NCPO approves US$34 billion rail line project plan

[rametindallas]

Here we go. The billions will fly out. The original plan came from the missunderstood fugitive. Now the military government can show what it's worth in the economical field. Check and doublecheck all spendings. The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures. Eight dualtrack lines sounds ok to me.But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Edit: The two highspeed lines to the north (Chiang Khong and Nong Khai) are part of the 2.4 trillion plan, though not mentioned in the article

Here we go. The billions will fly out.

Billions flying out is bad but PTP making Trillions fly out is good.

Post propaganda, much?

The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures.

Of course the PTP's 2.2 trillion baht scheme, with no Parliamentary oversight, would not have any corruption-vultures

Hypocritical, much?

But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Straw man argument, much?

I read the OP twice and couldn't find the reference to two high speed lines. Maybe you could point them out for me.

You sure weren't worried that the six high speed lines the PTP wanted to fund (and never complete) would ever show a profit.

Hypocritical, much?

Stop being such a troll and maybe regain your self-respect.

[smutcakes]

Here we go. The billions will fly out. The original plan came from the missunderstood fugitive. Now the military government can show what it's worth in the economical field. Check and doublecheck all spendings. The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures. Eight dualtrack lines sounds ok to me.But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Edit: The two highspeed lines to the north (Chiang Khong and Nong Khai) are part of the 2.4 trillion plan, though not mentioned in the article

Here we go. The billions will fly out.

Billions flying out is bad but PTP making Trillions fly out is good.

Post propaganda, much?

The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures.

Of course the PTP's 2.2 trillion baht scheme, with no Parliamentary oversight, would not have any corruption-vultures

Hypocritical, much?

But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Straw man argument, much?

I read the OP twice and couldn't find the reference to two high speed lines. Maybe you could point them out for me.

You sure weren't worried that the six high speed lines the PTP wanted to fund (and never complete) would ever show a profit.

Hypocritical, much?

Stop being such a troll and maybe regain your self-respect.

A) who is providing the oversight now?

How is it being financed?

C) The total plan already approved is apparently 2.4 trillion (according to Bloomberg), and thats with the cutting of the HSR, and the supposedly 40% PTP charge? So what else is making up this amount and why has the cost not come down?

[Cake Monster]

It will be interesting to know whos land this proposed rail line will cross over, and what price is paid for that land purchase.

Will there still be graft in Thailand ?

[2fishin2]

Where does the populous live? Thats where the trains need to go. Guess Chiang Mai doesnt have enough people to warrant a better service. But some country towns with populations of 20000 people would be better served. Yeah these guys are total jokes. One day, boys one day.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ginjag]

If they get freight on the move---no movement on that with PTP only high speed. Accounts would have been unusual with PTP, their record speaks volumes, If the money used goes on the actual product not in pockets- with accounts/transparency more trust again.

Are you saying that the PTP Infrastructure project had no plans for freight by rail? Not correct - they planned to increase the rail transport share of freight from 2.5% to 5%. Japan's freight share percentage is 4% by comparison. This link http://www.thai-japanasso.or.th/news_activities/AllNews.php?nid=303&type=Hot%20News provides a detailed presentation of the PTP Infrastructure Projects.

You can bluster all you like about accountability (and good luck with that with the new lot) but this sets out what was going to happen - I really can't see where you could fault the transparent way it would have been carried out - see http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf for details of that process.

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track----

You are right, no fool would have built a narrow gauge HSR as that has never been proposed.

The HSR lines have always been proposed as standard gauge.

And freight on high sped line ?? as Yingluck referred if i'm not mistaken ??

We'll just have to wait and see what does get laid, as it keeps changing from time to time.

2 main points, Nong Khai to eastern seaboard dual and freight.

No Chiang Mai high speed for the who?? Hi Sos would have flown, and others gone on busses.

In the past there were many misleading topics regarding narrow gauge/standard gauge/high speed/routes/ costs/ what order they were to starting with.

hopefully the N K route will be the first to get laid.

