Thai Immigration issues new police order 327/2557 effective August 29, 2014

[paz]

Yeah I know. 'Education personnel' or 'teachers', same same = Thai staff. Point being, if you have money you want real teachers, and having to hire 90% filler to do so is more than worth it.

I don't know which point are you trying to make. Education personnel is not teachers.

2.7 Educational Personnel is: Person performing librarian, guidance, educational technology, registration and evaluation, general administration, supporter of education as specified by the Private Education Commission.

These jobs have a limit of 1 to 10 for Thai nationals. Not teachers.

[ClareQuilty]

Yeah I know. 'Education personnel' or 'teachers', same same = Thai staff. Point being, if you have money you want real teachers, and having to hire 90% filler to do so is more than worth it.

I don't know which point are you trying to make. Education personnel is not teachers.

2.7 Educational Personnel is: Person performing librarian, guidance, educational technology, registration and evaluation, general administration, supporter of education as specified by the Private Education Commission.

These jobs have a limit of 1 to 10 for Thai nationals. Not teachers.

That's precisely my point - Thai nationals are not teachers. Just a bit of a facetious joke, but not far from the truth if you've ever worked in a Thai educational institution.

[iamariva1957]

Clause 2.7 In the case of a teacher, professor, expert or educational personnel in a private educational institution:

Adds the following:

Educational Personnel is: Person performing librarian, guidance, educational technology, registration and evaluation, general administration, supporter of education as specified by the Private Education Commission

Also adds the following under Criteria for Consideration.

(4) In case of educational personnel, the alien must have degree or experience that meet the work requirement and the ratio of alien employees shall not exceed

So I guess that the old rule of needing a degree is now not the only way you can get a WP as a teacher. The inclusion of the word "experience" as a separate entity (as indicated by the use of the word "or" in the statement) allows those with enough life experience and a TEFL (or equivalent) to be able to share what we know with students legally. Good! Well... maybe good. Guess we will have to see what is done with this passage in the new law. Somehow I think that there was something lost in translation perhaps. For the way it is written is too logical... which is not a Thai thing.

But I live in hope!

Educational personal. Not teacher.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Come on that is splitting hairs. Besides, in Vegas during the '70's though someone with a criminal record could not run a casino, that did not mean that they were not able to work in one as say the "Beverage Manager". The term used, "Educational Personal", is vague and the those positions as stated in the Private Education Commission have a great deal of room in which to maneuver within. So, following that line in the sand, a teacher if they can prove that they can apply what they have learned during their lives and have the willingness to share that knowledge should be allowed under these new guidelines to provide a service as a teacher. At least that is the argument. Besides, having a degree in Art History alone at the ripe age of, say 20 something, does not make make you capable of teaching, say English.

Each person is different and with the 50 year old plus inclusion in other rules (such as retirement, etc) in play still... the knowledge of the people in this age group have a great deal more to offer than someone on their Gap Year or with a degree from Something University. It is the experience that matters not simply the degree. Thailand should not be a place where first time teachers with a simple degree in anything should have greater chances of being able to teach over those with the experience in life and all that they would bring with them.

I know, I know... but that is not only my opinion but rather one that is shared by many of the teachers that I have worked with. We older folks have a greater understanding of the task at hand, based upon what we have seen and learned throughout our lives. Being vetted by the institutions we wish to work for/with is important.. yes. But at least by the inclusion of the term already mentioned, it seems that now there is a willingness by the authorities to be heard and make our own cases for 'teacher-hood'.

[paz]

Come on that is splitting hairs.

[digressing rant likely caused by boredom deleted]

It's not splitting hairs.

Before, English school could have 1:4 foreigner/Thai employees (excluding teachers)

Now, 1:10. Still excluding teachers.

[positiveaction]

Hi lot of info....my question is quite straightforward...I am on a 60 day tourist visa from KL and looking to pay 1900 and get a one month extension...berforethis was a relative formality...any change due to this info???

And has anyone had any difficulty in gettting this extension - in Phuket???

any proof of anything needed???

