Thai police find 9 babies in a condo - Fear of surrogacy being misused for stem cells

[webfact]

CRIME
Fear of surrogacy being misused for stem cells
The Nation



Police probe case involving nine babies found in a condo; may file charges against doctors

BANGKOK: -- FOLLOWING THE much-publicised case of the unauthorised surrogacy involving a Thai mother and an Australian couple, a raid by police and soldiers at a Bangkok condominium found nine babies thought to have been fathered by a Japanese man.

Former minister Paveen Hongsakul, who initiated the raid on Tuesday on Soi Lat Phrao 130, feared that in the worst-case scenario this "surrogacy-for-hire" scam may be related to the potentially fatal extraction of foetal fluid to provide stem cells.

She also called on authorities to investigate a case related to a woman who said she was paid for surrogate pregnancy, but lost the baby seven months into her pregnancy. Pavena wants investigators to find out if the foetus's spinal fluid was extracted for the manufacture of cosmetics.

As for the nine babies found in the Lat Phrao condo, Pavena said most of them looked Caucasian, while only one had Asian features. The infants were between 15 and 50 days old. She urged surrogate mothers to contact her foundation, the police, the Social Development and Human Security Ministry that she previously led or the Public Health Ministry for help.

The police are now taking action, with national police chief Pol General Aek Angsananont saying yesterday that DNA-based paternal checks were underway.

Meanwhile, police are questioning a lawyer representing the unnamed Japanese man, who allegedly fathered the nine babies, as well as the seven nannies hired to take care of the infants. Another woman, who is six months into her pregnancy, is also being interviewed, he added.

Pol Colonel Chitphob Tomuen, a commander of the police Anti-Human Trafficking Division, said his division would help with the investigation and prepare to file charges against people who might be violating medical profession regulations.

Meanwhile, a senior physician specialising in fertility medicine, yesterday voiced his support for immediate verification of the nine babies' DNA. Prof Dr Somboon Kunathikom, a former chairman of the Royal Thai College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RTCOG), said the latest discovery was suspicious because usually children borne through surrogacy are adopted almost immediately by couples who foot the hospital bills.

Hence, he said, relevant agencies had to work together to find out if surrogate children were actually being taken care of or exploited in different ways.

The nine babies are now in a government home for children in Nonthaburi and will be kept there while police proceed with further investigation and DNA tests.

Medical Council to get tough

Dr Somsak Lolekha, chairman of the Medical Council of Thailand, vowed yesterday to take drastic action against cases of surrogacy if they are found to be violating medical profession regulations. This was after the latest case involving a baby boy with Down's Syndrome, who was abandoned by an Australian couple, while his healthy twin sister was adopted.

Somsak also promised to push a bill that was initiated six years ago, which would pose strict penalties on women who agree to be hired for surrogate pregnancies, those violating existing medical regulations as well as those acting as go-betweens or playing any other role in the scam.

He said doctors, clinics or hospitals that perform unauthorised surrogacies will be held responsible under the general Medical Council of Thailand rules and be subject to penalty. "The bill [when made into law] will subject women willing to take part and all parties involved to strict penalty," he added.

Existing regulations do not penalise women willing to take part in surrogate pregnancies, but only prohibit women from carrying babies if they are not related to the adoptive parents or do it for money. The law also stipulates that doctors not registered with RTCOG would be subject to a one-year imprisonment and/or a maximum Bt20,000 fine - and ultimately revocation of their licence if found guilty by the Medical Council of Thailand in a further investigation on grounds of morality and professional ethics.

Dr Kamthorn Pruksananonda, a senior RTCOG official, said doctors who performed unauthorised surrogacies could not claim innocence as they need to know all facts involving parents and surrogate mothers and scientifically-based details. The case of the abandoned boy is clearly a violation of surrogacy regulations, as the surrogate mother is a Thai and the parents are foreigners, he added.

Darren O'Malley, spokesman for the Western Australia Department for Child Protection, confirmed to AFP that an investigation has been launched.

