Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[THAIJAMES]

Anyone have experience renewing their 6 months check late?

I applied for PR in Bangkok but for the last few years I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai.

However all the sudden the new boss here refuses to renew and says that I need to do it in Bangkok as he does not have the authority.

Unfortunately I won't be able to go to Bangkok for a few more days and I will be past my due date for appearance.

Anybody know what the consequences are?

Thanks in advance.

[stbkk]

If I were you, I would make every effort to get there before it expires. One of the guys who knows more about it than me may have the definitive answer, but I would hate to think your application might lapse for the sake of a day or two!

[ubonjoe]

Anyone have experience renewing their 6 months check late?

I applied for PR in Bangkok but for the last few years I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai.

However all the sudden the new boss here refuses to renew and says that I need to do it in Bangkok as he does not have the authority.

Unfortunately I won't be able to go to Bangkok for a few more days and I will be past my due date for appearance.

Anybody know what the consequences are?

Thanks in advance.

That is rubbish. Any immigration office can do the 6 month extension. You should call 1178 or 1111 to get it sorted out.

If you do not do the extension on time you will be on an overstay of 500 baht a day. They would probably do the extension even with few days of overstay.

[THAIJAMES]

If I were you, I would make every effort to get there before it expires. One of the guys who knows more about it than me may have the definitive answer, but I would hate to think your application might lapse for the sake of a day or two!

Thanks for the answer, Normally I would have done so and gone right away, however The boss of immigration at Chiang Mai Airport office assured me there would be no problems being late and I could do it this week on my scheduled trip to Bangkok, which will be past the deadline. I am now having seconds thought if I should believe her.

[THAIJAMES]

Anyone have experience renewing their 6 months check late?

I applied for PR in Bangkok but for the last few years I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai.

However all the sudden the new boss here refuses to renew and says that I need to do it in Bangkok as he does not have the authority.

Unfortunately I won't be able to go to Bangkok for a few more days and I will be past my due date for appearance.

Anybody know what the consequences are?

Thanks in advance.

That is rubbish. Any immigration office can do the 6 month extension. You should call 1178 or 1111 to get it sorted out.

If you do not do the extension on time you will be on an overstay of 500 baht a day. They would probably do the extension even with few days of overstay.

I agree, I have tried calling PR bangkok for the last 10 days with no reply. 1178 and 1111 does not get me anywhere either. If any one knows a direct number to the PR section in BKK I would appreciate it.

My passport is now at another immigration office (near the 700 year complex) to see if they can sort it out, however they said probably no reply to at least tomorrow

Edited March 9, 2015 by THAIJAMES
moved reply from quoted text

[Andrew Eldritch]

I have previously tried to request 6 month extensions at Jomtien and Chachoengsao immigration offices. Both have told me I must do this in Bangkok. I have also asked Bangkok Immigration if I can request 6 month extensions elsewhere, they have told me I can only do it in Bangkok.

I originally applied for PR at Chaengwattana in 2009 when I lived in Bangkok. For several years I have used my Chonburi address on my 6 month extension applications and it has never been questioned by the Bangkok Immigration PR desk.

I have been able to get re-entry permits in other provinces. But I have not yet tried at the airport. Does anyone know if re-entry permits are available for people with "PR under consideration" status at the airport?

[Mario2008]

Your paperwork is handeld by BKK, so they do all your extensions.

You do not have PR stsutus yet, so would get a normal re-entry permit. Yes, you can get them at both Bangkok airports. At Suv. they cost an additional 200 baht service fee, but they fill in the form for you and they also supply the required photo.

[THAIJAMES]

I have previously tried to request 6 month extensions at Jomtien and Chachoengsao immigration offices. Both have told me I must do this in Bangkok. I have also asked Bangkok Immigration if I can request 6 month extensions elsewhere, they have told me I can only do it in Bangkok.

I originally applied for PR at Chaengwattana in 2009 when I lived in Bangkok. For several years I have used my Chonburi address on my 6 month extension applications and it has never been questioned by the Bangkok Immigration PR desk.

I have been able to get re-entry permits in other provinces. But I have not yet tried at the airport. Does anyone know if re-entry permits are available for people with "PR under consideration" status at the airport?

Thanks for the info, I wonder why they were able to give me 6 months extensions no problem for the last 2 years. You can easily get re-entry at the airport as long as you come ahead of time for the paperwork. In Chiang Mai it takes only 20 min but Bkk will probably be different.

