Coming to the end of the visa run - local language schools may suffer most

[Hans Donnerborg]

 the crack down will have some downside effects.

1. teachers that are native eng speakers  but at lowsy in teaching will have an easier job.
2. salery will go up ruining smaller schools

3. young ppl will aviod Thailand turning it into  ol farts sex paradise

 

 im an ol fart married to a grandmother.

[bertty]

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Ok so lets all abide by the rules of the land. So for instance lets say a kid in a fast car ,hmmm how about a Ferrari, run over a policeman and kills him.

What will be the outcome.

You see it's just about money and that's all it will every be about. If you can afford to pay to stay then theres no problem, right or wrong visa.

 

 

What would happen if the driver was a rich foreigner?

 

Probably cost him/her a bit more.

[Horton Jones]

Here is my op/ed piece on this subject: This current "Visa Crisis", or crackdown is a perfect opportunity for Thailand to improve the teaching of ENGLISH in the country. And we all know this needs A LOT of improvement, correct?  The "win-win" situation I can see in all the upheaval here is to actually make it easier for foreigners to obtain a Visa... as long as they register and can prove that they are active in teaching English at a language school, tutoring program, or normal school. I am aghast, shocked that some people are suggesting tightening the standards for teachers at such a time as this when test scores are abysmally low. What are you thinking?? Need to professionalize the work force more? No, no, no. Look up the word "crisis"! What Thailand needs is ANY warm bodies that are excellent (prefer native) speakers of English who can take a one-month certificate course and spread throughout the land far-and-wide, and start a turbo-charged process of upping the English language proficiencies of Thai's! As I said last week in a post here: If the lips can move, they're a native -- or excellent -- speaker of English, and they can pass a BACKGROUND check.... hire them immediately, GRANT THE VISA, fill out the work permit, etc. I'm nor sure there is a Thai word for this, but EXPEDITE, man! I suggest the Thai's adopt this attitude:  "You want to stay in our country Farang? Okay, here is your Visa, no problem... now prove you are teaching English at least part-time and we'll be HAPPY (the land of Happiness remember!) to have you stay.  There really should be a special "Education" visa, and it should be streamlined for a while. Forget this "Non-Immigrant Business Visa",,, make teaching English as easy as studying Thai at a language school! Truly, which one is of more value to the Thai people? And the fact that it helps Farangs who love this country and want to live here is a very nice bonus.

[puukao]

I helped someone learn English while I waiting for coffee, remembered I don't have proper work permit while volunteering, and fined myself 1900 baht.  

 

#1  crackdown and hopefully ban people for years.  discourage others to visit, let them exploit other countries

#2  start over while people who gamed the system previously cannot return

#3  get people who actually have teaching licenses, not merely a certificate.  

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

 

“I know they are trying to crack down on people working here illegally, but why would Western people work here illegally? The average wage in Australia is around A$25-30 (750-900 baht) per hour,’’ he said,

 

 

I know a good few EFL teachers that don't have degrees or WP's that earn more than that teaching privately.

 

 

Well, foreigners from Britain/USA work here ( mainly teaching English), yes, you can get more money back home in England, but things are also more expensive back home. So, it might make sense to earn a lower wage here, and get a far cheaper cost of living.

And very important this, people can teach English in Japan, Korea and Taiwan, and get more money, but it's not that easy getting a girlfriend in THOSE countries. Here in Thailand, if you're teaching in Thailand (or indeed, you just live here), you can easily get yourself a local girlfriend. If you're 55 years old, you want a bird who is 24, you can do it. Try doing that in Korea or Hong Kong. Try doing that back home in England or in Australia.

And also, if you work in Bangkok, you can go to Nana and Soi Cowboy when you feel like it. Supposedly, there are similar bars in Tokyo, but they're very expensive, your higher wages in Tokyo are not as high as the prices for topless bars in Tokyo. And as for those Tokyo bars where you sing a few karoke songs, and take the lady back to your home for the night, well, they're very expensive.

Yes, the above are some of the reasons as to why it doesn't make sense to teach English in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc, but it does make sense to teach or work in Thailand. And a lot of people simply don't want to live and work in London (live in London), they'd much rather live in Bangkok or whatever Thai city/town. 

[Kru Baa]

“Eventually the English-teaching industry will be professionalised as foreign teachers will have to enrol in a one-month training course, obtain a certificate and be better qualified as a teacher,” he said. “We can work with recruitment agencies that can screen the teachers for us. There might be some difference in terms of fees, but we are willing to put in a lot more work to find suitable teachers.”

