Belgium embassy does not issue new passports

[kriswillems]

According to the website of the Belgian embassy in Thailand, the Belgian embassy does not issue new passports to those people that still have residency in Belgium.

 

That means, to get a new passport in Thailand you've to give up your residency in Belgium.

By doing so, you'll loose several rights in Belgium, and you'll have to pay tax on your Belgian income following the rules of non-residents.

 

How do Belgian people handle this, taking into account the always changing visa rules for Thailand?

Are you planning to give up your residency in Belgium, even if this means you're subjected to the randomness of the Thai visa system?

What happens if your passport has already expired or is about to expire and you arrive at embassy?

 

Website of the embassy and relevant information:

http://countries.diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/thailand/consulaire_diensten/paspoorten/

http://countries.diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/thailand/newsroom/news.jsp?id=252720&title=ni_170714_thai_immigration_bureau

 

PS. If your passport is stolen or lost you still can get a temporary passport from the embassy.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by kriswillems

[JesseFrank]

You don't need to give up residency, you need to register yourself at the Embassy.

[kriswillems]

You don't need to give up residency, you need to register yourself at the Embassy.

 

Well, that's not what the website says. It's a new law that start to be effective on 15 June 2014.

 

See this sentence: Onze ambassades en consulaten zijn niet langer bevoegd om gewone paspoorten af te leveren aan personen die in de bevolkingsregisters in België zijn geregistreerd.

Translation: Our embassies do not longer have the authority to deliver normal passports to people that are registered in the Belgian resident-register.

Edited July 30, 2014 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

Here's the law that became effective on 15/06/2014:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B26cG0qIOT-5dmx0LW9mWkR4ajQ/edit

 

Many things changed, like new passport are valid for 7 years.

 

The embassy refers to the law of 15/6/2014 in a message they wrote in the thaivlac newsletter and they repeat in that newletter that they can't give passports to people that are registered in the Belgian residency register.

 

However, the Belgian embassy in Thailand is the only Belgian embassy I could find that made such a statement, I can't find it on the website of any other Belgian embassy.

 

Also, if I read the law of 15/6/2014, I can't find the change the embassy talks about. The only thing I can find is that if you register yourself in the Belgian embassy in Thailand, you can (with the new law) also apply for a new passport in another country (for instance Vietnam), even if you're registered in Thailand.

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by kriswillems

[Tomtomtom69]

I am a dual citizen, with Belgian citizenship. My Belgian passport is the one I use least often and therefore has very few stamps in it and has never been full. However, of all the passports I have it also has the shortest validity (5 years) and least number of pages (30, but in practice less than this are useable as normally the first 1-2 pages are not stamped by many countries).

 

I am registered in Australia though and therefore have always been able to obtain a new Belgian passport through the embassy over there. Should I anticipate the need to renew my Belgian passport in the future, I will plan accordingly and try to do so while back home in Australia for a visit rather than in Thailand. However, even with these new regulations, it does sound like I would still be able to obtain a new passport in Bangkok if I needed to?

 

I have easily renewed my Swiss passport in Bangkok and Aussie passport in Ho Chi Minh on previous occasions. Took only a week for the Aussie one to arrive and perhaps 2 weeks for the Swiss one.

[kriswillems]

Sorry, the last link I posted was just some addendum to the law of 15/6/2014. Here's the full law:

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B26cG0qIOT-5UHdZT3VnTW14QjA/edit

 

It says in chapter 8, art 35 that you can only get in the register of the embassy if you're not registered in Belgium.

And in chapter 10, art 58 it says that you've to get a passport where you're registered.

 

So, if the embassy enforces, chapter 8, art 35, you can't get a Belgian passport in Thailand, if you still have residency in Belgium.

So, the warning the embassy wrote in the Thaivlac newsletter is correct, but I don't know if they will enforce it.

 

Did somebody with residency in Belgium successfully applied for a normal new passport at the Belgian embassy in Thailand after 15/6/2014?

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

I am a dual citizen, with Belgian citizenship. My Belgian passport is the one I use least often and therefore has very few stamps in it and has never been full. However, of all the passports I have it also has the shortest validity (5 years) and least number of pages (30, but in practice less than this are useable as normally the first 1-2 pages are not stamped by many countries).

 

I am registered in Australia though and therefore have always been able to obtain a new Belgian passport through the embassy over there. Should I anticipate the need to renew my Belgian passport in the future, I will plan accordingly and try to do so while back home in Australia for a visit rather than in Thailand. However, even with these new regulations, it does sound like I would still be able to obtain a new passport in Bangkok if I needed to?

