The ugly side of Thailand's elephant tourism

[HerbalEd]

While there has been largely low key protests/awareness of this problem in Thailand for some time, it looks like there might be a swelling of popular opinion against abuse of Elephants on the horizon. I for one certainly hope so.

Fortunately they did ban elephants from being paraded through BKK to be fed by the tourists. And, so far, the ban has held. There is a lot being done to deal with the mistreatment of elephants, but it's too little too late. 

[HerbalEd]

How about printing more of "the Ugly Side of Thailand"?

And shatter this LOS facade.

No need. There are many here on tv.com who are very willing and happy to do it.

[HerbalEd]

Well since you all generalizing, how about all tourist are predators, all blacks are thugs, all Thais are rip offs, lets see oh yea all westerners are war mongers. Name the the elephant camps that are abusing the elephants for starters, I for one would like to see the hard evidence of direct smuggling of elephants for the tourist from Burma?.....and I don't mean the choreograph set up filming that has been done in the past or the set up choreograph of Pajan that was done in the past. I will remind the folks on this forum that I have been living in Thailand and have been working with domesticated elephants in a elephant camp for the last 19 years. The elephants at this elephant camp are all registered and micro chipped, non of which came to Thailand from Burma. This camp has an excellent breeding program, a resident lic. vet. and provides a safe and healthy environment for the elephants. If folks would bother to actually look at this situation that the domesticated elephants are facing they would find that "domesticated elephants cannot be returned to the wild for a number of reasons. Loss of habitat is one challenge but that is not even the issue when it comes to domesticated elephants. The simple fact is domesticated elephants cannot be released to the wild do to being domesticated and they do have a strong loving bond with their mahout's and this human/elephant interaction has been going on for a long long time here in Thailand. Yes in a perfect world...................so in my expert opinion properly run elephant camps is a far better environment than the city streets or logging whether it is legal or illegal or the BS scamming NGO's that are nothing but glorified elephant camps presenting themselves as something other than what they truly are. So while there needs to be discussion on how better to take care of domesticated elephants in Thailand no one on this forum ever offers a good sound idea or common sense when commenting on this subject. I am open to see or hear real evidence that all elephant camps are abusing the elephants. I know for sure the elephant camp that I am connected to, is doing the very best to provide a safe and healthy environment for the elephants there. 

So are you saying the problem of abused/mistreated elephants in Thailand is a small one and that most elephants in Thailand live under the ideal conditions you describe? And are you saying a lot of elephants aren't being illegally trafficked from Burma? Or are you generalizing also, albeit in the other direction?

Edited July 29, 2014 by HerbalEd

[HerbalEd]

 

You do realize that many of these elephant camps are producing a turnover in excess of 2 million baht a month already?   

 

It's profit that's driving the camps.  

 

I doubt you actually know how much money "many of these elephants camps are producing." You probably "heard" something and are then exaggerating. Even so, if the elephants have sanctuary and are being treated well, then GREAT. I'm all for it.

Edited July 29, 2014 by HerbalEd

[MILT]

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Well since you all generalizing, how about all tourist are predators, all blacks are thugs, all Thais are rip offs, lets see oh yea all westerners are war mongers. Name the the elephant camps that are abusing the elephants for starters, I for one would like to see the hard evidence of direct smuggling of elephants for the tourist from Burma?.....and I don't mean the choreograph set up filming that has been done in the past or the set up choreograph of Pajan that was done in the past. I will remind the folks on this forum that I have been living in Thailand and have been working with domesticated elephants in a elephant camp for the last 19 years. The elephants at this elephant camp are all registered and micro chipped, non of which came to Thailand from Burma. This camp has an excellent breeding program, a resident lic. vet. and provides a safe and healthy environment for the elephants. If folks would bother to actually look at this situation that the domesticated elephants are facing they would find that "domesticated elephants cannot be returned to the wild for a number of reasons. Loss of habitat is one challenge but that is not even the issue when it comes to domesticated elephants. The simple fact is domesticated elephants cannot be released to the wild do to being domesticated and they do have a strong loving bond with their mahout's and this human/elephant interaction has been going on for a long long time here in Thailand. Yes in a perfect world...................so in my expert opinion properly run elephant camps is a far better environment than the city streets or logging whether it is legal or illegal or the BS scamming NGO's that are nothing but glorified elephant camps presenting themselves as something other than what they truly are. So while there needs to be discussion on how better to take care of domesticated elephants in Thailand no one on this forum ever offers a good sound idea or common sense when commenting on this subject. I am open to see or hear real evidence that all elephant camps are abusing the elephants. I know for sure the elephant camp that I am connected to, is doing the very best to provide a safe and healthy environment for the elephants there. 

So are you saying the problem of abused/mistreated elephants in Thailand is a small one and that most elephants in Thailand live under the ideal conditions you describe? And are you saying a lot of elephants aren't being illegally trafficked from Burma? Or are you generalizing also, albeit in the other direction?

 

 

Generalizing? Yes I am saying that! I am saying that most domesticated elephants that work in the tourism sector or bred in Thailand and not being smuggled from Burma. Yes I am saying that the abuse and mistreatment of domesticated elephants is blown up to serve BS NGO's agendas of generating millions of baht and that is no generalization and that for sure is what fuels their cause. Most camps (maybe save a few which I am waiting to see the factual evidence that are mistreating the elephants to surface) care and treat the elephants very well. Again in a perfect world right? but the facts suggest that this isn't a perfect world and that properly run elephant camps is a safe and healthy environment for domesticated elephants. As I have always suggest more can be done to ensure that the elephant camps are held responsible for any abuse and mistreatment of elephants.

