MH17 jet 'downed by missile shrapnel,' says Ukraine

[webfact]

MH17 jet 'downed by missile shrapnel,' says Ukraine

UKRAINE: -- Security officials in Ukraine say the downed Malaysia Airlines jet in eastern Ukraine suffered an explosive loss of pressure after it was punctured by shrapnel from a missile.

They say the information came from the plane's flight data recorders, which are being analysed by British experts.

However, it remains unclear who fired a missile, with pro-Russia rebels and Ukraine blaming each other.

Many of the 298 people killed on board flight MH17 were from the Netherlands.

Dutch investigators leading the inquiry into the crash have refused to comment on the Ukrainian claims.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28532525

[bbc]2014-07-29[/bbc]

[Mosha]

Isn't that how the BUK missiles work by design? ie explode in close proximity to the target.

[Tywais]

Isn't that how the BUK missiles work by design? ie explode in close proximity to the target.

 

Yes.  Explosion is within 20 meters of the target and a 70kG warhead (SA11).  Some reports that it exploded just below the cockpit of the aircraft.

[thailien8]

So I guess this means that some of the unfortunate passengers on that doomed plane did not immediately die when the missile hit; instead they had to experience falling to their death, while still alive, from 6 miles up.  That makes the jumpers from the upper floors of World Trade Center seem fortunate, by comparison;  they only had to experience falling to their death for ten seconds or so.

[arjunadawn]

So I guess this means that some of the unfortunate passengers on that doomed plane did not immediately die when the missile hit; instead they had to experience falling to their death, while still alive, from 6 miles up.  That makes the jumpers from the upper floors of World Trade Center seem fortunate, by comparison;  they only had to experience falling to their death for ten seconds or so.

Good point. How terribly sad. I've freefalled before from as high as 23,000 with O2. I can tell you there's enough time to be horribly aware your falling- and impacting. Terrible...horrible way to go simply to further a Great Game agenda.

[Tywais]

So I guess this means that some of the unfortunate passengers on that doomed plane did not immediately die when the missile hit; instead they had to experience falling to their death, while still alive, from 6 miles up.  That makes the jumpers from the upper floors of World Trade Center seem fortunate, by comparison;  they only had to experience falling to their death for ten seconds or so.

 

Under explosive decompression your lungs would be immediately purged of any air.  At 33,000 feet, based on flight medical data, the time of useful consciousness is 15-20 seconds if at rest and less if exerting oneself.  Which is fortunate in a way as they would have been anywhere from 2-5 minutes before reaching the ground.

 

The blast force from the missile that slammed into a Malaysian plane over Ukraine, combined with the plane’s dramatic deceleration, probably instantly rendered everyone on board unconscious or dead.

That’s the best guess of James Vosswinkel, a trauma surgeon who led a definitive study of TWA Flight 800 that exploded and crashed off New York’s Long Island in 1996, killing all 230 on the flight. The Malaysian plane carried 298.

 

Vosswinkel’s research found that trauma in a mid-air explosion occurs from three sources, the force of the blast, the massive deceleration when a plane going 500 miles an hour stops in mid-air, and the impact of the fall. Additionally, the loss of cabin pressure can cause hypoxia within seconds at 33,000 feet, leading to loss of consciousness.

 

“You have such horrific forces that it’s essentially unsurvivable,” said Vosswinkel, chief of trauma and surgical critical care at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, in a telephone interview. “No one was conscious or experienced that fall.”

 

 

Source - Nationalpost

[arjunadawn]

So I guess this means that some of the unfortunate passengers on that doomed plane did not immediately die when the missile hit; instead they had to experience falling to their death, while still alive, from 6 miles up.  That makes the jumpers from the upper floors of World Trade Center seem fortunate, by comparison;  they only had to experience falling to their death for ten seconds or so.

 
Under explosive decompression your lungs would be immediately purged of any air.  At 33,000 feet, based on flight medical data, the time of useful consciousness is 15-20 seconds if at rest and less if exerting oneself.  Which is fortunate in a way as they would have been anywhere from 2-5 minutes before reaching the ground.
 

