180 Baht Charges for ATM.

[Tuskfish]

Three ATM withdrawals in Thailand from Australian Commonwealth Bank useing
Kasikorn in the space of 30 days differing amounts differing fees.

June 29th..........thb 20.000---------------fee $24.97
July 05th..........thb 12.000---------------fee $17.15
July 22nd.........thb 5.000----------------fee $5.00

**************

Thanks for the comparison - just to clarify my rough figures include the 180 baht + my Commbank charges

e.g. Withdraw 20000 (180 baht + $5 + 3% = about $32) so pretty well in line with your first example - actually should maybe be $31 - I think my excel rounded up

Cheers mate

Edited August 18, 2014 by Tuskfish

[Pib]

Thanks Pib - seems you understand it much better than me You've taught me something today (DCC & MasterCard rates)

When I was first presented with the question by the ATM I didn't know what to do. Then from trial and error it turned out pressing NO was to way to go...

Similar thing happened when buying QANTAS flights, for an American friend, while inside Thailand (whole nutha story that one!) - but saved about $100 by selecting "use home rate".

Yea, a person has to be really careful when an ATM or merchant offers you two rates...one of them is surely going to be the rip-off DCC rate regardless of what warm & fuzzy name (or worst yet intentionally deceptive name) the ATM/merchant may give it. DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant.

Now, I've only used my foreign/home country cards in Bangkok Bank, Thai Military Bank (TMB), Bank of Ayudhya/Krungsri, and AEON ATMs and none of them offered a DCC transaction so I've never got the change so far to just say No to DCC on an ATM. But plenty of posts on ThaiVisa of various Thai bank ATMs first offering the DCC rip-off.

However, I have had several merchants "attempt" a DCC transaction on some credit card purchases...I stopped them in their tracks...didn't sign the receipt for signature...told them to cancel that transaction and re-accomplish in my home country currency and they all did...it only takes about 30 seconds to 2 minutes to do all of that....but you'll read stories of some merchants saying it can't be done...would take too long...etc---all merchant BS trying to make a higher profit by getting you to accept the lower DCC rate which will probably be 3 to 4% lower. And whenever I'm making a purchase from a merchant that I have never used before and don't know if they default to using the DCC, I always tell the merchant "to charge baht, not US dollars" when handling them my card...but sometimes even that don't help as the clerk's brain seems to be on autopilot...then we end up going through the cancel and recharge process which takes a few minutes as I just mentioned. But fortunately, where I use my credit card it don't happen often plus I know the merchants who will attempt it every time so I'm extra careful in stressing the "charge baht; not USD" when handling my card to the clerk.

Knock on wood, but so far I have never been successfully charged a DCC transaction on credit or debit card...but I'm sure ATMs and merchants will keep trying.

[Greg Nixon]

The money is kept in a foreign bank 12000 km away. I put in a card and automatically the funds are transferred exchange applied and WOW I get Thai Baht. Its a miracle for $5.00. Who could ask for anything more? If I make 3 withdrawals I pay less than 0.75% . What a service. I find no risk in keeping $600 0r $700 in my wallet in Thailand and if I did I would hide it in my home.

[alanrchase]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

[Tuskfish]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

I believe the misunderstanding may be that some people think they can't open a bank account or may not have a local they can trust? Only guessing

[alanrchase]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

I believe the misunderstanding may be that some people think they can't open a bank account or may not have a local they can trust? Only guessing

Understandable I can accept, my Thai bank is the most pleasant bank I have ever dealt with.

[tonywillo]

How dare people run businesses to make a profit or charge for a service they provide, what are they thinking!

After all, the ATM machine itself is free,the installation free, the electricity to run it is free, the staff to service it and reload it etc is free the computer systems and hardware, it was all free so why should they charge the customer.

Roland they should be free!

For every ATM you see that’s one less person the bank needs to employ, get a whole bunch of ATM's and that’s one less branch the bank needs to have and the ATM is happy to take a bullet for the bank and never wants to steal money either! So the cost of power, people to fill /service them and original investment is a bargain in comparison.