A staff member at a private language school where Jon used to work said: “The process will not affect foreigners who really intend to teach. They will have to accept the new procedure if they really want to be a teacher.

 

Oh here we go again with another course. How much is this one going to cost?  And will it actually have anything to do with teaching this time? It would be nice if it did.

[inutil]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm... not to remind you, but as a teacher, youre supposed to take that whole "be a strong moral example to your students" at least a little seriously. A little discretion perhaps? 

 

Which brings me to another point... ive always had nothing but sympathy for people like wilcopops. The dude takes his teaching seriously. He wants to teach (i assume wico is a 'he'), but doesnt have the degree. Its evident that this sudden tightening is unfair, and people like him should be grandfathered in. Once you have your TEFL AND x-years of classroom experience, youre going to be a skilled teacher. The degree becomes irrelevant. Two years classroom experience in Thailand should be ample time to prove your skills and commitment. I believe this is a fair compromise. 

 

But the tone of the piece above makes me shudder. What is being said on the surface clearly contrasts with the message. And that message is "drop the bar, lets use teaching as a means to stay in Thailand!" It's completely wrong headed. Your duty of concern should be 100% to those kids. I genuinely worry that if the visa requirements are dropped it WILL become the next ed-visa. Schools need teachers, this is undeniable. And with the visa clampdowns elsewhere, a non-immi B is obviously going to look attractive to those wishing for a long stay in Thailand.

 

Schools that spent money in sorting this out for you will suddenly find their formerly charming, diligent, polite teacher now requesting three weeks off here, or phoning in 'sick' or suddenly mysteriously incapable of turning up to work. This will hurt not only the students of that school, but also the reputation and long standing future of native English teachers in Government schools. I can only see bad things from this because people who have no interest in teaching and only want the visa to sustain their lives in Thailand will be sorely tempted to exploit these schools for their own personal and selfish ends. 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by inutil

[casualbiker]

“Eventually the English-teaching industry will be professionalised as foreign teachers will have to enrol in a one-month training course, obtain a certificate and be better qualified as a teacher,” he said. “We can work with recruitment agencies that can screen the teachers for us. There might be some difference in terms of fees, but we are willing to put in a lot more work to find suitable teachers.”

A staff member at a private language school where Jon used to work said: “The process will not affect foreigners who really intend to teach. They will have to accept the new procedure if they really want to be a teacher.
 
Oh here we go again with another course. How much is this one going to cost?  And will it actually have anything to do with teaching this time? It would be nice if it did.

I'm not sure but I think he means a TEFL course (which they do) but not 100% sure. Seemingly there is an announcement due from Khurusapha (teachers council) end of September.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Kru Baa]

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It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

Behonset, you have your head where the sun never shines ! Have you seen the hundreds of thousands of indian and middle eastern lowlife that the tourism authorities seem to think is a good idea to attract ? I personally see nothing wrong with an english speaker doing a few teaching jobs here to try and make ends meet. Far better this than an english teaching school nearby where I could not even understand the english spoken by the thai national english teacher. Think of the end result, a double bonus, the thais learn how to speak english correctly and the farang has a little more spending money. Shame on you !

 

 

Right.

 

It seems that quite many people don't seem to realize that one can't teach a language just because he/she speaks it.

 

I am tired, sooo tired, of all those 'teachers' who think they are qualified to teach a language just because they are native English speakers. Reason why noone will cry for all these 'teachers' is because they are completely useless and incompetent as 'teachers'.

 

My wife speaks basic English and wanted to learn more.

 

Out of 8 'teachers' that she went through over the course of a year (some 'private' ones, some in language schools) only teacher from British Council (one around Silom, if I remember correctly) was actually worth something. Hell, he was an amazing teacher, that had structured classes and was actually doing real teaching and she really was excited about those classes.

 

All the others - every single one of them - had no books and/or no plans, they wanted to teach my wife English by "talking to her". Never mind the grammar and all that other funny stuff. None of them were qualified to be a teacher, although they lied about that in ads (and even through 'word of mouth' advertising/recommendations). They, literally, lied. Then hoped/presumed noone would ask. I am not sure whether teacher in BC was qualified either, but he certainly was completely different league than all the others and was very very competent.

 

I didn't learn my language by talking to my parents or friends. I learned it in school, and proper/qualified teacher was involved in that process.

 

Seems such concept is unknown to many English 'teachers' in Thailand.

