Cliff Richard's home searched by police investigating sexual abuse claim

[neverdie]

Until there is firm evidence to the contrary - relevant to an allegation made by an individual almost 30 years after the alleged incident - it would be prudent to withhold the name of the accused. But whenever an allegation of a sexual nature is made, whether or not it ultimately proves unfounded, the police persist in naming the accused, while invariably withholding that of the accuser, even where the allegation is found to be false.

The police also claim that they had nothing to do with leaking the search to the media. Something else that beggars belief.

I think this is perfectly reasonable , there is something flawed in the process at present. What must happen is that the accuser should feel safe to make the accusation, and the accused should have the right to some privacy up until the actual court process has been completed. Not sure how they would do this, but it certainly seems fair IMO

I forgot to mention Mr Toad, just like Rolf, Cliff is one of your mob......from the motherland?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Until there is firm evidence to the contrary - relevant to an allegation made by an individual almost 30 years after the alleged incident - it would be prudent to withhold the name of the accused. But whenever an allegation of a sexual nature is made, whether or not it ultimately proves unfounded, the police persist in naming the accused, while invariably withholding that of the accuser, even where the allegation is found to be false.

The police also claim that they had nothing to do with leaking the search to the media. Something else that beggars belief.

The allegations were floating around 25 years ago.

I previously posted he would be investigated.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738955-entertainer-rolf-harris-guilty-of-indecent-assaults/?p=8044773

Edited August 15, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[wolf5370]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

and hence the need for a thorough and professional investigation, which may or may not then be followed by appropriate court actions.

...and in the meantime his reputation is drawn through the sewer. There should be no press coverage at all in such cases - until at least it is decided to press charges and has been passed to Crown Court. They protect the identity of those who claim to have been raped with legislation, but the accused are fair game - why is that fair?

[neverdie]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

and hence the need for a thorough and professional investigation, which may or may not then be followed by appropriate court actions.

...and in the meantime his reputation is drawn through the sewer. There should be no press coverage at all in such cases - until at least it is decided to press charges and has been passed to Crown Court. They protect the identity of those who claim to have been raped with legislation, but the accused are fair game - why is that fair?

You won't find me disagreeing with that point MrWolf.

I loathe the way the press operates, always have, it has a life of its own.

[wolf5370]

Thankfully not for a few years

Only because it is now based on downloads rather than singles sold. Bet the CD single sales still win through each year!

[wolf5370]

What a load of !#@$ we are not colonizing another planet or something. A developed society does not condone sex with barely pubescent girls.

...erm or boys!

[mrtoad]

Thankfully not for a few years

Only because it is now based on downloads rather than singles sold. Bet the CD single sales still win through each year!

His music is truly nauseating

[jimbeam1]

OMG, not Sir Cliff???

Well was it not the Pope who said 2% of his clergy were at it?

Was that the one who recently resigned, a bit sharpish?

jb1

[wolf5370]

Until there is firm evidence to the contrary - relevant to an allegation made by an individual almost 30 years after the alleged incident - it would be prudent to withhold the name of the accused. But whenever an allegation of a sexual nature is made, whether or not it ultimately proves unfounded, the police persist in naming the accused, while invariably withholding that of the accuser, even where the allegation is found to be false.

The police also claim that they had nothing to do with leaking the search to the media. Something else that beggars belief.

I think this is perfectly reasonable , there is something flawed in the process at present. What must happen is that the accuser should feel safe to make the accusation, and the accused should have the right to some privacy up until the actual court process has been completed. Not sure how they would do this, but it certainly seems fair IMO

They have been talking about it earlier this year (I listen to Question Time on Radio 4 online - where they had almost 3 shows about it after several high profile people were released after false allegations were made and the press had a field day). The argument they put forward is always the same - that the publicity allows other people to come forward that would not otherwise. I think this is a puerile answer however - those people could come forward after the person is found guilty and a second case could be issued - so the only reason therefore is to keep court costs down! Yet again, this argument won through and still accusers are protected by law from having their identity revealed, whereas the accused are actively publicised! This is purely wrong.

Remember Matthew Kelly - spent a year in prison for being a child rapist - only for it to turn out to be untrue and he was released. Totally destroyed his career.

[neverdie]

Thankfully not for a few years

Only because it is now based on downloads rather than singles sold. Bet the CD single sales still win through each year!

His music is truly nauseating

Agreed !

[wolf5370]

Thankfully not for a few years

Only because it is now based on downloads rather than singles sold. Bet the CD single sales still win through each year!