[paz]

Hi lot of info....my question is quite straightforward...I am on a 60 day tourist visa from KL and looking to pay 1900 and get a one month extension...berforethis was a relative formality...any change due to this info???

And has anyone had any difficulty in gettting this extension - in Phuket???

any proof of anything needed???

No changes, no difficulties.

[positiveaction]

Hi lot of info....my question is quite straightforward...I am on a 60 day tourist visa from KL and looking to pay 1900 and get a one month extension...berforethis was a relative formality...any change due to this info???

And has anyone had any difficulty in gettting this extension - in Phuket???

any proof of anything needed???

No changes, no difficulties.

thanks...anyone you know extended in Phuket recently?

[paz]

thanks...anyone you know extended in Phuket recently?

Plenty of forum members deal with Phuket immigration. No reports, no trouble.

[fredzafsky]

I am currently employed as a supervisor at a primary school. I have been granted a work permit and multiple-entry visa for this purpose. The multiple-entry visa is quite an inconvenience.

Does this new police order mean I can now be granted an extension of stay under the rubric of 'educational personnel'? If so, I will maybe try to apply in the next few weeks.

[Mario2008]

I am currently employed as a supervisor at a primary school. I have been granted a work permit and multiple-entry visa for this purpose. The multiple-entry visa is quite an inconvenience.

Does this new police order mean I can now be granted an extension of stay under the rubric of 'educational personnel'? If so, I will maybe try to apply in the next few weeks.

That might be the case, also depending on the job description as an administrator needs a teaching permit. if you however fall under educational personnel you will still need to show a degree or relevant work experience.

[Kru Baa]

Araii Waa??!! So are you telling us that a school has to have 10 Thai employees to one foreign teacher? Yeah good luck with that.

They just cant stop messing with people.

[ubonjoe]

Clause 2.9 In the case of enrollment in a private educational institution:

This is the most common extension for attending a school. It is possible that language schools may fall under these changes.

Adds

(2) In case of nonformal school, each permission shall be granted for a period certified by the educational institution, for no more than 90 days, total length of stay shall not exceed

one year from the date of entering the Kingdom.

Wow, thanks for actually clarifying nothing.

It shows that if you don't study at a regular school, you now only get an extension of stay for 90 days at a time. (Up till now it was possible to get 1 year extensions of stay if you for example studied at a language school. Now only students at regular schools, such as a high school, college or university can get a 1 year extension.

It further limits the time you can study at non-formal schools to 1 year from the date of entry into the country. That means you cannot get an Ed-visa if you just lost your job after 3 years working in Thailand. You must go abroad and apply for an ED-visa there.

If you can leave the country after 1 year of study to get a new ED-visa and go to the same or another school will depend on the consulate you apply and the rules the Thai Foreign Ministry will set. That remains to be seen.

What is sure that the new rules will effect people doing a dive course or study Muay Thai. The question is if it will also effect language schools, but in my humble opinion language schools are seen as tutoring and thus fall under the new rules. But that is only my estimate and it also leaves the question what will happen with people studying at this moment and having been doing so already for more than 1 year.

I am sure language school owners will want to know their position to and are trying to find out how the new rules will effect their business and students. Hopefully they will post soon.

what will happen with people studying at this moment and having been doing so already for more than 1 year.

To get specific, this is more my question/concern....

I'll use myself as an example. My second year of school is scheduled to begin September 1st. I've already been approved by MOE. Under the old rules I'm permitted to stay and study one more year, extending every 90 days at immigration. I'll surely go in with my documents before the 29th, but the question is, will i be grandfathered in, for a year? Or am I going to have a big problem after 90 days?

It seems as though there isn't a definitive answer, although if someone knows something I dont, please chime in.

At the moment I cannot answer you question with any certainty it would be correct. Since the new order has not gone into effect yet there is no info on how it will be done.since there are no reports to go by. But normally immigration does not make their new orders retroactive.

That was on my list of questions for immigration but I have not gotten an answer yet.

[Mario2008]

Araii Waa??!! So are you telling us that a school has to have 10 Thai employees to one foreign teacher? Yeah good luck with that.

They just cant stop messing with people.

Try reading it again.

Foreign educational staff (not being a teacher) has a ratio of 10% only.

