Michael Brown killing: State police take over riot-hit US town

[chuckd]

You should take my word on this.

After reading this thread from the beginning, I would not take your word on anything.

UG:

I think we should give him credit for changing his approach on this thread.

First he tried to dazzle us with his brilliance.

When that failed he is now trying to baffle us with BS.

Edited September 5, 2014 by chuckd

[Publicus]

You should take my word on this.

After reading this thread from the beginning, I would not take your word on anything.

UG:

I think we should give him credit for changing his approach on this thread.

First he tried to dazzle us with his brilliance.

When that failed he is now trying to baffle us with BS.

Your mischaracterizations officer and everyone (almost everyone) knows you're a mischaracter

I'd bet you looked good in blue....

.....smoke and mirrors.

[F430murci]

securedownload.jpg

Say's it all.......

Disgusting and shameful. We gave them a chance to play pres and run the country, myself included. Never again. Lesson learned.

[F430murci]

This thread is about the shooting. Everything else you are quoting is a smokescreen as to the issue, the shooting!

Hey. It is not easy coming up with an excuses for a guy who was caught on video committing a violent robbery minutes before the confrontation with the police.

A pattern and practice investigation starts with one incident, in this case the Michael Brown homicide. Several other Ferguson PD cops have cases ongoing of civil rights violations and allegations of unconstitutional police practices or behaviors, often both.

That's the prima facie basis of a pattern and practice investigation.

The feds in Washington don't initiate a pattern and practice investigation unless they have enough evidence to see it occurring already and more than sufficient grounds to believe they will find more, much more.

You should take my word on this.

Oh Jeez, lets look at Mr. Holder's rationale for initiating the investigation. The embarrassment is allowing people into law school with this level of intellect if this is truly his analysis and rationale.

---------

"He said it was prompted by anecdotal complaints and a "variety of documents" that had information like "the percentage of stops for certain ethnic groups." He said there was "deep mistrust" of the Ferguson police and "lack of diversity" in the make-up of the force."

--------

Let's see . . . If a community is comprised of 7 blacks for every 3 whites, one could expect the amount of black stops to more than double the amount of white stops. This of course assumes that blacks and whites commit offenses at the same rate which unfortunately (and I wish it was) is not true.

In addition to basic math skills, Holder also fails to understand that his actions and words create more racial "mistrust" than any actions or deeds by any other single individual in the US.

[F430murci]

Racial diversity in employment is a smoke screen created by people to create racial tension. Unfortunately, many in the US are ignorant/uneducated enough to get fired up by a numbers game in hiring practices without actually analyzing or citing the meaningful data.

Forget the 70/30 percent ratio when analyzing the makeup of Ferguson police department. Citing that figure shows one of two things: (1) Ignorance; or (2) Efforts to create racial tension through intellectual dishonesty.

One needs to analyze the percentage of individuals in the community meeting the basic qualifications of the job. The key figure, however, is citing the number of or percentage of qualified black applicants that applied to become police officers in Ferguson. Those figures should be easily accessed by Holder et al. and would be the figures to cite if truly alleging racial disparity in employment practices.

So why does Holder and supposedly educated people fail to utilize or cite meaningful numbers that are actually applicable to a racial disparity claim? I get why some ding dong being interviewed on television with an 8th grade education would be all over the 70 percent population rate with 7 percent cop rate, but others are just using such figures to bait and "fire up" the uneducated or uninformed incapable of rational objective analysis.

[F430murci]

A pattern and practice investigation starts with one incident, in this case the Michael Brown homicide. Several other Ferguson PD cops have cases ongoing of civil rights violations and allegations of unconstitutional police practices or behaviors, often both.

That's the prima facie basis of a pattern and practice investigation.

The feds in Washington don't initiate a pattern and practice investigation unless they have enough evidence to see it occurring already and more than sufficient grounds to believe they will find more, much more.

You should take my word on this.

Oh Jeez, lets look at Mr. Holder's rationale for initiating the investigation. The embarrassment is allowing people into law school with this level of intellect if this is truly his analysis and rationale.