 

So yeah, I will be happy if they go away.

 

Although I agree that there are some people here that should not be teaching English, I believe this has less to do with Thailand’s low ranking in English proficiency than the Thais themselves and their work ethic. I work in a school here (quailed and work permit) and I find that the biggest obstacle to their education is the way they run the school. Right now my school is having an event (something to do with ASEAN) which they have spent almost two weeks preparing for, out of which time I have taught only 4 out of 36 lessons that I am scheduled for.  There are one after another of these kinds of things going on all year. The Thais are the kings of finding ways to get out of doing any actual work. Also the official language of ASEAN is supposed to be in English but they are doing the whole thing in Thai. Half of the parents attending the event are foreigners and are sitting there having no idea what is going on. They refuse to try and do it in English.

 

    As far as chasing out all the “unqualified teachers”, well good luck replacing them. These schools have a very hard time finding people who meet the ever changing requirements to obtain a teacher’s license and work permit, mostly because they are just  not willing to put up with all the nonsense.

[wilcopops]

 

Teaching TEFL in Thailand is nowhere near as badly paid as some seem to think. 

The hourly rated work is on a par with most of the world.

Yes as ever there are exceptions on both sides. But countries that offer high slakes or hourly rates usually have either a high CoL inc Rents or they are not the kind of place that offers a desirable lifestyle.

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I helped someone learn English while I waiting for coffee, remembered I don't have proper work permit while volunteering, and fined myself 1900 baht.  

 

#1  crackdown and hopefully ban people for years.  discourage others to visit, let them exploit other countries

#2  start over while people who gamed the system previously cannot return

#3  get people who actually have teaching licenses, not merely a certificate.  

 

 

 

 

Yet another would be expert! completely facile post!

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by wilcopops

[kriswillems]

I think this article turns things around.

 

It says that visa runners are great teachers and if we wouldn't have them these great teachers would be replaced my non-native speakers, which are less good.

 

I completely disagree with that.

 

Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all.

Also, In my opinion the average Filipino with a degree about teaching English is still a better teacher than the average Englishman without any degree whatsoever.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by kriswillems

[AYJAYDEE]

I think this article turn things around.

 

It says that visa runners are great teachers and if we wouldn't have them these great teachers would be replaced my non-native speakers, which are less good.

 

I completely disagree with that.

 

Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all.

Also, In my opinion the average Filipino with a degree about teaching English is still a better teacher than the average Englishman without any degree whatsoever.

 

 

judging by your grammar in this post, I would disagree.

Edited August 5, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[kriswillems]

 

I think this article turn things around.

 

It says that visa runners are great teachers and if we wouldn't have them these great teachers would be replaced my non-native speakers, which are less good.

 

I completely disagree with that.

 

Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all.

Also, In my opinion the average Filipino with a degree about teaching English is still a better teacher than the average Englishman without any degree whatsoever.

 

 

judging by the grammar you have used here, I would disagree.

 

I have no degree about teaching English and I am not Filipino and I don't plan to teach. So, you better leave the judging.

[Kru Baa]

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“Eventually the English-teaching industry will be professionalised as foreign teachers will have to enrol in a one-month training course, obtain a certificate and be better qualified as a teacher,” he said. “We can work with recruitment agencies that can screen the teachers for us. There might be some difference in terms of fees, but we are willing to put in a lot more work to find suitable teachers.”

A staff member at a private language school where Jon used to work said: “The process will not affect foreigners who really intend to teach. They will have to accept the new procedure if they really want to be a teacher.
 
Oh here we go again with another course. How much is this one going to cost?  And will it actually have anything to do with teaching this time? It would be nice if it did.

I'm not sure but I think he means a TEFL course (which they do) but not 100% sure. Seemingly there is an announcement due from Khurusapha (teachers council) end of September.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Yeah well it was Khurusupha that made everyone do the Thai culture course I believe. Then they wanted people to do an additional course if their degree wasn't in education for 60,000 baht (which they dropped after realizing nobody was going to do it). Then they had the 4 exams, which were supposed to qualify you for a teacher's license. Those turned out to be an embarrassment as well so they just quit offering them without even a mention. (after I finally found the study material. So if that is where the next course is coming from then "here we go again".

[Kru Baa]

I think this article turns things around.

 

It says that visa runners are great teachers and if we wouldn't have them these great teachers would be replaced my non-native speakers, which are less good.

 

I completely disagree with that.

 

Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all.

