Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[camerata]

If anything, we are supposed to carry the Alien Book with us for identification inside Thailand. But I think either would explain the lack of a visa in the passport. I don't know why they can't just transfer the special passport stamp you get when you receive PR to future passports... or just give us a credit card sized ID.

[sas_cars]

If anything, we are supposed to carry the Alien Book with us for identification inside Thailand. But I think either would explain the lack of a visa in the passport. I don't know why they can't just transfer the special passport stamp you get when you receive PR to future passports... or just give us a credit card sized ID.

Maybe the number of PR applicants is too few/year for them to seriously consider overhauling their current system and upgrade it for something more modern or better. Maybe not worth the investment

[NewlyMintedThai]

Just note your ID number (13 digits, beginning with 8) somewhere. If you ever got into a "situation", any police officer would be able to check your details from their desktop.

[camerata]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

[Arkady]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

I think a large part of the problem is that residence book and alien certificate are both mentioned in the 1979 Immigration Act as I think they have been in all the Immigration Acts since the original 1927 one when the Immigration Dept was founded which explains why the system is so antiquated. That means that an overhaul of the system for registering PRs would require a new act of Parliament and they are many more priorities for the politicians. That being the case, they could only add ID cards for PRs via ministerial regulations or police orders but couldn't do away with the two books without amending the law. There are always vested interests that resist change, .e.g Immigration would not want to do away with the people who make the residence books and send information to the police to make the alien books and police would probably feel they were losing control over PRs too, if they could no longer make the red books up for PR aliens in their precincts. ID cards for minorities and alien labourers is a no brainer because there is no statutory legislation governing them and it all has to be done through cabinet resolutions, ministerial regulations and national police orders.

It all depends on the Interior Ministry because they control both the process of PR application and ID card issuance. One day we will wake up to find they amended the law and we need to apply for ID cards. Thai Owl already appears to have one.

[sas_cars]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

I think a large part of the problem is that residence book and alien certificate are both mentioned in the 1979 Immigration Act as I think they have been in all the Immigration Acts since the original 1927 one when the Immigration Dept was founded which explains why the system is so antiquated. That means that an overhaul of the system for registering PRs would require a new act of Parliament and they are many more priorities for the politicians. That being the case, they could only add ID cards for PRs via ministerial regulations or police orders but couldn't do away with the two books without amending the law. There are always vested interests that resist change, .e.g Immigration would not want to do away with the people who make the residence books and send information to the police to make the alien books and police would probably feel they were losing control over PRs too, if they could no longer make the red books up for PR aliens in their precincts. ID cards for minorities and alien labourers is a no brainer because there is no statutory legislation governing them and it all has to be done through cabinet resolutions, ministerial regulations and national police orders.

It all depends on the Interior Ministry because they control both the process of PR application and ID card issuance. One day we will wake up to find they amended the law and we need to apply for ID cards. Thai Owl already appears to have one.

It may take more than our life time to finally wake up to the news. lol . Maybe the PR holders of next generations would wake up rather to the news

[Arkady]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

I think a large part of the problem is that residence book and alien certificate are both mentioned in the 1979 Immigration Act as I think they have been in all the Immigration Acts since the original 1927 one when the Immigration Dept was founded which explains why the system is so antiquated. That means that an overhaul of the system for registering PRs would require a new act of Parliament and they are many more priorities for the politicians. That being the case, they could only add ID cards for PRs via ministerial regulations or police orders but couldn't do away with the two books without amending the law. There are always vested interests that resist change, .e.g Immigration would not want to do away with the people who make the residence books and send information to the police to make the alien books and police would probably feel they were losing control over PRs too, if they could no longer make the red books up for PR aliens in their precincts. ID cards for minorities and alien labourers is a no brainer because there is no statutory legislation governing them and it all has to be done through cabinet resolutions, ministerial regulations and national police orders.

It all depends on the Interior Ministry because they control both the process of PR application and ID card issuance. One day we will wake up to find they amended the law and we need to apply for ID cards. Thai Owl already appears to have one.

It may take more than our life time to finally wake up to the news. lol . Maybe the PR holders of next generations would wake up rather to the news

Well, yes. That came out sounding more optimistic than I intended.