 

I have easily renewed my Swiss passport in Bangkok and Aussie passport in Ho Chi Minh on previous occasions. Took only a week for the Aussie one to arrive and perhaps 2 weeks for the Swiss one.

If you registered your residency in Australia at the Belgian embassy in Australia, you should according to the addendum on the new law, still be able to get a new Belgian passport in BKK.

 

However, if you would still have residency in Belgium, you can according to the announcement of the Belgian embassy in the Thaivlac newsletter and according to the website of the Belgian embassy in Thailand, only get a new passport in Belgium.

[JesseFrank]

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

[david555]

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

No one    can not apply for new Belgium passport by mail, you have to apply in person , and hand over the old one for making it invalid, in case of lost they need an police rapport .

 

I do not see the problem for a person still living in Belgium officially to get a new passport   ,..... if living here unofficially ....... .,...... it just cost him a trip home to Belgium once in a Period of 6 / 7 years  , or  take" the pain" and change your adres to Thailand as i did ....

 

Emergancy document for travelling home are still deliverd by the Belgium embassy

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by david555

[JesseFrank]

 

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

No one    can not apply for new Belgium passport by mail, you have to apply in person , and hand over the old one for making it invalid, in case of lost they need an police rapport .

 

I do not see the problem for a person still living in Belgium officially to get a new passport   ,..... if living here unofficially ....... .,...... it just cost him a trip home to Belgium once in a Period of 6 / 7 years  , or  take" the pain" and change your adres to Thailand as i did ....

 

Emergancy document for travelling home are still deliverd by the Belgium embassy

 

 

 

 

 

I applied for a new passport with the Embassy by mail. They send me the documents by email, after which I completed them and sent them back by EMS. When my passport was ready they emailed me again and I sent in my old passport by EMS after which they sent me my new passport by EMS. Never been to the Embassy for it.
 

[fvw53]

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

 

No for the new passport with biometric data they need for instance your finger prints and those have to be provided while only by you to a passport officer ..otherwise you could send the fingerprints of somebody else

[JesseFrank]

 

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

 

No for the new passport with biometric data they need for instance your finger prints and those have to be provided while only by you to a passport officer ..otherwise you could send the fingerprints of somebody else

 

 

I told them I lost my fingers

 

On a serious note, the finger print is new to me, my last passport doesn't have that detail yet.

[paz]

That means, to get a new passport in Thailand you've to give up your residency in Belgium.

By doing so, you'll loose several rights in Belgium, and you'll have to pay tax on your Belgian income following the rules of non-residents.

 

Normally taxation is more favorable for non-residents, is that not the case in Belgium?

Also I suppose one that has changed residency to another country can still re-establish it in home country at a later time.

[Thorgal]

What do you call by advantages/rights in Belgium that you will loose If you have to register yourself to your embassy in BKK ?

If you are resident in Thailand : All salaries/revenues outside Thailand are not subjected to Thai Tax regulations as long as it's paid on a non-Thai bank account.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

In Thailand you can apply for residency as non-immigrant resident (yellow book) and later as permanent resident(bleu book).
In parallel you should register first to you own embassy.

Idem dito for your children/wife if they can obtain Belgian nationality.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 30, 2014 by Thorgal

[david555]

 

 

You can of course also just apply for your new passport by post in Belgium, similar as how it is done with the Embassy.

No one    can not apply for new Belgium passport by mail, you have to apply in person , and hand over the old one for making it invalid, in case of lost they need an police rapport .

 

I do not see the problem for a person still living in Belgium officially to get a new passport   ,..... if living here unofficially ....... .,...... it just cost him a trip home to Belgium once in a Period of 6 / 7 years  , or  take" the pain" and change your adres to Thailand as i did ....

 

Emergancy document for travelling home are still deliverd by the Belgium embassy

 

 

 

 

 

I applied for a new passport with the Embassy by mail. They send me the documents by email, after which I completed them and sent them back by EMS. When my passport was ready they emailed me again and I sent in my old passport by EMS after which they sent me my new passport by EMS. Never been to the Embassy for it.

Yes , in the old system.! Not anymore now for the reasons of the electronic id Card same , and for the biometric pasport, before it was a courtesy from the embassy to avoid too muych hassle for applicant  (some must come from far in Thailand To BKK )

 

Proof of life (for pensioners money ) has beeing also deliverd as described by mail , but als changes there for now coming in person to collect or medical certificate for sending by mail, OR a picture from person holding newspaper with visible date !! (no joking  !! )

Edited July 31, 2014 by david555

[david555]

What do you call by advantages/rights in Belgium that you will loose If you have to register yourself to your embassy in BKK ?

