What makes 'Thai-style democracy' globally palatable?

[BudRight]

Uh...chili sauce and wishful thinking?

[ramrod711]

My idea of "Thai style Democracy" is what we who live here saw from November to May.

M-79 rounds being fired into crowds of people, hand grenades being thrown at groups of people you didn't like, and violence in the streets. Crowds of people screaming, shooting at each other; that's what represented "Thai style Democracy" for 6 months.

All started by self-serving politicians for the own self-gratification and profit.

That went on daily until the Junta came in and stopped all that "Thai style Democracy" nonsense.

As far as I am concerned I much prefer the Junta than the "Thai style Democracy" I saw for those 6 months.

Sorry General I much prefer the order of the Junta than the disorder of those 6 months.

That's just my opinion, but I prefer the military rule than "Thai style Democracy: as we saw it then.

As my Thai wife said; "See I told you, it's always better when the army comes out"

As has been proved the previous 18 times, in fact it obviously works so well, they just keep on doing it...................

I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea of coups, there have been two since my arrival in Thailand (just a coincidence)and I was shocked at the first one. I don't know about it always being better, but I think it's better now than it was two months ago. Thaksin launched a well prepared plan to take over this country, appointing friends and relatives to positions of power in preparation for that eventuality. He used rural poor people as his army and in the most cynical fashion launched a rice scheme to pay them. Do I believe in democracy, absolutely, do I think that it can go wrong, be used for personal gains counter to the best goals for the country, obviously. If I could wish something for Thailand, it would be good governance, and this is the best I've seen so far.

[Eric Loh]

My idea of "Thai style Democracy" is what we who live here saw from November to May.

M-79 rounds being fired into crowds of people, hand grenades being thrown at groups of people you didn't like, and violence in the streets. Crowds of people screaming, shooting at each other; that's what represented "Thai style Democracy" for 6 months.

All started by self-serving politicians for the own self-gratification and profit.

That went on daily until the Junta came in and stopped all that "Thai style Democracy" nonsense.

As far as I am concerned I much prefer the Junta than the "Thai style Democracy" I saw for those 6 months.

Sorry General I much prefer the order of the Junta than the disorder of those 6 months.

That's just my opinion, but I prefer the military rule than "Thai style Democracy: as we saw it then.

As my Thai wife said; "See I told you, it's always better when the army comes out"

As has been proved the previous 18 times, in fact it obviously works so well, they just keep on doing it...................I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea of coups, there have been two since my arrival in Thailand (just a coincidence)and I was shocked at the first one. I don't know about it always being better, but I think it's better now than it was two months ago. Thaksin launched a well prepared plan to take over this country, appointing friends and relatives to positions of power in preparation for that eventuality. He used rural poor people as his army and in the most cynical fashion launched a rice scheme to pay them. Do I believe in democracy, absolutely, do I think that it can go wrong, be used for personal gains counter to the best goals for the country, obviously. If I could wish something for Thailand, it would be good governance, and this is the best I've seen so far.

Think you need to keep off the weeds. Even the locals will be laughing at such excessive exaggeration. A mere amnesty bill (not even a law) had 1+ million on the streets and a coup thereafter. Some may love Taksin but all Thais love the King.

By the way, there are 16 coups before the 2 you experienced. All said the same thing about bringing back happiness and reform. What mades this coup any different? I hope I am wrong but if you repeat the same thing 18 times over and hope to get a better result; as the saying goes..........

[heybruce]

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

You've got that wrong - democracy without the rule of law is worthless - that's what you see in Thailand.

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

"It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people."

You don't know a lot of history, do you?

I do.

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

[jayboy]

I am getting frustrated by the foolishness of those who query the wisdom of Thai style democracy.Of course it is the most perfect system of government as fair minded people must admit.However it is only a start.We must extend the concept to cover all facets of life - Thai style engineering, Thai style safety standards, Thai style road traffic discipline, Thai style air traffic control, Thai style science.....etc.These are the standards to which we should aspire - reflecting the respect and admiration the whole world shows to us.

