QROPS - who to use?

[rgs2001uk]

The IFA aint there to explain, he is there to feather his nest and take his commission.

That's simply not true, we've always had the choice to pay commission, an hourly charge or a flat fee to an IFA. If you don't trust your IFA choose the second or third option, actually, if you don't trust them you shouldn't be doing business with the in the first place.

Thanks for bringing me to date on current legislation.

I dont have anything to do with IFAs, never have and never will.

Reading some of the comments on here, makes me wonder just how many are prepared for retirement, for me its a good few years away.

Any pensions I may or not get are viewed as nothing more than a bonus, I made alternative plans.

Too be perfectly frank anyone worrying about two thousand pounds a year probably isnt the best of shape, not that its any fault of their own making.

I have survived, housing price crashes, stock market crashes and exchange rate crashes, I do realise not everyone will have been so lucky.

For the life of me I have never understood those whose retirement plan is, contribute to the company pension scheme and pay off the mortgage, then spend the rest, best of luck to them, not a situation I would be comfortable with.

[Captbonio]

I think this topic has just about run itself to its logical conclusion, and thanks for all who participated.

Personally, I am most grateful to have seen the fanatastic array of responses, which would appear to come from a fairly wide range of people in different stages in life. Clearly it is a subject that most can get quite emotional about, especially when they see possibly tragic mistakes being made over and over again.

Having read some other forums on this and other sites, I am only too aware of some participation comes from bitter, angry or just plain bored people, but in this topic i think everyone was honest and reasonable in their contributions.

What I have taken from this is that there is no rush to get into QROPS, for all the reasons mentioned earlier. It is dependant on UK tax law, personal circumstances and pension value and of course the effectiveness, efficiency and honesty of the QROPS providers.

What I have decided to do following off these very useful exchanges of ideas, is to take total control of my pension under a SIPP umbrella, which I had been planing to do originally, and when I make the move next year to Thailand, take what cash I need out of it up until the 25% tax limit is used, then take £10k a year or whatever the threshold is come the day. As stated, if for some reason more is needed the next tax band is not too horrendous though its does balance against the tax free/high risk/high fees of QROPS.

Maybe some day in the future I can move it Offshore, but not until it is economic to do so.

What strikes me having read the replies is that there are some seriously smart people on here whos knowledge, experience and ability to make the subject easy to understand should be used in a more profitable way. I know (again from reading here) that we are not allowed to work in the financial iindustry, but I reckon there is the makings of a team which could make a very good company. Food for thought eh chaps ?

[rak sa_ngop]

Just to finish up with my situation, I just talked to my pension company in the UK. Taking the 25 pc tax free option works, but if I would have to transfer the remainder to the companies annuity fund and draw a yearly pension. This is unlikely to change with the new regulations.

This leaves the option to transfer the 75 pc remainder to another investment vehicle that will allow draw-down (10,000 GBP a year to avoid/evade tax until I draw a state pension)

Yes, my financial advisors will make money on the transfer. Yes I will be buying into a fund that I will be selling within 5 years.

But my financial advisors have been in the business for over 100 years and did not design their website in Pattaya.

[Captbonio]

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Just to finish up with my situation, I just talked to my pension company in the UK. Taking the 25 pc tax free option works, but if I would have to transfer the remainder to the companies annuity fund and draw a yearly pension. This is unlikely to change with the new regulations.

This leaves the option to transfer the 75 pc remainder to another investment vehicle that will allow draw-down (10,000 GBP a year to avoid/evade tax until I draw a state pension)

Yes, my financial advisors will make money on the transfer. Yes I will be buying into a fund that I will be selling within 5 years.

But my financial advisors have been in the business for over 100 years and did not design their website in Pattaya.

Yes, understood.