"We have the power to remove children when there is significant and immediate concern over their welfare," he added.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Fear-of-surrogacy-being-misused-for-stem-cells-30240419.html

[thenation]2014-08-07[/thenation]

[kurnell]

Scary prison sentences! That's the way to deter crime. In Thailand you can murder and dismember someone and be down at the beach partying in a few short years.

[Bender]

Sickening place, here everything is for sale. These people are certainly born without human dignity .

This kind of business deserve death penalty!

[robertthebruce]

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

[NongKhaiKid]

Sickening place, here everything is for sale. These people are certainly born without human dignity .

This kind of business deserve death penalty!

In LoS all the pious words about Buddhism,  culture etc go right out the window when there's money to be made.

[BradinAsia]

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 

"In Thailand life is cheap..."

 

Do you often over generalize?

[BrooklynNY]

 

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 

"In Thailand life is cheap..."

 

Do you often over generalize?

 

 

I do not think it is overgeneralize. I almost die cheaply in Thailand two years ago as a pedestrian was struck hard by an unregistered, without a driver license and uninsured motorcycle that did not have front and back lights. The rider paid 400THB to police for breaking the traffic law but I did not get any compensation from the rider. The police told me that I have to take the rider to court myself if I want him to pay for my medical bill amount of 3,000 THB. 

 

I offered the rider to pay me an installment of 100 THB a month but he took off not paying at all on the first month with an excuse that he used the money to buy liquor.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2014 by BrooklynNY

[thesetat2013]

Can you imagine the loopholes in these punishments?
Well! Instead of invitro fertilization they can always impregnate the woman naturally. Also, any woman can claim who is father and grant custody at birth. These thai woman who are making babies will not stop if there is a demand. They will just change tactics to make it look legal. Appearance is everything here to Thais. And skirting the laws is commonplace

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kotsak]

Most fundamental concept of economics.. Supply and Demand..

[robertthebruce]

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 
"In Thailand life is cheap..."
 
Do you often over generalize?

Give me a shout when you crawl out under the stone...

[Pib]

All that needs to happen now is these various and recent surrogacy stories to go viral on worldwide news agencies like CNN, BBC, etc., and Thailand can become another well known hub.  I sure hope the govt puts some serious effort vs lip service into improving its surrogacy laws and enforcement.

[Bluespunk]

"Former minister Paveen Hongsakul, who initiated the raid on Tuesday on Soi Lat Phrao 130, feared that in the worst-case scenario this "surrogacy-for-hire" scam may be related to the potentially fatal extraction of foetal fluid to provide stem cells."

Why?

[chooka]

Most fundamental concept of economics.. Supply and Demand..

Human trafficking.  Definitely not going to help their image or the tier 3 removed.

[kamahele]

Well this is quite a disgusting turn of events

[Seastallion]

There's a creepy indie horror movie in this; Japanese eccentric, Thai surrogate mothers, babies, stem cells....

But it's REAL!!!!

[Pimay1]

Former minister Paveen Hongsakul, who initiated the raid on Tuesday on Soi Lat Phrao 130, feared that in the worst-case scenario this "surrogacy-for-hire" scam may be related to the potentially fatal extraction of foetal fluid to provide stem cells.

 

I knew there were wicked, evil and heinous people in this world but I didn't know they did something like this. It appears the Josef Mengele genes are alive and well.

[orosee]

I thought stem cells require embryos, not full grown babies. Mind you, that was the "worst case" scenario, so there's no proof of indicator that that's what happened here.

Too disgusting even for "Hostel" style torture porn :-(

[ironbark]

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 
"In Thailand life is cheap..."
 
Do you often over generalize?

I agree. Unfortunately, too many people over generalise, respond in a knee jerk manner and fail to see the full picture before condemning an issue. I call it the vigilante in us all.

Some people rush to the conclusion that therefore ALL surrogacy should be banned.
This fails to to acknowledge that their are thousands of childless couples want and are entitled to experience the joy of having their own children through a properly managed surrogacy program.

