Who are real insurgent leaders, Prayuth asks

[Lite Beer]

Who are real insurgent leaders, Prayuth asks
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- In his weekly TV address last night, junta chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha said the authorities had to be better prepared and needed to work on finding out who the actual leaders of the insurgents are.

"We are holding negotiations with main groups, but other minor groups still continue using force. The groups we have negotiated with are trying to pressure us and want to achieve the outcomes that they desire.

"We have to attempt to hold joint negotiations with all groups covering all dimensions - development, ceasefire, laws and issues concerning injustice by setting up several committees to expedite negotiations.

"Currently, politics takes priority over military action to create an understanding."

This was the first time Prayuth had spoken about the situation in the South at any length.

Betong police chief transferred

Meanwhile, the police chief of Betong in Yala has been transferred to make way for an internal investigation after last week's devastating car-bomb, provincial police chief Pol Maj-General Songkiat Wathakul said yesterday.

Pol Colonel Wasan Phuangnoi will be replaced by the chief of Krong Penang police station, he said, adding that the transfer order would go into effect from tomorrow. Songkiat said the investigators would see whether Wasan was at fault, if it was a human error, or the system needed to be improved.

Civilian authorities in Betong are also reviewing the security measures that are jointly handled by police and military, Songkiat said.

Meanwhile, the secretary-general of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) General Udomdej Sitabutr said yesterday that the number of violent incidents by insurgents during Ramadan this year was a lot lower than in the same period last year. Ramadan 2013 saw 107 incidents, while this year there were 30. However, he said there were nine more deaths this year though the number of injured had dropped by 50 per cent.

The general spoke at a key meeting of senior officials attached to a centre set up to deal with violence in the area. He said General Prayuth was very concerned about the situation and wished to see progress in lawsuits related to insurgent violence.

Prayuth has also ordered tighter security in large cities to deal with the insurgents' objective of instilling fear in urban areas, as well as a renewed focus on small-operation tactics and a balance between offensive and defensive efforts, he said.

Udomdej, meanwhile, declined to respond when asked about a leader of the insurgent movement Barisan Revolusi Nasional arranging a meeting in Malaysia to plan new terror attacks in the South.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Who-are-real-insurgent-leaders-Prayuth-asks-30240052.html

 

 

[ezzra]

It's sad to realize that even the big general doesn't know his enemies by asking who's

the  real head terrorist here, that only shows that the Thailand was/is under estimating the

severity of the problems and are willing to sacrifice 5,000 more innocents lives hoping that

the problem will solve it's selves..

 

Dear general, offer 30 million, not 3 million like now, bounty on the heads of the terrorist,

plant some collaborators and informants, ask your army's intelligent people to put down

their som tam and khao niew plates for a bit and soon you'll have your answers...

[Boxclever]

You watch, he'll blame the Thaksin regime shortly...

[clockman]

Just wait till the Saudi, get involved. Revenge for no closure. On shooting diplomats. They have the means and will. To cause big problems

[chainarong]

I don't know about blaming the Sinawatra's but Thaskin didn't help whilst in charge of the ship Boxclever and if you notice, things got worse from he's brain dead response to several problems, however  the terrorists don't do mainstream, the main group is unknown, they work from the shadows and in most cases these organisations are motivated from outside, the good general will never really know who runs what, now they know what they are up against. 

[ginjag]

You watch, he'll blame the Thaksin regime shortly...

 

Well over the last 10 years they were around were they not??

[AGareth2]

obviously wear helmets

[smutcakes]

Surely the head of the army should know this already. I know he is busy playing politics, but if he had not noticed people are being blown up everyday. Maybe they should send all these Generals, Admirals, Air Marshalls etc down south do what what they are paid to do.

[rickirs]

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I don't know about blaming the Sinawatra's but Thaskin didn't help whilst in charge of the ship Boxclever and if you notice, things got worse from he's brain dead response to several problems, however  the terrorists don't do mainstream, the main group is unknown, they work from the shadows and in most cases these organisations are motivated from outside, the good general will never really know who runs what, now they know what they are up against. 