I am effectively doing the same now, but going to leave it in the UK as a SIPP and use the drawdown facility, which seems fairly straight forward. After listening to all on this forum, I have decided to leave it in the UK for now , until all becomes clearer. There is no rush to have to make any decision after all. One point I would mention to you given that you are satisfied with your FA is that what they probably have made transparent to you is their upfront and running fees but have not mentioned what they get from the plan providers. Since I learned about this practice here, i have questioned the 2 companies vying for my potential QROPS business, and neither answered the question when it came to this point which only reinforces that it is going on. It doesnt effect you directly, because you will see your return each year nett of all fees so you might just think..3% return.. ok fine.. but in reality it might be a lot higher with them having to kick back to the FA's

I have been managing my own Funds for some time since SIPP's started and it does take a huge amount of time sifting thorough all the different ones, even if you have a good idea which particular type of investment you feel is right. It is a mine field but not impossible even for the layman. The majority of people leave it to professionals to do and of course they deservedly should be paid for that especially if they actually pick the correct ones and make you money each year. A good FA is worth his weight in gold so to speak. Personally I only use FA's for help in setting up the financial vehicle I think I want to be in, and I pick the investments.

Good luck with yours and thanks for your contributions to my questions.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just to finish up with my situation, I just talked to my pension company in the UK. Taking the 25 pc tax free option works, but if I would have to transfer the remainder to the companies annuity fund and draw a yearly pension. This is unlikely to change with the new regulations.

This leaves the option to transfer the 75 pc remainder to another investment vehicle that will allow draw-down (10,000 GBP a year to avoid/evade tax until I draw a state pension)

Yes, my financial advisors will make money on the transfer. Yes I will be buying into a fund that I will be selling within 5 years.

But my financial advisors have been in the business for over 100 years and did not design their website in Pattaya.

Private pension

No need for an IFA, 25% tax free then just transfer to Hargreaves Lansdown yourself.

No commissions paid, so no loss.

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

[AyG]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

Do you really believe that?

Next you will be telling us bank execs won't be taking gigantic bonus.

Amazing that some people on these forums make gigantic pension mistakes, then claim they did the best thing.

You were taken in by a dodgy IFA offering a loss making QROP.

Yep, we all get that.

No point in trying to draw someone else into similar losses though, that's inexcusable.

What sort of person does that?

Edited August 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[GuestHouse]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

Let us be very clear - IFAs operating in Thailand (even as visiting advisors) are not covered by the UK Laws governing their fees or practices - neither are investments made through IFAs in Thailand protected by the UK financial services laws.

That is not to say that all IFA's operating in Thailand are crooks/fraudsters - many are, some may not be - but if they are and anyone is foolish enough to have invested with them, there is practically nothing to they can do to get their money back.

Once again for the record - I do not now, nor have I ever worked in the financial services industry.

I wonder how many participating in this discussion can say that - and say it truthfully?!

[AyG]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

Let us be very clear - IFAs operating in Thailand (even as visiting advisors) are not covered by the UK Laws governing their fees or practices - neither are investments made through IFAs in Thailand protected by the UK financial services laws.

That is not to say that all IFA's operating in Thailand are crooks/fraudsters - many are, some may not be - but if they are and anyone is foolish enough to have invested with them, there is practically nothing to they can do to get their money back.

Once again for the record - I do not now, nor have I ever worked in the financial services industry.

I wonder how many participating in this discussion can say that - and say it truthfully?!

And let us also be very clear that I specifically wrote "UK IFAs". There's no such thing as an IFA in Thailand - only (dodgy) Financial Advisers.

[Captbonio]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

Let us be very clear - IFAs operating in Thailand (even as visiting advisors) are not covered by the UK Laws governing their fees or practices - neither are investments made through IFAs in Thailand protected by the UK financial services laws.

That is not to say that all IFA's operating in Thailand are crooks/fraudsters - many are, some may not be - but if they are and anyone is foolish enough to have invested with them, there is practically nothing to they can do to get their money back.

Once again for the record - I do not now, nor have I ever worked in the financial services industry.

I wonder how many participating in this discussion can say that - and say it truthfully?!

And let us also be very clear that I specifically wrote "UK IFAs". There's no such thing as an IFA in Thailand - only (dodgy) Financial Advisers.