The blast force from the missile that slammed into a Malaysian plane over Ukraine, combined with the planes dramatic deceleration, probably instantly rendered everyone on board unconscious or dead.
Thats the best guess of James Vosswinkel, a trauma surgeon who led a definitive study of TWA Flight 800 that exploded and crashed off New Yorks Long Island in 1996, killing all 230 on the flight. The Malaysian plane carried 298.
 
Vosswinkels research found that trauma in a mid-air explosion occurs from three sources, the force of the blast, the massive deceleration when a plane going 500 miles an hour stops in mid-air, and the impact of the fall. Additionally, the loss of cabin pressure can cause hypoxia within seconds at 33,000 feet, leading to loss of consciousness.
 
You have such horrific forces that its essentially unsurvivable, said Vosswinkel, chief of trauma and surgical critical care at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, in a telephone interview. No one was conscious or experienced that fall.
 

 
Source - Nationalpost

Good point. So you think that it was unlikely some were conscious on final approach?

[Tywais]

 

 

So I guess this means that some of the unfortunate passengers on that doomed plane did not immediately die when the missile hit; instead they had to experience falling to their death, while still alive, from 6 miles up.  That makes the jumpers from the upper floors of World Trade Center seem fortunate, by comparison;  they only had to experience falling to their death for ten seconds or so.

 
Under explosive decompression your lungs would be immediately purged of any air.  At 33,000 feet, based on flight medical data, the time of useful consciousness is 15-20 seconds if at rest and less if exerting oneself.  Which is fortunate in a way as they would have been anywhere from 2-5 minutes before reaching the ground.
 

The blast force from the missile that slammed into a Malaysian plane over Ukraine, combined with the planes dramatic deceleration, probably instantly rendered everyone on board unconscious or dead.
Thats the best guess of James Vosswinkel, a trauma surgeon who led a definitive study of TWA Flight 800 that exploded and crashed off New Yorks Long Island in 1996, killing all 230 on the flight. The Malaysian plane carried 298.
 
Vosswinkels research found that trauma in a mid-air explosion occurs from three sources, the force of the blast, the massive deceleration when a plane going 500 miles an hour stops in mid-air, and the impact of the fall. Additionally, the loss of cabin pressure can cause hypoxia within seconds at 33,000 feet, leading to loss of consciousness.
 
You have such horrific forces that its essentially unsurvivable, said Vosswinkel, chief of trauma and surgical critical care at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, in a telephone interview. No one was conscious or experienced that fall.
 

 
Source - Nationalpost

Good point. So you think that it was unlikely some were conscious on final approach?

 

 

Highly unlikely.
 

[wilgoster]

One question: Why didn't it catch fire or more likely, explode? Alternately, some say it was shot down, per this link:

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

[F430murci]

One question: Why didn't it catch fire or more likely, explode? Alternately, some say it was shot down, per this link:
 
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

It is unfortunate that the Net is so full of whack jobs spreading their mental illnesses as some seem to read such stuff and take it seriously. In short, you have been taken.

One has to wonder about the long term impact of having such a medium as the Ney that easily feeds and reinforces borderline personality disorders or the types that live with their nose in the smart phones reading nutty stuff and saying to themselves, "See I told you."

[Asiantravel]

 

One question: Why didn't it catch fire or more likely, explode? Alternately, some say it was shot down, per this link:
 
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

It is unfortunate that the Net is so full of whack jobs spreading their mental illnesses as some seem to read such stuff and take it seriously. In short, you have been taken.

One has to wonder about the long term impact of having such a medium as the Ney that easily feeds and reinforces borderline personality disorders or the types that live with their nose in the smart phones reading nutty stuff and saying to themselves, "See I told you."

 

 

 

I have lost track now of how many threads in which you have made this type of comment. It seems to be your obsession. Are you suggesting censorship of the net? Currently you have the freedom not to read the article or even click on the link if it doesn't suit YOUR VIEW of things

 

 

" If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.  " ~Noam Chomsky

Edited July 30, 2014 by Asiantravel

[F430murci]

 

One question: Why didn't it catch fire or more likely, explode? Alternately, some say it was shot down, per this link:
 
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

It is unfortunate that the Net is so full of whack jobs spreading their mental illnesses as some seem to read such stuff and take it seriously. In short, you have been taken.

