some other stuff (partially not certified as I knew the document wasn't needed) and I had a good chat with my case officer. And why not? I know they are not the final decision makers, but it is never wrong to establish a good relationship. YMMV.

[Dogmatix]

31 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

The officers are human, they do not just tick boxes. You want to make a good impression. 

They liked my P.6 certificate and some other stuff (partially not certified as I knew the document wasn't needed) and I had a good chat with my case officer. And why not? I know they are not the final decision makers, but it is never wrong to establish a good relationship. YMMV.

Well done for also passing the Por. 6 exams.  It was quite a sweat, I thought, having to write a essay in Thai and do dictation etc.  Of course you will never be penalised for submitting too many documents and you never know what might make a difference.  I was just thinking from the point of view of overseas documents that might be difficult to get certified. I wouldn't bother, if they are not that important. 

 

When I applied for PR, I didn't have a case officer at Immigration like you do at Special Branch for citizenship. I had two formal interviews with different officers just verifying all the information submitted on the application form and my documents. They were not particularly friendly. For citizenship I had quite a few informal meetings with my case officer before the final formal meeting to do the tests and finalize the information on the application form and scrawl my name in Thai. Plenty of time to develop a rapport and the case officer also follows up with you after the application which was not the case with PR. Of course things change in both processes.  

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I am not sure if submitting certificates for universtity courses that are not degrees are worth the trouble, if you have to get them certified. They tend to just tick the boxes and ignore everything else. For something which is not a degree, they have no box to tick. It might be more worthwhile if it is a professional qualification or something directly related to your job which relates to how you can bring expertise and training to help Thai colleagues. 

 

I remember being told that submitting my certificate from the Ed Ministry for passing the Por. 6 exam for foreigners that used to be required for foreign teachers to teach in Thailand (most failed and had to resit over and over, meaning that they could only get 3 month visa extensions and WPs) would make a big difference in view of the Thai language requirement. In fact the other just said, "What's this?" and when  I explained she just dropped it on the pile without comment and went on to the next question, obviously uninterested because it was not a masters degree. 

Further, when I had the interview (yes 25 years ago), the immigration officer (one officer) was keen for me to share how my degrees/knowledge/skills/experience was helpful to the development of Thailand.

 

Also, he asked me to explain, in detail, how I was sharing these items with my Thai colleagues, and share some examples of how I could clearly see that my Thai colleagues had gained from this. The Imm. officer was clearly/specifically very focused on this subject and a lot of time was devoted to it. A couple of times he mentioned something like 'to get PR foreigners must be able to explain/prove they are strongly/specifically contributing to the development of Thailand'. 

 

In fact my agent discussed this before we* went to the interview and suggested I prepare some bullet points on these points. I did that and after discussion with the Imm officer I gave him the document I had prepared which he scanned for a minute then said 'thank you' and found a place to put it in his documents. 

*The one Imm. officer spoke perfect English as did my agent. There was no Thai language in the interview. The Imm. officer invited my agent to join the interview however he did mention clearly that the agent should not speak during the interview. 

 

I had 2 masters degrees at that time, the officer did mention 'this is to your advantge'. He did also mention, If a PR applicant has no university degrees but can explain in strong detail their skills etc., and how they are sharing this with their Thai colleagues then this can be considered. 

 

Yes 25 years ago and perhaps many factors/policies/attitudes have changed/adjusted, but I wonder if the above might be relevant.  Perhaps folks who have had the interview in much more recent times might share some comments. 

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Further, when I had the interview (yes 25 years ago), the immigration officer (one officer) was keen for me to share how my degrees/knowledge/skills/experience was helpful to the development of Thailand.

 

Also, he asked me to explain, in detail, how I was sharing these items with my Thai colleagues, and share some examples of how I could clearly see that my Thai colleagues had gained from this. The Imm. officer was clearly/specifically very focused on this subject and a lot of time was devoted to it. A couple of times he mentioned something like 'to get PR foreigners must be able to explain/prove they are strongly/specifically contributing to the development of Thailand'. 

 

In fact my agent discussed this before we* went to the interview and suggested I prepare some bullet points on these points. I did that and after discussion with the Imm officer I gave him the document I had prepared which he scanned for a minute then said 'thank you' and found a place to put it in his documents. 