I think there has been an element of confusion throught this Forum regarding financial advisors

I think we can all agree that UK IFA's are generally ok, and those in Thailand are not

So for the sake of ease now use the term IFA for a uk based advisor, and DFA for an offshore one... thats D for Dodgy...

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think we can all agree that UK IFA's are generally ok, and those in Thailand are not

My British pal has had 3 IFAs in his life.

1 in Oxford, mis-sold him a pension, losing him 4kGBP (100% commission), complained and the company transferred it to the correct product.

1 in London (big company), got him to transfer a company pension to a private pension, he was awarded 30kGBP damages.

1 in ChiangMai, transfer to IoM company (Friends Provident International), where he lost 40kGBP.

That's a 100%, fail for IFAs, for him anyway.

[Captbonio]

I think we can all agree that UK IFA's are generally ok, and those in Thailand are not

My British pal has had 3 IFAs in his life.

1 in Oxford, mis-sold him a pension, losing him 4kGBP (100% commission), complained and the company transferred it to the correct product.

1 in London (big company), got him to transfer a company pension to a private pension, he was awarded 30kGBP damages.

1 in ChiangMai, transfer to IoM company (Friends Provident International), where he lost 40kGBP.

That's a 100%, fail for IFAs, for him anyway.

Ive had 3 IFA's only.. all UK based

1 ive know a long time.. honest in his dealings, but not as knowledgeable as i would have liked... still overall a great help

the second very knowledgeable but his product suite not suitable for my purposes

and the third, clearly only in it for the short term as he fast tracked a lot of poeple into not the best schemes. I rumbled him pretty quick

So 2/3 I would say were fine..Maybe I am more accomodating than you as I can generally see when there is something untoward going on...I suppose a lot cant...

[Captbonio]

I think we can all agree that UK IFA's are generally ok, and those in Thailand are not

My British pal has had 3 IFAs in his life.

1 in Oxford, mis-sold him a pension, losing him 4kGBP (100% commission), complained and the company transferred it to the correct product.

1 in London (big company), got him to transfer a company pension to a private pension, he was awarded 30kGBP damages.

1 in ChiangMai, transfer to IoM company (Friends Provident International), where he lost 40kGBP.

That's a 100%, fail for IFAs, for him anyway.

Ive had 3 IFA's only.. all UK based

1 ive know a long time.. honest in his dealings, but not as knowledgeable as i would have liked... still overall a great help

the second very knowledgeable but his product suite not suitable for my purposes

and the third, clearly only in it for the short term as he fast tracked a lot of poeple into not the best schemes. I rumbled him pretty quick

So 2/3 I would say were fine..Maybe I am more accomodating than you as I can generally see when there is something untoward going on...I suppose a lot cant...

Friends Provident have come up a lot recently... ONE TO AVOID.....

[rgs2001uk]

Your IFA will transfer you to the company that pays them the biggest commission, even if they're useless.

That's what IFAs do.

Ill-informed nonsense. IFAs can no longer be paid by commission following the Retail Distribution Review. All UK IFAs are now paid on a fixed price basis - no commission.

Let us be very clear - IFAs operating in Thailand (even as visiting advisors) are not covered by the UK Laws governing their fees or practices - neither are investments made through IFAs in Thailand protected by the UK financial services laws.

That is not to say that all IFA's operating in Thailand are crooks/fraudsters - many are, some may not be - but if they are and anyone is foolish enough to have invested with them, there is practically nothing to they can do to get their money back.

Once again for the record - I do not now, nor have I ever worked in the financial services industry.

I wonder how many participating in this discussion can say that - and say it truthfully?!

I hold my hand up and say, I am in no way connected to or give references for ANY service provider.

I am smart enough to know I am dumb.

I do not touch, Ostrich Farms, Gold, Vintage Wine, obscure malt Whisky, Jumping Beans or Brazilian real estate.

My portfolio consists of, property, investment trusts and FTSE 100 company stocks.