 

Thaksin was actually on the same page with the military on a policy of containment of the insurgents rather than negotiations. He was as committed as the military to preserving the integrity of the nation's sovereignty as was the military without any concessions. So you are right Thaksin didn't help but for a different reason.

 

Yingluck's regime took a different tack by attempting negotiations rather than an active military campaign. In the short term she achieved substantial drop in insurgent activities but couldn't (perhaps distractions by the Democrat's devisiveness) develop a substantive agenda for dialog and the insurgents lost interest in negotiations.

[rickirs]

"General Prayuth .... wished to see progress in lawsuits related to insurgent violence."

 

??????????

 

Sir, we have set our attorneys onto the insurgents and struck fear into their hearts.

Why are lawyers like nuclear weapons? When they land, they prevent anything from functioning for the next hundred years. - Jokes4us

 

 

 

[AleG]

The way to stop the violence is to work with the people in the South to turn the terrorists into pariahs among their own people, once they have no support, people to finance and protect them they will wither away (preferably in a short and terminal fashion).

Just cracking down and keeping the place in a state of war and overbearing control will only keep things simmering indefinetely.

 

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I don't know about blaming the Sinawatra's but Thaskin didn't help whilst in charge of the ship Boxclever and if you notice, things got worse from he's brain dead response to several problems, however  the terrorists don't do mainstream, the main group is unknown, they work from the shadows and in most cases these organisations are motivated from outside, the good general will never really know who runs what, now they know what they are up against. 

 

Thaksin was actually on the same page with the military on a policy of containment of the insurgents rather than negotiations. He was as committed as the military to preserving the integrity of the nation's sovereignty as was the military without any concessions. So you are right Thaksin didn't help but for a different reason.

 

Yingluck's regime took a different tack by attempting negotiations rather than an active military campaign. In the short term she achieved substantial drop in insurgent activities but couldn't (perhaps distractions by the Democrat's devisiveness) develop a substantive agenda for dialog and the insurgents lost interest in negotiations.

 

You either don't know anything about how this violence in the South was kicked into high gear and just make up stuff to fit an agenda... or you know what the context of the situation is and choose to make things up to fit an agenda.

 

Thaksin's handling of the South was exactly the opposite of what you say, he removed the institutions put in place by the army and previous governments to replace them with his police chums in a bid to extend his political control in the South, it failed miserably on that and in maintaining peace.
You may read Duncan McCargo's paper on Thaksin and the resurgence of violence in the Thai South, or other of his reports if you want to become informed. To pull just one quote showing how wrong you are:
 

 

Lt-Gen Songkitti’s (Thaksin's handpicked, close associete sent to the South) theory convinced Mr Thaksin,who mocked the southern attackers as nothing more than “common bandits.” He subsequently ordered the paramilitary ranger divisions  41 and 43 and the marine corps out of the trouble spots in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat provinces, and back to their barracks and based in Nakhon Si Thammarat, well away from the violence. There was growing disgruntlement from the military…. The military could do nothing to stop the pullout, of course. Officers rationalised that Mr Thaksin, a former police lieutenant colonel, would naturally
 rather listen to fellow police than the military

 

 

Doesn't look like Thaksin and the Army were on the same page, does it?

[Si Thea01]

You watch, he'll blame the Thaksin regime shortly...

Are you being facetious or just showing your true colours. Maybe you should change your name as what you have stated is not very clever.  Seeing this is occurring in the south why not include Suthep as well.  Ah but wait, he's the wrong colour isn't he.  Read up on your history and maybe you will come up with something intelligent to say.

[craigt3365]

An inappropriate post has been removed from view. 

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[SPALAX]

I like this question by General Prayuth. Nothing to do with poilitics.

 

Well, farangs tend to think that they know everything, particularly farangs living in Thailand. You know, they know more about Thailand than the Thais. (They even don't have to write and read the language and like to  walk inside demonstration sites eventually welcomed with smiles and they can't read "farang go home")

 

In Syria more than 160 000 victims of the civil war. This is of course due to the devil Mr. Assad. Opposition is just cutting  gently some throats sometimes (honest mistakes probably),  So we' help oppositions.