[THAIJAMES]

Interesting turn of events.

I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai for the last 2 years or so. I originally applied in Bangkok in 2007. (Yes almost 8 years ago)

When I went to renew last week, the new boss said they could not do it and that I would have to do my 6 months renewal in Bangkok.

I have been trying all last week to call Bangkok to confirm.

Finally got through to Bangkok today and they said they won’t do it either because the stamps that I received in Chiang Mai are invalid as they should have never stamped my 6 months renewals.

So now I am in no-mans land with invalid stamps and soon to be an overstayer if not already.

Edited March 10, 2015 by THAIJAMES

[skyaslimit]

Interesting turn of events.

I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai for the last 2 years or so. I originally applied in Bangkok in 2007. (Yes almost 8 years ago)

When I went to renew last week, the new boss said they could not do it and that I would have to do my 6 months renewal in Bangkok.

I have been trying all last week to call Bangkok to confirm.

Finally got through to Bangkok today and they said they won’t do it either because the stamps that I received in Chiang Mai are invalid as they should have never stamped my 6 months renewals.

So now I am in no-mans land with invalid stamps and soon to be an overstayer if not already.

I suggest you should visit CW by yourself to sort it out, telephonic information may not be true.

[ubonjoe]

Interesting turn of events.

I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai for the last 2 years or so. I originally applied in Bangkok in 2007. (Yes almost 8 years ago)

When I went to renew last week, the new boss said they could not do it and that I would have to do my 6 months renewal in Bangkok.

I have been trying all last week to call Bangkok to confirm.

Finally got through to Bangkok today and they said they won’t do it either because the stamps that I received in Chiang Mai are invalid as they should have never stamped my 6 months renewals.

So now I am in no-mans land with invalid stamps and soon to be an overstayer if not already.

You may have to go to CW to get it sorted out.

It is not bad enough that they break the rules by CW being the only place you can apply for PR. Now they expect everybody to get their 6 months stamps there.

Waiting for over 7 years is real bad. Have you gotten any update on the status of your application.

[THAIJAMES]

Interesting turn of events.

I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai for the last 2 years or so. I originally applied in Bangkok in 2007. (Yes almost 8 years ago)

When I went to renew last week, the new boss said they could not do it and that I would have to do my 6 months renewal in Bangkok.

I have been trying all last week to call Bangkok to confirm.

Finally got through to Bangkok today and they said they won’t do it either because the stamps that I received in Chiang Mai are invalid as they should have never stamped my 6 months renewals.

So now I am in no-mans land with invalid stamps and soon to be an overstayer if not already.

You may have to go to CW to get it sorted out.

It is not bad enough that they break the rules by CW being the only place you can apply for PR. Now they expect everybody to get their 6 months stamps there.

Waiting for over 7 years is real bad. Have you gotten any update on the status of your application.

You are both probably right that I need to go in person. I went to see the big boss in CM a few minutes ago and they will review the laws to see if they have authority to issue a stamp or find a way out of this, it may take a day or two.

As far as updates, I have been calling every six months or so, for the last couple years that I enquired about my status, they said that it was with the interior ministry waiting to be signed. I am not sure why it was not signed in the last batch about a year ago. Was actually thinking about going to the interior ministry to find out, I am not sure if that is a bad idea.

I think under this new climate, everyone is scared of losing their job and stepping out of line.

[THAIJAMES]

Interesting turn of events.

I have been doing my 6 months renewals in Chiang Mai for the last 2 years or so. I originally applied in Bangkok in 2007. (Yes almost 8 years ago)

When I went to renew last week, the new boss said they could not do it and that I would have to do my 6 months renewal in Bangkok.

I have been trying all last week to call Bangkok to confirm.

Finally got through to Bangkok today and they said they won’t do it either because the stamps that I received in Chiang Mai are invalid as they should have never stamped my 6 months renewals.

So now I am in no-mans land with invalid stamps and soon to be an overstayer if not already.

You may have to go to CW to get it sorted out.

It is not bad enough that they break the rules by CW being the only place you can apply for PR. Now they expect everybody to get their 6 months stamps there.

Waiting for over 7 years is real bad. Have you gotten any update on the status of your application.

You are both probably right that I need to go in person. I went to see the big boss in CM a few minutes ago and they will review the laws to see if they have authority to issue a stamp or find a way out of this, it may take a day or two.