I use an independant stockbroker that has been around for 100 years.

[fletchsmile]

One thing worth bearing in mind: for new contributions if you're still working + paying tax in Thailand you may want to check out Retirement Mutual Fund RMFs and (LTFs) in Thailand, which can be bought from reputable firms such as Aberdeen, UOB and these days feeder funds via KSAM, KTAM.

One of the massive advantages a Thai RMF has over a UK SIPP is that when you're 55 you can take out the whole amount tax free. LTFs which are more limited in investment scope than RMFs but can be taken out after just 5 calendar years. Both RMFs and LTFS attract tax relief at your marginal rate in the same way as a SIPP back in the UK.

While they obviously don't address the historic pots you've built up and the QROPs question, for some people they may find it better to channel new money and new contributions into Thai RMFs or LTFs

Personally I dislike all the inflexibility, moving goal posts, can't get at my money and complicated tax situations with UK pensions, which is one reason when I left I stopped adding to UK pensions. For the pensions I have left in the UK, they're either in a company defined benefit scheme or SIPP. Neither would suit me for transferring to QROPS. For those who are younger it obviously raises the question of why get yourself into the SIPP/QROPs situation in the first place if their might be better opportunities afforded to you as an expat elsewhere.

Cheers

Fletch

[rgs2001uk]

One thing worth bearing in mind: for new contributions if you're still working + paying tax in Thailand you may want to check out Retirement Mutual Fund RMFs and (LTFs) in Thailand, which can be bought from reputable firms such as Aberdeen, UOB and these days feeder funds via KSAM, KTAM.

One of the massive advantages a Thai RMF has over a UK SIPP is that when you're 55 you can take out the whole amount tax free. LTFs which are more limited in investment scope than RMFs but can be taken out after just 5 calendar years. Both RMFs and LTFS attract tax relief at your marginal rate in the same way as a SIPP back in the UK.

While they obviously don't address the historic pots you've built up and the QROPs question, for some people they may find it better to channel new money and new contributions into Thai RMFs or LTFs

Personally I dislike all the inflexibility, moving goal posts, can't get at my money and complicated tax situations with UK pensions, which is one reason when I left I stopped adding to UK pensions. For the pensions I have left in the UK, they're either in a company defined benefit scheme or SIPP. Neither would suit me for transferring to QROPS. For those who are younger it obviously raises the question of why get yourself into the SIPP/QROPs situation in the first place if their might be better opportunities afforded to you as an expat elsewhere.

Cheers

Fletch

Ah, the king of Thai stocks appears, and we bow down to his knowledge (no offence intended, probably one of the most savvy posters on here).

Correct me if I am wrong, RMF, cant be touched until reaching 55?

LTFs, thought they were being done away with?

[liddelljohn]

I had to take an IFA in UK to court a few years ago when he sold me 2 plans in 2 well known british insurance companies that swallowed up 60% of my capital in 6 years .. I won back my £62,000 investment and damages with interest on top ,, both plans were total ripoffs ,, hidden charges and stuctured so that they would never make a return , and the same well know companies are still selling such crap .

now I do all my own investements , stocks mainly and investment trusts , a few spread bets on Gold or certain stocks that i follow plus physical gold and cash .low cost and cant be ripped off , yes i make some mistakes ,

QROPS are only really suitable for big pension pots .

[fletchsmile]

I did post a little earlier but on QROPs most had already been said . Yes there's a chance any new LTFs will be stopped in 2016. Not finalised yet.

I believe RMFs can be touched before 55 - you just yield back the tax benefit - again a superior feature to a UK SIPP - at least you can get it if wanted or needed it. If you leave to 55 tho' you can get it all tax free from an RMF. Also when I left a previous company in Thailand I was also able to take the proceeds from the money contribution scheme - both employer and employee - although suffered some tax - again a nice option.

While LTFs are largely Thai equities, I now have International equities, Thai equities, Gold ETF and fixed income in RMFs. Simply cashed in some other funds and park the proceeds in a similar RMF funds to get the tax relief.