[spidermike007]

What I do not understand is, why not get the Chinese to pay for it? They want it so bad. Let them pay for it. They do not seem to know what to do with all that cash. And Thailand seems strapped for cash at the moment. Let the Chinese pay for it, and then allow them to operate the concession, or have an interest in it. Simple. You guys put up the $25 billion. End of story.

[EricBerg]

Here we go. The billions will fly out. The original plan came from the missunderstood fugitive. Now the military government can show what it's worth in the economical field. Check and doublecheck all spendings. The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures. Eight dualtrack lines sounds ok to me.But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Edit: The two highspeed lines to the north (Chiang Khong and Nong Khai) are part of the 2.4 trillion plan, though not mentioned in the article

Here we go. The billions will fly out.

Billions flying out is bad but PTP making Trillions fly out is good.

Post propaganda, much?

The project sounds like heaven for the corruption-vultures.

Of course the PTP's 2.2 trillion baht scheme, with no Parliamentary oversight, would not have any corruption-vultures

Hypocritical, much?

But does Thailand really need two highspeedlines? Will the investment ever show a profit?

Straw man argument, much?

I read the OP twice and couldn't find the reference to two high speed lines. Maybe you could point them out for me.

You sure weren't worried that the six high speed lines the PTP wanted to fund (and never complete) would ever show a profit.

Hypocritical, much?

Stop being such a troll and maybe regain your self-respect.

"Of course the PTP's 2.2 trillion baht scheme, with no Parliamentary oversight, would not have any corruption-vultures

Hypocritical, much?"

"Stop being such a troll and maybe regain your self-respect."

Who's the one in need of self-respect?

[fab4]

If they get freight on the move---no movement on that with PTP only high speed. Accounts would have been unusual with PTP, their record speaks volumes, If the money used goes on the actual product not in pockets- with accounts/transparency more trust again.

Are you saying that the PTP Infrastructure project had no plans for freight by rail? Not correct - they planned to increase the rail transport share of freight from 2.5% to 5%. Japan's freight share percentage is 4% by comparison. This link http://www.thai-japanasso.or.th/news_activities/AllNews.php?nid=303&type=Hot%20News provides a detailed presentation of the PTP Infrastructure Projects.

You can bluster all you like about accountability (and good luck with that with the new lot) but this sets out what was going to happen - I really can't see where you could fault the transparent way it would have been carried out - see http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf for details of that process.

WoW two and a half %---you have no idea if it would be transparent or not, I was going on their governing record only. The same as you crew are going on the military record---ditto.

Funny how you home in on things said on topics when PTP are mentioned, or is it a coincidence.

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track---- That I didn't go for this I do because this is what I proposed a long time ago.

Your links and plans were never to get off the ground even if they were printed. near 3 trillion, was it 50 years to pay back.

We've had this discussion before how you would like to decree where I post - no wonder you support the junta.

Wow, 2.5%?

That is the freight share by rail now and has been for a long time seeing as little money has been earmarked for rail investment over the years, so I fail to see your scorn for a proposal to double that figure. I didn't include the Japan rail freight share percentage for a laugh.

They're not my plans for infrastructure investment, they belong to the previous government - why do people like you need to personalise everything, Thaksin acolyte this, redshirt apologist that, I'm just a poster on this forum with a different viewpoint to yours, get over it.

Where on earth did you get the idea that 1) they were planning a high speed train running on narrow gauge track and 2) they would be running freight on the high speed tracks?

Where do you think the junta is going to get the money from to pay for their less extensive, more expensive infrastructure project, it's not been accounted for in the 2014/2015 budget? Any transparency there?

[ginjag]

If they get freight on the move---no movement on that with PTP only high speed. Accounts would have been unusual with PTP, their record speaks volumes, If the money used goes on the actual product not in pockets- with accounts/transparency more trust again.