---------

"He said it was prompted by anecdotal complaints and a "variety of documents" that had information like "the percentage of stops for certain ethnic groups." He said there was "deep mistrust" of the Ferguson police and "lack of diversity" in the make-up of the force."

--------

Let's see . . . If a community is comprised of 7 blacks for every 3 whites, one could expect the amount of black stops to more than double the amount of white stops. This of course assumes that blacks and whites commit offenses at the same rate which unfortunately (and I wish it was) is not true.

In addition to basic math skills, Holder also fails to understand that his actions and words create more racial "mistrust" than any actions or deeds by any other single individual in the US.

That's your assumption, data, interpretation, rationale for it. Yes it's a for instance but it's your for instance.

"Let's see....if....assuming....."

The facts are as reported in the NYT 17 police departments have had pattern and practice investigations of civil rights statutes and have been sued by the DoJ in courts of law and the suits have been upheld, placing those departments under DoJ supervision. Thirty-four others were under pattern and practice investigations by the FBI before Ferguson and St Louis county became included.

Courts of law.

I specifically addressed Holder's express rationale. What happened in NY or New Mexico should have zero to do with why Holder initiated an investigation in Ferguson.

Holder did not say I investigating Feguson because of what happened in 34 other cities. That would be idiotic for someone to make such a statement.

Edited September 5, 2014 by F430murci

[chuckd]

It's all about firing up the Democrat's base for the mid-term elections.

Destroying the reputation of one police officer and one small police department means nothing when compared to the potential of the Democratic party losing control of both Houses of Congress.

Just more dirty Chicago politics at play here. Obama/Holder couldn't care less what happened to Michael Brown and if you people think otherwise, you are seriously ill informed.

[Publicus]

Racial diversity in employment is a smoke screen created by people to create racial tension. Unfortunately, many in the US are ignorant/uneducated enough to get fired up by a numbers game in hiring practices without actually analyzing or citing the meaningful data.

Forget the 70/30 percent ratio when analyzing the makeup of Ferguson police department. Citing that figure shows one of two things: (1) Ignorance; or (2) Efforts to create racial tension through intellectual dishonesty.

One needs to analyze the percentage of individuals in the community meeting the basic qualifications of the job. The key figure, however, is citing the number of or percentage of qualified black applicants that applied to become police officers in Ferguson. Those figures should be easily accessed by Holder et al. and would be the figures to cite if truly alleging racial disparity in employment practices.

So why does Holder and supposedly educated people fail to utilize or cite meaningful numbers that are actually applicable to a racial disparity claim? I get why some ding dong being interviewed on television with an 8th grade education would be all over the 70 percent population rate with 7 percent cop rate, but others are just using such figures to bait and "fire up" the uneducated or uninformed incapable of rational objective analysis.

A central factor in determining whether an employer even approximates a desired employee diversity and representation is effort. Does the employer make efforts to identify and to recruit qualified minority candidates to be considered for hire?

In some other contexts it's also called outreach.

FPD, St Louis PD, the PDs of St Louis county now need to account for the fact they, FPD in particular, are not representative of the population they "serve."

Is the entire minority population of Ferguson Missouri unqualified to apply to be a FPD officer? Are the entire minority population of Ferguson disinterested? Are there qualified minority candidates outside of Ferguson who have applied, or who could have been attracted to apply to the FPD had efforts been made by the FPD?

Are there efforts past and present by the FPD in Ferguson itself to try to recruit minority officers in order to try to be more representative of the community it serves? If the FPD can't hire, then it can't hire, but did it try to hire, has FPD made efforts? If not, why not? If yes, what quality of efforts? If not, or if no credible efforts, then the case is open and shut.

Wilson for instance was hired from outside of Ferguson. He was an active police officer, trained and qualified, with another police department, two years experience there. Should that give Wilson the advantage over a rookie minority candidate officer, if there was one? If there was a qualified minority candidate officer, why was that person not hired while Wilson was hired? If there wasn't a qualified minority candidate officer, why not? Were efforts made to recruit one or more?