[dahinni]

just google "Bilderberg" than you know what means democracy.

money elite doing the decisions

[mrmicbkktxl]

In a democratic country the army is doing what the government is saying and in a democratic country there are no laws what puts blue blooded people above the law..That's basic democracy.But here is southeast asia,clocks ticking different.In a normal country demonstrations ala Suthep would have ended after a few days,because police or army had stopped them.But here not possible because blue bloods,army and elite have no interest in a western like democracy

[rebeli]

And what is so good about democracy. You vote for some sick basterds and by the time they are elected in Parliament they do whatever they like and forget what they promised before, why people voted for them and what they promised before elections.

Democracy is just to keep the people quite and give them the illusion that their opinion matters.

Wel wake up your opinion does not matter in an western democratie.

[mrmicbkktxl]

And what is so good about democracy. You vote for some sick basterds and by the time they are elected in Parliament they do whatever they like and forget what they promised before, why people voted for them and what they promised before elections.

Democracy is just to keep the people quite and give them the illusion that their opinion matters.

Wel wake up your opinion does not matter in an western democratie.

In a democracy u can vote,here in thailand u can't.Next elections junta will decide who will rule in every changwat

[rebeli]

And what is so good about democracy. You vote for some sick basterds and by the time they are elected in Parliament they do whatever they like and forget what they promised before, why people voted for them and what they promised before elections.

Democracy is just to keep the people quite and give them the illusion that their opinion matters.

Wel wake up your opinion does not matter in an western democratie.

In a democracy u can vote,here in thailand u can't.Next elections junta will decide who will rule in every changwat

You can vote whatever you like it will not change what the government will do after the elections. Just a bunch of new people in Parliament and business as usual.

Wake up that what you vote will matter.

Edited August 14, 2014 by rebeli

[ginjag]

You've got that wrong - democracy without the rule of law is worthless - that's what you see in Thailand.

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

"It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people."

You don't know a lot of history, do you?

I do.

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

Your last government did even worse. Who needs history about coup's or PTP, we have moved on to much easier times, apart from the minority that still want to disrupt--and that applies to TVF minority.

So keep rattling on with your agenda you few guys, it is you that will get tired first.

[Thanet]

Only an idiot believes that democracy is important. It's an irrelevance - and far too many in the west have fallen for the lie.

What makes it even more shameful is that most westerners have convinced themselves they live in democracies - an idiotic stance, embarrassing to behold.

The only thing that matters in any society is the rule of law.

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

Look mate, you don't like this army (or any army) because it's not the done thing and mostly army controlled states are frowned upon that's life.

In reality, would you like PTP style of rule or the army----not forgetting PTP were elected. If you say PTP then you must have an agenda, because they were not governing democratically. Whatever you think of the Thai army it is ruling in a democratic way, it is dung clearing from the last regime in office.

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to short circuit that process, kicking out the elected government instead of allowing the people to make their rightful choice, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, will likely be just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. They have all their classmates in the NLA to attend to, and that won't come cheap. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Thanet

[tbthailand]

You've got that wrong - democracy without the rule of law is worthless - that's what you see in Thailand.

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

"It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people."

You don't know a lot of history, do you?

I do.

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

this is the world's first 'good' military dictatorship

[ginjag]

Only an idiot believes that democracy is important. It's an irrelevance - and far too many in the west have fallen for the lie.

What makes it even more shameful is that most westerners have convinced themselves they live in democracies - an idiotic stance, embarrassing to behold.

The only thing that matters in any society is the rule of law.

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

Look mate, you don't like this army (or any army) because it's not the done thing and mostly army controlled states are frowned upon that's life.

In reality, would you like PTP style of rule or the army----not forgetting PTP were elected. If you say PTP then you must have an agenda, because they were not governing democratically. Whatever you think of the Thai army it is ruling in a democratic way, it is dung clearing from the last regime in office.