Are you saying that the PTP Infrastructure project had no plans for freight by rail? Not correct - they planned to increase the rail transport share of freight from 2.5% to 5%. Japan's freight share percentage is 4% by comparison. This link http://www.thai-japanasso.or.th/news_activities/AllNews.php?nid=303&type=Hot%20News provides a detailed presentation of the PTP Infrastructure Projects.

You can bluster all you like about accountability (and good luck with that with the new lot) but this sets out what was going to happen - I really can't see where you could fault the transparent way it would have been carried out - see http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf for details of that process.

WoW two and a half %---you have no idea if it would be transparent or not, I was going on their governing record only. The same as you crew are going on the military record---ditto.

Funny how you home in on things said on topics when PTP are mentioned, or is it a coincidence.

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track---- That I didn't go for this I do because this is what I proposed a long time ago.

Your links and plans were never to get off the ground even if they were printed. near 3 trillion, was it 50 years to pay back.

We've had this discussion before how you would like to decree where I post - no wonder you support the junta.

Wow, 2.5%?

That is the freight share by rail now and has been for a long time seeing as little money has been earmarked for rail investment over the years, so I fail to see your scorn for a proposal to double that figure. I didn't include the Japan rail freight share percentage for a laugh.

They're not my plans for infrastructure investment, they belong to the previous government - why do people like you need to personalise everything, Thaksin acolyte this, redshirt apologist that, I'm just a poster on this forum with a different viewpoint to yours, get over it.

Where on earth did you get the idea that 1) they were planning a high speed train running on narrow gauge track and 2) they would be running freight on the high speed tracks?

Where do you think the junta is going to get the money from to pay for their less extensive, more expensive infrastructure project, it's not been accounted for in the 2014/2015 budget? Any transparency there?

I answered the post regarding the hundred mix ups in the proposed rail projects you can only look back at the variations of topics on the subject.

Not just the original map.

I want to put this point to you as it sticks in my gullet.

Why do you not forward YOUR ideas on the rail project and prioritize YOUR choices.

What money -from where was PTP acquiring - near 3 trillion for borrowing--transparency where.??

Whenever you post it seems to be to criticize other posts, pick at them, google stats, anything to argue points, rarely forwarding your own suggestions--WHY ?? lets see your ideas on topics, and let others have a go at your posts.

You rarely comment on good points of posts deliberately omitting them from the discussion, referring back to mistakes posters make.

I want to start seeing your own input and ideas on topics.

My stance on the rail project was always -standard gauge-dual tracks-no high speed links-no C.Mai high speed. Main priority Nong Khai incorporating Udon-KKhen-Khorat running to the eastern seaboard. Freight (getting this off the roads) and passenger service.

number 2 the same on route to Malaysia.

[ginjag]

If they get freight on the move---no movement on that with PTP only high speed. Accounts would have been unusual with PTP, their record speaks volumes, If the money used goes on the actual product not in pockets- with accounts/transparency more trust again.

Are you saying that the PTP Infrastructure project had no plans for freight by rail? Not correct - they planned to increase the rail transport share of freight from 2.5% to 5%. Japan's freight share percentage is 4% by comparison. This link http://www.thai-japanasso.or.th/news_activities/AllNews.php?nid=303&type=Hot%20News provides a detailed presentation of the PTP Infrastructure Projects.

You can bluster all you like about accountability (and good luck with that with the new lot) but this sets out what was going to happen - I really can't see where you could fault the transparent way it would have been carried out - see http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf for details of that process.

WoW two and a half %---you have no idea if it would be transparent or not, I was going on their governing record only. The same as you crew are going on the military record---ditto.

Funny how you home in on things said on topics when PTP are mentioned, or is it a coincidence.

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track---- That I didn't go for this I do because this is what I proposed a long time ago.

Your links and plans were never to get off the ground even if they were printed. near 3 trillion, was it 50 years to pay back.

We've had this discussion before how you would like to decree where I post - no wonder you support the junta.

Wow, 2.5%?

That is the freight share by rail now and has been for a long time seeing as little money has been earmarked for rail investment over the years, so I fail to see your scorn for a proposal to double that figure. I didn't include the Japan rail freight share percentage for a laugh.