*The one Imm. officer spoke perfect English as did my agent. There was no Thai language in the interview. The Imm. officer invited my agent to join the interview however he did mention clearly that the agent should not speak during the interview. 

 

I had 2 masters degrees at that time, the officer did mention 'this is to your advantge'. He did also mention, If a PR applicant has no university degrees but can explain in strong detail their skills etc., and how they are sharing this with their Thai colleagues then this can be considered. 

 

Yes 25 years ago and perhaps many factors/policies/attitudes have changed/adjusted, but I wonder if the above might be relevant.  Perhaps folks who have had the interview in much more recent times might share some comments. 

It is a requirement that PR applicants should be contributing to Thai society or somesuch and they do sometimes ask that. I wasn't asked that question but had already set it out the answer in my covering letter which they never referred to in my two interviews. It does seem to be a very broad requirement with a very low bar. I have never heared of anything being rejected for not contributing enough. It just seems to be a hoop that they like to make you jump through. Perhaps it is just a deliberate trap to encourage people to say they do volunteer work and then catch them for working without WPs.  I know someone who was asked that question in the panel interview.  He said his contribution was having a wife and Thai kids which seemed a rather feeble answer to me, as anyone can get married and reproduce without making any contribution to Thai society at large.  

 

Citizenship is a lot more pragmatic.  They just want to see receipts for your hard cash contributions to Thai society in the form of chartiable donations. Most easier to assess. 

[jombangkok]

6 hours ago, onthemoon said:

1. Hand in a copy of your highest degree. Additional certificates from uni won't hurt.

 

2. Yes, you need to hand in your PND90/91 for the past three years. If you don't have three years full yet, you will have to wait for another year before you can apply. You will have to ask your company for the PND50 and PND1.

 

3. Any company documents will have to be provided by the company. It does not matter whether you are the owner or an employee. In fact, if you own a company, you will technically be an employee of your own company.

1. I guess this will be difficult, I'm from Sweden which has a gymnasium system and all I've got is the final grades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)

 

2. The problem is that should have them, but I don't have the actual files. So my question is wether I can get them from the department of revenue or not. Like, print new copies or something.

 

3. Still not sure about this, in the document it's either or so I'll try to figure this out more.

 

4 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I am not sure if submitting certificates for universtity courses that are not degrees are worth the trouble, if you have to get them certified. They tend to just tick the boxes and ignore everything else. For something which is not a degree, they have no box to tick. It might be more worthwhile if it is a professional qualification or something directly related to your job which relates to how you can bring expertise and training to help Thai colleagues. 

 

I remember being told that submitting my certificate from the Ed Ministry for passing the Por. 6 exam for foreigners that used to be required for foreign teachers to teach in Thailand (most failed and had to resit over and over, meaning that they could only get 3 month visa extensions and WPs) would make a big difference in view of the Thai language requirement. In fact the other just said, "What's this?" and when  I explained she just dropped it on the pile without comment and went on to the next question, obviously uninterested because it was not a masters degree. 

Many countries (mine included) has this system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school) which is my highest "degree" in this case. Do they have a box for this or do I need to do something specific for this? 

 

3 hours ago, anthonyT said:

...
Apologies for the long post, but hope it helps.

I would love the contact details, thank you

[anthonyT]

18 minutes ago, jombangkok said:

I would love contact details, thank you

Hi Jombangkok

 

Contact details
The Correct

Translation Service

080 186 9186

nsakulchai@gmail.com

 

Name is Natta Sakulchai, nickname Joy

 

I paid 1800 TBH for i think 3 pages plus mailing fee

 

Suggest you get her line contact details or her email and then sent her pictures or scans of the documents you need translated. She will check if all stamps are ok and if the Thai ministry of Foreign affairs will accept or if you are missing something. She will then already work on the translation until she gets the official documents from you, which need to be attached to the translation as part of the legalization process.

 

Hope that helps.

Ant.

[onthemoon]

4 hours ago, jombangkok said:

1. I guess this will be difficult, I'm from Sweden which has a gymnasium system and all I've got is the final grades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)

 

2. The problem is that should have them, but I don't have the actual files. So my question is wether I can get them from the department of revenue or not. Like, print new copies or something.