His music is truly nauseating

Ah see, but you must have blue hair, a half ton leather "Thatcher" handbag, knitting needles in each hand, bat strength eyesight, and 10% hearing to appreciate him

[transam]

We are all mortals, just because we are a Sir or have an MBE etc doesn't mean we/those folk are whiter than white.

Us UK guys have in resent times raised an eyebrow at stuff. 100% sure more eyebrows will be raised in the future.......

[mrtoad]

Thankfully not for a few years

Only because it is now based on downloads rather than singles sold. Bet the CD single sales still win through each year!

His music is truly nauseating

Ah see, but you must have blue hair, a half ton leather "Thatcher" handbag, knitting needles in each hand, bat strength eyesight, and 10% hearing to appreciate him

Damn, thanks for the Advice Mr Wolf, now I understand!

[CharlieH]

The sad part is society remembers accusations not the innocent verdict.

To use an old phrase "mud sticks" regardless, thats the sad part, lives ruined, certainly traumatised by what later is proved to be unfounded and untrue.

[renaissanc]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

I can't help but wonder, if people decide 30+ years after the event to make a police complaint because they need some money or they see an opportunity to make some as the expense of someone else. Maybe their retirement pension isn't enough.

If the abuse hasn't bothered them for 30 years, then why does it suddenly bother them after 30+ years? Money has to be the issue there.

[thamesiris]

Let's get some facts straight:-

No one is fooled by paedo apologism.

In Buddhist theology, *no* paedo after their life of causing horrific suffering is going to be reincarnated as a human being again. They are going back to starters blocks ie. hell, or at best some creepy crawley - maybe a cockroach where it can learn to rear young properly.

However, the law will deal with these sickos in the present no matter how long ago the crime was.

[response to Chiang Mai's first comment]

Edited August 15, 2014 by thamesiris

[mrtoad]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

I can't help but wonder, if people decide 30+ years after the event to make a police complaint because they need some money or they see an opportunity to make some as the expense of someone else. Maybe their retirement pension isn't enough.

If the abuse hasn't bothered them for 30 years, then why does it suddenly bother them after 30+ years? Money has to be the issue there.

If it was only as simple as that. Who says it hasn't bothered them?

This old adage that only money being the issue is just so tired.

[renaissanc]

If the police cannot find any evidence about the accusation, I hope that Cliff will sue the accuser for as much as can be obtained to discourage anyone else making false accusations. He can sue the person for defamation, which in the case of a public figure such as Cliff, will be a major issue and deserving a massive payout.

[wolf5370]

We are all mortals, just because we are a Sir or have an MBE etc doesn't mean we/those folk are whiter than white.

Us UK guys have in resent times raised an eyebrow at stuff. 100% sure more eyebrows will be raised in the future.......

Yes but only one eyebrow - two eyebrows are reserved for men when receiving a tax rebate instead of a demand, and for women on realising the husband actually did remember their anniversary.

[kurtramsbottom]

Police who searched Cliff Richard's home claim they found an hours worth of material that is 'well and truly shocking'

..His 2003 Christmas Hits album

[MJP]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

I can't help but wonder, if people decide 30+ years after the event to make a police complaint because they need some money or they see an opportunity to make some as the expense of someone else. Maybe their retirement pension isn't enough.

If the abuse hasn't bothered them for 30 years, then why does it suddenly bother them after 30+ years? Money has to be the issue there.

Have any victims ever received money?

I quite agree with others that the present witch hunt style of justice by media frenzy is an embarrassing farce for a country that prides itself on its judicial system.

That said, if this latest one finally sorts out Christmas muzak once and for all there'll really be no excuse for anymore bah humbug.

[mrtoad]

If the police cannot find any evidence about the accusation, I hope that Cliff will sue the accuser for as much as can be obtained to discourage anyone else making false accusations. He can sue the person for defamation, which in the case of a public figure such as Cliff, will be a major issue and deserving a massive payout.

That's a ridiculous concept as well, as anyone with a lot of money is almost going to be untouchable. No one is going to come forward if they think they are going to be counter sued. It's not the accuser that puts it in the media anyhow, it's normally the police or CPS. The system is flawed, we all agree on that. However victims should feel safe to come forward. There will be cases where guilty people will be found not guilty to. Just sayin

[wolf5370]

I had a dream that I was raped by Elvis Pressley...no...I believe it was real...wonder how much the Pressley Estate will pay to keep this quiet...?

