Editorial: Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy'

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EDITORIAL
Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy'
The Nation

The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West

BANGKOK: -- Contrary to opinions being voiced in Thailand, democracy has not been patented by the West. Our intellectual elite should stop spreading the false idea that "Western-style democracy" does not fit Thai society.

It might be true that popular perceptions of the nature of power and power arrangements are different in the East. But such perceptions should not be seized upon by the Thai elite to legitimise their claim to power.

Philosophers have analysed the nature of power in Western society as founded on principles of individual autonomy and identity, while power in the Eastern world is something that tends to transcend the individual. In simple terms, Western culture emphasises individuality, while its Eastern counterparts lean more towards a communitarian ethos.

Western individualism is reflected governance that is "people-centred" while the East's communitarianism has systems of governance more closely modelled on the family. In theory, governments in the West have an obligation to deliver benefits to the individuals who vote them in. Governments in the Eastern world, though, tend to more like paternalistic families, with each individual member subordinate to a single head. As a result, governance in the West is usually more accountable, politics in the East more opaque.

Over time the trend in the West has been toward democracy and respect for the rights of the individual, while we in the East seemed to have ended up with greater authoritarianism.

But this is neither an inevitable nor the final destiny. Asian perceptions about power, government and the state have developed and changed through war, colonisation and education. Individuals in Eastern societies have been enjoying or fighting for full autonomy and power for hundreds of years. In recent years we have seen popular uprisings across the hemisphere as people demand a greater say in the governance of their countries.

Many of the elite in Thailand were educated in the West and equipped with theories of democracy that emphasise the power of the individual. Yet they insist on telling their countrymen that what they learned in Western schools and universities does not fit our society because emphasising the rights of the individual challenges the status quo.

However, history has already judged that individuals have the right to rule themselves. Any form of governance is simply an arrangement to share power among individuals. And each individual is equal, none better than the other. Government and other political institutions are simply forums by which individuals and groups of individuals negotiate their power and interests. No one has the right to rule over the other. Government, in any form, is obligated to deliver services and benefits to the people, not to dictate to the people.

In the Thai context, individuals have risen up periodically through history to demand their rights. The struggles in 1932 to turn the country into a democracy and the uprisings in 1973 and 1992 are all clear evidence that Thais will exercise their power in the cause of democracy to topple autocrats and dictators. Ordinary citizens realised long ago that they are crucial part of the state and its construction.

Historically, the elite and the military have jealously guarded the notion that they are superior to the common people. They have insisted that democracy merely delivers bad politicians to parliament, but they never realised that people often consider them politicians too, and little better than their elected counterparts.

Thailand is in the midst of a reform process, which the military junta and the elite have guaranteed will bring us "perfect" democracy. But if democracy is to have any meaning, the power, authority and interests of the individual citizen must be taken into account. The rights of the individual must be respected in every society, whether in Asia or the West.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Dont-be-fooled-by-Thai-style-democracy-30241208.html

-- The Nation 2014-08-19

[ukrules]

There's an argument to be made that 'Western style democracy' isn't really working out so well in the west...

Edited August 18, 2014 by ukrules

[zaphod reborn]

To date, Thai style democracy has been nothing but a cleptocracy.

[terryp]

Modern democracy is just a step away from fascism in reality ...the US is a perfect example

[Snig27]

Four of the most powerful countries in Asia - Japan, Indonesia, South Korea and India practise "western style democracy" as do large parts of South America and South Africa. Is it flawed? Yes of course, but it's far and away the best system we have on offer globally, including Thailand.

I'd love some of the dimwits who loudly trumpet the notion that "Western-style democracy" does not work in Asia to wander across to Indonesia and make that claim in modern Jakarta. You wouldn't last long before you were put in your blinkered self-serving place. Suharto made that claim loudly over the years and his place in Indonesian history as a military despot is now secure.

Great editorial in the Nation (sometimes they can do it ...)

Edited August 19, 2014 by Snig27

[EnzoRippo]

Excellent article for a newspaper AGAINST democracy and FOR coup d'état.

So excellent that I see there some possible lese-majesté crimes.

[BSJ]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

[Snig27]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

So you vote them out ...

[smedly]

It's not perfect anywhere but some are far worse than others

Constantly using the word Democracy by autocratic governments does not make them democratic but some of the uneducated might think it does

Organisations using the word in their name is a rouge and an attempt to deceive

I ignore the constant references (or popular buzz words) in Thailand and look at exactly what they are doing - Thaksin began with "reconciliation" rammed down peoples throats for months when in reality the country was falling apart

The Reds constantly used the word "democratic" from their stages and TV stations when in reality they were ordering people to go out and murder and if you asked any one of them what the word meant, I don't think they could answer - it would be something like " we win vote - we have total power - we can do what we want - try and stop us - you die"

History doesn't lie - actions speak louder than words - if I am walking forward slower than you and shout I going backwards - will you believe me when you look and see ? not if you look at everything in your view instead of just me

[smedly]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

So you vote them out ...

not if they control most of the voters by bribes - intimidation and brainwashing

[siampolee]

Defining democracy.

Now there is a challenge on a par with the ''Labours of Hercules'' in the magnitude of the explanation or even the understanding of the problem posed by the question .

A failing system of government, which like communism works in principle but fails in practice.
ALL democracies end up serving the needs of rich interest groups and detach themselves from the populous. which in turn results in the majority of the people being governed by a minority.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=democracy

Edited August 19, 2014 by siampolee

[ChrisY1]

True democracy will take generations, if ever, to be realised in Thailand.

The old adage that if you keep lying to the masses, they will eventually believe you......very true here.....all sides of the divide...and now the military, rattle on about "Democracy in Thailand".....when really, it's nothing other than almost absolute freedom for the elite....humble pie for the masses.....complain too loudly, and you will be quietened!

[h90]

That article can be only called silly.....

[mrmicbkktxl]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

The problem in Thailand is the people who got elected get always kicked out by army,royalists and mafia elite

[canuckamuck]

The problem is not democracy, the problem is that the law is not regularly applied; so people with good connections do as they please. What difference does it make about how the people get into office, when there are so many above the law. And those in political office use it only to manipulate the system for their own financial gains. You can't have democracy under these conditions no matter how perfect the election. Democracy requires an unbiased judiciary, a free press, and adherence to the rule of law. All MIA here.

They say democracy needs time to get established here. What other country stuffed it up for 80 years straight? they have had generations to figure out democracy, and it is not that difficult to understand. Children can understand the concept. No the problem is not that they do not understand it. The problem is that this is actually a feudal system masquerading as a democracy, to satisfy western ideology. There is no will to be ruled by the people, and the people have been trained to keep their place.

It would be much better if they just accepted that and made the most of their strengths.

[brain150]

The real problem is that western societies think they have a democracy !

I would not be aware of ANY western country that has a democracy !!!!

[longway]

Four of the most powerful countries in Asia - Japan, Indonesia, South Korea and India practise "western style democracy" as do large parts of South America and South Africa. Is it flawed? Yes of course, but it's far and away the best system we have on offer globally, including Thailand.

I'd love some of the dimwits who loudly trumpet the notion that "Western-style democracy" does not work in Asia to wander across to Indonesia and make that claim in modern Jakarta. You wouldn't last long before you were put in your blinkered self-serving place. Suharto made that claim loudly over the years and his place in Indonesian history as a military despot is now secure.

Great editorial in the Nation (sometimes they can do it ...)

Western style democracy is not an option. It relies on uncorrupt and independent institutions. What us dim witted and laughable is imagining that places like india, south america and south africa practice 'western style democracy'. 55555555 Edited August 19, 2014 by longway

[rametindallas]

Modern democracy is just a step away from fascism in reality ...the US is a perfect example

The American form of government.

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

[NextStationBangkok]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

Edited August 19, 2014 by NextStationBangkok

[canuckamuck]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

Of course if the two parties are indistinguishable or are controlled by the same interest groups then you are back to no choice at all.

[Bluespunk]

'Don't be fooled by 'Thai-style democracy'

Don't worry. No one is.

[bobmac10]

Modern democracy is just a step away from fascism in reality ...the US is a perfect example

What utter dribble, I've never heard such rubbish.

Nationalism is an infantile thing. It is the measles of mankind.”

― Albert Einstein

When a right wing military government can tell you to stop saying anything they don't like : that's fascism

[longway]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

If you had even the slightest inkling what a true democracy is you would not be fooled into thinking what you have in the west are democracies, you are as indoctrinated as any thai. However they are much better than what thailand has, but coup or no coup that style of governance is not even remotely a realistic option for the forseeable future.

Edited August 19, 2014 by longway

[bobmac10]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

The problem in Thailand is the people who got elected get always kicked out by army,royalists and mafia elite

Whether the mask is labeled fascism, democracy, or dictatorship of the proletariat, our great adversary remains the apparatus—the bureaucracy, the police, the military. Not the one facing us across the frontier of the battle lines, which is not so much our enemy as our brothers' enemy, but the one that calls itself our protector and makes us its slaves. No matter what the circumstances, the worst betrayal will always be to subordinate ourselves to this apparatus and to trample underfoot, in its service, all human values in ourselves and in others.”

― Simone Weil

[upena]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

[h90]

The problem with democracy is the people we often elect in the democracy have a different view of what democracy means!

So you vote them out ...

How do you do that with either vote buying and/or all the media under control and/or all the available parties offer the same?

You are too focused on Thailand: For example: how would you vote them out in USA? The last 150 years there were the same 2 parties in power. Either the people were complete happy the last 150 years or they just had no way to vote them out.

Or why didn't the people of East Germany vote Honecker out?

[ChrisY1]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

[junk1e]

Western style democracy has never worked in Thailand and never will until widespread corruption is got rid of. The NCPO is doing more to rid the country of this scourge than any elected government has ever done. I hope they have the willpower to stay in control until Thailand is cleaned up. Problem will be once elections are reintroduced will things just go back to the way they were before.

[mariner16]

True democracy starts with respecting the ordinary people votes, and trust each other's votes, more importantly people trust and respecting the ruling parties and opposition parties equally. For example in the US the vote difference is only 2-3% between ruling and opposition parties. If a party lost in this election does not mean that they don't have power, they have voice and voting power in the senante and in congress. That comes from right education and learning about democracy and politcal awareness. There is a role for everyone in this, like judiciary, press freedom, parliment and election commission. If one of them does not function correctly, the mistrust will grow in society and we will undermind the votes, and people don't come forward to vote, then all sort of problem starts. If i start pointing out the such good democratic countries, there will be lot of racial hatered comments may come here, i just keep my mouth shut for now.

Of course if the two parties are indistinguishable or are controlled by the same interest groups then you are back to no choice at all.

A true proportional representation system and coalition government of the left or right will give the electorate a choice.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Thais seem to like constitutional dictatorships the most

Probably more correct than you think......they've been living in this manner for so long....

Most Thais are not educated enough to figure out what actually happens around them.The educated[bkk elite,royalists,army]take full advantage of that.This will not change until poor Thais get also a chance for better education,but this won't happen in near future