Ever noticed how things are completely reversed here?

[Berkshire]

OK maybe ambition is the wrong word. In Farangland the old man is staring at the walls wondering when his children will next visit. I've been to these nursing homes before and they are not happy places, stink of piece, stacked with bodies piling up, with alarms in the doors to alert for escapers. In contrast the old man along the side of the road seemed quite c

content, not full of thoughts, just sitting there. Your example is a perfect illustration of my point.

This was my earlier point exactly. How could you possibly know what that "old (Thai) man along the side of the road" is thinking? How do you know that he's "not full of thoughts?" I know that your answer is going to be that you don't know, but just observing. But how can you observe what someone is thinking? And you're always jumping to conclusions...always negative conclusions.

[squarethecircle]

Berkshire: "This was my earlier point exctly. How could you possibly know what that "old (Thai) man along the side of the road" is thinking? How do you know that he's "not full of thoughts?" I know that your answer is going to be that you don't know, but just observing. But how can you observe what someone is thinking? And you're always jumping to conclusions...always negative conclusions. "

Who said that was a negative conclusion? Seems like some of the great sages (such as Buddha) would say that being able to sit in the same spot, days on end, without being overwhelmed by thoughts (I certainly couldn't, this would drive me nuts), is a gift. I guess the man was thinking, but certainly gave no signs of being discontent with just sitting there, as I would be.

Strange that people seem to think that pointing out obvious opposites between "our" culture and "theirs" (and that was the whole point of bringing up this thread, to see if others found the same) was an attempt at bashing the locals. Quite the opposite, it keeps the days interesting.

[thailiketoo]

Berkshire: "This was my earlier point exctly. How could you possibly know what that "old (Thai) man along the side of the road" is thinking? How do you know that he's "not full of thoughts?" I know that your answer is going to be that you don't know, but just observing. But how can you observe what someone is thinking? And you're always jumping to conclusions...always negative conclusions. "

Who said that was a negative conclusion? Seems like some of the great sages (such as Buddha) would say that being able to sit in the same spot, days on end, without being overwhelmed by thoughts (I certainly couldn't, this would drive me nuts), is a gift. I guess the man was thinking, but certainly gave no signs of being discontent with just sitting there, as I would be.

Strange that people seem to think that pointing out obvious opposites between "our" culture and "theirs" (and that was the whole point of bringing up this thread, to see if others found the same) was an attempt at bashing the locals. Quite the opposite, it keeps the days interesting.

Synonym for reversed is backward and you wonder what?

You wrote, "Yes certainly was not my intent to bash people.......but everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal."

So sum up......Thai people do everything backward and are lazy and have no goals. Not bashing Who you trying to kid?

Edited August 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[bannork]

Thai Logic examples. USA doctor's office open when people are at work 9 -5. Thailand doctor's office open 5 - 9. USA banks close at 5PM when people get off work. Thailand banks close 8 PM giving people a chance to bank after working hours. Some examples of Thai logic. The doctor tells me what kind of medicine I need over the phone. I go to the pharmacy and get it. USA can't do. They want me to pay an extra couple of thousand baht for the doctor to write a prescription. Western logic; get frustrated - take a pill. Thai logic; get frustrated - visit a go go. Do you want me to go on about examples where Thai logic is superior?

Those late banking hours are only at the malls. The rest of them do seem to close around 4 or 5 here, plus you can do almost anything on the internet in the US completely circumventing the need to go into a bank. In fact, my best account, the Schwab brokerage/checking, they dont even have a branch, you just do everything you need online or by way of prepaid (ie good customer service) envelopes.

Things are whack here, let's all face it. They have computers, yet everything is compartmentalized for some odd reason, as if the computers do not exist.

I wont go tit for tat for every point you make, but I will say in general that I have been growing ever more fond of the regulations we have in the West. For example, there are geological survey requirements before a building goes up. Kinda a pain, yes. Guess what, they can't build anything here without it falling apart in less than a year. I don't hear about many buildings falling, but the status quo just seems to be build crap, patch it up, repeat.

One ting that has really been driving me crazy here is when I have a problem at a bank for example, and they can't take care of it (yet someone can of course), they seem to refuse to call the person that can take care of it for you. They tell me to go to that branch! They have phones and fax machines. Another opposite. Not only would I not be told to go to another branch in the west, I probably would never have to do anything than say my mother's maiden name. For me this is the core, the lack of service here. Maybe I am just a homesick, raving lunatic. I have never been homesick in my life though.... truth.