I can't help but wonder, if people decide 30+ years after the event to make a police complaint because they need some money or they see an opportunity to make some as the expense of someone else. Maybe their retirement pension isn't enough.

If the abuse hasn't bothered them for 30 years, then why does it suddenly bother them after 30+ years? Money has to be the issue there.

Have any victims ever received money?

I quite agree with others that the present witch hunt style of justice by media frenzy is an embarrassing farce for a country that prides itself on its judicial system.

That said, if this latest one finally sorts out Christmas muzak once and for all there'll really be no excuse for anymore bah humbug.

Yes of course they have. They sell their stories to red top papers for six or seven figures. Then do it again for the magazines. There is also the civil suit after the criminal one - with hope for a big settlement.

[Mosha]

Why is it that every time one of these 70s celebs gets caught there is someone on this board who defends their Pedophile activities?

I do understand that there are people who come to Thailand because they have more 'freedom' than in their own country, but there is no need to come onto TVF to let everyone know that you agree with this vile act.

Why is it people on this board always want to mis use the inflammatory word Paedophile? Paedophilia is an attraction to pre pubescent children and not 14+ year olds. This is not an apology, but please drop the witch burning phraseology.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/paedophile

Definition of child varies depending on where you hale from.

[wolf5370]

If the police cannot find any evidence about the accusation, I hope that Cliff will sue the accuser for as much as can be obtained to discourage anyone else making false accusations. He can sue the person for defamation, which in the case of a public figure such as Cliff, will be a major issue and deserving a massive payout.

That's a ridiculous concept as well, as anyone with a lot of money is almost going to be untouchable. No one is going to come forward if they think they are going to be counter sued. It's not the accuser that puts it in the media anyhow, it's normally the police or CPS. The system is flawed, we all agree on that. However victims should feel safe to come forward. There will be cases where guilty people will be found not guilty to. Just sayin

That in itself is another problem. In so far as the system is flawed, the only recourse he would have would be to sue the accuser. Most government departments and services are protected from legal action in the UK - they have to be put through commissions like the Police Complaints Commission - guess what, it takes years and at worst some lowly cop gets fired. No news and no recoup of his reputation. Therefore, a few very public crucifixions (financially speaking) of false accusers might stir the authorities into action on covering those flaws, they certainly have little momentum thus far!

The amount of false accusations of high profile people since Saville has been growing steadily. It is currently a free for all - and you can guess the amount of blackmailing going on behind the scenes that we never hear of, if so many are getting as far as court.

[Mosha]

Until there is firm evidence to the contrary - relevant to an allegation made by an individual almost 30 years after the alleged incident - it would be prudent to withhold the name of the accused. But whenever an allegation of a sexual nature is made, whether or not it ultimately proves unfounded, the police persist in naming the accused, while invariably withholding that of the accuser, even where the allegation is found to be false.

The police also claim that they had nothing to do with leaking the search to the media. Something else that beggars belief.

I think this is perfectly reasonable , there is something flawed in the process at present. What must happen is that the accuser should feel safe to make the accusation, and the accused should have the right to some privacy up until the actual court process has been completed. Not sure how they would do this, but it certainly seems fair IMO

I forgot to mention Mr Toad, just like Rolf, Cliff is one of your mob......from the motherland?

Harry Webb's Indian Rolf's a pom? 555

Edited August 15, 2014 by Mosha

[neverdie]

Until there is firm evidence to the contrary - relevant to an allegation made by an individual almost 30 years after the alleged incident - it would be prudent to withhold the name of the accused. But whenever an allegation of a sexual nature is made, whether or not it ultimately proves unfounded, the police persist in naming the accused, while invariably withholding that of the accuser, even where the allegation is found to be false.

The police also claim that they had nothing to do with leaking the search to the media. Something else that beggars belief.

I think this is perfectly reasonable , there is something flawed in the process at present. What must happen is that the accuser should feel safe to make the accusation, and the accused should have the right to some privacy up until the actual court process has been completed. Not sure how they would do this, but it certainly seems fair IMO

I forgot to mention Mr Toad, just like Rolf, Cliff is one of your mob......from the motherland?

Harry Webb's Indian Rolf's a pom? 555

They should automatically adopt the country that last gaoled them nationality.

[mrtoad]

Bloody colonials

[SeaVisionBurma]

Post with messed up quotes incorrectly attributing to a previous poster has been removed

[CharlieH]

A number of off topic posts removed, this isnt about his music !