They're not my plans for infrastructure investment, they belong to the previous government - why do people like you need to personalise everything, Thaksin acolyte this, redshirt apologist that, I'm just a poster on this forum with a different viewpoint to yours, get over it.

Where on earth did you get the idea that 1) they were planning a high speed train running on narrow gauge track and 2) they would be running freight on the high speed tracks?

Where do you think the junta is going to get the money from to pay for their less extensive, more expensive infrastructure project, it's not been accounted for in the 2014/2015 budget? Any transparency there?

UP TO NOW, I support the army because A. there is no choice at this moment in time and B. it is doing a far better job in 2 months than PTP in 3 years. basic reasons --that's it----no frills no raking up about Kelly's armhole just facts like them or lump them.

[Sayonarax]

And you thought the rice scheme was profitable.. you aint seen nothing yet.

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-junta-sets-plan-fast-rail-links-china-102120517.html#CtI5e3t

Thai junta sets plan for fast rail links to China Associated Press – 12 hours ago

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  In this photo taken July 10, 2014, motorcyclists and a pedestrian wait for a train …

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  In this photo taken July 10, 2014, a man, right, walks along rail tracks past moving …

BANGKOK (AP) — Thailand's military government approved a massive budget to upgrade the country's railways including high-speed rail that would eventually link with China as part of an eight-year plan to improve infrastructure, officials said Wednesday.

The junta approved 741.46 billion baht ($23.3 billion) to build two high-speed train routes that will connect Thailand's industrialized eastern seaboard with its northern and the northeastern borders, Transport Ministry permanent secretary Soithip Traisuth said.

Edited July 31, 2014 by metisdead
Edited per fair use policy.

[fab4]

UP TO NOW, I support the army because A. there is no choice at this moment in time and B. it is doing a far better job in 2 months than PTP in 3 years. basic reasons --that's it----no frills no raking up about Kelly's armhole just facts like them or lump them.

Facts are fine, just get them right and I won't criticise your posts.

[ginjag]

UP TO NOW, I support the army because A. there is no choice at this moment in time and B. it is doing a far better job in 2 months than PTP in 3 years. basic reasons --that's it----no frills no raking up about Kelly's armhole just facts like them or lump them.

Facts are fine, just get them right and I won't criticise your posts.

Criticism seem your only motive, so if everyone posted facts there would be no need for you to post.

The good things we talk about that are being cleaned up you seem to ignore, I ask you to mix your posts with any comments about the governing now, what improvements are being made -what inroads/ any thing than jumping in on others replies to argue the toss. Let's have some positive suggestions on what the general could do to improve things...............any answers ??

[fab4]

UP TO NOW, I support the army because A. there is no choice at this moment in time and B. it is doing a far better job in 2 months than PTP in 3 years. basic reasons --that's it----no frills no raking up about Kelly's armhole just facts like them or lump them.

Facts are fine, just get them right and I won't criticise your posts.

Criticism seem your only motive, so if everyone posted facts there would be no need for you to post.

The good things we talk about that are being cleaned up you seem to ignore, I ask you to mix your posts with any comments about the governing now, what improvements are being made -what inroads/ any thing than jumping in on others replies to argue the toss. Let's have some positive suggestions on what the general could do to improve things...............any answers ??

Here we go again, the usual back and forth culminating in well, forget what you were originally replying to, what about this question, or this question or this............anything to distract from the original post.

You made some erroneous statements about the rail infrastructure project of the previous government. I corrected you - accept it and get over it or counter my argument with some relevant facts, don't come back to me with a bunch of irrelevant questions. You'll be asking me what the 15 principles are next .

[Lakegeneve]

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track----

You are right, no fool would have built a narrow gauge HSR as that has never been proposed.

The HSR lines have always been proposed as standard gauge.

And freight on high sped line ?? as Yingluck referred if i'm not mistaken ??

We'll just have to wait and see what does get laid, as it keeps changing from time to time.

