stat dec questions for prospective marriage visa (aus)

[absolute11]

Good evening folks of thai visa. Some of the regular viewers have probably seen me going through quite the journey from a year back of asking for some advice on a tourist visa for my now fiancee. I popped the question after nearly 2 years a couple months ago and am getting all the incidentals prepared for a prospective marriage visa application. I've got a couple basic questions regarding stat decs, which are doing my head in a little. I'll keep it brief:

 

1. In the migration booket 1 and info on the immi.gov website, it states that certified copies should be used for everything unless it specifically states that originals are needed. I'm a little confused about this point in regards to the form 888 stat decs and my statement about our relationship... My gut feeling is to supply originals of the 888's and my statement, but make a certified copy in case something goes awry. Is this the case, or should i submit certified copies?

 

2. Obviously my fiancee cannot make a stat dec as she's not a permanent resident or citizen of Australia, though in the immi booklet it says something to the effect of 'this department prefers these statements to be prepared in the form of a stat dec'. What should i do for my fiancee? Get her to write a statement and get it signed and witnessed at the embassy? Or get it signed and witnessed by someone in Thailand of equivalent status to a stat dec witness? Or not get it signed and witnessed at all?

 

3. Regarding my personal statement about the relationship, the general advice on the web is all targeted around people applying for a spouse/defacto visa and include things that aren't necessarily applicable to someone applying for a PMV (e.g. evidence of living together and detailed information about how the household is run etc). Because we have maintained the relationship long distance, I can't really talk about things like this, though i've included some information about what it was like when she stayed here for just under 3 months last year.

 

The things I HAVE included in a rough guide are:

 

-how we first met and then our first date some months later when the relationship actually began

 

-How the relationship developed, with details of trips we've taken together, me meeting her family up country and her coming to Aus to meet my family over christmas (including some detail of what daily life was like during the period)

 

-the moment upon her return when i knew i was going to propose

 

-the proposal

 

-details of a trip planned for my family to meet her family

 

-physical and emotional support we both give to the relationship, including how we maintain the relationship duing periods of separation

 

-our future plans together

 

That equates to about 3 pages (typed, ~1700 words)

 

Now, i'm in two minds about this, because there's a lot of conflicting advice over the interwebs, and it all seems as i said before, targeted towards spouse and defacto visas. I honestly have no idea if i've gone overboard or completely undershot; from the information on the immi booklet and the visa page, I've detailed all the things they wanted me to write about, but it'd be great to know if i've gone too far in either direction or it's about right...

 

thanks for any assistance.

 

 

[David48]

1. In the migration booket 1 and info on the immi.gov website, it states that certified copies should be used for everything unless it specifically states that originals are needed. I'm a little confused about this point in regards to the form 888 stat decs and my statement about our relationship... My gut feeling is to supply originals of the 888's and my statement, but make a certified copy in case something goes awry. Is this the case, or should i submit certified copies?

 

It's a Government Form, it's their form.  It's completed and signed and submitted.  You use an original.

 

 

 

2. Obviously my fiancee cannot make a stat dec as she's not a permanent resident or citizen of Australia, though in the immi booklet it says something to the effect of 'this department prefers these statements to be prepared in the form of a stat dec'. What should i do for my fiancee? Get her to write a statement and get it signed and witnessed at the embassy? Or get it signed and witnessed by someone in Thailand of equivalent status to a stat dec witness? Or not get it signed and witnessed at all?

 

If you are referring to the Form 888, neither you nor your partner completes these forms.

 

The opening instruction paragraph on the Form 888 states ...

 

About this form

This form must be completed by a person who:

• knows the visa applicant and their partner or fiancé(e) and the history of their relationship;

• is at least 18 years of age; and

• is an Australian citizen or Australian permanent resident

 

The Form 888 is to be completed by others, not a party to the application (i.e. neither you nor your partner) who knows you.

 

I had a friend (thanks' mate) and a close relative confirm, through the Form 888 that my partner and I were in a committed relationship to the exclusion of all others.

 

 

About point #3 you raise.

 

The checklist asks you to ...

 

Written statements from you and from your fiancé detailing the history of your relationship (for example when and how you met, when you became engaged, joint activities, significant events in the relationship) and your future plans as husband and wife.

 

Don't write War and Peace.  Address the facts, write what they are asking for (as above) ... not what you think they are asking for.

 

I know it's too late now for this unsolicited personal advice, but I feel compelled to give it.

 

If your partner, who you are about to get married to has only visited Australia for one brief 3 month period, then I would advise against that.  Assuming that you want her to live with you in Australia, she would benefit by a much longer stay in Australia to see if she actually could form friendships outside your unique relationships, experience Winter here etc etc.

 

If she has been granted a single entry tourist visa and has complied with the conditions of that visa, a longer 12 month multiple entry visa is usually easy to get and would allow her to sample more of Australian life.

 

Plus I would not get married in Australia, but get hitched in Thailand.

 

Personal advice over.

 

Good luck.

.

[Tonyguy]

Hi David 48 I am interested in your advice about getting married in Thailand rather than Australia would appreciate your thoughts and experiences which lead to this suggestion. Thanks appreciate your advice and that of the Thaivisa community.

