Teachers told not to panic about visa and work permit crackdown

[belg]

isn't that something they should have done years ago ? checking all schools and checking for valid WP & licence in the first place ?

[rrbing]

Forgive me if I happen to offend ...
but shouldn't teachers have the said documents or be in the process of obtaining them....in order to legally teach.
IMHO. If you are neither of the above but teach.....get your paperwork sorted ASAP.
Consider the Inspector's words as a 'shot across the bow' and ample warning.
It shows he is aware of such practices

 

So from what I understand you cannot get your paperwork unless you have a school that sponsors you. And schools are incentivized to keep teachers illegal (it's cheaper, they can't get in trouble for it, and if there is a conflict the teacher can't sue because he's illegal). Therefore schools generally promise that you will get your work visa after 2-3 months of work, then after that they drag their feet and bungle the paperwork for another year until: A. you either quit and they find a replacement, or B. You come to accept the fact that you will be working illegally. 

 

The key to fixing this would be to fine the schools for hiring illegal teachers. Or as you alluded to, allowing teachers to get their paperwork fixed without having needing a school to do their part. 

[schondie]

There's going to be some schools panicking in Phatthalung as the Labour Department only allows some schools to employ "Language Trainers" instead of English teachers. One school I was at earlier this year was too tight to make a donation to the LD. The owner is a multi millionaire many times over and they know she's tighter than a camel's ar$e in a sandstorm.

 

I feel sorry for the teachers but feel nothing for the schools who try and save a satang here and there. I hope they get a kick up the ar$e from Immigration.

[thhMan]

There's going to be some schools panicking in Phatthalung as the Labour Department only allows some schools to employ "Language Trainers" instead of English teachers. One school I was at earlier this year was too tight to make a donation to the LD. The owner is a multi millionaire many times over and they know she's tighter than a camel's ar$e in a sandstorm.

 

I feel sorry for the teachers but feel nothing for the schools who try and save a satang here and there. I hope they get a kick up the ar$e from Immigration.

 

This Multi Millionaire... is that a fact... they dont have debts??? You would be suprised at the lengths people go to maintain an image they cannot afford... Who is saying the are tighter than a camles.... It would be those that havent made someting of their life... would it?

 

It is possible to apply for other teaching positions while working for a school....

 

And keep in mind.. many staff, whether it be a shop, school or otherwise do bitch about their salary....

Edited July 31, 2014 by thhMan

[soalbundy]

I think that there wont be a crackdown, somebody has realized that a lot of teachers are going to be missing,someone has said a few words.

[marc651]

"Dont panic teachers!"

There is a solution to everything. Just make sure you get your tea money ready ;-)

[GoNavy]

"According to Inspector Tianchai, him and and his team are also now strictly enforcing the requirement for hotels and guesthouses to report details of all guests within 24 hours of check in."

 

Governments!  They set up all these rules/laws to control the population.  They make us jump all these hoops telling us it is to keep order and discipline.  Yet, with all this paperwork.....unless they have a super computer to keep track easily it is all stacks of paperwork in a corner.  I have seen it.  I have experienced it.  All busy work.  Do you think if one of us does wrong they will go through stacks of paper to track our route while in country?  I doubt it.  

 

Regarding teachers and work permits.  Thailand is crying for English teachers.  The national movement is to make English the secondary language.  That was decreed by the King decades back.  Yet how many and what kind of Thai's speak it, more then beach English?  So, why do they make this permit business so hard to attain?  More would get them if not.  I have spoken to a few teachers.  Some do, some don't get permits.  Word from the schools is not to worry.  Others say they have known and taught themselves and never been bothered by anyone about permits.  

 

If the country wants something, they should charge the schools/universities on obtaining these papers.  

 

[White Tiger]

I think it would be VERY foolish of anyone to to believe that they will turn a blind eye in the long run...  will merely mean "more time" to get things straight, which of course will be very welcome to those concerned. I just would not bank on it in a few weeks/months time...

 

Yes it's probably a fair bet that someone will be banking something out of this.

[Tiffer]

 

 

Ah yes, lull them into a false sense of security, then pounce!!

 

Quite right. Pounce on those who spoil it for the rest of us,

 

 

 

@ Johnnie99

       -  do you really think that foreigners "enjoy" going on a visa run ????

  its a complete waste of time and money.

 

if the schools (in question) were more honest and not so lazy, they would apply for the teachers work permit in the correct manner and then the teacher will not need to do these annoying visa-runs every 3 months.

 

its NOT the teachers that are "spoiling" it for the rest of us!!  they would LOVE to have the correct visa!!  

  you should blame the owners of the schools that "cant be bothered to do it properly"

 

 

That's like fencing stolen goods and saying that you're not in the wrong because YOU didn't steal them... move on son.