The issue above if substantiated after proper investigation is a good example of the dark side of surrogacy. But the flaw is not in surrogacy per se but in a legal system that fails to properly manage an ethical system of surrogacy. Edited August 7, 2014 by ironbark

[SOTIRIOS]

...human rights leader.....???

 

...how sick can you be....???

[Carrerakiss]

If the Japanese man is the father, why do most the children look Caucasian?

What led the police to this flat?

The whole spinal fluid, stem cell research thing sounds far fetched to me. Much more likely is the supply of babies to couples who are unable to conceive. Although why there would be an inventory of babies, I have no idea. Any couple wanting to "adopt" is much more likely to want the baby immediately it's born.

I have a faint hope this was just a crèche for kids, although the young age of the babies suggests otherwise.

Quite a few questions prompted by the article, as usual.

[LotusBoy]

 

 

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 
"In Thailand life is cheap..."
 
Do you often over generalize?

I agree. Unfortunately, too many people over generalise, respond in a knee jerk manner and fail to see the full picture before condemning an issue. I call it the vigilante in us all.

Some people rush to the conclusion that therefore ALL surrogacy should be banned.
This fails to to acknowledge that their are thousands of childless couples want and are entitled to experience the joy of having their own children through a properly managed surrogacy program.

The issue above if substantiated after proper investigation is a good example of the dark side of surrogacy. But the flaw is not in surrogacy per se but in a legal system that fails to properly manage an ethical system of surrogacy.

 

 

It should be banned here in LOS. 

 

These babies are safe at least, but I dread to think how many more were not!!

 

This is another horror story from Thailand. So if we generalize SO BE IT, we live here.

 

Adopt, ADopt, ADOpt, ADOPt, ADOPT!!!!!

Edited August 7, 2014 by LotusBoy

[Carrerakiss]

 

 

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 
"In Thailand life is cheap..."
 
Do you often over generalize?

I agree. Unfortunately, too many people over generalise, respond in a knee jerk manner and fail to see the full picture before condemning an issue. I call it the vigilante in us all.

Some people rush to the conclusion that therefore ALL surrogacy should be banned.
This fails to to acknowledge that their are thousands of childless couples want and are entitled to experience the joy of having their own children through a properly managed surrogacy program.

The issue above if substantiated after proper investigation is a good example of the dark side of surrogacy. But the flaw is not in surrogacy per se but in a legal system that fails to properly manage an ethical system of surrogacy.
 

 
It should be banned here in LOS. 
 
These babies are safe at least, but I dread to think how many more were not!!
 
This is another horror story is from Thailand. So if we generalize SO BE IT, we live here.
 
Adopt, ADopt, ADOpt, ADOPt, ADOPT!!!!!

Thanks for the encouragement to adopt. But is it ok if my wife and I just have our own baby and care for it ourselves?

Jeez, you think there aren't also abuses with adoption practices in Thailand. Just like everything in Thailand, the problem is not whatever issue is at hand, it's the implementation, regulation and monitoring that's the problem.

[Paulzed]

Another act of evil by Thai people that have no concept of Buddhism or Humanity!
Hopefully world leaders and big business will also find stories like this horrifying and start to boycott Thai goods and place sanctions on them.
And the Junta needs to take off the white gloves and start handing out hefty prison sentences and more death sentences.

[h90]

Sickening place, here everything is for sale. These people are certainly born without human dignity .

This kind of business deserve death penalty!

 

one is selling babys

the other want that the state is killing people.....

[greenchair]

Those children each had a paid caregiver to give them everything they need. The fluid thing is farfetched and not proven.now where are they? Stuck in an overpopulated orphanage, probably sat crying in a cot all day, with minimal care. Keeping them with the 7caregivers with supervision during investigation seems a wiser choice. Poor little things in that babies home. Hope there is a happy ending

[NCFC]

One should google about who is allegedly benefitting from stem cell treatment and one would be astonished at the allegations. Though one would have to google from outside thailand to find these stories.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

I thought stem cells require embryos, not full grown babies. Mind you, that was the "worst case" scenario, so there's no proof of indicator that that's what happened here.