To the poster

The 180B is simply bank corporate greed and the tip of the iceberg; my bank also steals another 4.5% of the transaction at the other end as well. But the real sting has to be the difference in currency conversions between Thai banks. Recently I had 2 withdrawals (10K THB) of the same amount only minutes apart, one from K bank the other from Ayudhya and found K Bank had ripped another $14 more than Ayudhya.

All these little amounts add up to a bigger amount and from a total of 30K THB withdrawn from Thai ATM’s the fees, charges disadvantaged currency conversion across banks totalled more than $95 AUD.

Cash remains the King!

[nidieunimaitre]

Thanks Pib - seems you understand it much better than me You've taught me something today (DCC & MasterCard rates)

When I was first presented with the question by the ATM I didn't know what to do. Then from trial and error it turned out pressing NO was to way to go...

Similar thing happened when buying QANTAS flights, for an American friend, while inside Thailand (whole nutha story that one!) - but saved about $100 by selecting "use home rate".

Yea, a person has to be really careful when an ATM or merchant offers you two rates...one of them is surely going to be the rip-off DCC rate regardless of what warm & fuzzy name (or worst yet intentionally deceptive name) the ATM/merchant may give it. DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant.

Now, I've only used my foreign/home country cards in Bangkok Bank, Thai Military Bank (TMB), Bank of Ayudhya/Krungsri, and AEON ATMs and none of them offered a DCC transaction so I've never got the change so far to just say No to DCC on an ATM. But plenty of posts on ThaiVisa of various Thai bank ATMs first offering the DCC rip-off.

However, I have had several merchants "attempt" a DCC transaction on some credit card purchases...I stopped them in their tracks...didn't sign the receipt for signature...told them to cancel that transaction and re-accomplish in my home country currency and they all did...it only takes about 30 seconds to 2 minutes to do all of that....but you'll read stories of some merchants saying it can't be done...would take too long...etc---all merchant BS trying to make a higher profit by getting you to accept the lower DCC rate which will probably be 3 to 4% lower. And whenever I'm making a purchase from a merchant that I have never used before and don't know if they default to using the DCC, I always tell the merchant "to charge baht, not US dollars" when handling them my card...but sometimes even that don't help as the clerk's brain seems to be on autopilot...then we end up going through the cancel and recharge process which takes a few minutes as I just mentioned. But fortunately, where I use my credit card it don't happen often plus I know the merchants who will attempt it every time so I'm extra careful in stressing the "charge baht; not USD" when handling my card to the clerk.

Knock on wood, but so far I have never been successfully charged a DCC transaction on credit or debit card...but I'm sure ATMs and merchants will keep trying.

This happened to me 3 times: the yellow bank, Home Pro and Dubai tax Free.

When I mentioned this before, a poster commented that Visa does not allow this scam, only Master Card. Correct?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

An evergreen topic

Bangkok Bank: 150 Baht, see here:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BANGKOKBANK/WEBSERVICES/HELPCENTER/Pages/FeeTable.aspx

Krungsri 150 for Visa, 180 for MC:

http://www.krungsri.com/en/banking-rates05.aspx?flag=0

http://www.krungsri.com/inc/download.aspx?file=../download/Interest_792advance_notification_atm13.pdf

Not in the mood to search all banks.

AEON 150 from own experience.

Just to update on this a bit, for some other banks. Today, I went out to do an ATM withdrawal with one of my U.S. VISA-logo debit cards...

I was surprised to find that BOTH Kasikorn and UOB are now charging the 180 baht fee against VISA cards. So best to avoid those if possible.

Likewise, confirming Benq's report above, the BKK Bank ATM near my home was still charging the lower 150 baht fee for the same VISA card withdrawal.

And when I last used a TMB ATM at the beginning of the month, it was still charging the lower 150 baht fee for VISA logo cards, with the added advantage of a 30,000 baht maximum withdrawal.

[nidieunimaitre]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

Because if you use a Thai bank account you will have to SWIFT in your money, (and in large amounts).