If you are resident in Thailand : All salaries/revenues outside Thailand are not subjected to Thai Tax regulations as long as it's paid on a non-Thai bank account.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

In Thailand you can apply for residency as non-immigrant resident (yellow book) and later as permanent resident(bleu book).
In parallel you should register first to you own embassy.

Idem dito for your children/wife if they can obtain Belgian nationality.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not saying this about the poster,

 

but it was possible for people inscribed in Belgium to receive unemployement money or other social security benefits while  living in Thailand , especcially if 60+ (exempt for stay aivailble in Belgium constantly, and not beeing availble for accepting work offers ) , as they changed some social statusses as pre-pension became now unemployment with extension benefits (this could for some cases from already + 50 , so for now they are "cutting ropes"

 

All togheter mesures for making passport fraud also more difficult ,..... and in combination with stronger restrictions on controle acces to Thailand by Thai Immigration .......putting global control on persons (and their actions past and present, more controlable  (not only Belgium .....Thailand has be to much a hiding place in the past for who needed it

[OJAS]

Oh dear, looks like the "British passport renewal disease" is proving contagious..

Edited July 31, 2014 by OJAS

[david555]

Oh dear, looks like the "British passport renewal disease" is proving contagious..

Difficult to argue with the new rule , as a "genuine tourist "normally should plan his " Holliday " ,

good by checkin before his / ...hers documents needed .... ..., and besides even inscribed with adress in Thailand officially at own Embassy , you can still apply for a passport in your latest commune office in Belgium .....as normally many visit the home country from time to time (as i do )  exept some individual ones.....

[Thorgal]

What do you call by advantages/rights in Belgium that you will loose If you have to register yourself to your embassy in BKK ?

If you are resident in Thailand : All salaries/revenues outside Thailand are not subjected to Thai Tax regulations as long as it's paid on a non-Thai bank account.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

In Thailand you can apply for residency as non-immigrant resident (yellow book) and later as permanent resident(bleu book).
In parallel you should register first to you own embassy.

Idem dito for your children/wife if they can obtain Belgian nationality.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not saying this about the poster,
 
but it was possible for people inscribed in Belgium to receive unemployement money or other social security benefits while  living in Thailand , especcially if 60+ (exempt for stay aivailble in Belgium constantly, and not beeing availble for accepting work offers ) , as they changed some social statusses as pre-pension became now unemployment with extension benefits (this could for some cases from already + 50 , so for now they are "cutting ropes"
 
All togheter mesures for making passport fraud also more difficult ,..... and in combination with stronger restrictions on controle acces to Thailand by Thai Immigration .......putting global control on persons (and their actions past and present, more controlable  (not only Belgium .....Thailand has be to much a hiding place in the past for who needed it

Thanks for your feedback.

Perhaps we should ask our embassy in BKK to open a RVA and VDAB office somewhere in Thailand...
Belgian embassies are allways keen to promote our export products.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 31, 2014 by Thorgal

[david555]

 

 

What do you call by advantages/rights in Belgium that you will loose If you have to register yourself to your embassy in BKK ?

If you are resident in Thailand : All salaries/revenues outside Thailand are not subjected to Thai Tax regulations as long as it's paid on a non-Thai bank account.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

In Thailand you can apply for residency as non-immigrant resident (yellow book) and later as permanent resident(bleu book).
In parallel you should register first to you own embassy.

Idem dito for your children/wife if they can obtain Belgian nationality.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not saying this about the poster,
 
but it was possible for people inscribed in Belgium to receive unemployement money or other social security benefits while  living in Thailand , especcially if 60+ (exempt for stay aivailble in Belgium constantly, and not beeing availble for accepting work offers ) , as they changed some social statusses as pre-pension became now unemployment with extension benefits (this could for some cases from already + 50 , so for now they are "cutting ropes"
 
All togheter mesures for making passport fraud also more difficult ,..... and in combination with stronger restrictions on controle acces to Thailand by Thai Immigration .......putting global control on persons (and their actions past and present, more controlable  (not only Belgium .....Thailand has be to much a hiding place in the past for who needed it

Thanks for your feedback.

Perhaps we should ask our embassy in BKK to open a RVA and VDAB office somewhere in Thailand...
Belgian embassies are allways keen to promote our export products.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

You forgot the RVP , that is the main "exported products" delivery to Thailand i think (almost on expiering date  )

[kriswillems]

I don't get any unemployment money or any other kind of money from government and I never asked for it.

I own property in Belgium which I give for rent. It's possible that some day I might return to Belgium to live there (if I would like to let my son study in Belgium).