[BlackJack]

I am trying to keep up reading this but its just coming to fast. So mods you have your work cut out. Thanks for the replies.

In 138 -2557 section 2.5 Investment of no less than 3 Million baht or B 10 million baht

So for the 3 million investment this must have been done before 2006 and the 10 million investment done before 2011 -

I take it that this investment avenue is now closed to new investors?

If so its a pity as there are loads of vacant condos that need selling

Where are you getting 2011 from. I don't see it mentioned in either order.

You could do it now if you had 10 million baht in the bank.

B. Investment of no less than Baht 10 million:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).

(2) Must have evidence of transferring funds into Thailand of no less than Baht 10 million.

(3) Must have evidence of investing in the purchase or rental of a condominium unit

period of no less than 3 years issued by a relevant agency or government, at a purchase

rental price of no less than Baht 10 million:

B3 no less than 3 years

2014 - 3 = 2011

is this right ??

[ubonjoe]

I am trying to keep up reading this but its just coming to fast. So mods you have your work cut out. Thanks for the replies.

In 138 -2557 section 2.5 Investment of no less than 3 Million baht or B 10 million baht

So for the 3 million investment this must have been done before 2006 and the 10 million investment done before 2011 -

I take it that this investment avenue is now closed to new investors?

If so its a pity as there are loads of vacant condos that need selling

Where are you getting 2011 from. I don't see it mentioned in either order.

You could do it now if you had 10 million baht in the bank.

B. Investment of no less than Baht 10 million:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).

(2) Must have evidence of transferring funds into Thailand of no less than Baht 10 million.

(3) Must have evidence of investing in the purchase or rental of a condominium unit

period of no less than 3 years issued by a relevant agency or government, at a purchase

rental price of no less than Baht 10 million:

B3 no less than 3 years

2014 - 3 = 2011

is this right ??

The 3 years is only for a condo lease.

You did not mention that in your post.

[BlackJack]

I am trying to keep up reading this but its just coming to fast. So mods you have your work cut out. Thanks for the replies.

In 138 -2557 section 2.5 Investment of no less than 3 Million baht or B 10 million baht

So for the 3 million investment this must have been done before 2006 and the 10 million investment done before 2011 -

I take it that this investment avenue is now closed to new investors?

If so its a pity as there are loads of vacant condos that need selling

Where are you getting 2011 from. I don't see it mentioned in either order.

You could do it now if you had 10 million baht in the bank.

B. Investment of no less than Baht 10 million:

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).

(2) Must have evidence of transferring funds into Thailand of no less than Baht 10 million.

(3) Must have evidence of investing in the purchase or rental of a condominium unit

period of no less than 3 years issued by a relevant agency or government, at a purchase

rental price of no less than Baht 10 million:

B3 no less than 3 years

2014 - 3 = 2011

is this right ??

The 3 years is only for a condo lease.

You did not mention that in your post.

"in the purchase OR rental of a condo .... of no less than 3 years"

So being Thai language with no punctuation etc. It should read something like investing by purchasing a 10 mill in a condo . Renting a condo for 10 mill for a period of no less than 3 years.

Could be interesting as the sale price is always higher than what the Land Office values it at and if someone was collecting 10 million in rent then that would attract a tax me thinks

mmmmmm - rock and hard place

[fredzafsky]

I am currently employed as a supervisor at a primary school. I have been granted a work permit and multiple-entry visa for this purpose. The multiple-entry visa is quite an inconvenience.

Does this new police order mean I can now be granted an extension of stay under the rubric of 'educational personnel'? If so, I will maybe try to apply in the next few weeks.

That might be the case, also depending on the job description as an administrator needs a teaching permit. if you however fall under educational personnel you will still need to show a degree or relevant work experience.

Ok, great.

I believe my English co-ordinator will make the same case to immigration (relating my degree to my supervisor role) that she has already made to the labour office (for my work permit) and the Thai embassy in Penang (for my multiple-entry visa).

We will try and I will report back whatever the case.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited August 10, 2014 by fredzafsky

[ubonjoe]

The 3 years is only for a condo lease.