[David48]

Hi David 48 I am interested in your advice about getting married in Thailand rather than Australia would appreciate your thoughts and experiences which lead to this suggestion. Thanks appreciate your advice and that of the Thaivisa community.

 

Tony ...maybe best to start a Forum question to get an in-depth answer.

 

This is the Visa Forum
 

[absolute11]

Hi David,

 

in regards to your responses...

 

1. Thanks, that clears that up

 

2. Not about the 888 forms... Under the statutory declarations sub heading in booklet 1, it talks about personal statements about the history of our relationship. There is a separate heading below detailing info about the 888's.

 

3. She WAS granted a 1 year multiple entry, and she visited twice under it, once for 3 months and once for a week in june this year (when i proposed). Her work commitments did not allow her visit for more than a week the second time; she took unpaid leave the first time.

 

Is your personal advice geared towards her well-being while in australia, or that it would be a negative aspect of our application?
 

[Gopro]

Form 888 is to done by aussie citizens only, that know you both. These need to be signed in front of a JP or equiv notary public. Send originals.

 

Your stat decs (personal statements) can be signed and stamped in front of a JP or notary public in thailand. Send originals

 

Edited August 7, 2014 by Gopro

[OZEMADE]

As David48 has stated, get hitched in Thailand at the Amphur. I and my little lady showed up with 2 witnesses, my mates and their passports and it was all over in 15 minutes. That is a legal Thai marriage.

They give you printouts of the marriage certificate, in my case we got 2.

We then had these translated by a Thai Solicitor as a true and correct translation to English and had all documents laminated.

When we applied for Temporary Residency and later Permanent Residency in Australia we had to supply originals and translated originals of the marriage certificate.

A registered Thai marriage at an Amphur, is recognised as a legal marriage in Australia.

A Thai marriage performed by a Monk and a big party after it is not a legally recognised marriage in OZ.

[khwaibah]

"A Thai marriage performed by a Monk and a big party after it is not a legally recognised marriage in OZ."

 

Or anywhere in the world including Thailand.  

 

[OZEMADE]

 

"A Thai marriage performed by a Monk and a big party after it is not a legally recognised marriage in OZ."

 

Or anywhere in the world including Thailand.  

 

 

And you would be surprised how many boofheads in Thailand think after it they are married.

[David48]

Form 888 is to done by aussie citizens only, that know you both. These need to be signed in front of a JP or equiv notary public. Send originals.

 

Your stat decs (personal statements) can be signed and stamped in front of a JP or notary public in thailand. Send originals

 

 

Just for clarity ... my Thai partner and I are doing the Partner Visa ATM.

 

Very similar to the Prospective Marriage Visa the OP is referring to.

 

Neither my partner nor I submitted any Stat Decs ... not required from us.

 

 

Required in de-facto as the Form 888, but from us (Applicant and Sponsor), when we told our life stories of how we met, our hopes, dreams and aspirations etc ... we simply typed them out and submitted them.

 

All this talk of 'Stat Decs' is so last century ... the Government has moved on from them because, to be honest, they mean very little.

 

The exact words relating to those statements are ...

 

Written statements from you and from your fiancé detailing the history of your relationship (for example when and how you met, when you became engaged, joint activities, significant events in the relationship) and your future plans as husband and wife.

 

Nothing in there that they have to be submitted in the form of a Stat Dec.

.

[krisb]

Just being honest, I'm not the sharpest tool in the,shed, but so many way over think these visas.

Just send as many original copies as you can of whatever they want, throw a few decent pics in, pour your heart out, tick the boxes, pay the fee, and if there's more info needed, the case officer will ring.

It really is that simple mate. If I can sort it, we all have hope. Simples.

Don't over think it too much. Short, sweet and complete if you like.

[krisb]

Btw op, if your fiancee had a fiancee visa, she would be eligible to be in Australia and work.

Then simply bridge the partner visa over with zero waiting. This visa lasts 9 months and in that time you must get married.

[Tonyguy]

Hi Krisb
Could you please explain what you mean by Then simply bridge the partner visa over with zero waiting.
I am weighing up prospective marriage visa and her married first then partner visa. Thanks for your time and advice.

[Gopro]

 

Form 888 is to done by aussie citizens only, that know you both. These need to be signed in front of a JP or equiv notary public. Send originals.

 

Your stat decs (personal statements) can be signed and stamped in front of a JP or notary public in thailand. Send originals

 

 

Just for clarity ... my Thai partner and I are doing the Partner Visa ATM.

 

Very similar to the Prospective Marriage Visa the OP is referring to.

 

Neither my partner nor I submitted any Stat Decs ... not required from us.

 

 

Required in de-facto as the Form 888, but from us (Applicant and Sponsor), when we told our life stories of how we met, our hopes, dreams and aspirations etc ... we simply typed them out and submitted them.

 

All this talk of 'Stat Decs' is so last century ... the Government has moved on from them because, to be honest, they mean very little.

 

The exact words relating to those statements are ...