Anyway, nice to see different points of view.

People go to a bank to get money. People go to the doctor to get healed. You can't get money from an ATM or online with a bank book. You can't get a broken arm set on the INTERNET. I don't use free standing ATMs because of safety issues.

I agree with you about the branch thing. It makes no sense to me. They charge you money to withdraw at a branch of the same bank but not your branch. Makes no sense to me.

For me the lack of doctors office hours at convenient times, the prescription required for simple drugs and the lack of a real person to talk to at the bank after 5PM is the core. The lack of service in the West got to me and I came back to Thailand. Minor auto repairs, tire changes, getting my knob polished; small things maybe but expensive big deals in the West.

Minor auto repairs, tire changes, getting my knob polished; small things maybe but expensive big deals in the West.

- you got me here, thailiketoo, are you saying your knob and tires are small things?

[squarethecircle]

"Synonym for reversed is backward and you wonder what?

You wrote, "Yes certainly was not my intent to bash people.......but everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal."

So sum up......Thai people do everything backward and are lazy and have no goals. Not bashing Who you trying to kid?"

You wrote what I said with a negative connotation. The same thing would in a positive light would be:

"People of the East live in a way that often seems like the reversal of how we do it in the West. We are focused, as a result of our religion and underlying societal programming, to be constantly focused on fulfilling our destiny, so we tend to be quite dissatisfied with our current status, even if we may be relatively rich (witness the recent suicide of a man with net worth $35 million). Eastern religious/philosophical systems such as Theravada Buddhism teach that outward fulfillment will never cease suffering, that this can only be done by turning one's eye inward. This fact, together with the fact that SE Asian countries such as Thailand are literally overflowing with agricultural products such as rice and fruits, means that the people and societies are organized in a way that is less obsessed over the future and more focused on the here-and-now."

Might not be totally accurate, might have some stereotypes overlayed onto it, but it is my temporary conclusion after being in-and-out of here for several years, living among Thai people as a western man.

[thailiketoo]

"Synonym for reversed is backward and you wonder what?

You wrote, "Yes certainly was not my intent to bash people.......but everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal."

So sum up......Thai people do everything backward and are lazy and have no goals. Not bashing Who you trying to kid?"

You wrote what I said with a negative connotation. The same thing would in a positive light would be:

"People of the East live in a way that often seems like the reversal of how we do it in the West. We are focused, as a result of our religion and underlying societal programming, to be constantly focused on fulfilling our destiny, so we tend to be quite dissatisfied with our current status, even if we may be relatively rich (witness the recent suicide of a man with net worth $35 million). Eastern religious/philosophical systems such as Theravada Buddhism teach that outward fulfillment will never cease suffering, that this can only be done by turning one's eye inward. This fact, together with the fact that SE Asian countries such as Thailand are literally overflowing with agricultural products such as rice and fruits, means that the people and societies are organized in a way that is less obsessed over the future and more focused on the here-and-now."

Might not be totally accurate, might have some stereotypes overlayed onto it, but it is my temporary conclusion after being in-and-out of here for several years, living among Thai people as a western man.

You wrote, "You wrote what I said with a negative connotation. The same thing would in a positive light would be." (I have no idea what that really means)

"Things are completely reversed here" is negative. Thais are "lazy and have no goals" as opposed to " everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal." Is a major insult.

You think Western people are superior. Don't feel bad so do most posters on Thai Visa. It's not true but methinks they will never tire of writing about it.

Call Me Bwana complex.

It is about time for the, "Thais never invent anything topic."

Edited August 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[squarethecircle]

"(I have no idea what that really means)"

I meant you are trying, for some reason I don't know, to make it look like this was bashing of the locals. Nope, simply noted that things are done oppositely here in many ways, like the Yin and the Yang. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anyways you're welcome to your opinion that this was bashing of the locals, I think westerns are superior, etc. Quite the opposite, I nearly always avoid f-rangs here in upcountry Thailand if at all possible, for reasons I will not state. Again, I was looking for more examples of how things are flipped around here, like "f-rangs love dark skin, people of the east love pale skin". Even a local friend asked me this the other day, why f-rangs like dark skin. I asked him why easterns like white skin. "Because it's beautiful." Touche.