 

3. Still not sure about this, in the document it's either or so I'll try to figure this out more.

 

Many countries (mine included) has this system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school) which is my highest "degree" in this case. Do they have a box for this or do I need to do something specific for this? 

 

I would love the contact details, thank you

Gymnasium: Sweden seems to have the same school system as in Germany or Austria. The degree you get when you graduate (Abitur [DE] or Matura [AT], I don't know what it is called in [SE]) can correctly be translated as "Highschool Degree". 

 

PNG90/91: If you worked and paid taxes, but you simply cannot find this paperwork, you can indeed go to the revenue department and request copies. You need your tax ID, bring your passport, and fill in a form stating why you need the copies. They will also certify the copies, which I think you will need. Minimal fee.

[jombangkok]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

Gymnasium: Sweden seems to have the same school system as in Germany or Austria. The degree you get when you graduate (Abitur [DE] or Matura [AT], I don't know what it is called in [SE]) can correctly be translated as "Highschool Degree". 

 

PNG90/91: If you worked and paid taxes, but you simply cannot find this paperwork, you can indeed go to the revenue department and request copies. You need your tax ID, bring your passport, and fill in a form stating why you need the copies. They will also certify the copies, which I think you will need. Minimal fee.

Thank you!

 

The original final-grade papers I have from the school doesn't actually have any kind of text indicating a degree, not even in Swedish. I hope it is still accepted.

 

90/91, that's great, I will get myself over there and figure this out. I have all the information, just not the papers. Them certifying it is good as well, so in either case I'd have to go.

[onthemoon]

11 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Thank you!

 

The original final-grade papers I have from the school doesn't actually have any kind of text indicating a degree, not even in Swedish. I hope it is still accepted.

 

90/91, that's great, I will get myself over there and figure this out. I have all the information, just not the papers. Them certifying it is good as well, so in either case I'd have to go.

Great, and good luck!

[jombangkok]

I would like to ask again if someone possibly have a contact for a freelance agent who can go through my application, documents and generally "help out". The more I progress into gathering the documents, I do think these 250k THB agencies are a bit steep. But I'd still like for someone to at least have a look you know?

[jombangkok]

The document also states that I need ภ.ง.ด. 1 and "copy of the filed personal income tax returns" which I assume can be 50 tawi? It does state ภงด50 but it is as an example.

 

The document states that "which must be officially certified by the revenue officers". I have called and they have told me they can not provide this. And my company obviously can not certify them as they are not revenue officers. What do I do here?
 

[jombangkok]

Seems like they just opened applications today https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Seems like they just opened applications today https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744

Resident Visa?  Why does Thai Immigration cause confusion? Including possible confusion for applicants and/or for holders. 

 

It's been said before by Thai Immigration and the Interior Ministry that the correct name is 'Thai Certificate of Residence'  (also commonly called Thai Permanent Residence - PR).

 

It's also been said before that it's not a visa. An easy distinction is:

 

- A Thai Certificate of Residence is for lifetime - there is no expiry date - and therefore there is no renewal process (it expires on the death of the holder).

 

- A Thai Visa is permission to physically be in Thailand and has an expiry date, some visas can be renewed or extended by lodging an application for renewal/extention . But renewal/extension is not automatic. 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

- A Thai Certificate of Residence is for lifetime - there is no expiry date - and therefore there is no renewal process (it expires on the death of the holder).

I beg to differ: to keep your PR, you have to get your yearly stamps or never leave the country. If you leave the country without your yearly stamps, the PR will be cancelled. It is not permanent and not for lifetime; you can lose it easily.

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I beg to differ: to keep your PR, you have to get your yearly stamps or never leave the country. If you leave the country without your yearly stamps, the PR will be cancelled. It is not permanent and not for lifetime; you can lose it easily.

Well that's your interpretation, i believe many others don't interpret it your way.

 

Also, when you have PR and you depart Thailand temporarily/permenantly where's some administration items which need attention ... Exit/re-entry stamp. 

 

You call it 'yearly stamps', is that an accurate terminology? 

 

Some other countries have similar requirements.

 

It's not the end of PR (if you don't follow the boring exit/re-entry stamp process) as you seem to want to say. 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Resident Visa?  Why does Thai Immigration cause confusion? Including possible confusion for applicants and/or for holders. 