 

In Irak (another country, according to western standards), we are fighting djiadhists and consequently helping the government. These nice fellows are cousins/allies of the opposition to Assad.

 

Boko Haram are not muslims or djihadists, just terrorists exchanging young girls against cows, which is not politically correct.

 

Of course you will never hear of the Sykes/Picot treaty (Sykes was a Brit, Picot was a Frenchie) which created these non existing countries  such as Irak and Syria aso in 1916. The US doesn't like to study history, geography and civilization. Twitter and Facebook are enough. And the EU (fuck the EU, as the yankees say)  28 members, cannot decide the same thing. So the big guys follow the US, most of the time, just in case.

 

It's just an example and  another example of the marvellous western logic to which I don't understand anything because I probably became too Thai minded.

 

Glad to learn from a distinguished member of TV.com that Mr. T did worsen the situation in the South. After all Mr.T seems to be the Satan here.

 

So, congratulations, with all respect due to Him to General Prayuth, for being humble and wanting to know more in order to try once again to solve this big problem.

 

I sincerely hope that he will be successfull.

[Lite Beer]

Prayuth: Southern talks need more players
 

BANGKOK: The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) has held peace talks with southern insurgent groups, both openly and behind closed doors, according to Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha.

 

"We must identify the people who will join the talks and they must be true leaders of the movement," the army chief said in his weekly televised address on Friday night (August 1).

Leaders of all separatist groups must take part in the talks, not just a leader from one big group, because the small groups also have an impact in the area, he said. Some splinter groups might even try to intensify the conflict so that they would be pulled into the negotiations, he added.

Efforts by the previous government to find a solution to the decade-long insurgency focused on Malaysian-brokered talks with the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) separatist movement.

Those talks were put on hold during the political unrest that began late last year, but a BRN spokesman said this week that "we are ready when Bangkok is ready" to resume negotiations.

Gen Prayuth said the NCPO was also figuring out better ways to deal with the unrest in the deep South. Officials want to get different sides to meet and discuss all dimensions - from development and legal issues to unfair treatment.

He said insurgents cited identity, religion, injustice and history as factors at the root of the violence. But they must accept that violence cannot go unanswered.

When arms are used, law must be enforced and clashes and losses of life are unavoidable, said Gen Prayuth. As the situation escalated, the number of security forces in the area was no longer enough so more troops must be used.

"It doesn't make sense to say that if we call back the troops, the fighting will stop," he said. "I don't think it's proper thinking because this is what other countries do all over the world.

"More soldiers were deployed because existing security forces could no longer handle the situation. Why? Because the affected area covers 30 to 37 districts or 2,000 villages. ... It's not that soldiers want more allowances.

"I don't think anyone wants to go [to the South] but as soldiers they must do what they're told. They need to make everywhere safe for the 2 million people there. We just can't skip some areas because insurgents will quickly take advantage of loopholes

"To do so, we need to deploy tens of thousands of troops to protect everyone."

Criticism of the military's approach to the South, he added, should be more constructive and practical.

"There's a limit to what we can do," he said. "Too much use of an iron fist will affect people's lives. Don't ask us to do things we can't do."

Gen Prayuth urges the public to remain calm: "If you're in a hurry, I'll be in a hurry and I think that would be dangerous because certain things need more time to be solved."

Gen Prayuth also used his address to reiterate the NCPO's tough stand against those who commit lese majeste.

"I won't let any person use the royal institution to destroy each other," he said. "Foreigners don't understand our royal institution and I ask all Thais to explain this to them."

As well, he defended the authority of the provisional government in response to criticism that the interim constitution gives the NCPO and its leader carte blanche to override any legislative decisions if they see fit.

"During the first phase, the provisional government will take considerable time and execute more laws to pave the way for national reform and prepare electoral regulations to bring about a complete democracy," he said.

"In the second phase, we'll pass on our work to the next government that comes from elections. I'm telling everyone repeatedly that they can stay calm because if you're in a hurry, I'll be in a hurry and I think that would be dangerous because certain things need more time to be solved."

Gen Prayuth also used his weekly address to stress the need for clearer agricultural policies and cooperation from farmers to solve repeated annual problems of plummeting farm prices.