Too disgusting even for "Hostel" style torture porn :-(

 

There are different types of stem cells, those from the 'Blyoplast' - a 5-10 days after conception collection of the first 'cells', there are embryonic, foetal, and adult. The most potent and easily manipulated are those from the baby/foetus. If I recall the placenta and umbilical cord are also a huge source of stem cells and there is enough of that thrown in the bin everyday to supply all stem cell needs surely.At the moment my understanding is that the commercial application most in demand for these things (and certainly back street clinics) is that the stem cells can have a big age reduction effect, so certain wealthy women want them to look younger. It is straight out of one of the old "Hammer House of Horror' movies, as bad as any 'vampire witch' drinking the blood of innocents to remain youthful. This world is so frakked up.

 

Edited to add: Just check out the link to see some 'ethical' info on stem cell application in Bangkok. I guess it is important to add balance so that we are not caught in a wave of hysteria over stem cell technology. In the link you will see you can now have your babies stem cells 'banked' after they are removed from the umbilical cord or placenta, which can then be used for your child to cure any serious illness in future years. However the story in the OP if proven true is a horror story and something must be done to protect the innocent.

 

http://www.bangkokstemcell.co.th/

Edited August 7, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[animatic]

Disgusting, paedophiles cultivating their victims and other innocent babies being cultivated for medical experiments.  Surrogacy needs to be stamped out for good.  If you want a child try adopting.

I agree with the first part; disgusting degenerate, vile loathsome etc.

 

But not the conclusion.

Surrogacy must be highly regulated so ONLY legitimate surrogacy is done.

I heartily disagree with the later part, 'stamped out' is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

A knee jerk reaction.

 

To say to potential legitimate parents with good eggs and good sperm but a deformed or damaged uterus, 

from no fault of their own, such as car accident etc etc, that there is no hope for getting their own child is unnecessarily cruel.

 

Of course what we may be seeing here with this 'alleged potential Japanese run baby farm'

is the same fear as applied to cloning that has been a staple of SciFi for decades. It is not surprising

that this is discovered in poor nations with laise faire law enforcement and a ready pool of willing poor women.

 

As with any technology there are risks of the amoral preying on the desperate for profit,

same as traditional human trafficking or organ trafficking etc. It is vile and despicable.

 

But should we outlaw all poor women traveling abroad for work?

Or outlaw all organ transplants, because some people will do vile things to live longer?

 

It is really not a cut and dried argument against surrogacy.

But there is no argument at all against serious regulation of the process.

Edited August 7, 2014 by animatic

[animatic]

Another act of evil by Thai people that have no concept of Buddhism or Humanity!
Hopefully world leaders and big business will also find stories like this horrifying and start to boycott Thai goods and place sanctions on them.
And the Junta needs to take off the white gloves and start handing out hefty prison sentences and more death sentences.

Gross over reaction.

Pressure should be applied, but boycotting Thailand is ridiculous.

[kannot]

 

 

All very sad, in Thailand life is cheap in every respect, god knows what these poor babies were for, I dread to think...

 
"In Thailand life is cheap..."
 
Do you often over generalize?

I agree. Unfortunately, too many people over generalise, respond in a knee jerk manner and fail to see the full picture before condemning an issue. I call it the vigilante in us all.

Some people rush to the conclusion that therefore ALL surrogacy should be banned.
This fails to to acknowledge that their are thousands of childless couples want and are entitled to experience the joy of having their own children through a properly managed surrogacy program.

The issue above if substantiated after proper investigation is a good example of the dark side of surrogacy. But the flaw is not in surrogacy per se but in a legal system that fails to properly manage an ethical system of surrogacy.

 

Id  agree wholeheartedly as someone who will have to go down the surrogacy route myself, low sperm count and Wife who has endometriosis.