For someone temporarily working in Thailand you could park funds in these vehicles and then once the proceeds come up park them in a UK SIPP if you happen to return to the UK and effectively get UK tax relief on top of the Thai tax relief you've had. Highly feasible with an LTF, you'd have to draw your SIPP later past 55 though for an RMF

Cheers

Fletch

[chiang mai]

I'd do that, if only I understood what you said!

[GuestHouse]

I had to take an IFA in UK to court a few years ago when he sold me 2 plans in 2 well known british insurance companies that swallowed up 60% of my capital in 6 years .. I won back my £62,000 investment and damages with interest on top ,, both plans were total ripoffs ,, hidden charges and stuctured so that they would never make a return , and the same well know companies are still selling such crap .

now I do all my own investements , stocks mainly and investment trusts , a few spread bets on Gold or certain stocks that i follow plus physical gold and cash .low cost and cant be ripped off , yes i make some mistakes ,

QROPS are only really suitable for big pension pots .

Thank you for sharing your experience and I am sorry to hear that you had such problems.

But - On a positive note, you were able to obtain some redress in a court of law - Something anyone investing via a Thailand based IFA (Carpet Bagger) can only dream of.

[fletchsmile]

On UK pensions let's not forget the Equitable Life debacle. Plenty of info on the web on how ineffective the proceedings were, legal, compensation etc

It took them well over a decade to sort it out, and the government, ombudsman, regulators etc were all severely lacking. My father passed away before he got his compensation. As such his case was one of the "priority" ones. My mother got hers a few months after him. I got my compensation about a year later.

They calculated the loss suffered to us and paid out around 22% of the loss suffered! To everyone across the board. After well over 10 years!

So be very careful of assumptions that UK pensions are "well protected". Yes there is some protection, but it's all relative, and they are by no means fail safe.

Pays to spread your money around, and I prefer access to it on my terms

Cheers

Fletch

[GuestHouse]

On UK pensions let's not forget the Equitable Life debacle. Plenty of info on the web on how ineffective the proceedings were, legal, compensation etc

It took them well over a decade to sort it out, and the government, ombudsman, regulators etc were all severely lacking. My father passed away before he got his compensation. As such his case was one of the "priority" ones. My mother got hers a few months after him. I got my compensation about a year later.

They calculated the loss suffered to us and paid out around 22% of the loss suffered! To everyone across the board. After well over 10 years!

So be very careful of assumptions that UK pensions are "well protected". Yes there is some protection, but it's all relative, and they are by no means fail safe.

Pays to spread your money around, and I prefer access to it on my terms

Cheers

Fletch

You are correct, Equitable Life was a debacle and it did take many investors years to recover their funds, but there are some important points to note:

• Funds where recovered
• The laws around pension regulation have been toughened since Equitable Life
• Equitable Life was a Private Pension fund, not a Company Pension Fund (which have far more legal protections - including the Pension Fund Protection Scheme)

Yes it absolutely pays to spread our money around - but it would be crass stupidity to remove savings from the protection of the UK pension market into the hands of Thailand based IFAs (Carpet Baggers) on the grounds of 'security'.

[fletchsmile]

On UK pensions let's not forget the Equitable Life debacle. Plenty of info on the web on how ineffective the proceedings were, legal, compensation etc

It took them well over a decade to sort it out, and the government, ombudsman, regulators etc were all severely lacking. My father passed away before he got his compensation. As such his case was one of the "priority" ones. My mother got hers a few months after him. I got my compensation about a year later.

They calculated the loss suffered to us and paid out around 22% of the loss suffered! To everyone across the board. After well over 10 years!

So be very careful of assumptions that UK pensions are "well protected". Yes there is some protection, but it's all relative, and they are by no means fail safe.