He said never-ending price problems with crops such as rice, rubber, palm, sugarcane and tapioca reflected the fact that there was no clear policy or that policies had not been carried out according to plan.

Therefore, he said, it was necessary to have a clear roadmap for the short and long term to solve these repeated problems. But success would only occur when farmers cooperated with the government.

"If we do not have zoning, there will be oversupply. Systematic solutions to such problems require cooperation from all farmers," he said.

He also urged everyone in the system to leverage profits for the greater good. For example, fertiliser producers could help farmers reduce their cost of production, while the government could look at controlling rubber plantation areas.

Overplanting of rubber trees during a boom a decade ago has led to a severe oversupply and falling prices today as those threes have now matured.

Gen Prayuth said that Somkid Jatusripitak, an NCPO adviser, recently visited China and discussed ways that China could provide more markets for Thai farm products such as rice, rubber and fruits. More discussion would be needed in the future, he added.

 

[pn]2014-08-02[/pn]

[balford]

Despite all the denigratory comments here and in reading between the lines I'd suggest the General and his Intell units already know who is running the insurgency down south.

 

The military demonstrated their capacity in having very good intell on various people and situations when they kicked the police into gear to find the weapons and munitions, to arrest people they curiously 'couldn't' beforehand and generally showed just how much they knew well in advance of the announcement of Martial Law. And thanks to that intell the police are actually now doing their job...sort of.

 

It seems obvious that the insurgency is being run and supported from outside Thailand with these thugs coming in from the south and east, along with weapons, munitions, explosives, training, expertise and financial backing - the prospect of political involvement by both Thais and outsiders can't be discounted either.

 

So, to quite deliberately slag off and openly denigrate those attempting to control, isolate and eradicate these thugs without any real attempt to analyse the situation is what I'm learning to expect on this forum - bored, computer bound 'experts' who have taken up residence in a place of their choice but all to ready to criticise anything that doesn't come up to their obvious high standards as 'superior' farang from superior so-called democracies... What a bunch of losers those of you who fit this description are. End of rant.

 

Bob A. P....d off in Lampang

 

 

[Travelman868]

When will we accept that you cannot negotiate with these people.    If you give them everything they ask for, tomorrow they will want more.

 

Muslims think they are on this planet to either convert of kill.

[ginjag]

When will we accept that you cannot negotiate with these people.    If you give them everything they ask for, tomorrow they will want more.

 

Muslims think they are on this planet to either convert of kill.

 

Can I try to correct that---Islamic extremists  Think  Bla Bla Bla  ok.??  I agree with what you say though.

[espinoza]

Why not give everybody supporting this muslims the free ticket to stay there where they are, and tell everybody not supporting this unmerciful religion to move north of this provinces in 14 days. Give them their freedom on their own premises. No support from Thailand, no support from other than themselves. Just wait a few months and see.

[Chang_paarp]

Why not give everybody supporting this muslims the free ticket to stay there where they are, and tell everybody not supporting this unmerciful religion to move north of this provinces in 14 days. Give them their freedom on their own premises. No support from Thailand, no support from other than themselves. Just wait a few months and see.

 

Been tried before. lookup partition in India.

[tonbridgebrit]

How about, just fence off the bit of Thailand that the Muslims live in, and tell them that they can join Malaysia if they feel like it. Or they could become a small independent nation on their own.

A load of women with headgear and men with beards doesn't actually fit in with the image of Pattaya and Phuket, an image that Thailand is trying to,promote to the Chinese tourists. Actually, tourists from Europe don't actually regard women with headgear and men with beards as being connected with Thailand.

Partition in India didn't work because the new Pakistan was a big nation. But partition in Thailand means only a tiny bit of Thailand is going to leave Thailand. Is anybody (Thais and foreigners) going to be that annoyed or effected(affected) with such a tiny bit of Thailand going away ? How many of us have actually got a Thai girlfriend that is from those Muslims areas ?

[englishoak]

The souths only had stong military presence trying to stem this problem for what ? ooo at least 20 years or so .... Intelligence gathering isnt important in Thailand apparently then ... 