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to kick out the government instead of the people, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, is just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

One of the gang homing in on an answer to another. Sorry you have to stick to this agenda--if you lot varied it a bit it wouldn't look so bad.

The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do, it proved also that it had the people bottled up-especially in Issan and won their vote. Now is different because as before the N/E were not aware /informed of the deeds / intent of the lousy governing, BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware. If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities.

The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history.

Your second paragraph is bull more than the first one.

Quote 'OLD MAN' So???? Quote "living in the bush" You mean UDON THANI-Jomptien are in the bush ??? I support who I want, not your business.

PTP without a coalition was not a majority.

Your recommendation to go home--crazy, Immigration can do that not YOU.

My silly recommendations ???? And you support a PTP-Shin regime, that governed against the kingdom -that was under oath remember.

Stick to your agenda, snapping at not PTP supporters comments and even this one resorting to personal attack. fly away and do not waste my time with your rhetoric.

Sorry you were disgraced and humiliated through bad governance, if there were ever a next time PTP if it governed properly may well stay in power.

[Publicus]

Only an idiot believes that democracy is important. It's an irrelevance - and far too many in the west have fallen for the lie.

What makes it even more shameful is that most westerners have convinced themselves they live in democracies - an idiotic stance, embarrassing to behold.

The only thing that matters in any society is the rule of law.

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

You've got that wrong - democracy without the rule of law is worthless - that's what you see in Thailand.

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

Military justice is to justice as military music is to music.

So I'd be interested in hearing the names of some of the composers of your justice and where I can find their assorted and palatable works.

[ginjag]

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

this is the world's first 'good' military dictatorship

In Thailand it doesn't matter who is in charge as long as they govern as sworn in to do so. PTP were elected sworn in to govern on oath and didn't govern democratically

Does it matter if it's the army--King Kong--Popeye, if the country in moving in the right direction, it wasn't for 3 years if it was tell me what they did to improve Thailand---silence on that--too touchy for your agenda to cope with.

[ginjag]

Only an idiot believes that democracy is important. It's an irrelevance - and far too many in the west have fallen for the lie.

What makes it even more shameful is that most westerners have convinced themselves they live in democracies - an idiotic stance, embarrassing to behold.

The only thing that matters in any society is the rule of law.

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

You've got that wrong - democracy without the rule of law is worthless - that's what you see in Thailand.

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

Military justice is to justice as military music is to music.

So I'd be interested in hearing the names of some of the composers of your justice and where I can find their assorted and palatable works.

Your back with the usual I see. Bolstering up the agenda clan. Something wrong with the headway Thailand is making under army control ??? leave out the Gagging / media bit, that is near all propaganda. Any answers on the headway-positive I mean ???

I can find little bits of the army governing a bit so so but most is sound and healthy. Was the PTP sound and healthy ??? after all they were elected.

[tbthailand]

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

this is the world's first 'good' military dictatorship

In Thailand it doesn't matter who is in charge as long as they govern as sworn in to do so. PTP were elected sworn in to govern on oath and didn't govern democratically

Does it matter if it's the army--King Kong--Popeye, if the country in moving in the right direction, it wasn't for 3 years if it was tell me what they did to improve Thailand---silence on that--too touchy for your agenda to cope with.

who says the country is being moved in the right direction? The people who elected the government? Ooops, not them.

The last government did not govern democratically? That is just nonsense. It is true that they were not allowed to correctly face the voters again when they called for an election - as the rules of the 2007 constitution dictated... but instead the anti-democratic forces jumped into action and now Thailand has military rule

And some of us think that it matters a great deal who governs. And some don't think that military dictatorships can 'govern democratically' - while that seems obvious ... it is apparently not obvious on THIS forum.

[heybruce]

"It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people."

You don't know a lot of history, do you?

I do.

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

Your last government did even worse. Who needs history about coup's or PTP, we have moved on to much easier times, apart from the minority that still want to disrupt--and that applies to TVF minority.