As far as updates, I have been calling every six months or so, for the last couple years that I enquired about my status, they said that it was with the interior ministry waiting to be signed. I am not sure why it was not signed in the last batch about a year ago. Was actually thinking about going to the interior ministry to find out, I am not sure if that is a bad idea.

I think under this new climate, everyone is scared of losing their job and stepping out of line.

Good News, the head office here in Chiang Mai called me to tell me that I can pickup my passport and take it to the local immigration office and they will take care of it.

[ubonjoe]

Good News, the head office here in Chiang Mai called me to tell me that I can pickup my passport and take it to the local immigration office and they will take care of it.

Great news.

Hope it works as they say it will.

[THAIJAMES]

Good News, the head office here in Chiang Mai called me to tell me that I can pickup my passport and take it to the local immigration office and they will take care of it.

Great news.

Hope it works as they say it will.

Thanks ubonjoe, I feel much relieved. Just picked up my passport from head office they have instructed the local office (where everyone goes to do their visas) to issue me with a renewal so they basically must comply. I will find out tomorrow.

For future reference, they have researched the relevant regulations and there is no rule that you must do your six month extension where you applied.

Also you are free to apply for PR in any office (as I was given the choice 8 years ago), however because officials are not familiar with the complicated PR process they advice you to do it in Bangkok.

I suspect that because of the current climate of fear, officials are reluctant to take any chances in cases out of the ordinary for fear that they will lose their job or more likely be transferred to a bad post.

This is why I think the head of the local office refused. She would not agree even after a week of insisting that they had the authority to do it.

Luckily at the local headquarters there were people that know me from my past business visa applications, and they kindly helped me.

This morning my contacts at local headquarters informed me that CW wasn't going to renew either. I guess that put them under pressure.

They asked me to be patient while they research the relevant laws. And tonight the boss issued the order for them to grant me an extension.

I guess the moral of the story is don't give up, where there is a will there is a way.

On the other hand, better to be more careful next time and not wait to renew at the last minute (one week before)

[onthemoon]

Good News, the head office here in Chiang Mai called me to tell me that I can pickup my passport and take it to the local immigration office and they will take care of it.

Great news.

Hope it works as they say it will.

Thanks ubonjoe, I feel much relieved. Just picked up my passport from head office they have instructed the local office (where everyone goes to do their visas) to issue me with a renewal so they basically must comply. I will find out tomorrow.

For future reference, they have researched the relevant regulations and there is no rule that you must do your six month extension where you applied.

Also you are free to apply for PR in any office (as I was given the choice 8 years ago), however because officials are not familiar with the complicated PR process they advice you to do it in Bangkok.

I suspect that because of the current climate of fear, officials are reluctant to take any chances in cases out of the ordinary for fear that they will lose their job or more likely be transferred to a bad post.

This is why I think the head of the local office refused. She would not agree even after a week of insisting that they had the authority to do it.

Luckily at the local headquarters there were people that know me from my past business visa applications, and they kindly helped me.

This morning my contacts at local headquarters informed me that CW wasn't going to renew either. I guess that put them under pressure.

They asked me to be patient while they research the relevant laws. And tonight the boss issued the order for them to grant me an extension.

I guess the moral of the story is don't give up, where there is a will there is a way.

On the other hand, better to be more careful next time and not wait to renew at the last minute (one week before)

If they are afraid to lose their job (or being transferred to an inactive post) if they make a mistake, just tell them that it will be a mistake if they don't give you the extension... and it would actually be true! ;-)

But of course, you can't talk like this to Thai government officials, sorry for my post.

[marino28]

If I don't have a work permit, can I apply for permanent residence if I meet the other regulation ?

[paz]

If I don't have a work permit, can I apply for permanent residence if I meet the other regulation ?

No.

[THAIJAMES]

Good News, the head office here in Chiang Mai called me to tell me that I can pickup my passport and take it to the local immigration office and they will take care of it.

Great news.

Hope it works as they say it will.

Thanks ubonjoe, I feel much relieved. Just picked up my passport from head office they have instructed the local office (where everyone goes to do their visas) to issue me with a renewal so they basically must comply. I will find out tomorrow.

For future reference, they have researched the relevant regulations and there is no rule that you must do your six month extension where you applied.

Also you are free to apply for PR in any office (as I was given the choice 8 years ago), however because officials are not familiar with the complicated PR process they advice you to do it in Bangkok.

I suspect that because of the current climate of fear, officials are reluctant to take any chances in cases out of the ordinary for fear that they will lose their job or more likely be transferred to a bad post.