In the civil rights pattern and practice investigation of the FPD by the FBI, it will matter materially that Wilson was hired by FPD from a Dirty Harry police department, in nearby Jenkins, that had just been disbanded by the Jenkins City Council for its own irretrievable pattern and practice of disastrous community relations.

The Justice Department to date has filed in federal courts 17 pattern and practice civil rights lawsuits that found unconstitutional conduct and behaviors by each of the 17 police departments. The DoJ lawsuits were brought after it conducting thorough and comprehensive investigations. DoJ has won every suit and now supervises those 17 departments' efforts to correct their flaws of minority hiring of officers and other personnel and of community relations.

The FPD and the Ferguson community - the nation as a whole - has a clear idea of what's coming out of this.

[Publicus]

A pattern and practice investigation starts with one incident, in this case the Michael Brown homicide. Several other Ferguson PD cops have cases ongoing of civil rights violations and allegations of unconstitutional police practices or behaviors, often both.

That's the prima facie basis of a pattern and practice investigation.

The feds in Washington don't initiate a pattern and practice investigation unless they have enough evidence to see it occurring already and more than sufficient grounds to believe they will find more, much more.

You should take my word on this.

Oh Jeez, lets look at Mr. Holder's rationale for initiating the investigation. The embarrassment is allowing people into law school with this level of intellect if this is truly his analysis and rationale.

---------

"He said it was prompted by anecdotal complaints and a "variety of documents" that had information like "the percentage of stops for certain ethnic groups." He said there was "deep mistrust" of the Ferguson police and "lack of diversity" in the make-up of the force."

--------

Let's see . . . If a community is comprised of 7 blacks for every 3 whites, one could expect the amount of black stops to more than double the amount of white stops. This of course assumes that blacks and whites commit offenses at the same rate which unfortunately (and I wish it was) is not true.

In addition to basic math skills, Holder also fails to understand that his actions and words create more racial "mistrust" than any actions or deeds by any other single individual in the US.

That's your assumption, data, interpretation, rationale for it. Yes it's a for instance but it's your for instance.

"Let's see....if....assuming....."

The facts are as reported in the NYT 17 police departments have had pattern and practice investigations of civil rights statutes and have been sued by the DoJ in courts of law and the suits have been upheld, placing those departments under DoJ supervision. Thirty-four others were under pattern and practice investigations by the FBI before Ferguson and St Louis county became included.

Courts of law.

I specifically addressed Holder's express rationale. What happened in NY or New Mexico should have zero to do with why Holder initiated an investigation in Ferguson.

Holder did not say I investigating Feguson because of what happened in 34 other cities. That would be idiotic for someone to make such a statement.

What AG Holder says at a press announcement about initiating a pattern and practice investigation into violations of civil rights statutes and of constitutional guarantees and the cause of action documents the DoJ files in federal court down the road and after the investigations have been concluded are two different things and you know it.

Holder at his public announcement spoke to both you and I.

I'm comforted, you're freaked out.

Live with it.

[F430murci]

Racial diversity in employment is a smoke screen created by people to create racial tension. Unfortunately, many in the US are ignorant/uneducated enough to get fired up by a numbers game in hiring practices without actually analyzing or citing the meaningful data.

Forget the 70/30 percent ratio when analyzing the makeup of Ferguson police department. Citing that figure shows one of two things: (1) Ignorance; or (2) Efforts to create racial tension through intellectual dishonesty.

One needs to analyze the percentage of individuals in the community meeting the basic qualifications of the job. The key figure, however, is citing the number of or percentage of qualified black applicants that applied to become police officers in Ferguson. Those figures should be easily accessed by Holder et al. and would be the figures to cite if truly alleging racial disparity in employment practices.

So why does Holder and supposedly educated people fail to utilize or cite meaningful numbers that are actually applicable to a racial disparity claim? I get why some ding dong being interviewed on television with an 8th grade education would be all over the 70 percent population rate with 7 percent cop rate, but others are just using such figures to bait and "fire up" the uneducated or uninformed incapable of rational objective analysis.