[kingstonkid]

Here is the problem the schools have.

 

If they hire a person with the skills but no permit they do not have to pay any tax SS or other government funds.  Also they can pay a lower rate.

 

Remember that when you get a work permit depending on your country there is a set fee that you have to be paid.

 

Canada is 50k a month if i am paid by the book.  Considering what teachers make and a lot of government schools can afford there could be a change to the philipies and other countries that are not as expensive.

[jbsears]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

 

 

Ah yes, lull them into a false sense of security, then pounce!!

 

Quite right. Pounce on those who spoil it for the rest of us,

 

 

 

@ Johnnie99

       -  do you really think that foreigners "enjoy" going on a visa run ????

  its a complete waste of time and money.

 

if the schools (in question) were more honest and not so lazy, they would apply for the teachers work permit in the correct manner and then the teacher will not need to do these annoying visa-runs every 3 months.

 

its NOT the teachers that are "spoiling" it for the rest of us!!  they would LOVE to have the correct visa!!  

  you should blame the owners of the schools that "cant be bothered to do it properly"

 

 

That's like fencing stolen goods and saying that you're not in the wrong because YOU didn't steal them... move on son.

 

 

You're not very good at logic... move on pops.

Edited July 31, 2014 by jbsears

[gbswales]

Many people in Thailand work with no work permit, I have known many over the years, they flagrantly ignore the law, they know what they are doing is illegal , yet continue to do it, then complain when the laws are enforced.

Paid or voluntary, on site or online, if you are working in any capacity for a commercial enterprise, you need a work permit if you live in Thailand.

Everybody knows it, yet so many choose to ignore the law, this is why they are tightening up, because people take the piss.

 

far too much store is placed on qualifications thesedays ignoring the fact that many people who lack the ability to complete higher education can still be good teachers at primary level.  It is the same across all professions everywhere such as nursing, where the ability to obtain a degree is valued higher than a caring and compassionate nature.  We (worldwide) should judge people by their performance and not scraps of paper from a college.

 

I dont disagree with "regularising" people working in Thailand as long as that is based on their ability to do the job rather than on paper qualifications or how much money they have.  Observe them teaching, question the kids, the parents and local teachers - then decide if they should be allowed to work in Thailand (maybe include in this the teachers who are working in Thailand legally at the moment as well - maybe some of the illegal ones are better!)

[Blindside]

I reckon we will see some raids. Will be interesting to see if the big / rich / influential schools are targeted in any form.

 

The very schools on the island that educate the children of these officers / officials.

 

I used to teach privately at the house of a powerful guy (in terms of government position) - not here, but in BKK. Oops... did not have a WP for that . I had no worries about that - if you know what I mean. 

 

I am a qualified teacher, with work permit and Non-B, but I would not really enjoy the old once-over when they come - regardless of my status.

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

“Please do not worry right now. We have yet to receive an order from the Phuket Immigration Chief to crack down on school teachers” Immigration Inspector Tianchai Chompoo said."

 

​Checks in the mail and I won't  ......... alt=whistling.gif>  alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> 

 

Yep! So you still have another week before you have to worry.

[NamKangMan]

Possible raids on schools aside, most of these teachers are under 50 years of age, therefore, they are visa runners.

 

If they are not caught working illegally in a school, they will probably be denied entry on their next visa run, due to having so many back to back tourist visas. 

 

Either way, they have some problems.

[RTH10260]

Immigration Inspector Tianchai Chompoo said:
"Please do not worry right now. We have yet to receive an order from the Phuket Immigration Chief to crack down on school teachers
 
 he said "yet"... (meaning: it could well happen SOON).
 
ALSO:
Inspector Tianchai went onto say:   "Immigration officials in Phuket currently have orders to target, register and legalise illegal migrant workers".
  really?  they want to Legalise the illegal workers?   no deportation? no jail? no ethnic camps?   they want to GIVE them a work permit?
is he saying that there is currently an AMNESTY for all illegal workers???
  that's how it reads to me.
 
 

Note the quote is "illegal MIGRANT workers". I bet tourist visa doesn't qualify as MIGRANT worker. In the eyes of a Thai official, migrant likely means neighbouring Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos folks, not (white) falangs.

[samuibruno]

these teachers with no work permits have the right to stop working if permits are not acquired for them

they are not allowed to teach without work permit so just dont go to work

if they do DECIDE to go to work without the schools having supplied a work permit then they are[personally] breaking the law themselves[not schools fault ]

dont complain you have choices 

dont blame others , take action[be pro active ] yourself 

[easybullet3]

 

 

 

Ah yes, lull them into a false sense of security, then pounce!!

 

Quite right. Pounce on those who spoil it for the rest of us,

 

 

 

@ Johnnie99

       -  do you really think that foreigners "enjoy" going on a visa run ????

  its a complete waste of time and money.