 

It's been said before by Thai Immigration and the Interior Ministry that the correct name is 'Thai Certificate of Residence'  (also commonly called Thai Permanent Residence - PR).

 

It's also been said before that it's not a visa. An easy distinction is:

 

- A Thai Certificate of Residence is for lifetime - there is no expiry date - and therefore there is no renewal process (it expires on the death of the holder).

 

- A Thai Visa is permission to physically be in Thailand and has an expiry date, some visas can be renewed or extended by lodging an application for renewal/extention . But renewal/extension is not automatic. 

Correct.

 

The British Embassy website makes the same mistake -

 

'If you have a Thai resident visa and usually live in Thailand but you cannot return within the required year, the Thailand authorities will grant you an extension to your compulsory return deadline. You must return to Thailand as soon as you can.'

 

I suppose they would say that if the Thai Foreign Ministry describes it that way, why should the Brits say differently!

 

It's not that important.PR's will be able to figure out what the Thailand Foreign Ministry means. I doubt whether those responsible for the Embassy website have the slightest idea.They probably just scribble down what they're told.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I beg to differ: to keep your PR, you have to get your yearly stamps or never leave the country. If you leave the country without your yearly stamps, the PR will be cancelled. It is not permanent and not for lifetime; you can lose it easily.

Well that's your interpretation, I believe many others don't interpret it your way.

 

Also, when you have PR and you depart Thailand temporarily/permenantly there's some administration items which need attention ... Exit/re-entry stamp. 

 

You call it 'yearly stamps', is that an accurate terminology? 

 

Some other countries have similar requirements.

 

It's not the end of PR (if you don't follow the boring exit/re-entry stamp process) as you seem to want to say. 

[DrJoy]

22 hours ago, jombangkok said:

I have called and they have told me they can not provide this

Wrong info.

 

I have done this at the Revenue Dept HQ, Phahon yothin Road.

 

They can certify your tax records. Fee = 7 baht a page.

 

Carry your original PP and tax number. 

 

Address -

 

90, Soi Phahon Yothin 7, Phahon Yothin Rd., Sam Sen Nai, Bangkok 10400 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Well that's your interpretation, I believe many others don't interpret it your way.

 

Also, when you have PR and you depart Thailand temporarily/permenantly there's some administration items which need attention ... Exit/re-entry stamp. 

 

You call it 'yearly stamps', is that an accurate terminology? 

 

Some other countries have similar requirements.

 

It's not the end of PR (if you don't follow the boring exit/re-entry stamp process) as you seem to want to say. 

Many farang countries have similar PR systems. The US green card is almost the same. If you stay outside the US for more than a year, your green card is cancelled. 

 

The UK has developed an ugly racist side that manifested itself with Brexit and is put into practice by Tory governments.  There was a nasty case of a Singaporean woman who was deported, despite having Indefinite Leave to Remain (PR) and living for 25 years in the UK with her British husband and son. Of course she had never applied for British citizenship because she was reluctant to give up Singaporean citizenship.  She fell foul of the PR residence requirements because she had to go on an extended trip to Singapore to take care of her terminally ill mother and returned to her family in the UK when her mother died. She started receiving notices that her PR would be cancelled and tried to appeal to no avail. Then one day the police showed up at the house and dragged her off to a detention centre a couple of hundred miles from her home, making hard for her family to visit her without letting her pack a bag. Two weeks later she was put on a plane to Singapore with only the clothes she stood up in and 5 pounds in her pocket. She had only a sister left there, with whom she wasn't close, and had to beg to stay with her and sponge off her. Her crippled husband in the UK had no one to take care of him, as theire son had had to move to another city for work.  I am not sure if she ever got back to the UK. The family had no money to pursue an expensive legal case against the Home Office. I have never heard anything as horrible as that happening in Thailand. But the UK courts make rulings that foreign rapists can't be deported after finishing their sentences because it would cause undue suffering to their families in the UK. 

[jombangkok]

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

....

They can certify your tax records. Fee = 7 baht a page.

Carry your original PP and tax number. 

Thank you, could you expand on what PP is? I googled and, do you mean ภ.พ.? I have never seen any of these examples (in google images) and for sure I have no original nor copy with me and I save a lot of documents. Most documents I have are also digital, payslips, 50tawis, ภงด91s etc. I do have the TIN as a physical copy so there's that..