2 main points, Nong Khai to eastern seaboard dual and freight.

No Chiang Mai high speed for the who?? Hi Sos would have flown, and others gone on busses.

In the past there were many misleading topics regarding narrow gauge/standard gauge/high speed/routes/ costs/ what order they were to starting with.

hopefully the N K route will be the first to get laid.

I'm not sure why you want to cling onto the fact that the former PM erroneously stated 1 or 2 times that the proposed HSR lines will carrying freight??

You seem very confused and appear to be mixing up info from separate projects. Have you read the above info that I copied and looked at the links? It is very simple.

Current network upgrade and duplication:

There is the current narrow gauge 4500 network consisting of primarily single track lines as it has not been significantly upgraded in the last 5 decades. That network had a previous plan from over 10 years ago to progressively duplicate and upgrade all lines for max speed ops of 120 km/h. Some sections of the network were intended to be upgraded to 160km/h max operation for freight.

The Dems finally gave that program significant funding in 2009 to progress the implementation timeframe. PT supported that funding and now so have the junta. However, as stated the political changes have delayed the program by a few years.

Nothing has changed. The same 1 section under current tender and the same 5 sections to be tendered, were the same 6 sections next to be tendered.

Converting to standard gauge?

Originally in the early 00s, the OTP SRT network plan was to electricity the network after duplicating it, and then convert it to standard gauge.

1 ) Duplicate all lines,

2 ) Gradual electrification of the network

3 ) Convert most lines to standard gauge

However, the standard gauge conversion was later dropped when the HSR plans were proposed in 09.

HSR lines

The HSR lines were first proposed back in 1996 with the eastern seaboard HSR line. We then had a south one proposed at the start of last decade and one to Korat proposed back in 2004. As a culmination of these plans, OTP proposed a new HSR network plan to the Dems in 09. Completely new standard gauge, electrified lines. The Dems supported it, PT supported it but wasted time adjusting their priorities. The junta wants to leave it to the next govt - which will progress the plans (Again read the posts linked above).

HSR is generally regarded as 200-250km/h as above. 160km/h is not considered high speed - though in the thai context where ave speeds are 45-50km/h it is very high.

Prayuths NE standard gauge freight line

The only real change is that Prayuth wants a new NE standard gauge line and is prepared to fund it. Supposedly the line will be built in order that it may be further upgraded in the future to a HSR line. However, the costs involved in building such a line that can be upgraded for future HSR operations make this questionable. It also raises a whole range of issues related to rolling stock and future network plans and integration with neighboring countries (Burma, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam & Laos (only 3km) which all use narrow gauge. (Though the proposed Laos HSR line will be standard and the Malaysian company building a line from Savan to Vietnam will be standard gauge). We'll have to see what exactly will be proposed but frankly I doubt that much will progress in the term of the junta govt with this proposal.

However, yesterday the Perm Sec of the MOT stated, "But in the long run the new 1.435-metre wide tracks will become the standard for the country’s future rail network, allowing it to connect with rail tracks from neighbouring countries, permanent secretary for transport Soithip Traisuth said yesterday." At the same time he states that the 6 duplication/upgrade tenders for the narrow gauge network will go ahead. We will have to wait and see if this is just another thought bubble to keep Prayuth happy given his desire for standard gauge for the NE line or whether or the MOT is actually reverting back to converting the whole network to standard gauge.

Plenty of statements are by politicians and decision makers made which have little relevance to reality in the long run. Former PM Samak once promised in early 2008 to build all 10 planned metro lines for Bangkok in 2 years when he proposed his new Gold Ring line that he drew on the back of a napkin once night!!! (See post #127 in this thread, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-6)

[ginjag]

UP TO NOW, I support the army because A. there is no choice at this moment in time and B. it is doing a far better job in 2 months than PTP in 3 years. basic reasons --that's it----no frills no raking up about Kelly's armhole just facts like them or lump them.

Facts are fine, just get them right and I won't criticise your posts.

Criticism seem your only motive, so if everyone posted facts there would be no need for you to post.