 

Written statements from you and from your fiancé detailing the history of your relationship (for example when and how you met, when you became engaged, joint activities, significant events in the relationship) and your future plans as husband and wife.

 

Nothing in there that they have to be submitted in the form of a Stat Dec.

.

 

 

 

David, if your friends have to submit signed declarations (Form 888) for you, and your looking to add weight to your own statements, would you not think declaring it, will help with that?

 

Every legal document you submit in this world is someone way required to be signed and stamped. Why not do this for 2 bits of paper your putting your name to. Stat decs are a blank template, where you add your own story, and a man with a fancy stamp just stamps it. It helps to show your story is genuine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gopro]

Hi Krisb
Could you please explain what you mean by Then simply bridge the partner visa over with zero waiting.
I am weighing up prospective marriage visa and her married first then partner visa. Thanks for your time and advice.

 

Tony, when in Australia if your partner has a valid visa (prospective marriage) and she is eligible to apply for a further visa to stay in Australia (i.e she has no conditions limiting her) she could possibly apply for a partner visa whilst in Australia. On this application, she would automatically be granted a bridging visa, which allows her to stay in Australia until the partner visa is granted/refused. Her other visa is current until it expires and then the bridging visa takes over whilst waiting for decision.

[David48]

Form 888 is to done by aussie citizens only, that know you both. These need to be signed in front of a JP or equiv notary public. Send originals.

 

Your stat decs (personal statements) can be signed and stamped in front of a JP or notary public in thailand. Send originals

 

 

Just for clarity ... my Thai partner and I are doing the Partner Visa ATM.

 

Very similar to the Prospective Marriage Visa the OP is referring to.

 

Neither my partner nor I submitted any Stat Decs ... not required from us.

 

 

Required in de-facto as the Form 888, but from us (Applicant and Sponsor), when we told our life stories of how we met, our hopes, dreams and aspirations etc ... we simply typed them out and submitted them.

 

All this talk of 'Stat Decs' is so last century ... the Government has moved on from them because, to be honest, they mean very little.

 

The exact words relating to those statements are ...

 

Written statements from you and from your fiancé detailing the history of your relationship (for example when and how you met, when you became engaged, joint activities, significant events in the relationship) and your future plans as husband and wife.

 

Nothing in there that they have to be submitted in the form of a Stat Dec.

 

David, if your friends have to submit signed declarations (Form 888) for you, and your looking to add weight to your own statements, would you not think declaring it, will help with that?

 

Every legal document you submit in this world is someone way required to be signed and stamped. Why not do this for 2 bits of paper your putting your name to. Stat decs are a blank template, where you add your own story, and a man with a fancy stamp just stamps it. It helps to show your story is genuine.

 

GoPro .. I appreciate what you are trying to say ...

 

When it comes to the application, the bit where you and the applicant supply supporting documents, if you write your personal story on a piece of paper or a Stat Dec ... it makes naught difference to the application.

 

 

I disagree when you write about using a Stat Dec ... 'It helps to show your story is genuine.'.

 

But if you think a Stat Dec adds weight to an application, by all means, submit a Stat Dec. 

 

I'm not saying to anyone, not to use one. 

 

IMHO, I'm just saying, it doesn't add any weight or additional substance to an application where the Australian Government doesn't ask for it.

 

 

I paid $3,000 to submit the application ... money that I don't get back if the application fails.  Personally, if I thought a Stat Dec was required for the Applicants and my personal stories, believe me ... I would have used one.

.
 

Edited August 11, 2014 by David48

[krisb]

Hi Krisb
Could you please explain what you mean by Then simply bridge the partner visa over with zero waiting.
I am weighing up prospective marriage visa and her married first then partner visa. Thanks for your time and advice.

Yep, if you get a fiancee visa first these are automatically bridged to a partner visa once you lodge the partner visa application while waiting for a decision on that visa. Took us a couple of weeks and the partner visa was issued. Remember its still a wait to get a fiancee visa.

We took this path cause it best suited her really. Gave her some time (9months) to decide if living and working in Aus would work rather than another extended holiday. It was cheaper back then, under a grand for these visas. Sadly the price has gone through the roof now. She still has to go through the medicals, police clearance etc.

[Tonyguy]

Thanks very much Krisb for the clear explanation. How long did it take to get the fiancée visa approved?

[krisb]

Thanks very much Krisb for the clear explanation. How long did it take to get the fiancée visa approved?

Was a while ago now, think around 6 months or so to approve. I remember because I was back in Aus working it took me a while to send some things so by memory it could have been quicker if I had of been quicker. Its a good visa, she can work here but she can't get Medicare which is a bit harsh. It states you must marry before the visa expires. Then once married, submit the partner visa asap.

[aussiebob]

The argument to stat dec or not to stat dec was argued to death on this forum about 8 years ago and resulted in much mud slinging and verbal insults. DON'T GO THERE.

[krisb]

The argument to stat dec or not to stat dec was argued to death on this forum about 8 years ago and resulted in much mud slinging and verbal insults. DON'T GO THERE.

Sounds like you still have a sour taste in your mouth 8 years later :D