This is why I think the head of the local office refused. She would not agree even after a week of insisting that they had the authority to do it.

Luckily at the local headquarters there were people that know me from my past business visa applications, and they kindly helped me.

This morning my contacts at local headquarters informed me that CW wasn't going to renew either. I guess that put them under pressure.

They asked me to be patient while they research the relevant laws. And tonight the boss issued the order for them to grant me an extension.

I guess the moral of the story is don't give up, where there is a will there is a way.

On the other hand, better to be more careful next time and not wait to renew at the last minute (one week before)

If they are afraid to lose their job (or being transferred to an inactive post) if they make a mistake, just tell them that it will be a mistake if they don't give you the extension... and it would actually be true! ;-)

But of course, you can't talk like this to Thai government officials, sorry for my post.

Unfortunately we are all at the mercy of the whims of what ever government official decides and are basically powerless to say anything because it may affect the outcome of our applications.

The main problem is that they are waisting time with useless, time consuming and agrevating bureaucratic processes instead of using their time on real issues like keeping out unwanted criminals or people that do not benefit Thai society out of the country.

I have been here 28 years and have complied strictly with all immigration requirements. You would think that getting permanent residence would be a non issue. The nonsense of having to run around for about two weeks, just so that a government official can protect themselves from liability. Something that only takes 15 minutes at CW and has absolutely no bearing on the application process.

Even after receiving orders from her bosses, she still asked me to wait another day until she could make absolutely sure. To be fair, she was very nice about it and in the end issued me with the extension.

But I can't help but feel that this is all bureaucratic nonsense. Thai immigration and many other government departments are in bad need of reform. Almost nothing is computerized, since everything is in paper, they can't bring up my history, for example that I have more than 20 years of applications at the Chiang Mai immigration office.

They couldn't even bring up my last renewal 6 months ago at the same office!

I my two weeks quest, I have talked to quite a few immigration officials, they know about the problem, but basically they are also powerless to change the system and must comply with useless regulations strictly.

Most of them are actually very hard working people putting long hours under strict control.

I believe that they overcome this powerlessness by when ever they are able to, over exerting their own power over the people they are suppose to serve ... us foreigners

[Arkady]

The bureaucracy, ignorance in certain offices (particularly upcountry) and bottom covering can be highly frustrating. Many people have to run around doing completely pointless things to apply for PR or citizenship. I had to find sponsors for my PR application because my employer was a rep office which did not actually disqualify me in the regulations but because they don't like companies that are not paying Thai tax, a reference from a senior bureaucrat was needed. For citizenship I had to spend 3 months running around different offices because they wanted me to change my nationality from Angrit to Britis in all my Thai documents. Clearly the inconsistency was created in the first place by the ignorance of Thai government departments that had previously thought English was a nationality.

[THAIJAMES]

Called PR Section to see if there was any updates on the process.

According to the lady officer all applicants (more than 400) had been approved and notices should go out within a couple months.

When I pressed her if the Interior minister had signed the applications, she said not yet but that it was imminent.

Let cross our fingers thats true

[Bubbha]

Thanks THAIJAMES for sharing this update. Did the PR officer indicate that applications have been approved by Interior and are waiting for Minister signature? Or, approved by Immigration and sent to Interior for processing?

[THAIJAMES]

Thanks THAIJAMES for sharing this update. Did the PR officer indicate that applications have been approved by Interior and are waiting for Minister signature? Or, approved by Immigration and sent to Interior for processing?

It sounded like they have been approved by Interior and waiting for signature. Because at first she said that it has been approved by the interior ministry and then I asked her if the minister had signed them all. Then she said not yet but expected soon and letters would go out within the next 1 or two months.

Having been waiting for almost 8 years, I am taking it with a grain of salt.

Wouldn't hurt to have someone else call in and confirm.

[THAIJAMES]

Regarding 6 months extensions you can do them in your home province.

I have been doing my 6 months extensions in Chiang Mai for the last 3 years even though I applied at CW.

This year I had big problems renewing at CM as the official there thought it was not possible, but they finally did it after a lot of run around.

The lady that I called today confirmed that an official letter was sent from Chiang Mai requesting clarification about me doing my extensions there instead of CW.

They replied that it was no problem to do so and that I can continue doing so if I have not received my PR yet.