A central factor in determining whether an employer even approximates a desired employee diversity and representation is effort. Does the employer make efforts to identify and to recruit qualified minority candidates to be considered for hire?

In some other contexts it's also called outreach.

FPD, St Louis PD, the PDs of St Louis county now need to account for the fact they, FPD in particular, are not representative of the population they "serve."

Is the entire minority population of Ferguson Missouri unqualified to apply to be a FPD officer? Are the entire minority population of Ferguson disinterested? Are there qualified minority candidates outside of Ferguson who have applied, or who could have been attracted to apply to the FPD had efforts been made by the FPD?

Are there efforts past and present by the FPD in Ferguson itself to try to recruit minority officers in order to try to be more representative of the community it serves? If the FPD can't hire, then it can't hire, but did it try to hire, has FPD made efforts? If not, why not? If yes, what quality of efforts? If not, or if no credible efforts, then the case is open and shut.

Wilson for instance was hired from outside of Ferguson. He was an active police officer, trained and qualified, with another police department, two years experience there. Should that give Wilson the advantage over a rookie minority candidate officer, if there was one? If there was a qualified minority candidate officer, why was that person not hired while Wilson was hired? If there wasn't a qualified minority candidate officer, why not? Were efforts made to recruit one or more?

In the civil rights pattern and practice investigation of the FPD by the FBI, it will matter materially that Wilson was hired by FPD from a Dirty Harry police department, in nearby Jenkins, that had just been disbanded by the Jenkins City Council for its own irretrievable pattern and practice of disastrous community relations.

The Justice Department to date has filed in federal courts 17 pattern and practice civil rights lawsuits that found unconstitutional conduct and behaviors by each of the 17 police departments. The DoJ lawsuits were brought after it conducting thorough and comprehensive investigations. DoJ has won every suit and now supervises those 17 departments' efforts to correct their flaws of minority hiring of officers and other personnel and of community relations.

The FPD and the Ferguson community - the nation as a whole - has a clear idea of what's coming out of this.

Haha, oh lawdy. You are so FOS, have no clue as towhat you are talking about, are mixing concepts and misciting facts, laws and investigations. Cannot argue with stupid so I will no longer try.

[Publicus]

It's true dialogue on race in the United States leads nowhere, that each side bangs on and on against the other side. We do it interminably, unproductively; absurdly. The two most recent high profile instances of it here are the Trayvon Martin homicide and now the Michael Brown homicide.

There's a lot of hostility in certain quarters that each homicide of a black teenager got such prominent attention, and why.

Frank Rich of the NYT has asserted that the inevitable changeover from an America where Euro-Americans, or whites, are a majority to one where we be a minority -- in three more decades -- has caused anxiety in what Rich calls the white establishment.

What Rich does not say however is that, among whites over age forty, it is the fear that they will lose their racial privileges and the new majority, people of color, will treat them as badly as they were treated. I'm older than 40 but I am confident that this will not happen. Americans who voted for Obama also do not share this white anxiety syndrome.

Inner city black Americans don't define the United States any more than white southern racists define it, and neither will ever be definitive of it or even remotely definitive of it.

It's also the case Eric Holder has been AG for six years and by the time he leaves the office in January 2017 he will have remade the Justice Department.

An entire new crop of lawyers, FBI agents and the like already are redefining the Department's mission, approaches, purposes. A lot of black and minority lawyers have been catapulted in the legal profession whether in the public sector or the private sector. A lot of traditional lawyers have concerns about this that may skew their attitudes, beliefs, values. It is my belief that they too need not be so concerned. But then I'm not a part of the element of the lawyering brotherhood that may see itself as increasingly marginalized.

I like the old one about when a lawyer has the facts he should pound on the facts, and when a lawyer doesn't have the facts he should pound on the table.

[H1w4yR1da]

What AG Holder says at a press announcement about initiating a pattern and practice investigation into violations of civil rights statutes

Will he also be investigating Michael Brown for violating the civil rights of that store owner he assaulted and robbed?

Consider if you would my friend that vile and repugnant people who support actual and real Dirty Harry police are the object of my posts.