Not all internet banking services allow you to SWIFT, so you may need help from someone in your home country.

While the rip off ATM is easy to use.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My bank in the USA... USAA Savings Bank reimburses ATM charges - even those from Thailand up to about $15.00 each account. And to the best of my account research USAA does not charge a foreign transaction fee for ATM charges -- but does for Credit Card charges ... which I believe is mostly due to MasterCard...

AFAIK, and it's been confirmed here in the past by other USAA banking members, they began charging a 1% foreign currency fee on their foreign debit card transactions quite some time back.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It always suprises me why so many use foreign credit cards when it's so easy to open up a thai bank account with atm card for free. And when you do an online transfer from your home country you'll get the best exchange rates as well.

That's not necessarily true.

If someone is making Thai ATM withdrawals using their home country card, and if it's a VISA logo card that has 1) no foreign currency fee and 2) reimburses other banks' ATM fees, then those transactions are going to be more economical than almost any international funds transfer into Thailand.

The above transaction has no fees to the cardholder, because their home country isn't charging any and they're also covering the Thai bank's ATM fee, and the exchange rate will be the VISA network rate, which is as good as a person can get most of the time.

On the other hand, most international funds transfers into Thailand involve an often substantial fee charged by the sending bank, and almost always a 0.25% fee, usually with 200 baht minimums and 500 baht maximums) by the receiving Thai bank. (That fee alone is larger than a single 180 baht ATM fee for a 30,000 baht withdrawal). The exchange rate for those transfers usually will be the bank's buying TT rate, which isn't necessarily better than the VISA network rate.

Many people seem to not be aware of the Thai banks taking a 200 to 500 baht commission on the incoming funds for international transfers, apparently because the Thai banks tend not to break out that detail in their online banking ledgers, and you won't see it unless you specifically ask for a detailed breakdown of the international transfer.

Edited August 18, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Using your foreign ATM card in Thailand or any other country is a stupid way to fund your trip out here..unless you have so much money you just dont care and like the convenience..otherwise this should only be used in an emergency..

good ol travelers checks are still the best way to go, more secure than cash and the best possible exchange rate.

Another piece of flawed advice.

Most if not all of the Thai banks are now charging a much higher handling fee for traveler's cheques of 153 baht per check. And that would be per $100 or even $500 cheque that most people will be carrying.

By comparison, a no foreign currency fee ATM withdrawal from a bank like TMB that allows 30,000 baht per withdrawal would yield almost $900+ for only a single, total 150 baht fee.

I will acknowledge, though, that if someone is carrying a home country card that charges a 3% foreign currency fee, then the comparison would be different, and it would depend on what dollar amount traveler's cheques a person is using, in order to make any fees comparison.

[Pib]

This happened to me 3 times: the yellow bank, Home Pro and Dubai tax Free.

When I mentioned this before, a poster commented that Visa does not allow this scam, only Master Card. Correct?

Both Visa and Mastercard allow it; they just don't like it because most customers end-up blaming Visa/Mastercard for the crappy exchange rate when it fact it was the local ATM/merchant's crappy exchange rate (a.k.a., DCC).

Below is a quote from the Visa website regarding DCC.

What is dynamic currency conversion?

Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC), also referred to as Cardholder Preferred Currency (CPC), is a service offered by merchants – not Visa - in some countries when you are traveling abroad. If you choose to use the DCC service, the merchant will convert the purchase price of goods or services at the point of sale from the currency in which the price (i.e., the merchant's local currency) is displayed into another currency (i.e. your home currency) using an exchange rate that typically includes a service fee.

Here's an example of a DCC transaction:

A U.S. Visa cardholder is in Singapore and decides to purchase a box of chocolates priced at SGD 20. At checkout, the merchant offers the cardholder the option to pay in USD using a DCC service.

The merchant dynamically converts the SGD transaction amount to USD 15.80. The DCC transaction amount and transaction currency (in USD) are disclosed to the cardholder. An exchange rate of 0.79 (1 SGD = .79 USD), which includes a 2.5% mark up (over a wholesale exchange rate) and the 2.5% commission/fee/mark up are also disclosed to the cardholder.

