Teachers told not to panic about visa and work permit crackdown

[Somtamnication]

Well, immigration made a visit to the Kathu campus of Kajonkiet this week. No idea why, but they never went to visit the classrooms. 

[wolf5370]

This could all be sorted out very easily - why does the government not act as sponsor for teachers. Teachers brunt the cost of a teaching WP and then are allowed to work for any school etc that is willing to pay them. That way the labour dept and MOE can ensure the proper paperwork as to qualifications etc exists, teachers can also then teach privately at home or wherever (subject to taxes as normal). Schools would be happier as they would have access to a ready validated and free (other than wages) teaching pool, which allows for trial periods etc - and teachers would be happy as they can move around and take on extra teaching as needed to pay bills (and are not at the mercy of unscrupulous schools and agents). State is happy, all teachers are licensed, easily validated, and registered - easy annual renewal because they have the paperwork and previous validation.

 

As always here - they see a problem and do not look for a solution - they just look at a sledge hammer to batter it to death with instead. Maybe if they made it easier for good teachers to be here and compete, it would garner an environment whereby some intelligence could rise to the top and change that policy!

[antic8]

 

Many people in Thailand work with no work permit, I have known many over the years, they flagrantly ignore the law, they know what they are doing is illegal , yet continue to do it, then complain when the laws are enforced.

Paid or voluntary, on site or online, if you are working in any capacity for a commercial enterprise, you need a work permit if you live in Thailand.

Everybody knows it, yet so many choose to ignore the law, this is why they are tightening up, because people take the piss.

 

Only partly true. If a farang in Thailand - no matter if tourist or resident - works online for foreign companies, this has not to interest Thailand. And after all: How they can control this?

 

I think you will find a work permit is required even if working an online business .. it was confirmed recently on this forum.

[LivinginKata]

An inappropriate post has been removed, plus all the replies to that post.

[wolf5370]

 

 

Many people in Thailand work with no work permit, I have known many over the years, they flagrantly ignore the law, they know what they are doing is illegal , yet continue to do it, then complain when the laws are enforced.

Paid or voluntary, on site or online, if you are working in any capacity for a commercial enterprise, you need a work permit if you live in Thailand.

Everybody knows it, yet so many choose to ignore the law, this is why they are tightening up, because people take the piss.

 

Only partly true. If a farang in Thailand - no matter if tourist or resident - works online for foreign companies, this has not to interest Thailand. And after all: How they can control this?

 

I think you will find a work permit is required even if working an online business .. it was confirmed recently on this forum.

 

Yeah good luck getting a WP for working online!

[antic8]

Surely teaching is the one job we would like to see regulated with proper background checks ..!?!

 

If a work permit isn't issued then are these teachers being properly assessed for qualifications and CRB .. !?!

 

There are many wicked people over here ... I would hope they cannot easily get a job teaching school children.

 

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

 

Why teaching in Thailand? Salary far too low. I could teach English, German, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese but I prefer to work as a translator and quality controller for European companies. Far more interesting.

 

Was this post just an excuse to tell everyone that you speak six languages and that you consider yourself far above teachers in Thailand?

I suspect it was.

I hope you're not a young guy because within ten years your job is going to be made redundant by computers. You know that, right?

 

Just for you:-

 

Adepto vestri caput capitia ex vestri arse.

 

To be fair he probably is better than the average Thai English teacher,the one in my village school speaks two languages,Thai and Khmern

[gerrythepoet]

 

The problem here is that the schools are incentivized by the government to hire illegal workers. 

 

1. There is, to my knowledge, no penalties being assessed to the schools / employment agencies for hiring illegal workers. 

2. Schools have told me that is expensive for them to file the paperwork to make someone legal and is a long drawn out process.

 

As long as the school keeps their teachers working illegally, they have no rights to sue (eg: suddenly the school doesn't need and breaks the contract).

 

So if you're a school or an employment agency and don't really care about keeping a teacher for the long term, it makes more sense financially to keep your teachers illegal. 

 

The way to fix this would be to penalize the both the teachers and schools / employment agencies for allowing teachers to work illegally. 