As opposed to the repugnant people supporting black gang bangers who rob stores and assault cops?

[Publicus]

What AG Holder says at a press announcement about initiating a pattern and practice investigation into violations of civil rights statutes

Will he also be investigating Michael Brown for violating the civil rights of that store owner he assaulted and robbed?

Consider if you would my friend that vile and repugnant people who support actual and real Dirty Harry police are the object of my posts.

As opposed to the repugnant people supporting black gang bangers who rob stores and assault cops?

As to your first post, perhaps you might want to contact the Department of Justice about your (at best) tangential and quite personal issue. We pay our taxes to those guys and they would know so you're asking the wrong sub expert. You in fact seem unaware there is available to you right here sundry and free legal advice and opinion so you might want to take advantage of this remarkable rarity (see above for instances).

You do ask my opinion so my response is that it's highly unlikely or virtually impossible the Civil Rights Act of 1964 could apply to either Michael Brown or the shopkeeper.Simple robbery - unarmed robbery - is pretty much a local matter governed by state law in each state so I doubt the Department of Justice would get involved on that basis alone. DoJ investigators would be likely to gather the facts of the store event but I'd seriously doubt your marginal at best take on it would be applicable much less of any significance whatsoever.

Still, I do suggest you ask the free advice lawyer from Memphis or some such place when he swings back through here.

Your second post further illustrates my point thx.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[H1w4yR1da]

Your second post further illustrates my point thx.

That's just it. You don't have a point. Just inane, lengthy ramblings making no sense. Edited September 6, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[Diablo Bob]

What AG Holder says at a press announcement about initiating a pattern and practice investigation into violations of civil rights statutes

Will he also be investigating Michael Brown for violating the civil rights of that store owner he assaulted and robbed?

Consider if you would my friend that vile and repugnant people who support actual and real Dirty Harry police are the object of my posts.

As opposed to the repugnant people supporting black gang bangers who rob stores and assault cops?

As to your first post, perhaps you might want to contact the Department of Justice about your (at best) tangential and quite personal issue. We pay our taxes to those guys and they would know so you're asking the wrong sub expert. You in fact seem unaware there is available to you right here sundry and free legal advice and opinion so you might want to take advantage of this remarkable rarity (see above for instances).

You do ask my opinion so my response is that it's highly unlikely or virtually impossible the Civil Rights Act of 1964 could apply to either Michael Brown or the shopkeeper.Simple robbery - unarmed robbery - is pretty much a local matter governed by state law in each state so I doubt the Department of Justice would get involved on that basis alone. DoJ investigators would be likely to gather the facts of the store event but I'd seriously doubt your marginal at best take on it would be applicable much less of any significance whatsoever.

Still, I do suggest you ask the free advice lawyer from Memphis or some such place when he swings back through here.

Your second post further illustrates my point thx.

I think you forgot about the assault along with the robbery.

[chuckd]

Just an opinion guys, but if you are going to take anybody's legal opinion offered on a pro bono basis. I suggest you take the one offered by our real attorney, known as F430murci.

English teachers are good at punctuation, spelling and using very large words.

[beechguy]

It's true dialogue on race in the United States leads nowhere, that each side bangs on and on against the other side. We do it interminably, unproductively; absurdly. The two most recent high profile instances of it here are the Trayvon Martin homicide and now the Michael Brown homicide.

There's a lot of hostility in certain quarters that each homicide of a black teenager got such prominent attention, and why.

Frank Rich of the NYT has asserted that the inevitable changeover from an America where Euro-Americans, or whites, are a majority to one where we be a minority -- in three more decades -- has caused anxiety in what Rich calls the white establishment.

What Rich does not say however is that, among whites over age forty, it is the fear that they will lose their racial privileges and the new majority, people of color, will treat them as badly as they were treated. I'm older than 40 but I am confident that this will not happen. Americans who voted for Obama also do not share this white anxiety syndrome.

Inner city black Americans don't define the United States any more than white southern racists define it, and neither will ever be definitive of it or even remotely definitive of it.

It's also the case Eric Holder has been AG for six years and by the time he leaves the office in January 2017 he will have remade the Justice Department.