The cardholder actively chooses DCC by checking a box on a printed receipt or pushing a button on an electronic screen and agrees to pay USD 15.80 for the box of chocolates using the exchange rate provided by the merchant that includes a 2.5% fee for the DCC service.

If you do not want to use DCC when making a purchase, then you have the right to refuse the offer and have your transaction billed in the merchant's local currency, which will then use Visa's conversion rate. If you did not agree to DCC, but see it on your bill, then you should ask your issuing bank to contest the charge.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

I believe the misunderstanding may be that some people think they can't open a bank account or may not have a local they can trust? Only guessing

Understandable I can accept, my Thai bank is the most pleasant bank I have ever dealt with.

The issue, guys, is that a lot of people here, especially the retired among us, earn and receive our funds NOT in Thailand but in our home countries.

So, even if we have Thai bank accounts here, and most of us do, there's still the issue of how to access the funds deposited in our home countries, and usually, that comes down to either 1) ATM withdrawals in Thailand or 2) international funds tranfers.

Having a Thai bank account, by itself, does you little good if the funds you receive every month arrive in the U.S., UK, Australia, etc etc.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, for the couple of Aussie posters above complaining about getting reamed by their Aussie banks on foreign ATM fees and foreign currency charges, perhaps you should check out the Citibank Australia account that some of your countrymen keep talking about here, and insisting its ATM card can be used at Thai Citibank ATMs in Bangkok with no ATM fee or foreign currency charge from Citibank.

[Joe Black]

The solution is don't use the ATM.I use the currency exchange both.Just hand over your ATM card ( not credit card ) and passport , they swipe your card , you sign the receipt get your money and no fees . I normally withdraw 20,000 baht each time then deposit it into my Thai account.

[dagobert]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

I believe the misunderstanding may be that some people think they can't open a bank account or may not have a local they can trust? Only guessing

Understandable I can accept, my Thai bank is the most pleasant bank I have ever dealt with.

The issue, guys, is that a lot of people here, especially the retired among us, earn and receive our funds NOT in Thailand but in our home countries.

So, even if we have Thai bank accounts here, and most of us do, there's still the issue of how to access the funds deposited in our home countries, and usually, that comes down to either 1) ATM withdrawals in Thailand or 2) international funds tranfers.

Having a Thai bank account, by itself, does you little good if the funds you receive every month arrive in the U.S., UK, Australia, etc etc.

Accumulation: Insted of withdrawing every check what i have been doing over

the last few years is lump EFT transfers of $5000 yeah it costs the $22 or what ever but it

still beats paying fees of like $50 a month.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So just to recap at present on the ATM fees situation for foreign VISA debit cards, I believe we have the following:

150 baht fee:

TMB, max 30,000

BKK Bank, max 20K or 25K

AEON, max 20K

180 baht fee:

Ayudhya

Kasikorn

UOB

Can anyone else fill in the others, for VISA card withdrawals?

Edited August 18, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The issue, guys, is that a lot of people here, especially the retired among us, earn and receive our funds NOT in Thailand but in our home countries.

So, even if we have Thai bank accounts here, and most of us do, there's still the issue of how to access the funds deposited in our home countries, and usually, that comes down to either 1) ATM withdrawals in Thailand or 2) international funds tranfers.

Having a Thai bank account, by itself, does you little good if the funds you receive every month arrive in the U.S., UK, Australia, etc etc.

Accumulation: Insted of withdrawing every check what i have been doing over

the last few years is lump EFT transfers of $5000 yeah it costs the $22 or what ever but it

still beats paying fees of like $50 a month.

Unless you're doing like myself, Pib and some others here...and not paying any ATM fees or foreign currency fees at all on our Thai ATM withdrawals. It all depends on the home country bank card that you choose to use.

[jpinx]

So just to recap at present on the ATM fees situation for foreign VISA cards, I believe we have the following:

150 baht fee:

TMB, max 30,000

BKK Bank, max 20K or 25K

AEON, max 20K

180 baht fee:

Ayudhya

Kasikorn

UOB

Can anyone else fill in the others, for VISA card withdrawals?

