Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[ubonjoe]

Taken from the list of paperwork required for PR applications:

8. Copy of the applicant?s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the

   application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by

   the revenue officers

Who exactly are revenue officers? are these people at some central tax office or the accounts dept. in your place of work?

It would be done at your local Revenue Department Office. There is normally one in each district.

[beeper]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the issues I raised so far. based on the text of original requirements Payanak 2121 copies above:

"Copy of the applicant?s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the

application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by

the revenue officers"

If application period is opened in January 2016 ( as this year) is this still considered as 2015 application submission year (as usually submissions were in Dec)? I will have tax filings for 2012-2014. (2012 tax filing will cover 3 months only though). The way its worded does not clearly state its needs taxes paid full 12 months in each fiscal year (maybe the Thai version is more clear on this point).

In any case Arkady is right it would have to be clarified with Immigration if:

1.) January 16 submission counts as submission year 2015. This would make sense as in previous years application submission was always at end of the year.

2). If 12 month tax payment is required in each of the 3 previous fiscal years.

[beeper]

Another request for advice comes to mind:

It seems opinion is divided about the usefulness to hire someone with experience in the application process and the documents to be provided. Some people found it useful some think its a waste of money and managed the process themselves successfully.

As I plan to apply under working/business category I believe the part of showing your contribution to Thailand will be important aspect of the application. The so called portfolio to show this will require some careful thought more so since I do not have any publications, newspaper articles, club memberships to show today.

I think someone with experience of having managed multiple application successfully can add some value here.

Has anybody in recent years made a good experience with someone helping them in the process with particular focus on the contribution portfolio building and can recommend an individual?

As I will be paying for this myself I cannot afford law firms charging astronomical fees.

Thanks

[THAIJAMES]

Another request for advice comes to mind:

It seems opinion is divided about the usefulness to hire someone with experience in the application process and the documents to be provided. Some people found it useful some think its a waste of money and managed the process themselves successfully.

As I plan to apply under working/business category I believe the part of showing your contribution to Thailand will be important aspect of the application. The so called portfolio to show this will require some careful thought more so since I do not have any publications, newspaper articles, club memberships to show today.

I think someone with experience of having managed multiple application successfully can add some value here.

Has anybody in recent years made a good experience with someone helping them in the process with particular focus on the contribution portfolio building and can recommend an individual?

As I will be paying for this myself I cannot afford law firms charging astronomical fees.

Thanks

I think how much you make and where you work will have a much bigger impact then your contributions to Thailand.

Having said that, think of the portfolio as a sales publication selling yourself as a good person that Thailand would want to have as a permanent resident.

I don't think these "contribution" need to be anything extraordinary. They just need to show that you are a good person.

Simple things like pictures of you attending merit making ceremonies, making some contribution to a charity and interacting with Thai society and people in general should be good enough.

Create a bounded 10-25 page booklet that describes you, your family, your achievements, your education (detailed), your contributions from work and other activities. All with pictures to show and give a good image of you and your achievements.

Working for your company is a contribution to Thailand. Thais are very image conscious when it comes to job position and education. So I think that will have a much bigger impact then what most foreigners think of contributions to a country.

Make it formal, meaning that it looks professionally designed, with sections clearly marked, divided etc. Like a biography.

Just make sure it is a bit on the humble side and not trying to show off or make yourself bigger than you are.

You don't want to stick out or bring attention to yourself, going the extra mile or trying to be better than other applicants does not work in Thailand.

Its better to just have something that is passable and does not raise any questions.

Its just a process so as long at you tick all the boxes and no questions are raised from the information you provide. Then you just sail along.

Why do I believe all this?

Because I applied for PR under a special category for persons having made special contributions to Thailand. I won't go into the details of my contributions.

But instead of helping my case, which I thought it would, it had the opposite effect in which it made everything much longer and harder. (still had to quality for the business category)

Thais don't value the same things that we consider helping society in the west and faced with any unusual circumstances or information, things quickly get stuck in a dead end.

This is because of the bureaucratic process in which anything unusual is hard to resolve without going through all kinds of channels.

[camerata]

My portfolio was mainly letters of reference from fairly senior civil servants plus one from a friend with a famous surname. The one letter on official Thai government letterhead was pulled out by the Immigration official and placed on the top of the pile of documents.

[Arkady]

I agree that the contribution to Thailand doesn't need to be a big deal. It just need to be concisely written and make sense with some supporting evidence, if possible. If you have nothing much else, you could submit receipts for donations to registered charities over the time you've been in Thailand. Anything work related is good. Training Thai staff with needed skills, doing something that makes Thailand more competitive, encouraging foreign investment. I did the latter. They understand that applicants are ordinary individuals and can't change the world by themselves.

Re refs, Camerata is correct. They are interested in references from senior government officials, preferably on government note paper. I was told by an immigration pol maj gen at the time I applied that references from business people are virtually ignored, although one from your CEO or chairman would be good, if you work for a large Thai company. I had one from the second head of the Comptroller's Office on official notepaper but the one that made a difference for me one on his private note paper from an official who one of the alternate members on the Immigration Commission that approves PR. If you have good contacts, do your research and try to find out who sits on the commmission. There are several people from each of the agencies who take it in turn to attend the meetings. They are unlikely to reject some one recommended by one of their peers.

[Arkady]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the issues I raised so far. based on the text of original requirements Payanak 2121 copies above:

"Copy of the applicant?s annual personal income tax form (por ngor dor 91 or 90) with receipts for the previous 3 years prior to the

application submission year and a copy of the filed personal income tax returns e.g. P.N.D.50 which must be officially certified by

the revenue officers"

If application period is opened in January 2016 ( as this year) is this still considered as 2015 application submission year (as usually submissions were in Dec)? I will have tax filings for 2012-2014. (2012 tax filing will cover 3 months only though). The way its worded does not clearly state its needs taxes paid full 12 months in each fiscal year (maybe the Thai version is more clear on this point).

In any case Arkady is right it would have to be clarified with Immigration if:

1.) January 16 submission counts as submission year 2015. This would make sense as in previous years application submission was always at end of the year.

2). If 12 month tax payment is required in each of the 3 previous fiscal years.

If they open for applications in January again, that would certainly give you a good chance to use the prior year's tax receipt. However, I assume that the Jan 2015 application was a one-off, since the cabinet had not been able to issue the required cabinet resolution in time for Dec, having only taken office in Sept. I would guess it will take place again in Dec 2015.

[onthemoon]

I agree that the contribution to Thailand doesn't need to be a big deal. It just need to be concisely written and make sense with some supporting evidence, if possible. If you have nothing much else, you could submit receipts for donations to registered charities over the time you've been in Thailand. Anything work related is good. Training Thai staff with needed skills, doing something that makes Thailand more competitive, encouraging foreign investment. I did the latter. They understand that applicants are ordinary individuals and can't change the world by themselves.

Re refs, Camerata is correct. They are interested in references from senior government officials, preferably on government note paper. I was told by an immigration pol maj gen at the time I applied that references from business people are virtually ignored, although one from your CEO or chairman would be good, if you work for a large Thai company. I had one from the second head of the Comptroller's Office on official notepaper but the one that made a difference for me one on his private note paper from an official who one of the alternate members on the Immigration Commission that approves PR. If you have good contacts, do your research and try to find out who sits on the commmission. There are several people from each of the agencies who take it in turn to attend the meetings. They are unlikely to reject some one recommended by one of their peers.

I did not have references from any government officials (senior or otherwise) in my portfolio. I also never tried to find out who sits on the commission.

Be honest and convincing, and hand in all documents required, is my simple advice.

[Kan Win]

Hi Folks,

As a PR holder since 2002 do I still require a Work Permit to work in Thailand?

Win

[ubonjoe]

Yes you need a work permit.

[THAIJAMES]

Yes you need a work permit.

At one time PR did not have to meet the requirement for 4 Thai employees. Is there any advantage when applying for a work permit under PR?

[brianinbangkok]

Hi Folks,

As a PR holder since 2002 do I still require a Work Permit to work in Thailand?

Win

Yes you still need a WP

[onthemoon]

I believe I heard on the 7pm news on 107fm tonight that the Minister of the Interior signed 565 Permanent Residence applications yesterday. Did I hear this right? I googled for this info but couldn't find it.

The 7pm news is the official government news by the Public Relations Department, so they wouldn't spread rumours. But I was driving and it caught my ear by surprise. Did anybody hear the same, or has info from another source?

I don't want to create a rumour or raise false hopes, please don't believe me until somebody says I heard this right.

Edited May 25, 2015 by onthemoon

[xxxarte]

Yes more news tomorrow morning we are checking.

[Mario2008]

I believe I heard on the 7pm news on 107fm tonight that the Minister of the Interior signed 565 Permanent Residence applications yesterday. Did I hear this right? I googled for this info but couldn't find it.

The 7pm news is the official government news by the Public Relations Department, so they wouldn't spread rumours. But I was driving and it caught my ear by surprise. Did anybody hear the same, or has info from another source?

I don't want to create a rumour or raise false hopes, please don't believe me until somebody says I heard this right.

See this topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/827854-thai-interior-minister-signs-residency-permit-for-foreigners/

[onthemoon]

I believe I heard on the 7pm news on 107fm tonight that the Minister of the Interior signed 565 Permanent Residence applications yesterday. Did I hear this right? I googled for this info but couldn't find it.

The 7pm news is the official government news by the Public Relations Department, so they wouldn't spread rumours. But I was driving and it caught my ear by surprise. Did anybody hear the same, or has info from another source?

I don't want to create a rumour or raise false hopes, please don't believe me until somebody says I heard this right.

See this topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/827854-thai-interior-minister-signs-residency-permit-for-foreigners/

Thanks for that link. I believe the wording in the OP is exactly what was read on the news.

[sas_cars]

I think now it's just a matter of time that newly approved applicants start receiving approval letters. Waiting for first reports of people receiving letters. Fingers crossed

[ubonjoe]

A off topic abusive post has been removed.

[Bubbha]

Could someone please share the phone number for the PR desk - THAIJAMES...?

[THAIJAMES]

Could someone please share the phone number for the PR desk - THAIJAMES...?

The number that I have been using is 02 141 9899

Tried a couple of days ago to get through but no luck.

I am going overseas next month, I am trying to avoid them send me a letter right before I leave...

[eldepinamar]

I am from 2013 batch

I spoke today with the officer who handled my application and she told me that 2013-2014(Jan-2015) haven't been proceed yet. I am not sure either, if all the applications of 2012 were reviewed during this week approval proccess.

She expected the next session to happen by end of July -- beginning of August (that's what she told me)

Are there anybody who applied in 2013 here?

[Aye Aye]

Hey guys, sorry if this was answered before the last 5 pages:

Am married now, but negotiating divorce.

Thinking to get the residency while I still have my non-O marriage visa. What happens when we divorce, do I lose the residency? Will I even get it if we divorce before the request has been approved and signed?

[ubonjoe]

Hey guys, sorry if this was answered before the last 5 pages:

Am married now, but negotiating divorce.

Thinking to get the residency while I still have my non-O marriage visa. What happens when we divorce, do I lose the residency? Will I even get it if we divorce before the request has been approved and signed?

It would depend upon the category you apply under.

If you apply based upon marriage to use the lower income requirement that would effect your application during the approval period. After you are granted PR it would not matter.

If applying as working then it would not matter,

[onthemoon]

Could someone please share the phone number for the PR desk - THAIJAMES...?

The number that I have been using is 02 141 9899

Tried a couple of days ago to get through but no luck.

I am going overseas next month, I am trying to avoid them send me a letter right before I leave...

The letter does not matter, it's what is in the computer that does. If you are going for more than one month, good luck trying to change what is in the computer...

We had a member in this thread a few years ago, because he was in Taiwan and could not get a day off (all call in sick for a day) during that window of one month that you have to pick up the PR. I believe he lost it, as he obviously was not residing in Thailand permanently enough to even pick up his Permanent Residency Permit.

[THAIJAMES]

Could someone please share the phone number for the PR desk - THAIJAMES...?

The number that I have been using is 02 141 9899

Tried a couple of days ago to get through but no luck.

I am going overseas next month, I am trying to avoid them send me a letter right before I leave...

The letter does not matter, it's what is in the computer that does. If you are going for more than one month, good luck trying to change what is in the computer...

We had a member in this thread a few years ago, because he was in Taiwan and could not get a day off (all call in sick for a day) during that window of one month that you have to pick up the PR. I believe he lost it, as he obviously was not residing in Thailand permanently enough to even pick up his Permanent Residency Permit.

Thanks for the Info, I am gone for 25 days, just worried that If I got notice 1 or 2 days before I left, since I am based in Chiang Mai, that I may not be able to complete everything before I leave and by the time I would have gotten back everything would have expired. I guess best to call ahead even before receiving the letter.

[Bubbha]

After approval letters are issued, could someone please advise on the task of obtaining the PR Blue Book and multiple re-entry non-quota immigrant visa?

Is this a process that I could do on my own (e.g. similar to a routine pending PR approval 6 month extension of stay)? Or would it be useful to have a Thai colleague come along to assist? Are there specific forms to fill out for the PR Blue Book and re-entry visa? I cannot find anything online on the Immigration website.

Also, same questions for the Red Book at the district police office. is this relatively straightforward - or should I plan on arranging for a Thai colleague to assist me?

Thanks very much for your advice.

[stbkk]

They give you the blue book as part of the approval process at immigration.

I took my wife along with me to help and it's just as well, as they had made some mistakes when filling it in (all in Thai, so unless you read Thai a good idea to have a native speaker with you).

The re-entry permits are no more difficult than the normal re-entries, so you could do that yourself. There are 2 forms to fill in, from memory (check this thread), as opposed to the one for 'regular' visa holders.

The Red book also is better approached with a native speaker, as again its all in Thai, and again they made a mistake filling mine in, which my wife spotted.

Also getting your name on the Tabian baan is best approached with a Thai, unless you are much more confident in your language skills than me. Its the sort of thing that you don't want messed up, in my opinion.

Good luck,

Steve

[Arkady]

It's not difficult to get your blue and red books and tabien baan by yourself, if you can speak reasonable Thai but, as stbkk points out, you do need to able to read Thai to check the details and the spelling of your name have been entered correctly. One thing you need to be aware of is that the tabian baan needs your parents' given names and nationality. When I got my first one the DO wouldn't fill in their nationalities without documentary evidence. So they just filled in 'nationality unspecified'. I had no problem with this until I applied for citizenship when this was deemed unacceptable. That started me on a paper chase to get evidence of my parents' nationality in the form of a declaration at my embassy that had to be translated into Thai and notarised at the Foreign Ministry. Other district offices may be less of a pain in the arse over this and just take your word for it.

[onthemoon]

For the Tabien Baan, I needed two witnesses who confirmed that I live there. They were actually asked how long they know me... Anyway, you'll need to have Thai people with you for that act anyway.

Add-on: You get the blue PR book when you pick up your PR (well, it is the book), you get the reddish Alien Residency Book at the local police station, and you get the tabien baan at the District Office.

Edited June 3, 2015 by onthemoon

[THAIJAMES]

It's not difficult to get your blue and red books and tabien baan by yourself, if you can speak reasonable Thai but, as stbkk points out, you do need to able to read Thai to check the details and the spelling of your name have been entered correctly. One thing you need to be aware of is that the tabian baan needs your parents' given names and nationality. When I got my first one the DO wouldn't fill in their nationalities without documentary evidence. So they just filled in 'nationality unspecified'. I had no problem with this until I applied for citizenship when this was deemed unacceptable. That started me on a paper chase to get evidence of my parents' nationality in the form of a declaration at my embassy that had to be translated into Thai and notarised at the Foreign Ministry. Other district offices may be less of a pain in the arse over this and just take your word for it.

For people that already have the yellow book, is it just a formality to have the tabien baan changed to a blue book?