 

On the flip side, if a teacher entered an employment contract and the employer fails to supply the documentation for a B visa and WP, the contract is illegal and unenforceable.   Personally my recommendation to teachers who are working illegally.  Pack up and leave immediately.  Go to work in a different country, or for a reputable school.  If you in in negotiations with a school, write right on the contract, "I will not teach or enter a classroom without a B visa and WP."  If your first day of school comes around and you have given the run around, don't teach.  If they threaten you, call their bluff.  Walk.  Just make sure the contract you sign says they will supply you with the necessary documentation to obtain a B visa and that they will have your WP prior to your first day of class.  Insist on it.  If you can't get it - walk.  They risk nothing much.  You risk jail, a fine, and deportation.
They will prey on you're ignorance -- so don't be ignorant.

Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.

 

 

[gerrythepoet]

Agree 100% with you connda regarding schools that offer to provide a WP.

 

My own position is that the school provides the paper work and i pay for my own WP.

 

In my opinion it is better for a teacher to search for schools that do not pay for a Non B as well as the WP.

 

Target reputable schools and do not try and be smart by being illegal one day you'll get nabbed.

[soalbundy]

Interesting how this came out the same day many teachers get paid and might be considering doing a runner.

School started in May. I would be very worried if i dud not have a work permit by now.

I dunt think you need to worry.

[majhiggins]

OK, I see all of these "Get yourself sorted." "Get yourself legal." posts every time that an issue like this comes up. I have had the same work permit for the last 6 years and I keep up to date. But can ANYBODY tell me exactly what the hell a work permit is for???? Sure, you have to be in the country legally, I get that. Could be for vacation, marriage, working, or retiring here and it seems OK for the country to do that through the visa process. But does a work permit perform any function whatsoever other than to funnel money into the Ministry of Labor and create a recurring paperwork hassle? You want to teach in Thailand. The school wants you to teach there. They give you a contract. You show the contract to immigration and they give you a work visa. Done and done! Why the work permit? Is the ministry of labor limiting the number of foreign teachers in Thailand. No! Are they checking on workplace safety and ensuring that all employment laws are followed by the schools? No! Are they checking backgrounds of teachers to make certain that they are not wanted criminals, and (really that would be the function of immigration, not labor)? No! The only reason why work permits should exist is to verify that the work being performed is legitimate, does not violate restrictions on certain fields that can only be filled by nationals and conducted within the legal framework of Thai employment law. As far as a value added function, the work permit requirement is about as rational as placing a requirement that all foreign teachers wear one white and one black sock whenever at school.

[jacko45k]

Ah yes, lull them into a false sense of security, then pounce!!

 

It is reasuring that the police are waiting to be told to do their job!
 

[Franky Bear]

 

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.

 

Exactly. When i see the state of some of the teachers that drink in Rayong it makes me cringe, The cunts can't string a sentence together. Most last a few months and move on which infuriates me. 

[kaorop]

Predictable, the usual ill/uninformed higher than thou posters chime in with:

 

"Get a WP if you want to be legal" or words to that effect

 

and

 

"A degree in knitting makes you a capable and qualified teacher"

 

Ho hum they must lead such boring lives as to make comments on things they know so little about.

 

Doesn't "infuriate" me, does make me laugh.

[majhiggins]

 

 

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.

 

Exactly. When i see the state of some of the teachers that drink in Rayong it makes me cringe, The <deleted> can't string a sentence together. Most last a few months and move on which infuriates me. 

 

But who is evaluating this "degree"? Some low level Thai paper pusher who hasn't got a clue what they're looking at. And, how about all of the utterly useless "English" degrees held by Thai teachers who can't even hold a simple conversation with a native speaker and know it and therefore hide when they see a farang teacher coming. Non-native speakers, Filipinos, Indians ect. are required to score at least a 700 on a TOEIC test to teach English. How about putting the same requirement on Thais who want to teach English?

 

[Franky Bear]

 

 

 

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.

 

Exactly. When i see the state of some of the teachers that drink in Rayong it makes me cringe, The <deleted> can't string a sentence together. Most last a few months and move on which infuriates me. 

 

But who is evaluating this "degree"? Some low level Thai paper pusher who hasn't got a clue what they're looking at. And, how about all of the utterly useless "English" degrees held by Thai teachers who can't even hold a simple conversation with a native speaker and know it and therefore hide when they see a farang teacher coming. Non-native speakers, Filipinos, Indians ect. are required to score at least a 700 on a TOEIC test to teach English. How about putting the same requirement on Thais who want to teach English?