Is that for Visa Credit or Debit cards ?

You can add Krungsri Bank and Visa credit card -- 30,000 maximum and 180 Baht fee.

Edited August 18, 2014 by jpinx

[alanrchase]

Am totally confused about this. Thai bank account seems obvious solution. Why use a foreign ATM regularly?

Because if you use a Thai bank account you will have to SWIFT in your money, (and in large amounts).

Not all internet banking services allow you to SWIFT, so you may need help from someone in your home country.

While the rip off ATM is easy to use.

Have same problem with internet banking, won't allow foreign transfer.

I go old school and write a letter requesting the transfer, only fee is postage stamp.

[thailand49]

I mainly use ATM for a number of years now for my funds here in Thailand. Also have a account with Charles Schwab as noted and a Bangkok Bank account which I basically use to annual get my 1 year retirement visa.

I normally just pay the amount but what bothers me is the Thai bank are already making a killing by charging 150 baht which based on the USD, that is nearly 5 dollars which is much higher if a Thai National visiting the U.S. was a ATM in the States which runs much less. Personally Siam a leader in charging this fee is just plain greedy!

I also am very vary as to how much I want to keep in a Thai Bank, although chances are remote I just do not trust the banks here if something big happen like a run on money how much do you think they are going to cover for their bank customers. In the U.S. they have FDIC protection up to 250,000 USD, what is the amount here 100,000 baht?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Both Visa and Mastercard allow it; they just don't like it because most customers end-up blaming Visa/Mastercard for the crappy exchange rate when it fact it was the local ATM/merchant's crappy exchange rate (a.k.a., DCC).

Pib, do we actually know of any specific Thai banking company whose ATMs prompt for DCC when using a VISA logo card to make a withdrawal???

I know MERCHANTS can attempt DCC regardless of the card being used for purchases. But in the past, the DCC on the ATM end was limited to only MasterCard logo ATM transactions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So just to recap at present on the ATM fees situation for foreign VISA cards, I believe we have the following:

150 baht fee:

TMB, max 30,000

BKK Bank, max 20K or 25K

AEON, max 20K

180 baht fee:

Ayudhya

Kasikorn

UOB

Can anyone else fill in the others, for VISA card withdrawals?

Is that for Visa Credit or Debit cards ?

You can add Krungsri Bank and Visa credit card -- 30,000 maximum and 180 Baht fee.

Yes, I clarified above that I was talking about debit card ATM withdrawals.

And, Krungsri is just another name for Bank of Ayudhya... the "yellow" bank.

[JDGRUEN]

My bank in the USA... USAA Savings Bank reimburses ATM charges - even those from Thailand up to about $15.00 each account. And to the best of my account research USAA does not charge a foreign transaction fee for ATM charges -- but does for Credit Card charges ... which I believe is mostly due to MasterCard...

AFAIK, and it's been confirmed here in the past by other USAA banking members, they began charging a 1% foreign currency fee on their foreign debit card transactions quite some time back.

I am just saying - I do the math on test cases of actual transactions and I cannot detect any foreign transaction fee being added... and none are reported separately in my banking records including the monthly statement.

Also as stated - the Thai bank debit card charges are debited into my account - not broken out - but once a month I am reimbursed and it is reported as a line item in my account records. I use two accounts and therefore the $15.00 limit is never exceeded...

Maybe it is because I have a preferred account - USAA member since 1977

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I also am very vary as to how much I want to keep in a Thai Bank, although chances are remote I just do not trust the banks here if something big happen like a run on money how much do you think they are going to cover for their bank customers. In the U.S. they have FDIC protection up to 250,000 USD, what is the amount here 100,000 baht?

It's worth noting here that the Thai government's deposit protection insurance limit on insured deposits per accountholder, per bank is slated to fall from 50 million to a lower 25 million baht as of Aug. 11, 2015. And then further to 1 million baht from Aug. 11, 2016 onwards.