So keep rattling on with your agenda you few guys, it is you that will get tired first.

Worse that what? The last time a military coup was followed by the coup leader becoming Prime Minister was in 1992, when General/PM Suchinda was in charge, which lead to the "Black May" massacre when soldiers opened fire on unarmed students and protesters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suchinda_Kraprayoon.

You and Pattszero have dodged the issue; when has a military dictatorship ended well?

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

Right now we have a "dictatorship" which is apparently enacting the rule of law to a degree that is being celebrated.

It would be better for Thailand for the army to stay in power and deliver the rule of law to the people.

If that's what the General is proposing - I support it.

Military justice is to justice as military music is to music.

So I'd be interested in hearing the names of some of the composers of your justice and where I can find their assorted and palatable works.

Your back with the usual I see. Bolstering up the agenda clan. Something wrong with the headway Thailand is making under army control ??? leave out the Gagging / media bit, that is near all propaganda. Any answers on the headway-positive I mean ???

I can find little bits of the army governing a bit so so but most is sound and healthy. Was the PTP sound and healthy ??? after all they were elected.

The same goes for you.

The presumptive burden of dictatorship lies with those who advocate it. That is, you need to prove why you wrongheadedly believe dictatorship is superior to democracy. I don't have to prove anything to you about democracy vs dictatorship as the superiority of democracy is self-evident.

In the modern world, democracy is the standard, not dictatorship.

Thailand's problem is that it keeps swimming upstream, falling further back while doing it.

Thailand keeps trying but failing principally because they have never comprehended that two wrongs don't make a right.

[rubl]

IFor a moment while reading posts here I thought some confused a Military Dictatorship with the NCPO.

I guess I just need more coffee.

[heybruce]

Sorry mate. Rule of law is joined in the hip by democratic governance. Well unless you talk communism which is totally a different matter and not a subject of any consideration for Thailand or any where in the free world.

Look mate, you don't like this army (or any army) because it's not the done thing and mostly army controlled states are frowned upon that's life.

In reality, would you like PTP style of rule or the army----not forgetting PTP were elected. If you say PTP then you must have an agenda, because they were not governing democratically. Whatever you think of the Thai army it is ruling in a democratic way, it is dung clearing from the last regime in office.

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to kick out the government instead of the people, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, is just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

One of the gang homing in on an answer to another. Sorry you have to stick to this agenda--if you lot varied it a bit it wouldn't look so bad.

The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do, it proved also that it had the people bottled up-especially in Issan and won their vote. Now is different because as before the N/E were not aware /informed of the deeds / intent of the lousy governing, BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware. If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities.

The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history.

Your second paragraph is bull more than the first one.

Quote 'OLD MAN' So???? Quote "living in the bush" You mean UDON THANI-Jomptien are in the bush ??? I support who I want, not your business.

PTP without a coalition was not a majority.

Your recommendation to go home--crazy, Immigration can do that not YOU.

My silly recommendations ???? And you support a PTP-Shin regime, that governed against the kingdom -that was under oath remember.

Stick to your agenda, snapping at not PTP supporters comments and even this one resorting to personal attack. fly away and do not waste my time with your rhetoric.

Sorry you were disgraced and humiliated through bad governance, if there were ever a next time PTP if it governed properly may well stay in power.

"The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do.."

Really? How did they govern undemocratically? What did they do as undemocratic as a coup?

"BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware."

Do you think at all before you post? Are you stating that people were uninformed before the coup, but are somehow better informed now that the news is censored?

"If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities."

If that were true the Democrats would be clamoring for elections. But it's not true; if there had been no coup and elections had been held as schedule in July the PTP would have suffered a significant loss of support. If an election were held now the PTP would get a lot of votes in protest of the coup.

"The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history."

What do you think the coup did?

[Thanet]

Look mate, you don't like this army (or any army) because it's not the done thing and mostly army controlled states are frowned upon that's life.