An entire new crop of lawyers, FBI agents and the like already are redefining the Department's mission, approaches, purposes. A lot of black and minority lawyers have been catapulted in the legal profession whether in the public sector or the private sector. A lot of traditional lawyers have concerns about this that may skew their attitudes, beliefs, values. It is my belief that they too need not be so concerned. But then I'm not a part of the element of the lawyering brotherhood that may see itself as increasingly marginalized.

I like the old one about when a lawyer has the facts he should pound on the facts, and when a lawyer doesn't have the facts he should pound on the table.

Has Holder and Obama remade the Department of Justice? Yes, the turned it into a shambles of it's former self. If they want to redeem themselves, they have ample opportunity, Fast and Furious, IRS, etc. Of course we know that won't happen.

Edited September 6, 2014 by beechguy

[Publicus]

Just an opinion guys, but if you are going to take anybody's legal opinion offered on a pro bono basis. I suggest you take the one offered by our real attorney, known as F430murci.

English teachers are good at punctuation, spelling and using very large words.

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

It's true dialogue on race in the United States leads nowhere, that each side bangs on and on against the other side. We do it interminably, unproductively; absurdly. The two most recent high profile instances of it here are the Trayvon Martin homicide and now the Michael Brown homicide.

There's a lot of hostility in certain quarters that each homicide of a black teenager got such prominent attention, and why.

Frank Rich of the NYT has asserted that the inevitable changeover from an America where Euro-Americans, or whites, are a majority to one where we be a minority -- in three more decades -- has caused anxiety in what Rich calls the white establishment.

What Rich does not say however is that, among whites over age forty, it is the fear that they will lose their racial privileges and the new majority, people of color, will treat them as badly as they were treated. I'm older than 40 but I am confident that this will not happen. Americans who voted for Obama also do not share this white anxiety syndrome.

Inner city black Americans don't define the United States any more than white southern racists define it, and neither will ever be definitive of it or even remotely definitive of it.

It's also the case Eric Holder has been AG for six years and by the time he leaves the office in January 2017 he will have remade the Justice Department.

An entire new crop of lawyers, FBI agents and the like already are redefining the Department's mission, approaches, purposes. A lot of black and minority lawyers have been catapulted in the legal profession whether in the public sector or the private sector. A lot of traditional lawyers have concerns about this that may skew their attitudes, beliefs, values. It is my belief that they too need not be so concerned. But then I'm not a part of the element of the lawyering brotherhood that may see itself as increasingly marginalized.

I like the old one about when a lawyer has the facts he should pound on the facts, and when a lawyer doesn't have the facts he should pound on the table.

Has Holder and Obama remade the Department of Justice? Yes, the turned it into a shambles of it's former self. If they want to redeem themselves, they have ample opportunity, Fast and Furious, IRS, etc. Of course we know that won't happen.

;b++){var>

Eric Holder is the first black attorney general.

Barack Obama is the first black president.

Michael Brown is another of a couple of hundred unarmed black or unarmed Hispanic young men executed by cops who for more than a decade have been accepted as cop, judge, jury, executioner while the police department has become the prosecutor.

That is finally beginning to be addressed which is long past due rectifying.

The DoJ and FBI pattern and practice investigation of the Ferguson PD is going to turn it inside out and you guys are going to have to accept that and more as time progresses. Wilson is going to end up working as a security guard for the tea party.

[Diablo Bob]

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

Wow...... Sure glad you aren't in that position anymore!!!!

You seem to miss the fact that Civil Rights are not only for people of color! You aren't capable of doing a non-biased investigation and never should have been a position to judge other people with your investigations.

[beechguy]

Just an opinion guys, but if you are going to take anybody's legal opinion offered on a pro bono basis. I suggest you take the one offered by our real attorney, known as F430murci.

English teachers are good at punctuation, spelling and using very large words.

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

It's true dialogue on race in the United States leads nowhere, that each side bangs on and on against the other side. We do it interminably, unproductively; absurdly. The two most recent high profile instances of it here are the Trayvon Martin homicide and now the Michael Brown homicide.