 

 

Good idea. First though. Kick out these so called teachers that are not in any way or form a teacher.

[brewsterbudgen]

 

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 
There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.

Exactly. When i see the state of some of the teachers that drink in Rayong it makes me cringe, The <deleted> can't string a sentence together. Most last a few months and move on which infuriates me.

 
How do you know they don't have a degree? You must have led a very sheltered life if you think university graduates don't drink!

[Franky Bear]

 

 

 

Say old same old .........If they were to drop this stupid rule of having a degree , which could be in curtain making or any other useless subject then I'm sure most people would get a work permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 
There's a reason for requiring a degree, it's so as to ensure the teachers they employ are capable and qualified rather than wannabe's.

 

Exactly. When i see the state of some of the teachers that drink in Rayong it makes me cringe, The <deleted> can't string a sentence together. Most last a few months and move on which infuriates me.

 

 
How do you know they don't have a degree? You must have led a very sheltered life if you think university graduates don't drink!

 

I ask them. And what has drinking got to do with the price of cheese?

Edited August 1, 2014 by Franky Bear

[brewsterbudgen]

How do you know they don't have a degree? You must have led a very sheltered life if you think university graduates don't drink!

I ask them. And what has drinking got to do with the price of cheese?

I assumed you were implying that the reason they couldn't string a sentence together was linked to their "drinking in Rayong". You have a point though. Just because someone has a degree doesn't mean they are necessarily coherent, drunk or not!

[PattayaPhom]

The sooner all the illegal treachers are caught and arrested the sooner law abiding teachers salaries will increase

[Franky Bear]

The sooner all the illegal treachers are caught and arrested the sooner law abiding teachers salaries will increase

yes. When you get ppl that are prepared to work for an awful wage like 30,000 a month, for a trade that should be of the highest caliber then you dilute the system. This has allowed these people to come to Thailand and stay.

There's two trades that i consider you must have a real passion for to do.

1. a Chef. You must absolutely love cooking to take that up as a trade.

 

2. A teacher. You must be passionate about educating people.

How many of these low end farang teachers actually love the job they do? (i know every single one that replies to this will say they do) Most i kjow do it to stay in Thailand. This loop hole must be closed for the sake of our childrens education

 

[KarenBravo]

The sooner all the illegal treachers are caught and arrested the sooner law abiding teachers salaries will increase

 

That won't happen. The Thai teachers will object.

Also, don't forget, the laws of supply and demand don't work here in Thailand.

[lust]

Why so much hate towards teachers? Do your children go to these schools? Are they taking jobs from Thai's? I bet most teachers that are not paying taxes would gladly pay 2 or 3 times the taxes to be here legally.

 

Why not focus on the real problems with Thailand? Like people being slaves on fishing boats, the large amounts of prostitution, the buying and selling of dogs for food, the thousands of rice sacks that have been refilled with dust, the poachers killing elephants and other animals, the insurgency down south where monks, teachers, and police are constantly killed, the trash on the streets and beaches, the government situation, the blah blah blah. These are the REAL problems, and only a few of them...

[Franky Bear]

Why so much hate towards teachers? Do your children go to these schools? Are they taking jobs from Thai's? I bet most teachers that are not paying taxes would gladly pay 2 or 3 times the taxes to be here legally.

 

Why not focus on the real problems with Thailand? Like people being slaves on fishing boats, the large amounts of prostitution, the buying and selling of dogs for food, the thousands of rice sacks that have been refilled with dust, the poachers killing elephants and other animals, the insurgency down south where monks, teachers, and police are constantly killed, the trash on the streets and beaches, the government situation, the blah blah blah. These are the REAL problems, and only a few of them...