In reality, would you like PTP style of rule or the army----not forgetting PTP were elected. If you say PTP then you must have an agenda, because they were not governing democratically. Whatever you think of the Thai army it is ruling in a democratic way, it is dung clearing from the last regime in office.

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to kick out the government instead of the people, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, is just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

One of the gang homing in on an answer to another. Sorry you have to stick to this agenda--if you lot varied it a bit it wouldn't look so bad.

The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do, it proved also that it had the people bottled up-especially in Issan and won their vote. Now is different because as before the N/E were not aware /informed of the deeds / intent of the lousy governing, BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware. If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities.

The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history.

Your second paragraph is bull more than the first one.

Quote 'OLD MAN' So???? Quote "living in the bush" You mean UDON THANI-Jomptien are in the bush ??? I support who I want, not your business.

PTP without a coalition was not a majority.

Your recommendation to go home--crazy, Immigration can do that not YOU.

My silly recommendations ???? And you support a PTP-Shin regime, that governed against the kingdom -that was under oath remember.

Stick to your agenda, snapping at not PTP supporters comments and even this one resorting to personal attack. fly away and do not waste my time with your rhetoric.

Sorry you were disgraced and humiliated through bad governance, if there were ever a next time PTP if it governed properly may well stay in power.

I'll try to distil your post into the core points that you are trying to make, in what is clearly not one of your more lucid moments.

1) Your statement "PTP "bottled up Isan and won their vote" That's very true, they won the vote and that's how governments get elected all over the free world.

2) Your statement "the N/E was not informed of intent of lousy governing" is based on a false premise. If what you say is true, about people being oblivious to TRT/PTP mistakes and wrongdoings, then why did PTP get re-elected so may times? Their purported incompetence was hardly a secret: The Internet pre-dates PTP, and anyone could read about their mistakes right back to the first TRT government. TRT had lots of detractors, but they had more supporters. That's what is called a democracy. They would have got chucked out legitimately had there been an opposition that appealed to the majority of the citizenry, which there clearly wasn't.

3) You stated that my second paragraph is bull, the one in which I pointed out that military rule has a poor record in the corruption department. Just look at all the cases in recent history- starting from Sarit lets say, upon whom Prayuth models himself. Once you've done that, please objectively explain to the forum why you so fawningly believe that this junta will be a nice one, and will be different from all those that have gone before it. Even if this Junta commits wrongdoings, with no free press how on earth will you find out about them?

4) Your statement "The army did NOT kick out the government" is plainly untrue. If the army didn't kick out the last government, then who did? Prayuth seized power, and was quite unabashed about admitting this. Doesn't your memory extend that far back?

And you can certainly go home if your vision of Thailand as a utopian military dictatorship doesn't work out, so it's easy for you to support a process that may well be irreversible.

[ginjag]

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

this is the world's first 'good' military dictatorship

In Thailand it doesn't matter who is in charge as long as they govern as sworn in to do so. PTP were elected sworn in to govern on oath and didn't govern democratically

Does it matter if it's the army--King Kong--Popeye, if the country in moving in the right direction, it wasn't for 3 years if it was tell me what they did to improve Thailand---silence on that--too touchy for your agenda to cope with.

who says the country is being moved in the right direction? The people who elected the government? Ooops, not them.

The last government did not govern democratically? That is just nonsense. It is true that they were not allowed to correctly face the voters again when they called for an election - as the rules of the 2007 constitution dictated... but instead the anti-democratic forces jumped into action and now Thailand has military rule

And some of us think that it matters a great deal who governs. And some don't think that military dictatorships can 'govern democratically' - while that seems obvious ... it is apparently not obvious on THIS forum.

I said the government is moving forward, because I have no agenda to stick to so I am free to say this.

PTP had 3 years---so what did they do ??? they wanted another 4 years to do same nothing ???? ridiculous.

It is obvious as things are getting sorted out and untwisted after your regime shot it's self in the foot. you still argue about that ???