 

if the schools (in question) were more honest and not so lazy, they would apply for the teachers work permit in the correct manner and then the teacher will not need to do these annoying visa-runs every 3 months.

 

its NOT the teachers that are "spoiling" it for the rest of us!!  they would LOVE to have the correct visa!!  

  you should blame the owners of the schools that "cant be bothered to do it properly"

 

 

That's like fencing stolen goods and saying that you're not in the wrong because YOU didn't steal them... move on son.

 

 

 

@ TIFFER

 

what on earth are you talking about ??? !!!

perhaps you dont understand how it goes.

  the TEACHER wants the visa... more than anything...

its the ADMIN or OWNER of the company that is being discrete and devious...  quite often the teachers are led on" with stories and excuses....  and often they are NEW to thailand and are not as seasoned as us long-term stayers.

they are hardly being an accessory to a crime...  as they WANT the visa. 

  (as you may (or may not) know,,, visa runs are a pain in the **** !!

[kkup]

This time next year visa's will be just as lax as they always were. Wait for the dust to settle.

[connda]

The problem here is that the schools are incentivized by the government to hire illegal workers. 

 

1. There is, to my knowledge, no penalties being assessed to the schools / employment agencies for hiring illegal workers. 

2. Schools have told me that is expensive for them to file the paperwork to make someone legal and is a long drawn out process.

 

As long as the school keeps their teachers working illegally, they have no rights to sue (eg: suddenly the school doesn't need and breaks the contract).

 

So if you're a school or an employment agency and don't really care about keeping a teacher for the long term, it makes more sense financially to keep your teachers illegal. 

 

The way to fix this would be to penalize the both the teachers and schools / employment agencies for allowing teachers to work illegally. 

 

On the flip side, if a teacher entered an employment contract and the employer fails to supply the documentation for a B visa and WP, the contract is illegal and unenforceable.   Personally my recommendation to teachers who are working illegally.  Pack up and leave immediately.  Go to work in a different country, or for a reputable school.  If you in in negotiations with a school, write right on the contract, "I will not teach or enter a classroom without a B visa and WP."  If your first day of school comes around and you have given the run around, don't teach.  If they threaten you, call their bluff.  Walk.  Just make sure the contract you sign says they will supply you with the necessary documentation to obtain a B visa and that they will have your WP prior to your first day of class.  Insist on it.  If you can't get it - walk.  They risk nothing much.  You risk jail, a fine, and deportation.
They will prey on you're ignorance -- so don't be ignorant.

Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.

Edited July 31, 2014 by connda

[rrbing]

 

The problem here is that the schools are incentivized by the government to hire illegal workers. 

 

1. There is, to my knowledge, no penalties being assessed to the schools / employment agencies for hiring illegal workers. 

2. Schools have told me that is expensive for them to file the paperwork to make someone legal and is a long drawn out process.

 

As long as the school keeps their teachers working illegally, they have no rights to sue (eg: suddenly the school doesn't need and breaks the contract).

 

So if you're a school or an employment agency and don't really care about keeping a teacher for the long term, it makes more sense financially to keep your teachers illegal. 

 

The way to fix this would be to penalize the both the teachers and schools / employment agencies for allowing teachers to work illegally. 

 

On the flip side, if a teacher entered an employment contract and the employer fails to supply the documentation for a B visa and WP, the contract is illegal and unenforceable.   Personally my recommendation to teachers who are working illegally.  Pack up and leave immediately.  Go work in a different country, or for a reputable school.  If you in in negoatations with a school, write right on the contract, "I will not teach or enter a classroom without a B visa and WP."  If your first day of school comes around and you have given the run around, don't teach.  If they threaten you, call their bluff.  Walk.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it doesn't work like this. Most schools hire teachers the day they need them, then they tell the teacher that their visa is being "processed" and it can take a few months. My wife got the run around from one school and one employment agency. She ended up quitting after a couple months at the school because they never took care of her visa and the employment agency was even worse. She finally got it done at the school she is at now, but it took close to 6 months to find an honest school, and get it taken care of.

 

Under the new law an honest teacher would likely be kicked out before that time, and not for lack of trying.

 

The way to fix this is to force the schools to take care of the paperwork for their teachers (imposing penalties if they don't), or allow the teacher to do it without having to wait on the school.

 

Forcing teachers to get the work permit from the schools, all the while incentivizing the schools not to give it to them is a bad system. The system must be changed otherwise Thailand is going to lose a ton of great teachers. It's as simple as that.

Edited July 31, 2014 by rrbing

[happydude303]

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[connda]

 

 

The problem here is that the schools are incentivized by the government to hire illegal workers. 

 

1. There is, to my knowledge, no penalties being assessed to the schools / employment agencies for hiring illegal workers. 