 

I am still covered under the Belgian health insurance, but it's not possible to use this insurance abroad - that is : the insurance will not cover any expenses abroad after 3 months after your first claim (abroad) AND the insurance covers only urgent care (for the rest you've to fly back to Belgium). So, the insurance is pretty worthless in Thailand.

The health insurance covers my medical expenses when I am back in Belgium. This is what's important for me.

I never made any claim in Thailand.

 

3 things do make me hesitate to move my residence to Thailand.

1. If I move my residence to Thailand, and I get a medical problem (which I want them to take of in Belgium) can I still reapply for the Belgian health insurance? And how long does it take? And will they pay for the expenses I have at that moment?

2. How will the rental income in Belgium be taxed if I move my residence to Thailand?

3. Suppose the Thai visa rules get harder and I need to travel back and forward between Thailand and Belgium, how easy will it be in this case to choose my official residence in Belgium?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by kriswillems

[david555]

I don't get any unemployment money or any other kind of money from government and I never asked for it.

I own property in Belgium which I give for rent. It's possible that some day I might return to Belgium to live there (if I would like to let my son study in Belgium).

 

I am still covered under the Belgian health insurance, but it's not possible to use this insurance abroad - that is : the insurance will not cover any expenses abroad after 3 months after your first claim (abroad) AND the insurance covers only urgent care (for the rest you've to fly back to Belgium). So, the insurance is pretty worthless in Thailand.

The health insurance covers my medical expenses when I am back in Belgium. This is what's important for me.

I never made any claim in Thailand.

 

3 things do make me hesitate to move my residence to Thailand.

1. If I move my residence to Thailand, and I get a medical problem (which I want them to take of in Belgium) can I still reapply for the Belgian health insurance? And how long does it take? And will they pay for the expenses I have at that moment?

2. How will the rental income in Belgium be taxed if I move my residence to Thailand?

3. Suppose the Thai visa rules get harder and I need to travel back and forward between Thailand and Belgium, how easy will it be in this case to choose my official residence in Belgium?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This i marked first in my reply    "Not saying this about the poster," 

 

Now , about your inssurance retaking power of use starts as soon you put foot on Belgium ground ( ofcourse you have to pas mutuality (ziekenfonds / mutualiteit ) for the documents , even normally no need to pay unless you like the additional benefits (crutches and other things , not specified to me in an answer..) even when just visiting Belgium temporary , if needed for hospitalisation the advice was to sure pas by to them , so they can ask the hospital send the bills to Mutuallity ...!

I asked this as a pensioner , because pensioners have forfilled the earning s complete for Social security

 

Her under , the flemish version i received as a reply on question about this :

 

Your insurrance as a Belgium tourist does count Only for Max. 3 months hospitalisation in  A year , not counting for" residents" in concerning country , and payment must be done by yourself and later claim back with proper documents (?)

 

Concerning taxation ; ALL you earn in Belgium is taxable in Belgium , received rent , itrest from bank etc.

 

On Monday, 14 April 2014, 16:03, "304, Bevolking" <[email protected]> wrote:
Beste heer xxxxx.....
Als u in België en naar de dokter gaat, kan u de doktersbriefjes gewoon binnen brengen op één
van onze plaatselijke kantoren. Wij heropenen dan uw dossier voor de periode dat u medische
kosten heeft in België.
Wordt u opgenomen in het ziekenhuis? Dan contacteert u ons best op voorhand via het
telefoonnummer +32 (0) 285 44 60. Wij openen uw dossier dan op voorhand zodat het ziekenhuis
rechtstreeks de factuur naar ons kan opsturen.
Hebt u nog vragen? Aarzel dan niet om me te contacteren.
Met vriendelijke groeten
Kelly Van Der Stappen
adjunct-diensthoofd dienst Bevolking
T   03 285 44 98   -   F   03 285 46 08
E   [email protected]   -   W   www.devoorzorg.beUw recht op terugbetaling is gebaseerd op uw Belgisch pensioen en niet op de aanvullende bijdrage
(aansluitkosten). Wilt u gebruik maken van onze voordele en diensten (zoals bijvoorbeeld de uitleendienst
voor medische materialen) dan vragen wij wel een bijdrage voor de aanvullende verzekering. U kan dit
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Met vriendelijke groeten
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De VoorZorg - Socialistische Mutualiteit van de provincie Antwerpen
Sint-Bernardsesteenweg 200, 2020 Antwerpen

 

link with another explaning about same thing

http://www.cm.be/wat-te-doen-bij/gezinswijzigingen/pensionering/buitenland.jsp?selec...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by david555

[kriswillems]

Thanks David.