Also, In my opinion the average Filipino with a degree about teaching English is still a better teacher than the average Englishman without any degree whatsoever

Having a degree from the Philippines doesn't mean squat. Although there are some very good Filipino teachers here most of them just look good on paper. Their English (pronunciation and grammar) are terrible. Also I have some student's who have graduated and are going to university now, and they have complained that they cant understand their English teachers. One is from China and the other from Mexico! my student's speak better English than them. But they have a degree so.....

[Kru Baa]

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It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

Exactly how are the "skiving off the country?"  Are they getting welfare payments from the Thai government? Or are they paying their own way?

 

Low end farangs huh? And what end of the spectrum are do you fall under? I'm sure you think you are the only person that should be allowed to come to Thailand, but unless they are homeless or getting benefits some how, then they are just contributing to the economy, paying their rent buying goods and services.  Anyway you sound like regular ray of sunshine. I bet you're a real fun guy to be around.    have a nice day

[wilcopops]

I think this article turns things around.

 

It says that visa runners are great teachers and if we wouldn't have them these great teachers would be replaced my non-native speakers, which are less good.

 

I completely disagree with that.

 

Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all.

Also, In my opinion the average Filipino with a degree about teaching English is still a better teacher than the average Englishman without any degree whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

"Teachers that obtain a work permit and teach have passed at least some elementary screening (by the labour department), while the visa runners never have to show any qualification at all." - really and how do you know that?

[wilcopops]

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It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

Exactly how are the "skiving off the country?"  Are they getting welfare payments from the Thai government? Or are they paying their own way?

 

Low end farangs huh? And what end of the spectrum are do you fall under? I'm sure you think you are the only person that should be allowed to come to Thailand, but unless they are homeless or getting benefits some how, then they are just contributing to the economy, paying their rent buying goods and services.  Anyway you sound like regular ray of sunshine. I bet you're a real fun guy to be around.    have a nice day

"Low end farangs" I can't see how anyone who thinks this expression is anything but gibberish can possibly have an opinion worth consideration.

[Kru Baa]

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It is time that Thai kicked out all the low end farangs skiving off the country. good riddance to them

Exactly how are the "skiving off the country?"  Are they getting welfare payments from the Thai government? Or are they paying their own way?

 

Low end farangs huh? And what end of the spectrum are do you fall under? I'm sure you think you are the only person that should be allowed to come to Thailand, but unless they are homeless or getting benefits some how, then they are just contributing to the economy, paying their rent buying goods and services.  Anyway you sound like regular ray of sunshine. I bet you're a real fun guy to be around.    have a nice day

oops typo (are do)

[Suttisan]

'During his five years working for the institution, however, Jon said he has never even come close to obtaining a work permit, despite being a university graduate and holding a teaching certificate.'

 

This guy isn't the brightest of sparks, if he has the qualifications he can get a WP and Visa, something you learn quite quickly when you're a teacher here is don't work for teaching agencies, leave that for the unqualified ones. Time to get your act together Jon. Pol Col Voravat's comments seem very reasonable, none of us like guys turning up from other countries and working illegally in our countries. Think on..

[kerrysum]

Here is my cue,
If you want them to speak English, they must live in a English speaking environment... Have watched this for years.. Any questions? Told some close Thai friends of this, their children went to foreign countries, and amazingly enough they learned English... It is no different in America.... So what is there to explain?
kilosierra

[kerrysum]

I am here from many years and I've spent a lot of money to do all the paperwork to stay here legally with a work permit, over 100k per year in taxes, fees, accounting, fly to KL every 3 months, then, they told me that they will not renew my work permit until I hire 4 Thai nationals, what a joke I work two hours a day, I certainly not have work for four thai people, in the meantime I bring about 150k of fresh money every month in the country. So technicaly there is no solution for me as I not really work in thailand, I just answer to the phone and write a few emails a day, I manage a company in Europa. I got my WP refused, I was cheated by my accountant not paying my taxes and not doing the job, I went to 5 different accountant to compare and 4 on 5 was no serious, constantly hiding fees or lying. Staying here legally is a nightmare. Alternatively Elitecard light is 500k upfront, but will I have the right to work here ?

That is the way it works, what can I say... Kerry

[auxis73]

To anyone thats interested I got this back from the Hull consulate UK.

 

The triple entry tourist visa is 3x60 days.  We are hearing varying reports regarding border crossings.   You should not have a problem with this visa in place but apparently some people are being challenged – more particularly on the Cambodian border.   If you have a ticket in place proving you are leaving Thailand at the end of the visa period, you can show a copy of that and will definitely not have a problem.