2. Schools have told me that is expensive for them to file the paperwork to make someone legal and is a long drawn out process.

 

As long as the school keeps their teachers working illegally, they have no rights to sue (eg: suddenly the school doesn't need and breaks the contract).

 

So if you're a school or an employment agency and don't really care about keeping a teacher for the long term, it makes more sense financially to keep your teachers illegal. 

 

The way to fix this would be to penalize the both the teachers and schools / employment agencies for allowing teachers to work illegally. 

 

On the flip side, if a teacher entered an employment contract and the employer fails to supply the documentation for a B visa and WP, the contract is illegal and unenforceable.   Personally my recommendation to teachers who are working illegally.  Pack up and leave immediately.  Go work in a different country, or for a reputable school.  If you in in negoatations with a school, write right on the contract, "I will not teach or enter a classroom without a B visa and WP."  If your first day of school comes around and you have given the run around, don't teach.  If they threaten you, call their bluff.  Walk.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it doesn't work like this. Most schools hire teachers the day they need them, then they tell the teacher that their visa is being "processed" and it can take a few months. My wife got the run around from one school and one employment agency. She ended up quitting after a couple months at the school because they never took care of her visa and the employment agency was even worse. She finally got it done at the school she is at now, but it took close to 6 months to find an honest school, and get it taken care of.

 

Under the new law an honest teacher would likely be kicked out before that time, and not for lack of trying.

 

The way to fix this is to force the schools to take care of the paperwork for their teachers (imposing penalties if they don't), or allow the teacher to do it without having to wait on the school.

 

Forcing teachers to get the work permit from the schools, all the while incentivizing the schools not to give it to them is a bad system. The system must be changed otherwise Thailand is going to lose a ton of great teachers. It's as simple as that.

 

 

That is exactly what I'm saying.  Refuse to work illegally.  If you are a teacher, educate potential teachers of the risks and the -- let's call it for what it is -- illegal hiring practices and scams that run rampant in this country. 

I've turned two schools down locally after taking to them, and supplying them with all the necessary documentation to apply for a work permit.  They hummed and hawed, but wouldn't move on the WP.  I got the old, "You no need WP. Everything OK."  My reply, "No WP, no work."  They try calling my wife, but my wife had heard me say that line about a million times, and she's just reiterate that I told them I would not step foot into the school for the purposes of teaching without a valid WP.   I've got a number of years of teaching experience in the computer industry and three years teaching TESOL.  I understand the game.  I'm experienced.  Their loss, not mine.

So potential teachers - up to you.  


 

[Greg Nixon]

School administrators should receive a large fine for employing teachers without a work permit. the teachers should be assisted in getting a work permit. 

[KarenBravo]

Why teaching in Thailand? Salary far too low. I could teach English, German, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese but I prefer to work as a translator and quality controller for European companies. Far more interesting.

 

Was this post just an excuse to tell everyone that you speak six languages and that you consider yourself far above teachers in Thailand?

I suspect it was.

I hope you're not a young guy because within ten years your job is going to be made redundant by computers. You know that, right?

 

Just for you:-

 

Adepto vestri caput capitia ex vestri arse.

Edited July 31, 2014 by KarenBravo

[BKKSnowBird]

Interesting how this came out the same day many teachers get paid and might be considering doing a runner.

School started in May. I would be very worried if i dud not have a work permit by now.

[korythompson]

They should crack down and check work permits of foreign teachers. I know for a fact thst their are teachers with either no work permits or forged work permits.

 

Bear in mind, it is the school's fault that teachers have no work permits--not the teachers.  First of all, teachers can't get work permits; schools must get them for the teachers.  The school must generate about 15 pages (or so) of documents.  I know this because the school had me review and sign the documents needed to get the work permit.  So, this whole matter of teachers not having work permits falls 100% on the shoulders of the schools.  Furthermore, it costs about $325 to get the work permit--the main reason why schools don't do it.

 

So, blame the schools if you want to blame anyone.  This has been going on for so long, schools not getting proper work permits, such that its almost the norm.  Another reason schools drag their feet, is because they want to test the teacher to see if the want to keep them on, and they don't want to put out the $325 and do all the paperwork if it turns out they don't want to keep the teacher on (say after 30 or 60 days).

[BKKSnowBird]

A work permit is 3000 baht or $100.

[korythompson]

School administrators should receive a large fine for employing teachers without a work permit. the teachers should be assisted in getting a work permit. 

This is the best post on here!  Now the truth is being told.  Let's examine this.  All this talk about teachers (for example) not having work permits.  Yet it is not within the power of the teacher to get the work permit.  It is only within the school's power.  So why punish the teacher for not having said work permit.  Punish the school; that's the only way this work permit problem (with teachers) will be resolved.

[chiang mai]

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.