You did not mention that in your post.

"in the purchase OR rental of a condo .... of no less than 3 years"

So being Thai language with no punctuation etc. It should read something like investing by purchasing a 10 mill in a condo . Renting a condo for 10 mill for a period of no less than 3 years.

Could be interesting as the sale price is always higher than what the Land Office values it at and if someone was collecting 10 million in rent then that would attract a tax me thinks

mmmmmm - rock and hard place

It will be purchase price for the extension.

The 10 million dose not have to be all in a condo. It can be mixed with money in the bank or government bonds also.

[INV]

I worried now that I stop my study 1okt and will apply for extension based on retirment insteed, but maybe they will ask me to get a new Non O visa?My so called Ed visa I have for 3 years and extented every 90 days.And of course no one will know this for sure until I stay in front of the officer in immigration. So if they say that, can I get a 7days extension so I get time to pack?

[Mario2008]

You should be able to get a retirement extension without a problem.

If denied, you can get a non-O visa in a neighboring country.

If denied, you can get an extra 7 days.

[INV]

Ty Mario. should is the keyword ,I cant take that chance as I have o to sell a lot of stuff If i dont get it so 7 days would also not be enough time and go to another country is no option. I think I start packing.Thanks Mario

[Mario2008]

Ty Mario. should is the keyword ,I cant take that chance as I have o to sell a lot of stuff If i dont get it so 7 days would also not be enough time and go to another country is no option. I think I start packing.Thanks Mario

I cannot predict what will actually happen, but others in a similar positions have gotten heir extensions without a problem.

[INV]

ok yes sounds good but this is one of the big issues with immigrations that each officer can interpret the rules differently.So I cant be sure until after 29 August when one other person done the same I will do in Pattaya and hope that next officer do they same way for me.Thanks again Mario

[ubonjoe]

I worried now that I stop my study 1okt and will apply for extension based on retirment insteed, but maybe they will ask me to get a new Non O visa?My so called Ed visa I have for 3 years and extented every 90 days.And of course no one will know this for sure until I stay in front of the officer in immigration. So if they say that, can I get a 7days extension so I get time to pack?

Many people have changed from extensions for attending a school to retirement without leaving the country. You will need to have the financial proof to do the change.

[INV]

Yes of course but I was thinking the new rules from 29 August and how they will look at my 3 year ed visa(well on90days extension in 3 years)I already had. if i wanted study longer I would need to leave the country but I will change to retirement and that is what I not sure how they do. And how can I bee sure of that until someone done it?After 29 Aug I guess. I know I worrie to much but I cant say its to much as its a lot at stake for me, so better to check all even if it can look little bit to much.Thank ubonjoe

[THAILIBAN]

Did anybody actually contact any Consulate (NOT embassy) abroad in the past few days/weeks, preferably in Europe, and ask them how all those new rules will affect how they will or are allowed to issue Visas in the future ? for example, it has been quite easy to obtain a non-O-multiple from many consulates in Europe, as long as you were 50+. Some have even easily issued such Visas to people under 50. The requirements always varied at each consulat, I know of one consulate were it was okay to just show 5K Euro in cash or a very recent bank account to obtain a non-multiple-0.

thanks in advance for sharing your experiences

[Mario2008]

The rule changes are for extensions of stay, not regarding visas itself.

Anyway, for large part the rules have remained the same or are even an improvement. Only for some categories the bar has been raised.

[ubonjoe]

Did anybody actually contact any Consulate (NOT embassy) abroad in the past few days/weeks, preferably in Europe, and ask them how all those new rules will affect how they will or are allowed to issue Visas in the future ? for example, it has been quite easy to obtain a non-O-multiple from many consulates in Europe, as long as you were 50+. Some have even easily issued such Visas to people under 50. The requirements always varied at each consulat, I know of one consulate were it was okay to just show 5K Euro in cash or a very recent bank account to obtain a non-multiple-0.

thanks in advance for sharing your experiences

None of these rule changes have anything to do with visas issued by an embassy or consulate they are only for extension of say.

[jcnbkk]

I just wonder, how long these rules stay in effect, and what's next.