There's a lot of hostility in certain quarters that each homicide of a black teenager got such prominent attention, and why.

Frank Rich of the NYT has asserted that the inevitable changeover from an America where Euro-Americans, or whites, are a majority to one where we be a minority -- in three more decades -- has caused anxiety in what Rich calls the white establishment.

What Rich does not say however is that, among whites over age forty, it is the fear that they will lose their racial privileges and the new majority, people of color, will treat them as badly as they were treated. I'm older than 40 but I am confident that this will not happen. Americans who voted for Obama also do not share this white anxiety syndrome.

Inner city black Americans don't define the United States any more than white southern racists define it, and neither will ever be definitive of it or even remotely definitive of it.

It's also the case Eric Holder has been AG for six years and by the time he leaves the office in January 2017 he will have remade the Justice Department.

An entire new crop of lawyers, FBI agents and the like already are redefining the Department's mission, approaches, purposes. A lot of black and minority lawyers have been catapulted in the legal profession whether in the public sector or the private sector. A lot of traditional lawyers have concerns about this that may skew their attitudes, beliefs, values. It is my belief that they too need not be so concerned. But then I'm not a part of the element of the lawyering brotherhood that may see itself as increasingly marginalized.

I like the old one about when a lawyer has the facts he should pound on the facts, and when a lawyer doesn't have the facts he should pound on the table.

Has Holder and Obama remade the Department of Justice? Yes, the turned it into a shambles of it's former self. If they want to redeem themselves, they have ample opportunity, Fast and Furious, IRS, etc. Of course we know that won't happen.

;b++){var>

Eric Holder is the first black attorney general.

Barack Obama is the first black president.

Michael Brown is another of a couple of hundred unarmed black or unarmed Hispanic young men executed by cops who for more than a decade have been accepted as cop, judge, jury, executioner while the police department has become the prosecutor.

That is finally beginning to be addressed which is long past due rectifying.

The DoJ and FBI pattern and practice investigation of the Ferguson PD is going to turn it inside out and you guys are going to have to accept that and more as time progresses. Wilson is going to end up working as a security guard for the tea party.

Could be a step up for Officer Wilson. I would still prefer Obama and Holder clean up their own mess first, but probably only a racist would overlook their failures just because they are black. It's unfortunate, because if being black was the only qualification, there were far better qualified people to be elected and appointed.

Edited September 6, 2014 by beechguy

[Publicus]

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

Wow...... Sure glad you aren't in that position anymore!!!!

You seem to miss the fact that Civil Rights are not only for people of color! You aren't capable of doing a non-biased investigation and never should have been a position to judge other people with your investigations.

Oh you haven't any idea of the havoc I wrought . That it would turn the stomach of the extreme right wingnuts around here is a dividend of the experience that keeps on paying . (My various supervisors kept giving yours truly their highest ratings.) It was Ronnie Raygun and also G.H.W. Bush who with the plodder Clarence Thomas that from top to bottom didn't like any of it. It's all better however.

As to your second point, the constitution is for everyone (although it wasn't always so, was it?).

And by constitutional processes and means successive congresses and presidents deemed to created in the code of laws protected classes of Americans. The idea and programs also connect directly to the Declaration of Independence - you know, all men are created equal. Protected classes became necessary because not everyone reads well or for some indefensible reason they don't play well with others.

It's a continuing challenge to society as posters unwind yet another thread of it.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Publicus

[chuckd]

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

Your legal source wouldn't be Mitch McDeere would it? If your going to try and be a name dropper yourself, you might want to get the name right.

Oh, just in case. You do know John Belushi is NOT a real attorney, right?

[Publicus]

Just an opinion guys, but if you are going to take anybody's legal opinion offered on a pro bono basis. I suggest you take the one offered by our real attorney, known as F430murci.

English teachers are good at punctuation, spelling and using very large words.

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

Has Holder and Obama remade the Department of Justice? Yes, the turned it into a shambles of it's former self. If they want to redeem themselves, they have ample opportunity, Fast and Furious, IRS, etc. Of course we know that won't happen.