But I am not a pensioner. I am 41.

But I think the information you gave might be useful for others.

 

I have no problems giving up my rights in Belgium, if that would mean I could get equal rights in Thailand.

Unfortunately that is not the case and I have zero rights here (even not the right to permanently stay here, on my visa I am still called a non-immigrant).

Edited July 31, 2014 by kriswillems

[david555]

Thanks David.

But I am not a pensioner. I am 41.

But I think the information you gave might be useful for others.

 

I have no problems giving up my rights in Belgium, if that would mean I could get equal rights in Thailand.

Unfortunately that is not the case and I have zero rights here (even not the right to permanently stay here, on my visa I am still called a non-immigrant).

Ok , i understand , but on Fgov.be they say there is a basic right on your Belgium Identity or just SIS card for medicall assistance ( for wich payment i do not know ) so it is always better to take a flight home in case of an operation or broken hip . Wheelchair to airplain and out in taxi or ambulance to Hospital , depending on your income you have the maximum invoice system (maximum medische factuur te betalen in een jaar volgens inkomen )

 

You could ask same information for your case if taking adress in Thailand to mutuality by email , could be your personal case is possible too , i am not an expert in insurrance , just taking care of my case.

Maybe you do not know , but it is possible to be out of Belgium with no problems of loosing adress because absence for Max 1 year by before reporting your absence , i made 15 months out of that before i burned my ships an sail to Thailand  ..... ( I have a portable inflateble ship with me Always   ) by this way all stay legal in Belgium if some case develop while in Thailand , whatever could come up , they know your wherabouts .!!

 

Link tijdelijk afwezigheid:

http://www.antwerpen.be/eCache/ABE/4/489.Y29udGV4dD04MDMzOTI3.html

[Thorgal]

I don't get any unemployment money or any other kind of money from government and I never asked for it.
I own property in Belgium which I give for rent. It's possible that some day I might return to Belgium to live there (if I would like to let my son study in Belgium).
 
I am still covered under the Belgian health insurance, but it's not possible to use this insurance abroad - that is : the insurance will not cover any expenses abroad after 3 months after your first claim (abroad) AND the insurance covers only urgent care (for the rest you've to fly back to Belgium). So, the insurance is pretty worthless in Thailand.
The health insurance covers my medical expenses when I am back in Belgium. This is what's important for me.
I never made any claim in Thailand.
 
3 things do make me hesitate to move my residence to Thailand.
1. If I move my residence to Thailand, and I get a medical problem (which I want them to take of in Belgium) can I still reapply for the Belgian health insurance? And how long does it take? And will they pay for the expenses I have at that moment?
2. How will the rental income in Belgium be taxed if I move my residence to Thailand?
3. Suppose the Thai visa rules get harder and I need to travel back and forward between Thailand and Belgium, how easy will it be in this case to choose my official residence in Belgium?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Kris,

1. As long as you have a salary in Belgium (you pay RSZ) you can have full health insurance coverage only in Belgium. In Thailand you should have a private Thai health insurance to cover your possible health expenses in Thailand. You need to fill in form E-106 so that both healt insurances will pay the right bills.

http://www.securex-mut.be/nl/particulier/mijn-werk/mijn-loopbaan/ziekenfonds-buitenland/

2. You need to mention the right value of your KI in your yearly tax declaration form. 40% will be added and total amount will be taxable. You don't have to pay anything from your received rental fees. Except if you rent to a company or someone who's going to use your property for professional reasons : taxes will be paid on your rental fee -> tax authority will see it as an income.
Also if you rented to private persons more than one property you can be taxed on the rental fees, again they will see it as an income. I'm not shure but I think that debates started in Belgium to tax the rental fee as average income.


http://www.belgium.be/nl/belastingen/inkomstenbelastingen/particulieren_en_zelfstandigen/belastbaar_inkomen/onroerende_inkomsten/

http://www.fiscalibus.be/show.php?id=72

http://www.vandaag.be/binnenland/143963_plan-om-huurinkomsten-te-belasten-kan-dramatische-gevolgen-hebben.html


3.1 Depends on your family status. If you're not maried but you have a Thai child, you can obtain a O visa for 3 months and extendable for 1 month without leaving the country. After the 4 months you need to go to Vientiane, Yangoon, etc to apply for a new O visa. If you apply on a TR (tourist) visa you will be limited to extend it abroad.

3.2 Depends on how long you want to stay each time in Thailand. No need to tell me, but you have multiple possibilities to go ahead to visit your family.

Cheers ,


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 31, 2014 by Thorgal