One has to wonder about the long term impact of having such a medium as the Ney that easily feeds and reinforces borderline personality disorders or the types that live with their nose in the smart phones reading nutty stuff and saying to themselves, "See I told you."
 

 
 
I have lost track now of how many threads in which you have made this type of comment. It seems to be your obsession. Are you suggesting censorship of the net? Currently you have the freedom not to read the article or even click on the link if it doesn't suit YOUR VIEW of things

I am not the type that reads and believes that alien shape shifting lizards are in the White House. I may find it entertaining whereas some may view it as reinforcing a delusional belief.

Never before have we had a medium where anyone can write anything which I suppose is cool, but the alarming part is how many people are lulled into a belief that some of this stuff is true. More alarming are those suffering from psychosis that read stuff that just reinforces their psychosis and makes them sicker. I do see it as a problem. Edited July 30, 2014 by F430murci

[Asiantravel]

 

 

 

One question: Why didn't it catch fire or more likely, explode? Alternately, some say it was shot down, per this link:
 
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

It is unfortunate that the Net is so full of whack jobs spreading their mental illnesses as some seem to read such stuff and take it seriously. In short, you have been taken.

One has to wonder about the long term impact of having such a medium as the Ney that easily feeds and reinforces borderline personality disorders or the types that live with their nose in the smart phones reading nutty stuff and saying to themselves, "See I told you."
 

 
 
I have lost track now of how many threads in which you have made this type of comment. It seems to be your obsession. Are you suggesting censorship of the net? Currently you have the freedom not to read the article or even click on the link if it doesn't suit YOUR VIEW of things

I am not the type that reads and believes that alien shape shifting lizards are in the White House. I may find it entertaining whereas some may view it as reinforcing a delusional belief.

Never before have we had a medium where anyone can write anything which I suppose is cool, but the alarming part is how many people are lulled into a belief that some of this stuff is true. More alarming are those suffering from psychosis that read stuff that just reinforces their psychosis and makes them sicker. I do see it as a problem.

 

 

 

 

There is a bit of a difference between ” alien shape shifting lizards” and denigrating the reputation of people like Paul Craig Roberts, who held a senior position in the Reagan administration as well as Lt General McInerney, which you did before?

 

Now your latest remarks try to trivialise a letter which has been signed by some noteable senior public officials , including Division Counsel & Special Agent, FBI and Col., US Army (ret).

 

 I doubt if such people would add their signatures to a document if they didn't feel passionate about its contents?

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Asiantravel

[3NUMBAS]

DONETSK, Ukraine (AP) — International observers turned back Wednesday after making another attempt to reach the site where Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 went down in eastern Ukraine, and a government official said the area near the zone had been mined by pro-Russian separatists who control it.

 

Observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe set out in two vehicles — without frustrated crash investigators from the Netherlands who have been trying to reach the site for four days.

 

The OSCE observers headed back to the city of Donetsk after discussions with rebels on the city's outskirts not long after starting what would have been a two-hour journey to the site.

That means that almost two weeks after the July 17 disaster, safety concerns and hindrance from the separatists who control the area are still obstructing access to the site. Foreign governments whose citizens died have complained the site is still not secured and some human remains have not been recovered. International observers say wreckage has been cut, moved or otherwise tampered with.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-official-rebels-lay-mines-near-crash-105357211.html#CQAH5bH

[3NUMBAS]

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/30/malaysia-airlines-plane-forced-to-abort-take-off-4816030/

 

Malaysia Airlines plane forced to abort take-off

Wednesday 30 Jul 2014 9:21 pm

[Jdiddy]

 

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/30/malaysia-airlines-plane-forced-to-abort-take-off-4816030/

 

Malaysia Airlines plane forced to abort take-off

Wednesday 30 Jul 2014 9:21 pm

 

 

 

Sounds like a ATC error