Edited August 2, 2014 by englishoak

[rajyindee]

How about, just fence off the bit of Thailand that the Muslims live in ...

 

That won't leave much room for everybody else. 

[rametindallas]

Surely the head of the army should know this already. I know he is busy playing politics, but if he had not noticed people are being blown up everyday. Maybe they should send all these Generals, Admirals, Air Marshalls etc down south do what what they are paid to do.

Armies are paid to mass slaughter. An army is not a delicate instrument. The police are the ones who do pains-taking investigations, build cases, prosecute only the guilty (in an ideal world). The problem is the army should not even be involved; they are just too heavy-handed and alienate the local populace with their indiscriminate enforcement tactics. The police need to develop an anti-terrorist special branch. They could get training and funding from any number of foreign countries.

[rametindallas]

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I don't know about blaming the Sinawatra's but Thaskin didn't help whilst in charge of the ship Boxclever and if you notice, things got worse from he's brain dead response to several problems, however  the terrorists don't do mainstream, the main group is unknown, they work from the shadows and in most cases these organisations are motivated from outside, the good general will never really know who runs what, now they know what they are up against. 

 

Thaksin was actually on the same page with the military on a policy of containment of the insurgents rather than negotiations. He was as committed as the military to preserving the integrity of the nation's sovereignty as was the military without any concessions. So you are right Thaksin didn't help but for a different reason.

 

Yingluck's regime took a different tack by attempting negotiations rather than an active military campaign. In the short term she achieved substantial drop in insurgent activities but couldn't (perhaps distractions by the Democrat's devisiveness) develop a substantive agenda for dialog and the insurgents lost interest in negotiations.

'...when he became Prime Minister in 1980, Prem used it in the south. The Thai government set out to convince southerners that they had a real stake in being part of Thailand. Significant power was devolved to local authorities, involving the police, the military, and community leaders. Money was pumped into the development of these impoverished and neglected provinces. The Thai government emphasized that it recognized and respected Islam. Religious private schools began to flourish. Military operations against the insurgents continued, but in a selective manner, and the rebels were offered an amnesty if they lay down their weapons.

This strategy proved successful, and by the 1990s there were probably only a few dozen active insurgents in the region. Even this may give an exaggerated impression of the extent of the insurgency. The leaders of the secessionist groups had not surrendered, but they had been driven into exile. Their nominal followers devoted much of their energy to smuggling, extortion, drug trafficking and other criminal activities, often in collusion with the Thai police. The deep south remained a lawless zone where, as a veteran Thai journalist wrote: “bandits, good and rogue police officers, good and rogue soldiers, corrupt officials and remnants of Muslim separatist groups have long associated with, robbed, and occasionally killed each other.”

The managerial style of Thaksin’s CEO-state was poorly suited to handling such a delicate situation. His centralist, authoritarian approach, and his use of patronage to undermine political rivals, resulted in a heavy-handed approach which quickly undid much of the political integration that had taken place over the previous two decades. Thaksin does not seem to have been especially anti-Muslim, but they were not the pliant human resources that he expected. If they had been employees of a company, he would doubtless have dismissed them; but they were citizens of a country, and he could not do this. However the dismissive way in which he treated them antagonized much of the population and created situation where Islamist ideologues were able to recruit militants for a jihad against the Thai state. This was compounded by the indifference to human rights which Thaksin had revealed in his war against drugs, and by his aggressive use of patronage for political advantage.'

http://nautilus.org/apsnet/0634a-rowley-html/#axzz39HCyPR7O

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by rametindallas

[squarethecircle]

" Thaksin does not seem to have been especially anti-Muslim, but they were not the pliant human resources that he expected. If they had been employees of a company, he would doubtless have dismissed them; but they were citizens of a country, and he could not do this. However the dismissive way in which he treated them antagonized much of the population and created situation where Islamist ideologues were able to recruit militants for a jihad against the Thai state. This was compounded by the indifference to human rights which Thaksin had revealed in his war against drugs, and by his aggressive use of patronage for political advantage.'"

Isn't this just blaming the victim, though? There are plenty of countries with antagonized minority populations, but most manage to fight for their rights without launching a murderous terrorist campaign like in the south.