[thailiketoo]

"(I have no idea what that really means)"

I meant you are trying, for some reason I don't know, to make it look like this was bashing of the locals. Nope, simply noted that things are done oppositely here in many ways, like the Yin and the Yang. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anyways you're welcome to your opinion that this was bashing of the locals, I think westerns are superior, etc. Quite the opposite, I nearly always avoid f-rangs here in upcountry Thailand if at all possible, for reasons I will not state. Again, I was looking for more examples of how things are flipped around here, like "f-rangs love dark skin, people of the east love pale skin". Even a local friend asked me this the other day, why f-rangs like dark skin. I asked him why easterns like white skin. "Because it's beautiful." Touche.

Normally one uses the quote function when replying to a post unless you want to be sneaky. So I'll include my post that you didn't.

"Things are completely reversed here" is negative. Thais are "lazy and have no goals" as opposed to " everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal." Is a major insult.

You think Western people are superior. Don't feel bad so do most posters on Thai Visa. It's not true but methinks they will never tire of writing about it.

Call Me Bwana complex.

It is about time for the, "Thais never invent anything topic."

End of post. Below is my reply to your post above.

Things are completely reversed here" is negative. Thais are "lazy and have no goals" as opposed to " everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal." Is a major insult.

From other threads you have started, "living in an alien culture with alien speak I mostly don't understand" Calling the Thai language, "Alien speak" in their own culture is the height of insults. You are the alien not them.

From another thread, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English,"

When you tell someone they speak with, "the most obnoxious tone and voice" That is an insult. A big insult. It does not make any difference if you write, "no offense" it is very very offensive.

From another thread, "Do you ever feel (Thai) people treat you stupid. That is an insult. Because you don't speak Thai people are trying to help you and your reaction is they treat you stupid, converse in alien speak and are lazy and have no long term goals.

Millions of dollars of Skin lightening products are sold in America and around the world. I don't really think we need to go there. Do we?

Talk about a bad case of ethnocentrism you got the ebola branch of the ethnocentrism problem.

eth·no·cen·trism

ˌeTHnōˈsentrizəm/

adjective

noun: ethnocentrism

1. evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture.

   Ethnocentrism is not good. The idea is to evaluate their culture by their standards and not yours. In Scotland men wear kilts in America men wear pants. That does not mean men from Scotland are less masculine it simply means that some men in Scotland wear kilts. What would be appropriate in Scotland may not be appropriate in America but that does not mean it is weird or backward or alien to use the words that you use to describe Thais.

Edited August 22, 2014 by thailiketoo

[squarethecircle]

"(I have no idea what that really means)"

I meant you are trying, for some reason I don't know, to make it look like this was bashing of the locals. Nope, simply noted that things are done oppositely here in many ways, like the Yin and the Yang. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anyways you're welcome to your opinion that this was bashing of the locals, I think westerns are superior, etc. Quite the opposite, I nearly always avoid f-rangs here in upcountry Thailand if at all possible, for reasons I will not state. Again, I was looking for more examples of how things are flipped around here, like "f-rangs love dark skin, people of the east love pale skin". Even a local friend asked me this the other day, why f-rangs like dark skin. I asked him why easterns like white skin. "Because it's beautiful." Touche.

Normally one uses the quote function when replying to a post unless you want to be sneaky. So I'll include my post that you didn't.

"Things are completely reversed here" is negative. Thais are "lazy and have no goals" as opposed to " everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal." Is a major insult.

You think Western people are superior. Don't feel bad so do most posters on Thai Visa. It's not true but methinks they will never tire of writing about it.

Call Me Bwana complex.

It is about time for the, "Thais never invent anything topic."

End of post. Below is my reply to your post above.

Things are completely reversed here" is negative. Thais are "lazy and have no goals" as opposed to " everyone I know is full of ambition, always trying to work towards some future goal." Is a major insult.

From other threads you have started, "living in an alien culture with alien speak I mostly don't understand" Calling the Thai language, "Alien speak" in their own culture is the height of insults. You are the alien not them.

From another thread, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English,"

When you tell someone they speak with, "the most obnoxious tone and voice" That is an insult. A big insult. It does not make any difference if you write, "no offense" it is very very offensive.

From another thread, "Do you ever feel (Thai) people treat you stupid. That is an insult. Because you don't speak Thai people are trying to help you and your reaction is they treat you stupid, converse in alien speak and are lazy and have no long term goals.

Millions of dollars of Skin lightening products are sold in America and around the world. I don't really think we need to go there. Do we?