Eric Holder is the first black attorney general.

Barack Obama is the first black president.

Michael Brown is another of a couple of hundred unarmed black or unarmed Hispanic young men executed by cops who for more than a decade have been accepted as cop, judge, jury, executioner while the police department has become the prosecutor.

That is finally beginning to be addressed which is long past due rectifying.

The DoJ and FBI pattern and practice investigation of the Ferguson PD is going to turn it inside out and you guys are going to have to accept that and more as time progresses. Wilson is going to end up working as a security guard for the tea party.

Could be a step up for Officer Wilson. I would still prefer Obama and Holder clean up their own mess first, but probably only a racist would overlook their failures just because they are black. It's unfortunate, because if being black was the only qualification, there were far better qualified people to be elected and appointed.

After having executed Michael Brown becoming a rapist would be a step up for Officer Wilson. Rape is deadly serious but killing a person is the ultimate.

Extremists try to create a false equation, that voting for and supporting Prez Obama makes one a racist while voting for the guys he beat necessarily makes you color blind. Extremists make this claim while continually using the word black and while referring repeatedly to black Americans.

The clowns who say there are black Americans more qualified than Barack Obama to be president are also the jokers who reject people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as being among the legitimate heirs to carry on the work of the Rev. Dr. King. These comedians have as their heroes the mad bomber Sen John McCain and other such notables as Sen Ted Cruz not to mention Dirty Harry Wilson.

These assinine [sic] propositions can only come from the extreme wingnut right because these and other such odious thoughts are not in the minds of the great majority of everyday Americans.

[Publicus]

Name dropper!

Forumists should know I get my legal advice on these issues from Mitch Deere. If you like Bendini Lambert and Lock that's up to you, just don't go out fishing with 'em off the Caymans.

Actually officer I should refresh my TV profile to include formerly a federal investigator of civil rights violations, not to mention presently co-owner of a small English school.

And only as a point of information, I'd reference the fact Michael Brown's life as a juvenile shows no serious felony activity although the state court judge hasn't made any final determination on whether to open his sealed file.

I hesitate to mention Mike's life as a juvenile, which is pretty much all he ever had, because nothing - nothing - justifies a Dirty Harry cop in a Dirty Harry police department joining the long list of Dirty Harry cops in Dirty Harry police departments summarily and arbitrarily executing unarmed black or brown citizens.

Don't you know you could be next?

Officer

Your legal source wouldn't be Mitch McDeere would it? If your going to try and be a name dropper yourself, you might want to get the name right.

Oh, just in case. You do know John Belushi is NOT a real attorney, right?

Yes officer.

My hands are up.

Don't shoot.

[Credo]

This thread is getting really boring. I think it would be a good idea if the police would try not to shoot people, if possible, regardless of color.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and other nonsense posts in violation of the following forum rule have been removed:

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[thaibeachlovers]

As I'd noted, trying to dialogue about race in the U.S. goes absolutely nowhere.

Each side only bangs on against the other side.

And so on it goes interminably.

Still, the fact remains Barack Obama was twice elected president of the United States by decisive margins over his opponents.

And Eric Holder, now in his sixth year as Attorney General, will leave office in January 2017 having remade the Justice Department to reflect and represent the nation it serves.

<having remade the Justice Department to reflect and represent the nation it serves>

[H1w4yR1da]

After Publicus's comments on Al Sharpton and now Eric Holder, I really believe he's just on a wind up. No way is he serious. Impossible!

[H1w4yR1da]

7 disgusting ways Michael Brown and Ferguson have been smeared How police, the media and politicians have tried to make this about anything other than a dead teenager

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/20/7_disgusting_ways_michael_brown_and_ferguson_have_been_smeared_partner/

Salon.com?

Are you kidding?

I quote "they released a video that allegedly showed Brown confronting a convenience store employee and taking a package of cigars."

He didn't 'confront' the site employee, he assaulted him.

He didn't 'take' a package of cigars, he stole them.

The police didn't smear Michael Brown, his own actions did that.