The good things we talk about that are being cleaned up you seem to ignore, I ask you to mix your posts with any comments about the governing now, what improvements are being made -what inroads/ any thing than jumping in on others replies to argue the toss. Let's have some positive suggestions on what the general could do to improve things...............any answers ??

Here we go again, the usual back and forth culminating in well, forget what you were originally replying to, what about this question, or this question or this............anything to distract from the original post.

You made some erroneous statements about the rail infrastructure project of the previous government. I corrected you - accept it and get over it or counter my argument with some relevant facts, don't come back to me with a bunch of irrelevant questions. You'll be asking me what the 15 principles are next .

I have been put straight on the rail job thanks, #75, this is what it's all about. Never get answers only like this weak kneed rhetoric.

You jump in to defend PTP and it's short comings, and attack the army. The same old argument comes to mind, if you are prepared to be in constant denial I want to ask you again, list the mega achievements PTP came up with and implemented transparently in their 3 years.

List the mega achievements the army is uncovering, and the proposals they are making.

You have avoided this from day one. If you cannot do this then my firm belief must be you are on an agenda that most posters are not.

I posted earlier but you could not answer, Yingluck had an agenda, she failed to respond to probing questions regarding PTP antics, her agenda is the same as yours just steer clear of these/avoid only jump in and attack posts.

Your post answering is doing what you accused me of. I admitted I got some rail projects wrong. YOU ?? same avoidance of probing questions.

I said mainly good Chiang Mai axed. and thumbs up for double track standard gauge---you overlooked that as the little bits I got wrong were to your liking.

[ginjag]

This set up is near entirely different. before freight on high speed narrow track ?? Didn't Yingluck refer to it at one time. But anyway--CM out the window---GOOD. as it served no purpose for fast train there the rich would have flown. That is why I didn't believe in the projects transparency---No fool would have built a high speed rail link to another city on narrow track----

You are right, no fool would have built a narrow gauge HSR as that has never been proposed.

The HSR lines have always been proposed as standard gauge.

And freight on high sped line ?? as Yingluck referred if i'm not mistaken ??

We'll just have to wait and see what does get laid, as it keeps changing from time to time.

2 main points, Nong Khai to eastern seaboard dual and freight.

No Chiang Mai high speed for the who?? Hi Sos would have flown, and others gone on busses.

In the past there were many misleading topics regarding narrow gauge/standard gauge/high speed/routes/ costs/ what order they were to starting with.

hopefully the N K route will be the first to get laid.

I'm not sure why you want to cling onto the fact that the former PM erroneously stated 1 or 2 times that the proposed HSR lines will carrying freight??

You seem very confused and appear to be mixing up info from separate projects. Have you read the above info that I copied and looked at the links? It is very simple.

Current network upgrade and duplication:

There is the current narrow gauge 4500 network consisting of primarily single track lines as it has not been significantly upgraded in the last 5 decades. That network had a previous plan from over 10 years ago to progressively duplicate and upgrade all lines for max speed ops of 120 km/h. Some sections of the network were intended to be upgraded to 160km/h max operation for freight.

The Dems finally gave that program significant funding in 2009 to progress the implementation timeframe. PT supported that funding and now so have the junta. However, as stated the political changes have delayed the program by a few years.

Nothing has changed. The same 1 section under current tender and the same 5 sections to be tendered, were the same 6 sections next to be tendered.

Converting to standard gauge?

Originally in the early 00s, the OTP SRT network plan was to electricity the network after duplicating it, and then convert it to standard gauge.

1 ) Duplicate all lines,

2 ) Gradual electrification of the network

3 ) Convert most lines to standard gauge

However, the standard gauge conversion was later dropped when the HSR plans were proposed in 09.

HSR lines

The HSR lines were first proposed back in 1996 with the eastern seaboard HSR line. We then had a south one proposed at the start of last decade and one to Korat proposed back in 2004. As a culmination of these plans, OTP proposed a new HSR network plan to the Dems in 09. Completely new standard gauge, electrified lines. The Dems supported it, PT supported it but wasted time adjusting their priorities. The junta wants to leave it to the next govt - which will progress the plans (Again read the posts linked above).