Talk about a bad case of ethnocentrism you got the ebola branch of the ethnocentrism problem.

eth·no·cen·trism

ˌeTHnōˈsentrizəm/

adjective

noun: ethnocentrism

1. evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture.

   Ethnocentrism is not good. The idea is to evaluate their culture by their standards and not yours. In Scotland men wear kilts in America men wear pants. That does not mean men from Scotland are less masculine it simply means that some men in Scotland wear kilts. What would be appropriate in Scotland may not be appropriate in America but that does not mean it is weird or backward or alien to use the words that you use to describe Thais.

OK I took up half the page and used the quote function, does that make you happy?

I do find that "10% English" (the obnoxious kind) obnoxious but - if you read through that thread - I also noted other examples, such as Mandarin/Cantonese spoken by the nouveaux rich Chinese brats, equally obnoxious. I concluded in that thread that it is either spoilt brats speaking this, or people who are using English as a weapon to extract money out of the pockets of foreigners, all about the intent in delivery; or maybe it's just some are annoyed with the daily barrage of f-rangs, I try to avoid those places though. I was not to referring to "non-native English", just English spoken by non-natives where they use the pronunciation and grammar from their own language. That would be dick-ish, just like the Chinese rap video poking fun of westerners' tonal mistakes, again dick-ish.

And yes from my POV it is an alien language, from their POV passa f-rang is an alien language. No judgement implied - this is not ethnocentrism as ethnocentrism implies a value judgement. But you seem to have it in your head that I am trying to bash the locals, you're welcome to your opinion which has been clearly stated. Again one of my modus operandi's here is to generally avoid interaction with f-rangs, not because I'm one of the "I am Thai" idiots but because of too many negative interactions. There is a local f-rang bar here which I also dutifully avoid for good reason, not the least of which I prefer to enjoy my beer without some mosquito fondling my wallet. That's not where the good locals hang out, and that's not the behavior of someone who considers his own to be superior.

SO back to the OP, the whole point of which was to find other examples of things being "reversed" or "flipped around" or "ying-yanged".

[thailiketoo]

OK I took up half the page and used the quote function, does that make you happy?

I do find that "10% English" (the obnoxious kind) obnoxious but - if you read through that thread - I also noted other examples, such as Mandarin/Cantonese spoken by the nouveaux rich Chinese brats, equally obnoxious. I concluded in that thread that it is either spoilt brats speaking this, or people who are using English as a weapon to extract money out of the pockets of foreigners, all about the intent in delivery; or maybe it's just some are annoyed with the daily barrage of f-rangs, I try to avoid those places though. I was not to referring to "non-native English", just English spoken by non-natives where they use the pronunciation and grammar from their own language. That would be dick-ish, just like the Chinese rap video poking fun of westerners' tonal mistakes, again dick-ish.

And yes from my POV it is an alien language, from their POV passa f-rang is an alien language. No judgement implied - this is not ethnocentrism as ethnocentrism implies a value judgement. But you seem to have it in your head that I am trying to bash the locals, you're welcome to your opinion which has been clearly stated. Again one of my modus operandi's here is to generally avoid interaction with f-rangs, not because I'm one of the "I am Thai" idiots but because of too many negative interactions. There is a local f-rang bar here which I also dutifully avoid for good reason, not the least of which I prefer to enjoy my beer without some mosquito fondling my wallet. That's not where the good locals hang out, and that's not the behavior of someone who considers his own to be superior.

SO back to the OP, the whole point of which was to find other examples of things being "reversed" or "flipped around" or "ying-yanged".

In the previous thread you wrote, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English,' Now it's 10%?

I know from your point of view it is an alien language. That is the whole thing of what I am trying to get through to you.

The evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture or point of view is ethnocentrism. It is a malady that afflicts the untraveled and naive.

When you write, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English" that is an evaluation. Sorry but it is. Things being completely reversed here is an evaluation. Thais not having ambition, and no working towards some future goal." Is a major insult and an evaluation. A Thai reading this thread or almost any of your threads would be insulted.

In the book, The Ugly American a Burmese journalist says, "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land."

You think Thais talk in, "alien speak and are weird." That is an evaluation.

[canuckamuck]

Ever notice how this thread sucks now?

[StreetCowboy]

 

OK I took up half the page and used the quote function, does that make you happy?

I do find that "10% English" (the obnoxious kind) obnoxious but - if you read through that thread - I also noted other examples, such as Mandarin/Cantonese spoken by the nouveaux rich Chinese brats, equally obnoxious. I concluded in that thread that it is either spoilt brats speaking this, or people who are using English as a weapon to extract money out of the pockets of foreigners, all about the intent in delivery; or maybe it's just some are annoyed with the daily barrage of f-rangs, I try to avoid those places though. I was not to referring to "non-native English", just English spoken by non-natives where they use the pronunciation and grammar from their own language. That would be dick-ish, just like the Chinese rap video poking fun of westerners' tonal mistakes, again dick-ish.

And yes from my POV it is an alien language, from their POV passa f-rang is an alien language. No judgement implied - this is not ethnocentrism as ethnocentrism implies a value judgement. But you seem to have it in your head that I am trying to bash the locals, you're welcome to your opinion which has been clearly stated. Again one of my modus operandi's here is to generally avoid interaction with f-rangs, not because I'm one of the "I am Thai" idiots but because of too many negative interactions. There is a local f-rang bar here which I also dutifully avoid for good reason, not the least of which I prefer to enjoy my beer without some mosquito fondling my wallet. That's not where the good locals hang out, and that's not the behavior of someone who considers his own to be superior.

SO back to the OP, the whole point of which was to find other examples of things being "reversed" or "flipped around" or "ying-yanged".

In the previous thread you wrote, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English,' Now it's 10%?

I know from your point of view it is an alien language. That is the whole thing of what I am trying to get through to you.

The evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture or point of view is ethnocentrism. It is a malady that afflicts the untraveled and naive.

When you write, "No offense to Thailand but the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English" that is an evaluation. Sorry but it is. Things being completely reversed here is an evaluation. Thais not having ambition, and no working towards some future goal." Is a major insult and an evaluation. A Thai reading this thread or almost any of your threads would be insulted.

In the book, The Ugly American a Burmese journalist says, "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land."

You think Thais talk in, "alien speak and are weird." That is an evaluation.

 

To be fair, he does unpleasantly negatively generalise about farangs as well. We should just be grateful that he does not come into the pub. Thank heaven for small mercies

SC

[squarethecircle]

"Sorry but it is. Things being completely reversed here is an evaluation. Thais not having ambition, and no working towards some future goal." Is a major insult and an evaluation. A Thai reading this thread or almost any of your threads would be insulted.

In the book, The Ugly American a Burmese journalist says, "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land."

From wikipedia: "Ethnocentrism is judging..." Can you point out the judgement anywhere?

OK the statement about "not having ambition, not working towards some future goal" isn't accurate, I agree with that. But there does seem to be some kind of satisfaction in the here-and-now, lack of concern about the future, that strikes me as the opposite of what I was around back in Farangland (US to be precise). I do find Chinese tend to have the same sort of concern about the future, perhaps because they have to in order to get ahead of the rest of the pack.

OK and it was not my intention to insult Thais, perhaps I worded some things wrong but the main point is accurate, but you did intentionally launch a personal insult against me or at least my people. If that's how you feel fair enough, let's stay on topic.

[thailiketoo]

"Sorry but it is. Things being completely reversed here is an evaluation. Thais not having ambition, and no working towards some future goal." Is a major insult and an evaluation. A Thai reading this thread or almost any of your threads would be insulted.

In the book, The Ugly American a Burmese journalist says, "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land."

From wikipedia: "Ethnocentrism is judging..." Can you point out the judgement anywhere?

OK the statement about "not having ambition, not working towards some future goal" isn't accurate, I agree with that. But there does seem to be some kind of satisfaction in the here-and-now, lack of concern about the future, that strikes me as the opposite of what I was around back in Farangland (US to be precise). I do find Chinese tend to have the same sort of concern about the future, perhaps because they have to in order to get ahead of the rest of the pack.

OK and it was not my intention to insult Thais, perhaps I worded some things wrong but the main point is accurate, but you did intentionally launch a personal insult against me or at least my people. If that's how you feel fair enough, let's stay on topic.

You wrote, "From wikipedia: "Ethnocentrism is judging..." Can you point out the judgement anywhere?"

Yes I can, " the bargirls and I would say 20% of the locals that talk to me in English have what has to be the most obnoxious tone and voice of non-native English" Obnoxious tone and voice is a judgment of tone and voice.

What is the reverse of good? What is the reverse of beautiful? What is the reverse of smart? What is the reverse of kind? What is the reverse of moral?

I don't think it was your intention to insult but when you tell people they sound obnoxious they are mostly insulted. For sure they don't think it's good. So maybe now you know. People get insulted when you say insulting things about them. Lazy - insult. No goals - insult.

Edited August 22, 2014 by thailiketoo

[squarethecircle]

"I don't think it was your intention to insult but when you tell people they sound obnoxious they are mostly insulted. For sure they don't think it's good. So maybe now you know. People get insulted when you say insulting things about them. Lazy - insult. No goals - insult."

OK I agree with you there, and that's not an accurate statement to boot, so let's rephrase it. The country has rice and longan growing out its ears, so the people don't have to be as obsessively focused on planning for the future and the like as, say, people in China or northern Europe who had/have to worry about starvation. Plus they're traditional style Buddhist, at least at best, which (if you read about life of Buddha) came out of similar circumstances, having abundant resources and being able to go sit under the Bodhi tree. And generally the Thais with the obnoxious voices should know about it. Like the BK taxi driver with the rat english voice who ripped my pal off (actually most regular taxi drivers i got are good) then gave me the evil eye when I pointed it out, or the mosquito witch who stole another pal's house. Both had obnoxious voices for sure, I'd say most decent Thais would agree.

OK now we cleared that up got any more examples of the ying-yang reversal here? Such as "They find paler skin beautiful, we find darker skin beautiful".

[thailiketoo]

"I don't think it was your intention to insult but when you tell people they sound obnoxious they are mostly insulted. For sure they don't think it's good. So maybe now you know. People get insulted when you say insulting things about them. Lazy - insult. No goals - insult."

OK I agree with you there, and that's not an accurate statement to boot, so let's rephrase it. The country has rice and longan growing out its ears, so the people don't have to be as obsessively focused on planning for the future and the like as, say, people in China or northern Europe who had/have to worry about starvation. Plus they're traditional style Buddhist, at least at best, which (if you read about life of Buddha) came out of similar circumstances, having abundant resources and being able to go sit under the Bodhi tree. And generally the Thais with the obnoxious voices should know about it. Like the BK taxi driver with the rat english voice who ripped my pal off (actually most regular taxi drivers i got are good) then gave me the evil eye when I pointed it out, or the mosquito witch who stole another pal's house. Both had obnoxious voices for sure, I'd say most decent Thais would agree.

OK now we cleared that up got any more examples of the ying-yang reversal here? Such as "They find paler skin beautiful, we find darker skin beautiful".

You may want to add how many millions of dollars we (Americans) spend on skin whitening products.

Try looking at people as individuals instead of all the stereotyping stuff.

Edited August 22, 2014 by thailiketoo

[bannork]

I remember being on the bus as a nipper and mother telling me to give up my seat to the old man who'd just got on. I didn't mind, thinking one day my time would come. But now the roles are reversed, I'm still giving up my seat, but I'm the older one and the tots are taking my seat!

[squarethecircle]

"You may want to add how many millions of dollars we (Americans) spend on skin whitening products.

Try looking at people as individuals instead of all the stereotyping stuff."

Unable to find such information, in fact googling it turned up skin whitening in India and Hong Kong. Anyways it's not stereotyping, the tanning industry in the west is vast, quite the opposite of here. Also now we see the PTB here flip-flopping around on the whole visa crackdown, first a month ago there was the dictum about no in-outs by August 12, now it's August 23 and they saw it wasn't going to work so now it's the "green light". Quite the opposite (well same same but different) of the immigration approach back home, which is plan it out using laws set in stone.

Any other examples of the "ying-yang effect"?

Edited August 23, 2014 by squarethecircle

[thailiketoo]

"You may want to add how many millions of dollars we (Americans) spend on skin whitening products.

Try looking at people as individuals instead of all the stereotyping stuff."

Unable to find such information, in fact googling it turned up skin whitening in India and Hong Kong. Anyways it's not stereotyping, the tanning industry in the west is vast, quite the opposite of here. Also now we see the PTB here flip-flopping around on the whole visa crackdown, first a month ago there was the dictum about no in-outs by August 12, now it's August 23 and they saw it wasn't going to work so now it's the "green light". Quite the opposite (well same same but different) of the immigration approach back home, which is plan it out using laws set in stone.

Any other examples of the "ying-yang effect"?

You wrote, "They find paler skin beautiful, we find darker skin beautiful......Anyways it's not stereotyping, the tanning industry in the west is vast, quite the opposite of here."

"They (Thai people) find paler skin beautiful" is stereotyping. Maybe you should look up the definition. A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing: Stereotyping.

The global market for skin lighteners is projected to reach US $19.8 billion by 2018. You are trying to make the case that white folks want to be dark and dark folks like to be white. It has nothing to do with Thailand.

Dark folks in America want to be white too unless you believe the Michael Jackson stuff about his skin condition. Asian people are different that Caucasian people. In 2011, people of color made up 36.2% of the US population (13.1% black, 5.0% Asian, 16.7% Hispanic or Latino Origin, 1.2% American Indian and Alaska Native Persons, and .2% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Persons. About 100,000,000 people in the USA who are not into tanning. Yes we all know.

Now you want to turn your thread in to a political forum? You wrote, "Also now we see the PTB here flip-flopping around on the whole visa crackdown," Perhaps you would be advised to read "Non-political topics in General which are hijacked with political arguments will see posts removed without further notice."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/468924-policy-in-general-regarding-thailand-political-discussions/

Edited August 23, 2014 by thailiketoo

[squarethecircle]

""They (Thai people) find paler skin beautiful" is stereotyping. Maybe you should look up the definition. A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing: Stereotyping. "

Then add "tend to".

"The global market for skin lighteners is projected to reach US $19.8 billion by 2018. You are trying to make the case that white folks want to be dark and dark folks like to be white. It has nothing to do with Thailand."

Google search for "skin whitening in the US" returns results on skin whitening in Nigeria, India, and Hong Kong. Thailand would be far down the list but just check out the products in the local 7/11, or note the forum questions with f-rang females in Thailand having trouble finding skin products without the whitener added.

"Now you want to turn your thread in to a political forum? You wrote, "Also now we see the PTB here flip-flopping around on the whole visa crackdown," Perhaps you would be advised to read "Non-political topics in General which are hijacked with political arguments will see posts removed without further notice.""

No political arguments involved, simply a point about the style of how things are run here. Anyways I suggest keeping with the facts and not directing hostile comments towards other posters. So I'll ask again: apart from the "lack of planning/in the moment style" of running things, and the general "lighter-darker skin" flip, are there any other examples TV posters have noticed of the "ying-yang effect" where the way of running things here is the exact opposite of how we do it in the west. I'll add another one I've come across: small-mindedness and insecurity with people from other groups is present around the world. In the west this tends to be masked over with "political correctness" but is still present, whereas here it is communicated directly, ex: referring to the white man as "the f-rang".

[thailiketoo]

""They (Thai people) find paler skin beautiful" is stereotyping. Maybe you should look up the definition. A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing: Stereotyping. "

Then add "tend to".

"The global market for skin lighteners is projected to reach US $19.8 billion by 2018. You are trying to make the case that white folks want to be dark and dark folks like to be white. It has nothing to do with Thailand."

Google search for "skin whitening in the US" returns results on skin whitening in Nigeria, India, and Hong Kong. Thailand would be far down the list but just check out the products in the local 7/11, or note the forum questions with f-rang females in Thailand having trouble finding skin products without the whitener added.

"Now you want to turn your thread in to a political forum? You wrote, "Also now we see the PTB here flip-flopping around on the whole visa crackdown," Perhaps you would be advised to read "Non-political topics in General which are hijacked with political arguments will see posts removed without further notice.""

No political arguments involved, simply a point about the style of how things are run here. Anyways I suggest keeping with the facts and not directing hostile comments towards other posters. So I'll ask again: apart from the "lack of planning/in the moment style" of running things, and the general "lighter-darker skin" flip, are there any other examples TV posters have noticed of the "ying-yang effect" where the way of running things here is the exact opposite of how we do it in the west. I'll add another one I've come across: small-mindedness and insecurity with people from other groups is present around the world. In the west this tends to be masked over with "political correctness" but is still present, whereas here it is communicated directly, ex: referring to the white man as "the f-rang".

Policy In General Regarding Thailand Election/Political Discussions

As a result of the great increase in posts about politics in Thailand, we are requesting that members keep political discussion confined to threads already open in the Thailand News Forum.

On the white skin issue Thailand is no different than any other place with dark skinned people including America and all of Asia. They buy a lot of skin whitening products. The global market for skin lighteners is projected to reach US $19.8 billion by 2018.

Thais in my experience are far more accepting of minorities than most cultures. I would say they tend to see people the same way we do in the West. Show me the money being the first question in Issan or NYC.