[thaiowl]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

I think a large part of the problem is that residence book and alien certificate are both mentioned in the 1979 Immigration Act as I think they have been in all the Immigration Acts since the original 1927 one when the Immigration Dept was founded which explains why the system is so antiquated. That means that an overhaul of the system for registering PRs would require a new act of Parliament and they are many more priorities for the politicians. That being the case, they could only add ID cards for PRs via ministerial regulations or police orders but couldn't do away with the two books without amending the law. There are always vested interests that resist change, .e.g Immigration would not want to do away with the people who make the residence books and send information to the police to make the alien books and police would probably feel they were losing control over PRs too, if they could no longer make the red books up for PR aliens in their precincts. ID cards for minorities and alien labourers is a no brainer because there is no statutory legislation governing them and it all has to be done through cabinet resolutions, ministerial regulations and national police orders.

It all depends on the Interior Ministry because they control both the process of PR application and ID card issuance. One day we will wake up to find they amended the law and we need to apply for ID cards. Thai Owl already appears to have one.

Haven't got it yet. The tesabaan took my photo and scanned my finger prints. They said the card would be ready by the end of this month.

[tamvine]

Need urgent Advice:

I had my mother living based on my BOI visa for past years. Now since I have received my PR how do I change her visa. I just came to know it should be done within 30 days and I am already at 25 days.

Please help advice on documents needed and procedure and which section at CW will take care of it. Will it be required my mother also to be present? Will it be done within same day? Any other valuable advice....

[Mario2008]

It is not the visa but the reson for the extension of stay that changes. Should not be difficult, it is only the category under which she applies that changes and the documents that you need to supply as it will now be based on being a dependent on your PR status.

She will definately have to go with you.

Edit:

She will now ask for an extension under 2.19

You will need to show your PR docuement and copy of alien registration book. She needs to proof the relationship, just as hse used to do.

Infact everything should be the same for her, but you now need to proof your PR.

Can't hurt to cal them, as I never have seen this before so might be additional requirements not in the books.

[ubonjoe]

Need urgent Advice:

I had my mother living based on my BOI visa for past years. Now since I have received my PR how do I change her visa. I just came to know it should be done within 30 days and I am already at 25 days.

Please help advice on documents needed and procedure and which section at CW will take care of it. Will it be required my mother also to be present? Will it be done within same day? Any other valuable advice....

From police order 777/2551.

2.19 In the case of being a family member of a Thai resident (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children): Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.

The documents required should not be much different than previous extensions except for your residency book copies and house book.

It will same procedure as any other extension at CW.

[tamvine]

Need urgent Advice:

I had my mother living based on my BOI visa for past years. Now since I have received my PR how do I change her visa. I just came to know it should be done within 30 days and I am already at 25 days.

Please help advice on documents needed and procedure and which section at CW will take care of it. Will it be required my mother also to be present? Will it be done within same day? Any other valuable advice....

From police order 777/2551.

2.19 In the case of being a family member of a Thai resident (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children): Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.

The documents required should not be much different than previous extensions except for your residency book copies and house book.

It will same procedure as any other extension at CW.

Thankyou ubonjoe and Mario 2008, very useful information. Only if you know the forms needed let me know else will figure it out at CW.

[ubonjoe]

The standard TM7 form for extension should be all that is needed.

[Caprelo]

(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.

I went to the Main Police office on Rama 1 and they told me to go to Chaingwattana, is it possible to get this part ready before the deadline? Any help to clarify this part would be greatly appreciated. I am from the States of this matter in the process.

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.

I went to the Main Police office on Rama 1 and they told me to go to Chaingwattana, is it possible to get this part ready before the deadline? Any help to clarify this part would be greatly appreciated. I am from the States of this matter in the process.

Thanks.

You need to apply for a criminal record check in your own country and have it certified by your embassy, as well as having a criminal record check done by the Thai police. They want to know if you have a criminal record in your own country and if you have one in Thailand.

It is unlikely you will succeed in doing so within 2 weeks time. Most countries take considerable longer to process.

[ubonjoe]

If you are from the US you can get the criminal background check done by the FBI. Then it has to be certified by the state department in DC. And then by the Thai embassy or one of the consulates in the US.

The embassy cannot certify any document.

Info on background checks here: http://travel.state....ncies_1201.html

I was informed by the embassy that they do have fingerprint cards that you can then take to the Special Branch police for the finger printing.

You do not have enough time to get the above done before the 31st. It would be best to wait until mid next year to get background check done since it has to be done within 6 months of application date.

Edited December 13, 2012 by ubonjoe

[stbkk]

You do not have enough time to get the above done before the 31st. It would be best to wait until mid next year to get background check done since it has to be done within 6 months of application date.

If I were you I would check with the PR department. I did not have my police check results when I submitted my application, and they said no problem just bring it in when it arrives. You will probably find the submission is an iterative process anyway, unless you have managed to get all of the documents 100% correct first time! (I certainly didn't manage it, and it did not affect my application).