HSR is generally regarded as 200-250km/h as above. 160km/h is not considered high speed - though in the thai context where ave speeds are 45-50km/h it is very high.

Prayuths NE standard gauge freight line

The only real change is that Prayuth wants a new NE standard gauge line and is prepared to fund it. Supposedly the line will be built in order that it may be further upgraded in the future to a HSR line. However, the costs involved in building such a line that can be upgraded for future HSR operations make this questionable. It also raises a whole range of issues related to rolling stock and future network plans and integration with neighboring countries (Burma, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam & Laos (only 3km) which all use narrow gauge. (Though the proposed Laos HSR line will be standard and the Malaysian company building a line from Savan to Vietnam will be standard gauge). We'll have to see what exactly will be proposed but frankly I doubt that much will progress in the term of the junta govt with this proposal.

However, yesterday the Perm Sec of the MOT stated, "But in the long run the new 1.435-metre wide tracks will become the standard for the country’s future rail network, allowing it to connect with rail tracks from neighbouring countries, permanent secretary for transport Soithip Traisuth said yesterday." At the same time he states that the 6 duplication/upgrade tenders for the narrow gauge network will go ahead. We will have to wait and see if this is just another thought bubble to keep Prayuth happy given his desire for standard gauge for the NE line or whether or the MOT is actually reverting back to converting the whole network to standard gauge.

Plenty of statements are by politicians and decision makers made which have little relevance to reality in the long run. Former PM Samak once promised in early 2008 to build all 10 planned metro lines for Bangkok in 2 years when he proposed his new Gold Ring line that he drew on the back of a napkin once night!!! (See post #127 in this thread, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-6)

Can be confusing can't it ?? so many changes from this to that so many spokespersons spouting about it---so much money PTP wanted -and would never be around to answer for their actions--stated 50 years to pay off ?? this line first that one next scrap this add that.

I admit over the last 3 years I was confused. Hopefully it will all come out in the wash.

[Lakegeneve]

Prayuths NE standard gauge freight line

We'll have to see what exactly will be proposed but frankly I doubt that much will progress in the term of the junta govt with this proposal.

OTP have stated that the estimated costs of the new standard gauge line ot the NE are a “budget framework”. That, "further studies into the cost of the project are still needed and it should take about one year to come up with definite numbers"

As I suggested, it is highly doubtful that much will actually happen for Prayuths new NE standard gauge line during the term of the junta.

[fab4]

I have been put straight on the rail job thanks, #75, this is what it's all about. Never get answers only like this weak kneed rhetoric.

You jump in to defend PTP and it's short comings, and attack the army. The same old argument comes to mind, if you are prepared to be in constant denial I want to ask you again, list the mega achievements PTP came up with and implemented transparently in their 3 years.

List the mega achievements the army is uncovering, and the proposals they are making.

You have avoided this from day one. If you cannot do this then my firm belief must be you are on an agenda that most posters are not.

I posted earlier but you could not answer, Yingluck had an agenda, she failed to respond to probing questions regarding PTP antics, her agenda is the same as yours just steer clear of these/avoid only jump in and attack posts.

Your post answering is doing what you accused me of. I admitted I got some rail projects wrong. YOU ?? same avoidance of probing questions.

I said mainly good Chiang Mai axed. and thumbs up for double track standard gauge---you overlooked that as the little bits I got wrong were to your liking.

"I want to ask you again, list the mega achievements PTP came up with and implemented transparently in their 3 years.

List the mega achievements the army is uncovering, and the proposals they are making."

As predicted, nothing whatsoever about the post I was replying to, nor indeed, the thread. Instead, more unrelated demands. Give it a rest ginjag.

[DekDaeng]

"highly doubtful that much will actually happen for Prayuths new NE standard gauge line during the term of the junta."

Easily solved.