If the government is being governed well, the Thais are quite happy, there won't be but an election tomorrow would shut the mouths of the few on here. Prayuth would win hands down that's how bad it is now

[ginjag]

Look mate, you don't like this army (or any army) because it's not the done thing and mostly army controlled states are frowned upon that's life.

In reality, would you like PTP style of rule or the army----not forgetting PTP were elected. If you say PTP then you must have an agenda, because they were not governing democratically. Whatever you think of the Thai army it is ruling in a democratic way, it is dung clearing from the last regime in office.

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to kick out the government instead of the people, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, is just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

One of the gang homing in on an answer to another. Sorry you have to stick to this agenda--if you lot varied it a bit it wouldn't look so bad.

The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do, it proved also that it had the people bottled up-especially in Issan and won their vote. Now is different because as before the N/E were not aware /informed of the deeds / intent of the lousy governing, BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware. If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities.

The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history.

Your second paragraph is bull more than the first one.

Quote 'OLD MAN' So???? Quote "living in the bush" You mean UDON THANI-Jomptien are in the bush ??? I support who I want, not your business.

PTP without a coalition was not a majority.

Your recommendation to go home--crazy, Immigration can do that not YOU.

My silly recommendations ???? And you support a PTP-Shin regime, that governed against the kingdom -that was under oath remember.

Stick to your agenda, snapping at not PTP supporters comments and even this one resorting to personal attack. fly away and do not waste my time with your rhetoric.

Sorry you were disgraced and humiliated through bad governance, if there were ever a next time PTP if it governed properly may well stay in power.

I'll try to distil your post into the core points that you are trying to make, in what is clearly not one of your more lucid moments.

1) Your statement "PTP "bottled up Isan and won their vote" That's very true, they won the vote and that's how governments get elected all over the free world.

2) Your statement "the N/E was not informed of intent of lousy governing" is based on a false premise. If what you say is true, about people being oblivious to TRT/PTP mistakes and wrongdoings, then why did PTP get re-elected so may times? Their purported incompetence was hardly a secret: The Internet pre-dates PTP, and anyone could read about their mistakes right back to the first TRT government. TRT had lots of detractors, but they had more supporters. That's what is called a democracy. They would have got chucked out legitimately had there been an opposition that appealed to the majority of the citizenry, which there clearly wasn't.

3) You stated that my second paragraph is bull, the one in which I pointed out that military rule has a poor record in the corruption department. Just look at all the cases in recent history- starting from Sarit lets say, upon whom Prayuth models himself. Once you've done that, please objectively explain to the forum why you so fawningly believe that this junta will be a nice one, and will be different from all those that have gone before it. Even if this Junta commits wrongdoings, with no free press how on earth will you find out about them?

4) Your statement "The army did NOT kick out the government" is plainly untrue. If the army didn't kick out the last government, then who did? Prayuth seized power, and was quite unabashed about admitting this. Doesn't your memory extend that far back?

And you can certainly go home if your vision of Thailand as a utopian military dictatorship doesn't work out, so it's easy for you to support a process that may well be irreversible.

1. true.

2. Not talking about past election results-----how many times have the ruling party been banned ??? how many of it's members have been banned?? How many times has the party been slung out ??? we are talking Thaksin here.

3 Past military interventions were near for the same reasons.

4 Look up what Yingluck did, she what ???

5 I will be here, carry on with your rhetoric/agenda and your stay could well be shorter than mine. Huddle up close to the 7 of you who are the strongest and get energized.

[ginjag]

But the last regime was elected, and they could have been chucked out by the citizenry. They probably would have been once the citizenry got tired of their incompetent ways, just like any government, anywhere, that has been in power too long. What gives the army the right to kick out the government instead of the people, installing a military dictatorship and violating constitutional law in the process?