[Arkady]

You do not have enough time to get the above done before the 31st. It would be best to wait until mid next year to get background check done since it has to be done within 6 months of application date.

If I were you I would check with the PR department. I did not have my police check results when I submitted my application, and they said no problem just bring it in when it arrives. You will probably find the submission is an iterative process anyway, unless you have managed to get all of the documents 100% correct first time! (I certainly didn't manage it, and it did not affect my application).

My friend, who is American, applied in 2011 and was allowed to submit the US criminal record clearance and one or two other documents from overseas several weeks after the deadline. i don't think he even started collecting the documents until just before Christmas when they opened for applications. Why wait another year, if you are qualified now? Go for it. There is time to obtain all the Thai documents you need before the year end and they will be understanding about documents that have to come from overseas after that. As Stbkk says, you are unlikely to get everything right the first time, even though you think it is perfect, but, if they can see that you have most of it and are obviously qualified, they will give you slack on timing. My friend had his panel interview at Immigration several months ago.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Arkady

[tombkk]

If anything, we are supposed to carry the Alien Book with us for identification inside Thailand. But I think either would explain the lack of a visa in the passport. I don't know why they can't just transfer the special passport stamp you get when you receive PR to future passports... or just give us a credit card sized ID.

Maybe the number of PR applicants is too few/year for them to seriously consider overhauling their current system and upgrade it for something more modern or better. Maybe not worth the investment

About 300 PR applications are accepted per year on average, I understand.

[tombkk]

My ID number was on the driving licence I showed the cop, but he was doing things by the numbers and wanted to see a passport.

@ sas_cars Yes, I think we are too few to warrant a new ID system. Putting us on an existing system would make more sense.

I think a large part of the problem is that residence book and alien certificate are both mentioned in the 1979 Immigration Act as I think they have been in all the Immigration Acts since the original 1927 one when the Immigration Dept was founded which explains why the system is so antiquated. That means that an overhaul of the system for registering PRs would require a new act of Parliament and they are many more priorities for the politicians. That being the case, they could only add ID cards for PRs via ministerial regulations or police orders but couldn't do away with the two books without amending the law. There are always vested interests that resist change, .e.g Immigration would not want to do away with the people who make the residence books and send information to the police to make the alien books and police would probably feel they were losing control over PRs too, if they could no longer make the red books up for PR aliens in their precincts. ID cards for minorities and alien labourers is a no brainer because there is no statutory legislation governing them and it all has to be done through cabinet resolutions, ministerial regulations and national police orders.

It all depends on the Interior Ministry because they control both the process of PR application and ID card issuance. One day we will wake up to find they amended the law and we need to apply for ID cards. Thai Owl already appears to have one.

The law can be changed. The books don't make any sense at all in the 21st century, an ID card with chip is all that is needed.

[Arkady]

If anything, we are supposed to carry the Alien Book with us for identification inside Thailand. But I think either would explain the lack of a visa in the passport. I don't know why they can't just transfer the special passport stamp you get when you receive PR to future passports... or just give us a credit card sized ID.

Maybe the number of PR applicants is too few/year for them to seriously consider overhauling their current system and upgrade it for something more modern or better. Maybe not worth the investment

About 300 PR applications are accepted per year on average, I understand.

It's probably a police turf thing as the residence and alien books are both issued by the police and ID cards are issued by district offices. The police can't argue for ID cards because that would put many of them out a job, even though Immigration could easily control the issue of ID cards by sending the authorisation and details over to the district office in the same way they send them to your police station so you can get a red book. There are quite a few of them working in those two sections that handle issue of new and duplicate books and endorsements respectively and none of them want a transfer to the Immigration counters at Swampy.

Re legislation this is also very difficult for anything not on the government's own list of priorities, however simple an amendment might be. The 2012 Nationality Act amendments on behalf of displaced Thais along the borders took about 10 years of constant pushing by NGOs. No one is pushing for our ID cards.

[kraxlhuber]

Good information and worth pinning

Hey what the heck?

Why going though that arduant procedure and apply for a Residence Permit.

The Yellow Taban Booklet does the same miracle when going through the Thai Only channel at the airport-

no taxman ever knocks on your door,

you dont have to be married or after a divorce leave the coubtry and reapply for a residence Permit

You do not have to pay the outrageous 195.000 Baht for the pleasure to stay/ live in the LOS

AND if you hAVE KIDS WITH THE mISSUS AND THEY HAVE A FOREIGN (AND ) Thai passport then the trouble starts as the residence Permit is for you only ( eg. have aThai Wife) My son ( half Thai) becomes of fhe age of 18 and wouldlike to join the army/navy/airforce= not possible, (Actually that useless information belongs to another topic) talk about race discrimination, Pfui thats german and means shame on them

I am married (maybe not for much longer) have 2 teenaged kids and have a retirement visa,

I only have to send a letter every 3 moths to my immigration office in the province

and every year go to the Immigration office there and renew my 1 year visa and reentry permit @ about 200 USD cost

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think your understanding of PR is flawed. Anyway, if you're happy with your current status, stick with it.