Pays to spread your money around, and I prefer access to it on my terms

Cheers

Fletch

You are correct, Equitable Life was a debacle and it did take many investors years to recover their funds, but there are some important points to note:

• Funds where recovered
• The laws around pension regulation have been toughened since Equitable Life
• Equitable Life was a Private Pension fund, not a Company Pension Fund (which have far more legal protections - including the Pension Fund Protection Scheme)

Yes it absolutely pays to spread our money around - but it would be crass stupidity to remove savings from the protection of the UK pension market into the hands of Thailand based IFAs (Carpet Baggers) on the grounds of 'security'.

Yes some funds were recovered. As I say 22% of losses after a decade or so

That's 78% of the loss not recovered. Not to mention the opportunity cost on top of that.

There's some damning reading including, the report entitle "A decade of regulatory failure..."

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/reports-and-consultations/reports/parliamentary/equitable-life-a-decade-of-regulatory-failure-pt-1

I minimised my opportunity losses by moving my Equitable Life funds to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP to add to the other pensions I had already with them. Let's not forget also that that a SIPP is a private pension fund arrangement though. While I think very highly of HL and have recommended people to check them out for 20 years+, nothing is 100% safe. So it definitely pays to spread your financial/pension arrangements, and if your pension is a vital asset seriously consider what you would do if it was lost, and then whether you should have alternatives.

While things have improved there are and always will be gaps foreseen or otherwise

Worth noting, that in fairness, in addition to the myriad of "carpetbaggers" here, there are some very knowledgeable people on pensions and investments based in Thailand, as well as regulated. Unfortunately most expats don't have the experience to sort the wheat from the chaff, as we all have strengths and weaknesses in different fields. Even among the knowledgeable Thai advisors though, they often put their own interests before yours, particularly on commissions. It's sort of ironic that often by the stage you can sort the decent ones out, you no longer need them in the first place

Also worth noting that UK financial providers and advisors are not always as knowledgeable on actual expat lifestyles/needs, and the massive variety of options outside their own shores.

On balance if you don't know what you're doing the odds are in your favour for leaving things in the UK. Ideal is to educate yourself and diversify, then its horses for courses...

Cheers

Fletch

Edited August 20, 2014 by fletchsmile

[rgs2001uk]

For the uninformed out there be aware of the incestous practices carried out in the UK by some of the so called "Wealth Management" companies.

Barclays anyone?

I read a friends portfolio and couldnt believe what i was reading, he didnt know the difference between a discretionary and non discretionary account.

Too cut a long stort short, Barclays had bought out a firm of stockbrokers and used it as nothing more than a "front" to peddle their own wares.

I told said friend bring a print out of your latest portfolio update to the rugby club next Saturday and you are buying the beers.

My stockbroker sat with a red pen pen and circled more than half of the transactions and wrote WHY against them all.

Said friend was told to switch to a non discretionary account tout suite with a view to switching his funds elsewhere.

Such is life in the UK for expats who dont keep an eye on things.

[JolyonB]

I too am considering transferring my SIPP to a QROP. I see many negative comments about QROPS but the fact is:

Hargreaves Lansdowne and Fidelity will not open a SIPP for non-residents. I have checked many times. If you have not informed them you are non-resident that is another matter. If you have an existing SIPP and a UK address, they may overlook it, but there may be risks in that.

A Gibraltar based QROP can be paid less 2.5% tax, accumulated offshore and remitted to Thailand in the following tax year without a further tax charge. At least at the moment.

The total can be invested a portfolio bond offering the new low cost “clean” funds with annual management charges around 0.75%. Same as the UK.

Most of the front end fees on major investment houses which a conservative investor might wish to use are discounted to nil except First State and Cazenove 0.25%.

Yes there are some transaction charges but not excessive.

I am hard put to say what the disadvantages are.

An establishment charge of 0.435% over 8 years which is really a front end fee of 3.5%. As Wordchild says, find a UK IFA who will do it on a fee basis: the only problem is the small IFA’s know nothing and the large ones all operate on a commission basis. If anyone know an IFA who will charge on a time basis, please let me know. I don’t need investment advice. Otherwise I hope to negotiate it down

If you are already in drawdown the tax saving will more than compensate for the fee and if you live 5 years your dependents will save 55% or whatever the tax is reduced to shortly.