History has shown that the army, once it consolidates its despotic rule, is just as corrupt as the PTP or any other government. This time though, you probably won't read about it in the papers, or see it on Thai television, because the media are no longer allowed to criticise the government. At least you could form your opinion that PTP was 'dung'. How will you form opinions now on the performance of this lot???

And while we are on the subject of rights, what gives you, an old man living in the bush who is not even a Thai citizen, the right to support the overrule of the Thai majority? You can always go back to your home country if things turn bad here and your silly recommendations on how Thailand is better off under the rule of tyrrany fail to work out in practice.

One of the gang homing in on an answer to another. Sorry you have to stick to this agenda--if you lot varied it a bit it wouldn't look so bad.

The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do, it proved also that it had the people bottled up-especially in Issan and won their vote. Now is different because as before the N/E were not aware /informed of the deeds / intent of the lousy governing, BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware. If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities.

The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history.

Your second paragraph is bull more than the first one.

Quote 'OLD MAN' So???? Quote "living in the bush" You mean UDON THANI-Jomptien are in the bush ??? I support who I want, not your business.

PTP without a coalition was not a majority.

Your recommendation to go home--crazy, Immigration can do that not YOU.

My silly recommendations ???? And you support a PTP-Shin regime, that governed against the kingdom -that was under oath remember.

Stick to your agenda, snapping at not PTP supporters comments and even this one resorting to personal attack. fly away and do not waste my time with your rhetoric.

Sorry you were disgraced and humiliated through bad governance, if there were ever a next time PTP if it governed properly may well stay in power.

"The last elected regime were NOT governing democratically as elected to do.."

Really? How did they govern undemocratically? What did they do as undemocratic as a coup?

"BUT now people are informed through the media--internet they are aware."

Do you think at all before you post? Are you stating that people were uninformed before the coup, but are somehow better informed now that the news is censored?

"If elections were called next week PTP would never hardly get a look in especially now the army are making inroads into so much corruption/irregularities."

If that were true the Democrats would be clamoring for elections. But it's not true; if there had been no coup and elections had been held as schedule in July the PTP would have suffered a significant loss of support. If an election were held now the PTP would get a lot of votes in protest of the coup.

"The army did NOT kick out the government, so you learn the short history."

What do you think the coup did?

If you think for a minute I am going to get into a wind up with your clan-mistaken, you know who you are, why not have 1 spokesperson ???

Why did I say this ??? look at my original post and who homed in on it ??? and all have the exact rhetoric, near word for word--coincidence ??

This is basically because I dismiss Thai style democracy--PTP =I learned from them it was not the democracy I knew. Secondly now they are on the scrap heap I welcomed the clean up. NO FRILLS about the past either way---just reality now, we are moving forward.

I hate the price rises--the roads--the corruption at all levels--police as was--- but the army had no control over the last 3 years.

[Thanet]

1. true.

2. Not talking about past election results-----how many times have the ruling party been banned ??? how many of it's members have been banned?? How many times has the party been slung out ??? we are talking Thaksin here.

3 Past military interventions were near for the same reasons.

4 Look up what Yingluck did, she what ???

5 I will be here, carry on with your rhetoric/agenda and your stay could well be shorter than mine. Huddle up close to the 7 of you who are the strongest and get energized.

You still haven't explained why you need to base your arguments on falsehoods:

1) Why did you tell me that the army did not kick out the last government, when they quite clearly did? Why do you need to put this falsehood forward to support your position?

2) Did you research past military dictatorships in Thailand yet? What reasons did they give to overthrow civilian rule? Did these past military dictatorships turn out to be clean or corrupt? Why are you clinging to a falsehood that causes you to so vigorously refute any legitimate doubt as to why this one will be any different? If the junta is at ease with itself and its noble motives, then why are the majority of the NLA from the military, and why do they need to censor the press?

On that last point in particular, there is still perplexity around why you seem to trust unconditionally a military dictatorship that will censor news of what it does before it ever reaches you. Why do you think it needs to do that, and how will you be able to reasonably compare it with what it replaced?