Start a thread on it then. This thread is about teachers

[yanyk]

work permits are  3000 baht with the correct documents for a first time applicant. is that too expensive??? the main problems lie in the documentation.

and some people are plain lazy to go through the procedure of obtaining one. i told a certain teacher the procedures, before i said Jack Robinson he was already walking away in frustration 

[majhiggins]

When I first started teaching, in 2006, between base pay, living allowance, and after-hours classes a couple days a week, my pay was 32,000 a month. Plus if I taught summer school during the breaks, I could get almost double-pay. Now, 8-years later, 32k is still considered perfectly fine for a teacher. Thai teachers get a raise every 6 months in gvt. schools but those of us who still teach, may well be making exactly the same today as they did 8 years ago. OTOH, the price of literally everything has steadily increased so that 30k today is like 20k 8 years ago. Lo and behold, what has also happened over the last 8 years? The quality of teachers has steadily decreased. Pay for a qualified (and by qualified I don't mean an education degree from a western school, just a BA/BS plus at-least a TEFL/TESOL or preferably a CELTA) teacher with a few years experience should be around 50k now, but almost nobody makes that. The conclusion I have come to is that Thailand has absolutely no interest in actually teaching the kids English. That could lead to reading western books, which could lead to western ideas and really upset the whole apple cart in the land of smiles. No, what the education system wants is for parents to see somebody with white skin standing in front of their kid occasionally as a justification for why the school is constantly hitting the parents up for more money. We are not teachers, we are scenery. Props in a set for a fictional story being told to the nation. Teacher qualification and ability are really no more important than gun safety training is for somebody holding a water pistol. The difference in effectiveness between the best foreign teacher and the worst foreign teacher in the regular program in the schools is negligible. We have been set on a fools errand and told to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring! No matter how deftly, passionately and seriously you wield that herring, it is a task that cannot be done. Nor does the school system really want it to be done.

Edited August 1, 2014 by majhiggins

[Strangebrew]

Simple open bar in neighboring country go once a month collect your cash and live.

[PattayaPhom]

Why so much hate towards teachers? Do your children go to these schools? Are they taking jobs from Thai's? I bet most teachers that are not paying taxes would gladly pay 2 or 3 times the taxes to be here legally.

 

Why not focus on the real problems with Thailand? Like people being slaves on fishing boats, the large amounts of prostitution, the buying and selling of dogs for food, the thousands of rice sacks that have been refilled with dust, the poachers killing elephants and other animals, the insurgency down south where monks, teachers, and police are constantly killed, the trash on the streets and beaches, the government situation, the blah blah blah. These are the REAL problems, and only a few of them..

No hate against genuine teachers whatsoever, just those that are exploiting the system for their own gains with detrmental effects to real teachers.

[kaorop]

 

Why so much hate towards teachers? Do your children go to these schools? Are they taking jobs from Thai's? I bet most teachers that are not paying taxes would gladly pay 2 or 3 times the taxes to be here legally.

 

Why not focus on the real problems with Thailand? Like people being slaves on fishing boats, the large amounts of prostitution, the buying and selling of dogs for food, the thousands of rice sacks that have been refilled with dust, the poachers killing elephants and other animals, the insurgency down south where monks, teachers, and police are constantly killed, the trash on the streets and beaches, the government situation, the blah blah blah. These are the REAL problems, and only a few of them..

No hate against genuine teachers whatsoever, just those that are exploiting the system for their own gains with detrmental effects to real teachers.

 

 

If you would be so kind as to tell us how Thailand will attract a "real" teachers to teach in an upcountry middle of nowhere school, all for the princely sum of 30k?

 

When you can tell us how, I will respect your opinion, till then I believe you know nothing of the issues and ARE just full of bitterness and hate as lust already mentioned.

[Franky Bear]

 

 

Why so much hate towards teachers? Do your children go to these schools? Are they taking jobs from Thai's? I bet most teachers that are not paying taxes would gladly pay 2 or 3 times the taxes to be here legally.

 

Why not focus on the real problems with Thailand? Like people being slaves on fishing boats, the large amounts of prostitution, the buying and selling of dogs for food, the thousands of rice sacks that have been refilled with dust, the poachers killing elephants and other animals, the insurgency down south where monks, teachers, and police are constantly killed, the trash on the streets and beaches, the government situation, the blah blah blah. These are the REAL problems, and only a few of them..

No hate against genuine teachers whatsoever, just those that are exploiting the system for their own gains with detrmental effects to real teachers.

 

 

If you would be so kind as to tell us how Thailand will attract a "real" teachers to teach in an upcountry middle of nowhere school, all for the princely sum of 30k?

 

When you can tell us how, I will respect your opinion, till then I believe you know nothing of the issues and ARE just full of bitterness and hate as lust already mentioned.

 

By getting rid of the fakes, and increasing wages