Edited July 29, 2014 by MILT

[ataloss]

 

 

I read the headline and was curious how many elephants come to Thailand as tourists.  Hope they are not counted in the annual tourist numbers.  

Boeing catered for that kind of tourism with the Jumbo jet.

 

  ... I got it!

 

Sorry, you got just  a tiny part of it. Try this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkOuDgStQp0

Amazing !!

 

[Pattszero]

 

 

You do realize that many of these elephant camps are producing a turnover in excess of 2 million baht a month already?   

 

It's profit that's driving the camps.  

 

I doubt you actually know how much money "many of these elephants camps are producing." You probably "heard" something and are then exaggerating. Even so, if the elephants have sanctuary and are being treated well, then GREAT. I'm all for it.

 

 

I know. 

 

I even get the visitor numbers from two parks.  

 

I doubt you do.  

 

............................................

[plachon]

Ayuttaya using elephant for tourist ride it's really cruel as hook use to control on ear and over working during weekend where you can see many tourist, need to boycott such moved to return poor elephant to Myanmar forest where they belong, still lack of laws to protect such great animal .

I m afraid there is not a lot of forest left in Burma for the poor elephants to return to. Nor in Cambodia, Laos or SW China. The sad reality is, that the forests (or what's left of them) are in such a poor state that for most elephants in captivity, there is little chance they will ever be able to return to a natural habitat, even if they could survive without their handlers. It's a cruel Catch 22 situation for an elephant in Thailand, and their best hope is for a kind mahout, working in an elephant camp that gives them good conditions, vetinerary care and the chance for some respite in surrounding jungle and rivers/lakes, when they are not working.

[Johpa]

"The ugly side of Thailand's elephant tourism"

 

Is there another side?

 

Well yes there is indeed.  There are a number of elephant camps up and around the north (Lanna region) that take care of their elephants, having an "in-house" breeding program, and keep veterinarians on staff.  The owners do care about the animals and do not over-work them. The problems are with the smaller, underfunded  elephant camps and with the camps that are well outside the normal range of elephants such as Phuket or Pattaya where there is no reason, no excuse to have an elephant camp as there are no unemployed out of work pachyderms to be absorbed into the camps, so the owners resort to buying out of Burma,

[redtony]

"The ugly side of Thailand's elephant tourism"

 

Is there another side?

 

you could try elephant nature park in chaing mai run by a women named Lek who has recieved awards and recognition for her work helping elephants in thailand.  She has also convinced at least one other elephant camp in the area to adopt the conservation model/eco tourist model rather than exploitation.  Have visited it and was a great day where elephants get to be elephants and nothing more, she also helps many other animals and works to save forest as well.   Another good example is BLES in sukhotai.

[whaleboneman]

I agree that Elephant Nature Park is a great example of how elephants can be kept for tourists to see and interact with. They do not have elephant rides but rather allow tourists to feed and bathe the animals and to learn about them. Lek is doing a magnificent job - check it out.

[MILT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

"The ugly side of Thailand's elephant tourism"

 

Is there another side?

 

you could try elephant nature park in chaing mai run by a women named Lek who has recieved awards and recognition for her work helping elephants in thailand.  She has also convinced at least one other elephant camp in the area to adopt the conservation model/eco tourist model rather than exploitation.  Have visited it and was a great day where elephants get to be elephants and nothing more, she also helps many other animals and works to save forest as well.   Another good example is BLES in sukhotai.

 

 

 

I agree that Elephant Nature Park is a great example of how elephants can be kept for tourists to see and interact with. They do not have elephant rides but rather allow tourists to feed and bathe the animals and to learn about them. Lek is doing a magnificent job - check it out.

 

I was waiting for someone to plug Lek "Elephant (scam) Nature Park" Hahahahaha What a joke! ENP is not about elephants it's about the supreme con-artist Lek.

[Johpa]

I was waiting for someone to plug Lek "Elephant (scam) Nature Park" Hahahahaha What a joke! ENP is not about elephants it's about the supreme con-artist Lek.

 

Lek may be a master of self-promotion but calling her a con artist is taking it a bit too far. She runs a good smaller camp.

[redtony]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

"The ugly side of Thailand's elephant tourism"

 

Is there another side?

 

you could try elephant nature park in chaing mai run by a women named Lek who has recieved awards and recognition for her work helping elephants in thailand.  She has also convinced at least one other elephant camp in the area to adopt the conservation model/eco tourist model rather than exploitation.  Have visited it and was a great day where elephants get to be elephants and nothing more, she also helps many other animals and works to save forest as well.   Another good example is BLES in sukhotai.

 

 

 

I agree that Elephant Nature Park is a great example of how elephants can be kept for tourists to see and interact with. They do not have elephant rides but rather allow tourists to feed and bathe the animals and to learn about them. Lek is doing a magnificent job - check it out.

 

I was waiting for someone to plug Lek "Elephant (scam) Nature Park" Hahahahaha What a joke! ENP is not about elephants it's about the supreme con-artist Lek.

 

so please explain, how ENP is a scam and lek a con artist? you obviously know more about this than me so please.......more information
 

[LiorW]

I saw one paraded in Cheng Wattana, Nonthaburi two days ago