Of course, I forgot, you can go home if it doesn't work out. It's easy to support the risky and irreversible course when it's someone else's country, right?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Thanet

[ginjag]

1. true.

2. Not talking about past election results-----how many times have the ruling party been banned ??? how many of it's members have been banned?? How many times has the party been slung out ??? we are talking Thaksin here.

3 Past military interventions were near for the same reasons.

4 Look up what Yingluck did, she what ???

5 I will be here, carry on with your rhetoric/agenda and your stay could well be shorter than mine. Huddle up close to the 7 of you who are the strongest and get energized.

You still haven't explained why you need to base your arguments on falsehoods:

1) Why did you tell me that the army did not kick out the last government, when they quite clearly did? Why do you need to put this falsehood forward to support your position?

2) Did you research past military dictatorships in Thailand yet? What reasons did they give to overthrow civilian rule? Did these past military dictatorships turn out to be clean or corrupt? Why are you clinging to a falsehood that causes you to so vigorously refute any legitimate doubt as to why this one will be any different? If the junta is at ease with itself and its noble motives, then why are the majority of the NLA from the military, and why do they need to censor the press?

On that last point in particular, there is still perplexity around why you seem to trust unconditionally a military dictatorship that will censor news of what it does before it ever reaches you. Why do you think it needs to do that, and how will you be able to reasonably compare it with what it replaced?

Of course, I forgot, you can go home if it doesn't work out. It's easy to support the risky and irreversible course when it's someone else's country, right?

You know what stands out a mile with you lot on this thread---you all follow the same rhetoric, and seldom do you speak about the wrongs of your defunct government. If you included some once in a while it's worth talking -but I have said before you lot are a waste of time. same as PTP was.

[Eric Loh]

1. true.

2. Not talking about past election results-----how many times have the ruling party been banned ??? how many of it's members have been banned?? How many times has the party been slung out ??? we are talking Thaksin here.

3 Past military interventions were near for the same reasons.

4 Look up what Yingluck did, she what ???

5 I will be here, carry on with your rhetoric/agenda and your stay could well be shorter than mine. Huddle up close to the 7 of you who are the strongest and get energized.

You still haven't explained why you need to base your arguments on falsehoods:

1) Why did you tell me that the army did not kick out the last government, when they quite clearly did? Why do you need to put this falsehood forward to support your position?

2) Did you research past military dictatorships in Thailand yet? What reasons did they give to overthrow civilian rule? Did these past military dictatorships turn out to be clean or corrupt? Why are you clinging to a falsehood that causes you to so vigorously refute any legitimate doubt as to why this one will be any different? If the junta is at ease with itself and its noble motives, then why are the majority of the NLA from the military, and why do they need to censor the press?

On that last point in particular, there is still perplexity around why you seem to trust unconditionally a military dictatorship that will censor news of what it does before it ever reaches you. Why do you think it needs to do that, and how will you be able to reasonably compare it with what it replaced?

Of course, I forgot, you can go home if it doesn't work out. It's easy to support the risky and irreversible course when it's someone else's country, right?

You know what stands out a mile with you lot on this thread---you all follow the same rhetoric, and seldom do you speak about the wrongs of your defunct government. If you included some once in a while it's worth talking -but I have said before you lot are a waste of time. same as PTP was.

Even if the previous government is useless, wrong and not worthy by your standard, they are answerable to the people and no justification for the military to intervene. The previous government erred in their amnesty push and questionable rice scheme and they pay the price by having to dissolve Parliment and leave it to the people to decide their fate. That's the right thing to do by giving power back to the people. Unfortunately we have the PDRC who have a different agenda that include a military intervention.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Oh good, so you can give us examples of military dictatorships that ended well.

this is the world's first 'good' military dictatorship

Julius Caesar did a pretty good job (allegedly), and Attila the Hun, not to mention Alexander the Great.

(They all looked promising, but sadly didn't end well)

Edited August 14, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican