Language schools suffering: Thailand

[eeworldwide]

It's very simple, really.

As usual, it boils down to money.

Many Thai people are very lazy, but they LOVE money. They don't want to go through the hassle of registering people properly and applying for the work permits etc because it costs them money and time.

If you give a Thai person money, don't ever expect to get it back, if you have a problem with the service etc.

(That said - my biggest victory to date was when the local electricity authority bought me a brand new iMac for 60K, after blowing mine up on christmas day when they nearly destroyed my street by pulling down a pylon and ripping out all the electric and telephone cables. Granted, it did them 7 months to cough up - but with gentle patience and perseverance we got what we wanted.)

However - I digress. I really hope this crackdown continues, although one hates to see others put in a spot, but this is the only way that some of these "schools" are going to realise that rules are put in place for a reason, and that spending your life in the pursuit of having more money than Mrs Jones across the way, is not the way to go about things.

[gbswales]

The vast pool of talent present in "retired" people is wasted here, restricting their participation benefits few if any local people.

You are joking of course... most genuine retirees would have no interest at all in being teachers.

By definition if they are a teacher then they are not a retiree.

They are retired from their previous career!

I was about to say that myself. People retire from jobs thich consumed a large part of their life however that doesnt mean to say that they want to vegitate and do nothing for the rest of their lives. If someone has finished their career and is receiving a pension then they are a retiree, wanting to do a few hours work to either stimulate their minds, keep active or even supplement a pension not quite sufficient for their needs is not a change of status as such (other than in current visa terms)

Many of these language schools provide instruction for students who struggle to meet the current low fees - often they are collecting payments weekly or even daily depending on whether the student has enough money that week. If the wages rise the fees will rise and therefore fewer poor people will be able to learn

[casualbiker]

I was offered 230 thb per hour to teach SAT Math. I seriously doubt they would have gotten me the paperwork. No need to jeopardize a perfectly good O-A. Plenty of takers, though. It is necessary to eliminate the illegals. Unfortunately, it may have to get worse (for the students) before it gets better. I would not object to proving my health insurance at all, and I know a lot of the retirees lie through their teeth about the 65000 per month.....often more like 6500. So, yeah, immigration wonders why these people can't pay their medical bills. Selfish as can be. Some were likely in Pattaya bars for 10 years straight, without missing a night (or morning). If they had put aside 100 thb every time they went to a bar......and now carried a high deductible...they could practically pay their premiums with the interest. Health care is so much cheaper here than the US; yet many of the expats refuse to pay their fair share, but instead rely on "help me" pages on Facebook, when they do a drunken motorcycle crash.

Possibly because most private insurance here and abroad don't cover motorcycle accidents and when they do it's only 60-80% of what's charged .. OK if they take you to a government hospital NOT so if they take you to a private hospital!

But I do GET where your coming from.

[ryan handsome]

And now I know that the minimum taxable monthly salary is 50,000 Baht. I'm paying tax monthly for so many years with my salary below the amount above. I need to call my agency!

[anon467367354]

"The minimum, taxable monthly salary for most nationalities is 50,000 baht." What about changing these silly draconian laws, and actually adapt the tax to the real salary, and not on one based on race or nationality.

Time to wake up and step in to the 21st century. Give residency and work permit to those married to a Thai national, ease up burocracy for work permits....wishful thinking probably.

Thai laws are made on another planet far from reality, no wonder so many break the law.

So if 50,000 THB monthly is required salary for a work permit, then how do those from the Philippines get work permits when they are paid

half what a native speaker would be earning. I thought for some reason it was 60,000 THB per month but that may have changed.

I don't think a native Thai speaker would be earning more than any other teacher in a school in the west teaching Thai, not sure why

the native speakers here expect so much more, twice or three times what the Thai or other teachers make.

what is it that makes English so special that foreign English teachers get paid so much more?

If you want to live in Thailand, then accept whatever it is that they pay everybody else. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you're living here because of the money, if you don't like the pay then you can move. If you're living here because you really like

Thailand, then the money shouldn't really matter.

But they should make it easier for all to work and pay tax and let people work for whoever wishes to hire them, just like the Thai enjoy when

they go to countries in the west. How about a green card and a visa that says you can stay because you are not a burden to society?

[fisherd3]

Awful. Why is it so difficult to get a working visa in Thailand? Thailand needs to follow in South Koreas footsteps. All of the paperwork is done while the prospective teacher is in his/her home country. Before I taught in SK I needed my bachelors degree notarized and apostilled. The same with my FBI check. Included was my sealed transcript. Once done I sent the items to my recruiter who then secured my working visa for the year. The process took 3 months mainly because of the FBI check.

Why can't Thailand implement something similar?

Because Thailand (state) does not want long stay farang for any reason.

[quidnunc]

It's very simple, really.

As usual, it boils down to money.

Many Thai people are very lazy, but they LOVE money. They don't want to go through the hassle of registering people properly and applying for the work permits etc because it costs them money and time.

If you give a Thai person money, don't ever expect to get it back, if you have a problem with the service etc.

(That said - my biggest victory to date was when the local electricity authority bought me a brand new iMac for 60K, after blowing mine up on christmas day when they nearly destroyed my street by pulling down a pylon and ripping out all the electric and telephone cables. Granted, it did them 7 months to cough up - but with gentle patience and perseverance we got what we wanted.)

However - I digress. I really hope this crackdown continues, although one hates to see others put in a spot, but this is the only way that some of these "schools" are going to realise that rules are put in place for a reason, and that spending your life in the pursuit of having more money than Mrs Jones across the way, is not the way to go about things.

No doubt the rules are put in place for a reason or reasons. The question is whether or not the reasons are beneficial or harmful to the nation.

[SuwadeeS]

There are too many laws based on race or nationality. This way they will never get ready for the ASEAN community.

'Heil' Thailand.

[benj005]

It's very simple, really.

As usual, it boils down to money.

Many Thai people are very lazy, but they LOVE money. They don't want to go through the hassle of registering people properly and applying for the work permits etc because it costs them money and time.

If you give a Thai person money, don't ever expect to get it back, if you have a problem with the service etc.

(That said - my biggest victory to date was when the local electricity authority bought me a brand new iMac for 60K, after blowing mine up on christmas day when they nearly destroyed my street by pulling down a pylon and ripping out all the electric and telephone cables. Granted, it did them 7 months to cough up - but with gentle patience and perseverance we got what we wanted.)

However - I digress. I really hope this crackdown continues, although one hates to see others put in a spot, but this is the only way that some of these "schools" are going to realise that rules are put in place for a reason, and that spending your life in the pursuit of having more money than Mrs Jones across the way, is not the way to go about things.

Thais are lazy? My girl works 10 hour days. Please don't generalize.

I do notice that the Chinese-Thai seem to do very well. My girlfriend works for one. All of her clients have Chinese decent.

[casualbiker]

And now I know that the minimum taxable monthly salary is 50,000 Baht. I'm paying tax monthly for so many years with my salary below the amount above. I need to call my agency!

There is no minimum wage for teachers. We come under the schools act.

[leggo]

Whilst it is obvious that there is a percentage of schools who are deliberately avoiding the rules it should also be noted that the paper work required for work permits are ridiculously overcomplicated and time consuming. The Thai administration could quite easily cut it in half thus making it much easier for the schools to comply. And of course in the public sector you have to be tested for syphillis - obviously not a good disease to have but what bearing it has God knows -glad to say my wife past the test!!!

Basically the new governement needs to streamline the administration from top to bottom which will not only increase their chances of collecting more taxes but it would make life far more comfortable for it's employees and the people it serves.

Edited August 19, 2014 by leggo

[eeworldwide]

It's very simple, really.

As usual, it boils down to money.

Many Thai people are very lazy, but they LOVE money. They don't want to go through the hassle of registering people properly and applying for the work permits etc because it costs them money and time.

If you give a Thai person money, don't ever expect to get it back, if you have a problem with the service etc.

(That said - my biggest victory to date was when the local electricity authority bought me a brand new iMac for 60K, after blowing mine up on christmas day when they nearly destroyed my street by pulling down a pylon and ripping out all the electric and telephone cables. Granted, it did them 7 months to cough up - but with gentle patience and perseverance we got what we wanted.)

However - I digress. I really hope this crackdown continues, although one hates to see others put in a spot, but this is the only way that some of these "schools" are going to realise that rules are put in place for a reason, and that spending your life in the pursuit of having more money than Mrs Jones across the way, is not the way to go about things.

Thais are lazy? My girl works 10 hour days. Please don't generalize.

I do notice that the Chinese-Thai seem to do very well. My girlfriend works for one. All of her clients have Chinese decent.

Dear fellow, with all due respect - context is everything.

I didn't say ALL Thais are lazy - but in the CONTEXT of this subject - they ARE!!

I said MANY Thais are lazy = and we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought otherwise. I didn't include the rest of the world in this context = sure = I can be lazy too - we all can, but in the context of this subject - they clearly ARE!

[Time Traveller]

"..... spokesman for the Chonburi Department of Employment said that some foreigners seemed to think the issuing of work permits was as routine as giving a driving license, but this was far from being the case...."

--- the thai public servents always manage to turn it around to blame the foreigners don't they. Then they bitch and moan about foreign workers without work permits, then complain when foreigners starting new jobs question why they haven't issued the work permit yet. There is only one reason why work permits are not ready on the first day of work and that's because the people responsible for arranging it are inept.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Thighlander]

I was offered 230 thb per hour to teach SAT Math. I seriously doubt they would have gotten me the paperwork. No need to jeopardize a perfectly good O-A. Plenty of takers, though. It is necessary to eliminate the illegals. Unfortunately, it may have to get worse (for the students) before it gets better. I would not object to proving my health insurance at all, and I know a lot of the retirees lie through their teeth about the 65000 per month.....often more like 6500. So, yeah, immigration wonders why these people can't pay their medical bills. Selfish as can be. Some were likely in Pattaya bars for 10 years straight, without missing a night (or morning). If they had put aside 100 thb every time they went to a bar......and now carried a high deductible...they could practically pay their premiums with the interest. Health care is so much cheaper here than the US; yet many of the expats refuse to pay their fair share, but instead rely on "help me" pages on Facebook, when they do a drunken motorcycle crash.

Possibly because most private insurance here and abroad don't cover motorcycle accidents and when they do it's only 60-80% of what's charged .. OK if they take you to a government hospital NOT so if they take you to a private hospital!

But I do GET where your coming from.

"most"......so it seems like it might be wise to find one that is not in the "most" category.

[misterme]

"The minimum, taxable monthly salary for most nationalities is 50,000 baht." What about changing these silly draconian laws, and actually adapt the tax to the real salary, and not on one based on race or nationality.

Time to wake up and step in to the 21st century. Give residency and work permit to those married to a Thai national, ease up burocracy for work permits....wishful thinking probably.

Thai laws are made on another planet far from reality, no wonder so many break the law.

So if 50,000 THB monthly is required salary for a work permit, then how do those from the Philippines get work permits when they are paid

half what a native speaker would be earning. I thought for some reason it was 60,000 THB per month but that may have changed.

Because, as usual, the article/post if full of misinformation.

50,000 THB is not required for a work permit. For most occupations, for citizens of most countries, 50K IS required for a 1 year extension after the visa/entry stamp is about to expire.

For teachers, there is no minimum salary for a 1 year visa extension. They are free to hire teachers from the Philippines, or anywhere else for that matter. The school only has to pay the tax on the actual salary.

[senoremac]

The writer of this article seriously needs to get their facts straight. Uniformed second hand assumptions don't count as facts and qualified teachers can easily obtain work permits.Being a member of a band or diving does not count as a teaching qualification in Thailand or any other country for that fact. Would the author of this ridiculous post feel the same if backpacking tourists were employed to teach the youth of their own country as a past-time to support their extended vacations?

[dao16]

Ok, just going to say...I am on my 3rd work permit and it has never taken longer than just over 24 hours. The first one was offered to me in 30 minutes (it was a matter of the proper personnel being in at the time I stopped by the office). So, no, it doesn't take long at all.

The documents....they are just the normal documents that license a business and certify a candidate. These organizations are being liberal with how they do their own paperwork and don't want to reveal that. Or, as many said, they don't even want to declare the taxes (more likely the case--big boys on top of the school have to eat!).

I am talking about schools. I realize that other industries could be different, but it would seem that if you are a certified SCUBA certificate provider (for example) with all your papers in place, getting a work permit for a certified instructor with all his or her paperwork in place wouldn't be much more difficult.

Either way, don't let this person saying it is some insanely difficult process for schools convince you. It isn't (and I know of many others who have had the same experience). Look at where the incentive$ are.

(EDIT)--In fact, just as my response was uploading, it occurred to me that the Ministry of Labor has been one of the easiest an most straightforward places in bureaucracy to work with in the years I have been here.

Edited August 19, 2014 by dao16

[connda]

"Employers, such as language schools, say the documentation and costs are very high."
Excuses. Cry me a river.

A permit, issued by the Ministry of Labour, can take up to three months to issue and the employer becomes responsible for paying income tax on the salary.

Which means the employer can't pocket it. Now this is closer to the truth.

I'd really like to see all employers to be subject to the just as severe consequences for not obtaining a WP for their employee as the employee is subject to for not having one.

How about for both the employer and employee:

Fine up to 500K baht

Jail time up to 1 year

Edited August 19, 2014 by connda

[balo]

This is wrong . 50k is not required. I know many Filipinos that works as teachers in Bangkok with WP and the average monthly salary is around 20000 baht . Maybe this means that all farang teachers have to go elsewhere and Thailand will only use Filipinos , and non native English teachers from Asia.

Edited August 19, 2014 by balo

[retarius]

Thailand has enough poor Thai people why should they make it easy for poor English speakers from other countries to come here. Thailand needs tourists and residents with money in their pockets not a bunch of lowlifes who are broke and whose only qualification is the accident of their birth in an English speaking country. Let's get people who stimulate the economy, not people who are parasites on it.

[ericthai]

Good because these <deleted> language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

there are people in the USA that dont even make that much!

[ericthai]

Whilst it is obvious that there is a percentage of schools who are deliberately avoiding the rules it should also be noted that the paper work required for work permits are ridiculously overcomplicated and time consuming. The Thai administration could quite easily cut it in half thus making it much easier for the schools to comply. And of course in the public sector you have to be tested for syphillis - obviously not a good disease to have but what bearing it has God knows -glad to say my wife past the test!!!

Basically the new governement needs to streamline the administration from top to bottom which will not only increase their chances of collecting more taxes but it would make life far more comfortable for it's employees and the people it serves.

Have you ever pulled together all the paper work yourself and applied for a work permit and non-imm B? I dont believe you have your would be saying this. You are repeating what schools tell you. It does not take that long nor is it complicated. My staff can pull everything together within 1 hour.

For the Non-B visa your company needs to provide that following:

Company documents

1 Company’s registration documents in Thailand

2. List of shareholders

3 Business registration and business license (including capital)

4 Company profile

5 Details of business operation

6 List of foreign worker stating names, nationalities and positions

7 Map indicating the location of the company

8 Balance sheet, statement of Income Tax(Por Ngor Dor 50) and Business Tax ( Por Por 30) of the latest year

9 Alien income tax return (Por Ngor Dor 91)

10 Valued added Tax registration (Por Por 20), etc

Some embassies and consultants dont even require all of this. For the work permit you need to provide proof of your Education Certificate (your Degree + Transcripts); A Photo and a Medical Certificate saying you are in good health, list your blood type

(this is new) and dont have syphilis (this has been required since 2007)

So not so hard. My staff does this for me every year with no problems.

Edited August 19, 2014 by ericthai

[charmonman]

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"The minimum, taxable monthly salary for most nationalities is 50,000 baht." What about changing these silly draconian laws, and actually adapt the tax to the real salary, and not on one based on race or nationality.

Time to wake up and step in to the 21st century. Give residency and work permit to those married to a Thai national, ease up burocracy for work permits....wishful thinking probably.

Thai laws are made on another planet far from reality, no wonder so many break the law.

So if 50,000 THB monthly is required salary for a work permit, then how do those from the Philippines get work permits when they are paid

half what a native speaker would be earning. I thought for some reason it was 60,000 THB per month but that may have changed.

I don't think a native Thai speaker would be earning more than any other teacher in a school in the west teaching Thai, not sure why

the native speakers here expect so much more, twice or three times what the Thai or other teachers make.

what is it that makes English so special that foreign English teachers get paid so much more?

If you want to live in Thailand, then accept whatever it is that they pay everybody else. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you're living here because of the money, if you don't like the pay then you can move. If you're living here because you really like

Thailand, then the money shouldn't really matter.

But they should make it easier for all to work and pay tax and let people work for whoever wishes to hire them, just like the Thai enjoy when

they go to countries in the west. How about a green card and a visa that says you can stay because you are not a burden to society?

I think you need some clarification of some issues.

It is the Thai government that sets the rules. The minimum salary to qualify for a work permit is laid out by them, not the demands of the different nationalities. I believe the minimum for Americans, Canadians, Japanese, and some European nationalities it is 60,000, for many European nationalities and some of the richer Asian nationalities it is 50,000. For Philippinos, it is 40,000 (or less). If the shady school refuses to pay a Canadian 60,000 baht per month then they cannot get that Canadian a work permit. This is not the fault of the Canadian. It is the fault of the outdated Thai regulation, and of the school. On the other hand, a native Thai speaking teacher of the Thai language in Canada would not doubt be paid a fair (minimum) wage and would be provided with a legal work permits. Whats all this about geese and ganders?

As for your other points, the demand for Thai teachers in the west is much smaller than for English teachers in Thailand. What makes English so special? Surely you are aware that English is (aside from Mandarin) the most widely spoken language in the world and is the accepted language of business, etcetera, etcetera.. and that Thai is primarily useful only in Thailand (and maybe Laos)?

[Maroon Watcher]

Great idea in fang principle.

But what about the hard work?

and the paper work (having to be legal)

and the (maybe lose face if things go wrong) or Thai rules are changed locally...

Short term trembles

Oh and the "we can't pay them" so we need to get more Ingrit - Thai teachers instead...

... Fool circle

Awful. Why is it so difficult to get a working visa in Thailand? Thailand needs to follow in South Koreas footsteps. All of the paperwork is done while the prospective teacher is in his/her home country. Before I taught in SK I needed my bachelors degree notarized and apostilled. The same with my FBI check. Included was my sealed transcript. Once done I sent the items to my recruiter who then secured my working visa for the year. The process took 3 months mainly because of the FBI check.

Why can't Thailand implement something similar?

[Phuketboy]

I have a bachelor of education and had 7 years of teaching experience before leaving the profession to go back into business. I'm now running both a company here and a company in Australia plus studying for my MBA. There is no way in hell I would ever work for less than 120,000 per month. That is a starting wage for most graduates in other countries and certainly anyone mid career should be asking much more than this. People don't get higher education to earn less than retail assistants in their own country, so I can't understand why people settle for crap money here? The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

[BKKSnowBird]

I have a bachelor of education and had 7 years of teaching experience before leaving the profession to go back into business. I'm now running both a company here and a company in Australia plus studying for my MBA. There is no way in hell I would ever work for less than 120,000 per month. That is a starting wage for most graduates in other countries and certainly anyone mid career should be asking much more than this. People don't get higher education to earn less than retail assistants in their own country, so I can't understand why people settle for crap money here? The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

You are not the person these language schools are looking for. There are many people in Thailand that lack even a simple degree and will do anything to stay. That is who they want.

[isawasnake]

And to think they all might have to go legit to stay in operation. And the rich Thai men cry out.... "the horror, the horror".

[BKKSnowBird]

So true. I worked for one of these big language schools a few years back before moving on to bigger and better things.

When me sent in our timesheets we also needed to fill in if we needed to do a visa run so they could plan for it.

I had a visa and WP but most didn't. They also took tax out of my pay and then called me in January to come sign some papers. Aparently they only paid our tax once a year.

Never again.

Edited August 19, 2014 by BKKSnowBird

[ross163103]

Not sure why this should be an issue for legitimate language schools, as they're supposed to be teaching languages........surely they're not just set up for visa purposes?

[BKKSnowBird]

Not sure why this should be an issue for legitimate language schools, as they're supposed to be teaching languages........surely they're not just set up for visa purposes?

Because these language schools farm 100s of teachers out to real schools. They do not want the government knowing how much they make. They need teachers who will work ilegally and that is why they are now having problems.