And bravo for your sons wanting to serve their country rather than shirk their duties like most people's kids here.

[Arkady]

Good information and worth pinning

Hey what the heck?

Why going though that arduant procedure and apply for a Residence Permit.

The Yellow Taban Booklet does the same miracle when going through the Thai Only channel at the airport-

no taxman ever knocks on your door,

you dont have to be married or after a divorce leave the coubtry and reapply for a residence Permit

You do not have to pay the outrageous 195.000 Baht for the pleasure to stay/ live in the LOS

AND if you hAVE KIDS WITH THE mISSUS AND THEY HAVE A FOREIGN (AND ) Thai passport then the trouble starts as the residence Permit is for you only ( eg. have aThai Wife) My son ( half Thai) becomes of fhe age of 18 and wouldlike to join the army/navy/airforce= not possible, (Actually that useless information belongs to another topic) talk about race discrimination, Pfui thats german and means shame on them

I am married (maybe not for much longer) have 2 teenaged kids and have a retirement visa,

I only have to send a letter every 3 moths to my immigration office in the province

and every year go to the Immigration office there and renew my 1 year visa and reentry permit @ about 200 USD cost

I don't understand why you think your sons would not be permitted to join the Thai military, if you were to become a PR. Actually the age of majority in Thai law is 20 not 18.

I am also puzzled as to why you are saying you are not interested in applying for PR at all when you are clearly not qualified for it, if you are on a retirement visa. So it is fortunate that you not interested. I hope for your sake that they don't raise the bar on retirement visas in future and make it harder or impossible for you to make the cut. For my part I am happy with benefits I have derived from PR which are well worth the 52k I paid for it, although I do wish they included freedom from work permits.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Arkady

[lopburi3]

Actually he would likely qualify under section 2.18 at half the cost if forced to find another way so loss of retirement status would not likely be a major concern - nor should it be.

2.18 In the case of a family

member of a Thai(applicable

only to parents, spouse,

child, adopted child or child

of his/her spouse):

Permission will be

granted for a period of

not more than 1 yearat a

time.

[skyaslimit]

Hi guys

Just to keep all of you posted, I finally recieved my Thabian Baan with 13 digits starting with 8, after 2 months and 6 days .

Cheers

[Neeranam]

Does any married guy who got PR regret not getting citizenship instead ? From what I see it's easier and had more benefits.

[brianinbangkok]

Does any married guy who got PR regret not getting citizenship instead ? From what I see it's easier and had more benefits.

Well I got my PR in 2006 class of 2005.

At the time you needed to first have a PR and then after a few years of having a PR you could apply for citizenship. So at the time it was not possible for a male, as far as I understand to skip the PR and go straight for the citizenship.

However I also had the same thought "why would you not go for the citizenship now you can skip the PR".

As only recently the backlog of PR's has been cleared (most I hope).

Only people that apply now may have to ask why not go straight for citizenship.

I know if I had been able to do that in 2005 I would have skipped PR and gone staight for citizenship, no WP and own land on my own name are enough benefits compaired to the PR for me.

So anybody chip in and explain why we will not see a massive decrease in PR applications ?

Edited December 26, 2012 by brianinbangkok

[lopburi3]

As said in above it was not an option until very recently for males to obtain citizenship without first obtaining PR. But there are still many countries that do not allow dual nationality; so for them it may not be such an easy choice.

[Arkady]

Does any married guy who got PR regret not getting citizenship instead ? From what I see it's easier and had more benefits.

No need for regrets. If you are married to a Thai (for 3 years without children and 1 year with a child together) and still working, you can put in your application for citizenship as soon as you have got your residence book, alien book and blue tabien baan and the application fee is only 5,000 baht. Special Branch is open for applications every working day of the year. It may take many years to be processed. Meanwhile you have your PR status.

If you are not married to a Thai you will have to wait five years from the date of issue of your residence book, according to current ministerial regulations. My recent understanding is that some people asked Special Branch to accept their applications a few years ago (and there is a thread about it on TV) based on 5 years on WP but less than 5 years PR which is ostensibly allowed by the Nationality Act but these applications were not successful at the MoI level.