 

You can only post your application to the Royal Thai Embassy in London and you must use the Embassy’s form.   UK Consulates are only now allowed to deal with personal applications.   We here in Hull are open from 9.30 to 4pm, Monday to Friday and no appointment is necessary.

 

Regards

Royal Thai Consulate (Hull)

 

[inutil]

Here is my cue,
If you want them to speak English, they must live in a English speaking environment... Have watched this for years.. Any questions? Told some close Thai friends of this, their children went to foreign countries, and amazingly enough they learned English... It is no different in America.... So what is there to explain?
kilosierra

 

I have one! 

 

How on earth am i having fluent English conversations with an American accented Chinese dude at my local gym who has never left China? Did i wake up fluent in Chinese and havent realised it yet? 

[FangFerang]

I would love to work here legally teaching English, but I'm on a retirement visa, and I am very aware of the numbers of illegal English teachers here. Given this crackdown, wouldn't it be a good idea to provide work permits to those of us on NON-IMM (ED or Retirement) visas, and perhaps also subsidise students who wish to learn. We could clear up the English language problems easily in a year and then Thailand would not be an embarrassment within the ASEAN/AEC. Or is that all too easy?

"We could clear up the English language problems easily in a year"

 

What a nice dream. Have you even spoken to a teacher here?  The students all pass, even the ones with mental disabilities.  there is zero motivation to learn.  Teachers are hired and given increases based on attractiveness -- much more important than intellect or scholarship.

 

Private schools are subsidized, the government pays the private schools per student -- so none of this is going to change anytime soon, if ever.  The students are customers first, popularized second, and pupils third (and dead last).

 

The subsidized education scheme makes the rice pledging scheme look like petty crime.

[wilcopops]

 

Here is my cue,
If you want them to speak English, they must live in a English speaking environment... Have watched this for years.. Any questions? Told some close Thai friends of this, their children went to foreign countries, and amazingly enough they learned English... It is no different in America.... So what is there to explain?
kilosierra

 

I have one! 

 

How on earth am i having fluent English conversations with an American accented Chinese dude at my local gym who has never left China? Did i wake up fluent in Chinese and havent realised it yet? 

 

 

 

Trying to make out that individual cases or personal experience is representative of the whole picture just seems to indicate how little the poster knows about either the issues or making a valid argument on any subject

[transam]

Strange no language school has not posted anything here to help out. we know they are here..........

 

PS. Sorry if I missed their post.......

[simondan]

 

Here is my cue,
If you want them to speak English, they must live in a English speaking environment... Have watched this for years.. Any questions? Told some close Thai friends of this, their children went to foreign countries, and amazingly enough they learned English... It is no different in America.... So what is there to explain?
kilosierra

 
I have one! 
 
How on earth am i having fluent English conversations with an American accented Chinese dude at my local gym who has never left China? Did i wake up fluent in Chinese and havent realised it yet? 
 

 
 
Trying to make out that individual cases or personal experience is representative of the whole picture just seems to indicate how little the poster knows about either the issues or making a valid argument on any subject

Too true!

Its like saying 'Ive driven in Thailand for X years and never had an accident so it must be safe to drive here'.

Utter hogwash!

[ericthai]

Here is my cue,
If you want them to speak English, they must live in a English speaking environment... Have watched this for years.. Any questions? Told some close Thai friends of this, their children went to foreign countries, and amazingly enough they learned English... It is no different in America.... So what is there to explain?
kilosierra

 

i don't think that is true for any language. There are so many Ex-pats living in Thailand for many years and still unable to put together a sentence other than order a beer.  have you been to the USA lately? There are tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of South Americans living in the USA that are unable to speak English even though they have lived in the USA for many many years (most illegally). My wife has never been to the USA and she speaks English very well. She learned English in the university and after meeting me her continue use of English she got better. She was always looking up words expanding her vocabulary on her own.

 

As for the people talking about a English teacher should not need a degree. I feel bad for the teachers without degrees, but i have to admit i would agree that a teacher should need a degree. You are required to have a degree to teach in the USA, Canada, UK etc. and it is required in Thailand and should be enforced,

If you want to be a teacher in Thailand get a degree. i wanted to be an electrical Engineer i had to get a degree to do that. Prior to getting my degree I was working for an engineering company building panels and overtime I was capable of doing the Engineering work that needed to be done for this company but I was stuck as a panel builder since i did not have the degree. i went to school to be able to get the job I wanted.