But what's probably more important right now, is that unlike the U.S. FDIC program, Thailand's relatively recent current deposit insurance program has never really been tested in real life, and, its procedures envision a potentially months long delay before receiving reimbursement, which is very much different than the FDIC's timing.

http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My bank in the USA... USAA Savings Bank reimburses ATM charges - even those from Thailand up to about $15.00 each account. And to the best of my account research USAA does not charge a foreign transaction fee for ATM charges -- but does for Credit Card charges ... which I believe is mostly due to MasterCard...

AFAIK, and it's been confirmed here in the past by other USAA banking members, they began charging a 1% foreign currency fee on their foreign debit card transactions quite some time back.

I am just saying - I do the math on test cases of actual transactions and I cannot detect any foreign transaction fee being added... and none are reported separately in my banking records including the monthly statement.

Also as stated - the Thai bank debit card charges are debited into my account - not broken out - but once a month I am reimbursed and it is reported as a line item in my account records. I use two accounts and therefore the $15.00 limit is never exceeded...

Maybe it is because I have a preferred account - USAA member since 1977

A lot of U,S, banks and credit unions don't separate out their foreign currency charges... They just quietly deduct them from the net proceeds you receive for your dollars.

AFAIK, there are no different statuses or tiers for USAA banking customers as regards their 1% fee.

[JDGRUEN]

Bangkok Bank charges 180 Baht ... I use it often -- I have receipts... Now they all charge 180 - except maybe Aeon ... but not sure of that...

My bank, Bangkok, charges me 150 baht per withdrawal from my Canadian account. Always has and continues to do so, the latest withdrawal was just yesterday.

There have been posts referencing using Visa endorsed cards versus MasterCard endorsed cards... Visa cards being charged less... Mine is MasterCard - On this issue - I only know what I pay ...

[nidieunimaitre]

This happened to me 3 times: the yellow bank, Home Pro and Dubai tax Free.

When I mentioned this before, a poster commented that Visa does not allow this scam, only Master Card. Correct?

Both Visa and Mastercard allow it; they just don't like it because most customers end-up blaming Visa/Mastercard for the crappy exchange rate when it fact it was the local ATM/merchant's crappy exchange rate (a.k.a., DCC).

Below is a quote from the Visa website regarding DCC.

What is dynamic currency conversion?

Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC), also referred to as Cardholder Preferred Currency (CPC), is a service offered by merchants – not Visa - in some countries when you are traveling abroad. If you choose to use the DCC service, the merchant will convert the purchase price of goods or services at the point of sale from the currency in which the price (i.e., the merchant's local currency) is displayed into another currency (i.e. your home currency) using an exchange rate that typically includes a service fee.

Here's an example of a DCC transaction:

A U.S. Visa cardholder is in Singapore and decides to purchase a box of chocolates priced at SGD 20. At checkout, the merchant offers the cardholder the option to pay in USD using a DCC service.

The merchant dynamically converts the SGD transaction amount to USD 15.80. The DCC transaction amount and transaction currency (in USD) are disclosed to the cardholder. An exchange rate of 0.79 (1 SGD = .79 USD), which includes a 2.5% mark up (over a wholesale exchange rate) and the 2.5% commission/fee/mark up are also disclosed to the cardholder.

The cardholder actively chooses DCC by checking a box on a printed receipt or pushing a button on an electronic screen and agrees to pay USD 15.80 for the box of chocolates using the exchange rate provided by the merchant that includes a 2.5% fee for the DCC service.

If you do not want to use DCC when making a purchase, then you have the right to refuse the offer and have your transaction billed in the merchant's local currency, which will then use Visa's conversion rate. If you did not agree to DCC, but see it on your bill, then you should ask your issuing bank to contest the charge.

Thanks for the info.

I hope our fellow member Chicog is reading it too, as he is the one who said that Visa is not in this scam....

And yes, it is a scam.

Who would willingly and knowingly choose a worse exchange rate? Merchants and ATMs con their customers into it, and Visa / Mastercard allow it.