It may be that a QROP is only an advantage to those actually drawing a pension, otherwise just accumulate it in a SIPP and transfer it to a QROP at retirement date

FYI I am not in the business of selling QROPs

[Captbonio]

I too am considering transferring my SIPP to a QROP. I see many negative comments about QROPS but the fact is:

Hargreaves Lansdowne and Fidelity will not open a SIPP for non-residents. I have checked many times. If you have not informed them you are non-resident that is another matter. If you have an existing SIPP and a UK address, they may overlook it, but there may be risks in that.

A Gibraltar based QROP can be paid less 2.5% tax, accumulated offshore and remitted to Thailand in the following tax year without a further tax charge. At least at the moment.

The total can be invested a portfolio bond offering the new low cost “clean” funds with annual management charges around 0.75%. Same as the UK.

Most of the front end fees on major investment houses which a conservative investor might wish to use are discounted to nil except First State and Cazenove 0.25%.

Yes there are some transaction charges but not excessive.

I am hard put to say what the disadvantages are.

An establishment charge of 0.435% over 8 years which is really a front end fee of 3.5%. As Wordchild says, find a UK IFA who will do it on a fee basis: the only problem is the small IFA’s know nothing and the large ones all operate on a commission basis. If anyone know an IFA who will charge on a time basis, please let me know. I don’t need investment advice. Otherwise I hope to negotiate it down

If you are already in drawdown the tax saving will more than compensate for the fee and if you live 5 years your dependents will save 55% or whatever the tax is reduced to shortly.

It may be that a QROP is only an advantage to those actually drawing a pension, otherwise just accumulate it in a SIPP and transfer it to a QROP at retirement date

FYI I am not in the business of selling QROPs

Many thanks.

[wordchild]

There is zero real benefit in investing via a portfolio bond within a QROP structure , it just adds a layer of needless charges (not always clearly described) and usually (always) for the benefit of the IFA. These things are potentially toxic and hardly used anymore by reputable IFA,s. As an expat, if an offshore IFA suggests such a structure, you know for sure he is not acting in your best interests, so walk away quickly!

Edited August 28, 2014 by wordchild

[wordchild]

TD direct say on their website that you can open a SIPP account as a non resident (as long as you have an existing UK scheme to tranfer) also might be worth trying Charles Stanley they certainly used to allow non residents to open SIPPs .

Edited August 29, 2014 by wordchild

[JolyonB]

I have a Charles Stanley SIPP via Fidelity:they do not allow non-residents It is an excellent product, Its all very well saying don't use a Bond structure, but what platforms are available, who does the accounting, tax and admin, and which onshore IFA''s will work on an advisory basis? Sovereign are the market leaders and they wont deal direct and neither will the bond providers.It seems the only practical solution is via a bond at the lowest possible cost.

Wordchild - If you know of any reputable UK IFA who can actually provide a non bond solution, please let me know

[wordchild]

I have a Charles Stanley SIPP via Fidelity:they do not allow non-residents It is an excellent product, Its all very well saying don't use a Bond structure, but what platforms are available, who does the accounting, tax and admin, and which onshore IFA''s will work on an advisory basis? Sovereign are the market leaders and they wont deal direct and neither will the bond providers.It seems the only practical solution is via a bond at the lowest possible cost.

Wordchild - If you know of any reputable UK IFA who can actually provide a non bond solution, please let me know

you don't need a portfolio bond to do any of the things you mention; the trust/admin company for the Qrop will handle local tax, admin, accounting and also hmrc reporting, the platform doesn't do any of this. A portfolio bond just adds needless cost, the so called benefits you don't need within a Qrop structure. IFA,s love them because it allows them to extract more money from your fund through charges. Portfolio bond structures are one of the main reasons people end up with high cost Qrops as discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Edited August 29, 2014 by wordchild