[beeper]

I am considering applying for permanent residency under the Working/business category at the end of this year and have two questions:

1. I will have held non immigrant visa and WP continuously for 3 years and 3 months by end of 2015 and have filed tax returns for my earnings in 2012 (3 months) , 2013/2014 (12 months each). I assume having worked and filed a tax return for only 3 months in one of the three calendar years ( due to arriving in Oct 1 2012) is not a problem. Has anyone experienced any issues with this?

2. Once PR has been granted and all the paperwork has concluded I understand that the residency is forever. What are the obligation of minimum time to spend in the kingdom in each year to maintain residency status. I understand that travel abroad is obviously possible (with re-entry permits etc) but what is the minimum time to be spent in Thailand each year to not lose residency status? How long can one stay abroad in on trip and per year?

Appreciate advise on these two items

[ubonjoe]

I am considering applying for permanent residency under the Working/business category at the end of this year and have two questions:

1. I will have held non immigrant visa and WP continuously for 3 years and 3 months by end of 2015 and have filed tax returns for my earnings in 2012 (3 months) , 2013/2014 (12 months each). I assume having worked and filed a tax return for only 3 months in one of the three calendar years ( due to arriving in Oct 1 2012) is not a problem. Has anyone experienced any issues with this?

2. Once PR has been granted and all the paperwork has concluded I understand that the residency is forever. What are the obligation of minimum time to spend in the kingdom in each year to maintain residency status. I understand that travel abroad is obviously possible (with re-entry permits etc) but what is the minimum time to be spent in Thailand each year to not lose residency status? How long can one stay abroad in on trip and per year?

Appreciate advise on these two items

1. I think you will need three full years of tax returns. From: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_work_en.pdf

"7. Copy of the applicant’s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by the revenue officers"

Best to contact the section that handles PR applications at Chiang Wattana immigration to confirm.

2. The longest you can be out of the country is one year since that will be how long the re-entry permit will be valid for. There is no rule that states how long you have to be in country to maintain PR.

[Mario2008]

You have to be in Thailand at least 1 day per year or you lose your permanent residency.

[Arkady]

You have to be in Thailand at least 1 day per year or you lose your permanent residency.

Correct. You must return to Thailand before your one year re-entry permit expires. Otherwise you will be admitted on a transit visa and your PR will be automatically cancelled with no appeal or mitigating circumstances consider because it is specified like that in the Immigration Act. Then you have to stay in Thailand long enough to get a new re-entry permit which takes one working day. If you are going on a long trip, you can renew your re-entry permit before it expires and you will get another year.

[Arkady]

I am considering applying for permanent residency under the Working/business category at the end of this year and have two questions:

1. I will have held non immigrant visa and WP continuously for 3 years and 3 months by end of 2015 and have filed tax returns for my earnings in 2012 (3 months) , 2013/2014 (12 months each). I assume having worked and filed a tax return for only 3 months in one of the three calendar years ( due to arriving in Oct 1 2012) is not a problem. Has anyone experienced any issues with this?

2. Once PR has been granted and all the paperwork has concluded I understand that the residency is forever. What are the obligation of minimum time to spend in the kingdom in each year to maintain residency status. I understand that travel abroad is obviously possible (with re-entry permits etc) but what is the minimum time to be spent in Thailand each year to not lose residency status? How long can one stay abroad in on trip and per year?

Appreciate advise on these two items

You need 3 complete fiscal years' of tax receipts which in Thailand means Jan-Dec. Technically that means you will need 2013, 2014 and 2015 tax receipts and will be able to apply in December 2016. I know they sometimes allow you a couple of weeks after submitting the application to submit additional docs after the year end deadline but I have only heard this done for overseas police clearances and notarisations from overseas, not for any Thai documents. However, it might be worth asking them, if you can submit the 2015 tax receipts in January 2016. If your company gives you the PNG 50 (bis) form right after the New Year and you do your tax filing immediately and physically in person, not online, you should be able to get a notarised tax receipt from the Revenue Dept by mid January. I once did this for another purpose. I am not too positive about Immigration agreeing to this as most people would not be able to get them docs by end Jan. Companies usually don't give employees their PNG 50 (bis) before end January and the RD may takes its time processing the tax return, if it is not straight forward. However, you have nothing to lose by asking them.

[Payanak212]

Taken from the list of paperwork required for PR applications:

8. Copy of the applicant?s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the

   application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by

   the revenue officers

Who exactly are revenue officers? are these people at some central tax office or the accounts dept. in your place of work?